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Author Topic: Science  (Read 7404 times)

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Re: Science
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2015, 12:17:42 am »

The NAZIs knew about them.

Notes on Hermann Oberth

Space pioneer Hermann Oberth, was considered by many to be the most famous mentor of the late Dr. Wernher von Braun, the first director of the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama.
"On the German side, I have to mention before all Professor Hermann Oberth who offered the world new basic concepts in the field of rocket technology," Von Braun wrote in 1959.

Oberth was born in Hermannstadt, Transylvania, the son of Dr. Julius Oberth, a physician. He attended schools at Schaessburg, Transylvania, until he was ready to enter the University of Munchen in 1913. He later became a professor of mathematics and physics.

In the spring of 1930, a young Wernher von Braun enrolled at the Berlin Institute of Technology and in his spare time assisted Oberth in his early experiments in testing a liquid-fueled rocket stage with about 15 pounds of thrust.
In September 1930, Oberth returned to a teaching post in Romania while von Braun continued experiments under the sponsorship of the German Society for Space Travel.

Fast Forward to Peenemuende:

Oberth rejoined Von Braun and his team of scientists working on rockets at Peenemuende during World War II.

There is evidence he was NOT just researching rocket propulsion in Germany with Von Braun and the other German scientists at Peenemuende. That evidence consists of patents for rather circular looking flying machines by German Corporations. BMW was one of those corporations. They probably didn't work too well.

Sure, the NAZIs experimented with all kinds of stuff that didn't work. In NAZI Germany, just like here  >:(, there was always money for new and improved war machines.  :( But that's not the point. The point is that they HAD PHOTOGRAPHS of flying disks and took seriously the eye witness accounts to such a degree that they DID try to duplicate the soundless, rapid movement this way and that, propulsion technology of these machines obviously not produced by human technology.

After the war, his research continued, and for a time he was engaged in rocket research for the Italian navy.

In 1955, he was invited to rejoin the rocket team. This time, Oberth came to Huntsville where he pursued rocket studies in the Technical Feasibility Studies Office of the U. S. Army Ordnance Missile Laboratories. In 1956, he transferred to the Army Ballistic Missile Agency as chief of Special Fields in the Research Projects Office. He resigned from U. S. government service in November 1958 and returned to Germany.

Von Braun later claimed that Oberth's book, "A Rocket to the Interplanetary Space," which was published in 1923, gave "proof that it was possible to travel to other planets by means of liquid propellant rockets."

Quite a bit happened after 1923 to expand Oberth's knowledge about HOW we could get there from here. Since the above quote is from NASA, it's just like them to pretend rocket propulsion was/is IT for Oberth, Von Braun and the USA.  Oberth AND Von Braun were keenely aware of the (not very successful - they did lose the war, after all) attempts to produce an electro-gravitic propulsion flying disk in Germany during WWII and in the USA (perhaps a tad more successful  ;D) after 1947. More on that after the rest of Oberth's distinguished biography.

Oberth, who visited the Marshall Center as recently as 1985, is also remembered by others in Huntsville. Bill Snoddy, now retired from the Marshall Center, went to work for the Army in Huntsville in 1958. Snoddy recalls that crowded conditions meant that many new employees ended up with their desks in the hallway of Bldg. 4484. "My desk was outside Professor Oberth's office," Snoddy said. "I was new and was only around him for a few months before he went back to Germany. But I remember that he was a very quiet person. He was very humble."

Snoddy also remembers seeing the many charts and exotic    illustrations in Oberth's office: "He was a visionary. Like Von Braun, he could communicate his ideas in drawings and writings." Recalling Oberth's close association with Von Braun, Snoddy said, "If Von Braun can be considered the father of the space age, then Oberth must be the grandfather."

Hermann Oberth died Dec. 29, 1989, in a hospital in Nuremberg, West Germany

First, let us return to the claim I made that bothered Ashvin, perhaps because it was so broad brushed and evidence free. That is, I said, in regard to ETs, that they are a space faring civilization(s), they are here, they are visiting, they are messing with everybody's nukes and they have technology far beyond human technology.

People that read my stuff know that, although I am not as fastidiously methodical as Ashvin is, I do not lie. So what? The fact that I don't set about to tell a tall tale does not mean I know what I'm talking about, does it? Of course. Integrity is not evidence of veracity; it merely means that I believe my account. Belief and evidence are two different things.

The evidence of what we see, hear and touch influences what we conclude about reality. We believe this or that is real when enough evidence warrants it. I believe the ET phenomenon warrants our acceptance that it is real. I do not share Ashvin's concern about people going all in to the 'ET masters of the universe/saviors' worship just because the OTHERS are smarter and more advanced technologically than we are. I never have worshipped ETs and I never will. But if some Homo SAPs can worship Elvis or some Wall Street Big Shot, I guess some poor saps would start building ET churches (even more than the whackos do now! ) if they had a saucer parked next to all the shopping centers with free electro-gravitic massages for all comers. I can see it now, "Come get your 'religious experience' at the ET Masters Church TODAY!".  :P  ;D

Reality is what it is. Just because a space faring civilization is more advanced technologically than we are does not mean I need to bow down and worship them. But given the Darwinian world view that the 'apex predator', 'winner of the big brain competition', 'highest technology bad ass is RIGHT because  he has the MIGHT', I can understand Ashvin's concern. ALL of us have been brainwashed with that predatory pap since we were children.   

I have posted, in this forum, my eye witness account of light balls, larger than a man, car length or so away from me, popping into existence, floating by in a parking lot on the night of April 9, 1990. After popping out of sight, I saw them streaking silently through the night sky a few miles away (there was cloud backdrop - I have EXTENSIVE training and experience in measuring distances from clouds of moving aircraft and their velocity). I saw two of them in the sky. They moved at well over a thousand miles per hour silently. One of them did a hairpin turn that is quite impossible for an aircraft (OR a missile, by the way). They went back to the backlit cumulonimbus bubbling cloud, which lost its light and stopped it's bubbling. End of eye witness account.

Eddie thinks it was some high tech defense department stuff. But the fact that the huge UFO flap, with military evidence of radar, photographs and fighter interceptor chases was going on at exactly the same time halfway around the world (something I did not learn of for almost a decade!), convinced me that I wasn't hallucinating (no I wasn't 'on something' or drinking. LOL!) or that it was human technology. No I saw no flying disks or little green men. So? The subject is NON-HUMAN high tech and ETs,. The flying disks are a subset of that subject.

But let's assume that my experience does not provide any evidence for my claim the ET's are here and doing all kinds of things that we cannot stop them from doing.

Back in the early 1970s I read "The Interrupted Journey" about Barney and Betty Hill's account of an ET encounter. Weird stuff. I filed it away.

As an enroute air traffic controller in the 1970s, I would occasionally track on radar, during the midnight shifts, what we called "fast movers". We had broadband radar (no relation to broadband internet!). Broadband radar is non-digitized raw radar. It's low tech but tracks absolutely anything that moves, unlike the digitized radar we got in the late 1970s (and have had ever since). Unlike digitized radar, which is computer algorithm massaged by velocity to decide whether it is eligible for display (too slow, don't show - too fast must be false target - do not output to display - programmer inserts parameters - I did that when I was in programming later on), broadband shows everything.

A fast mover was distinguished by the trace. On raw radar, a target paints like a splotch. The antenna (ENROUTE radar - tower radars turn faster) rotates 360 degrees in about 58 seconds and paints it again in a different position. We radar controllers would figure how fast it was going from the distance between the two splotches. I trained for three years to learn how to interpret Radio Amplitude Detection and Ranging so spare me the hairsplitting. I'm giving you an abbreviated version, okay?

The fast movers were assumed by all brother controllers to be A) Secret US military aircraft (USA! USA!) or B) ET UFOs. We all knew about project Blue Book and the massive amount of baloney foisted on the public. We all had secret clearances. The gooberment was unconcerned about what we agreed to among ourselves because it was illegal for us to talk to the public about what we saw on radar or from control towers either.

We were reminded of that in a friendly fashion once a year in security briefings. I am not being sarcastic. UFOs were NEVER mentioned officially in security briefings by the stupidvisor crew chiefs (unofficially, they knew the score and said so - most of them were ex-USAF air traffic controllers...). We were obedient apparatchiks, as Surly has reminded me from time to time.   ;D

This WORLD that I lived in is strange to Ashvin and many others. They do not understand how people can be knowledgeable about the UFO reality and keep it a secret. Therefore Ashvin assumes we lack the evidence. No, we just liked keeping our jobs and staying out of jail (see CFS).  8)

We would NOT try to gather physical evidence for the same reason. But we talked. And we were honest with each other. I have said before and I'll say it again. People from a military background are not given to mendacity and tall tales, period. And wishful thinking and hallucination is not what hard boiled, nuts and bolts, do the math, USAF and civilian air traffic controllers that have many lives in their hands are about either.

Which brings me to Richard Diedrik (not totally sure of the spelling - feel free to use that as 'evidence' that my hearsay account doesn't amount to a hill of beans.   ;) Logical people will know better. ). Nicknamed "Dick", he got promoted to the enroute air traffic control training department staff where I worked in 1977.  I had been there a year and was the lead training instructor.

Dick was a former USAF tower controller. He was a chubby, affable fellow. He had been stationed at an Air Force Base somewhere in the Southwestern U.S. in the 1960s. We hit it off and I invited him over for dinner and drinks.
At my home, we talked about the fast movers, what the USAF might have and what those fast movers might be. We covered a lot of territory including military maneuver areas civilians know nothing about, blocked airspace where 'things' move (radar returns that ARE NOT false targets) when nothing is supposed to be there and more. I brought up Barney and Betty Hill.

Then he told me of his experience.  He was working the midnight shift in the tower cab on a USAF base in the late 1960s with another airman (enlisted rank). All military bases have a 24/7 OIC (officer in charge)  that mans a desk somewhere on base (not the atc tower). Whoever has the OIC shift wears an OIC band on his arm over his uniform (I saw my dad wear it from time to time).

Dick explained that they had some land marks (nearby water tower, some mountains, etc.) that they knew the exact distance to and height of. They used these landmarks to estimate the distance and altitude of visually sighted aircraft. This enabled them to call the sequence for inbound aircraft and tell the pilots who they had to follow and the outbound traffic to avoid as well.

Dick also explained that they had a tool that they held up to a visually sighted aircraft to estimate the size of the aircraft and the possible identity of the type of aircraft. The biggest one then was the B-52. Once they had the distance and altitude estimated from the landmarks behind or just below the aircraft, they would dial that in on the tool to get a ball park idea of the aircraft type.

Dick sighted a luminous object (not lights outlining it in the dark). He estimated the distance and altitude from the airport. They had no traffic reported in the area. He attempted to establish radio contact. No joy. The other controller was sacked out. He woke him up to ensure he had another witness to this flying object because he had to file a report on any airbase incursions from unauthorized aircraft.

The thing grew in size, indicating that it was approaching the base. He used his tool on it when had a good estimate of the distance and altitude. It was too big to be a B-52. It was approaching the base. It would not respond to radio calls. They called the OIC who told them to monitor the movements of the aircraft and file a report.

The thing got within a few miles from the airport. It was not moving erratically or particularly quickly either. But it was moving at jet aircraft speed. This was no lighted blimp. It was not bobbing up and down either. But the tool, now that the distance and altitude estimate was much more precise, indicated its size (in profile) just below five B52s. The USAF did not have aircraft that big then or now.

It got within a mile and stopped at about 500 feet above the runway. Still no radio contact and no jet engine noise whatsoever (Yes, jet aircraft sound is not heard well in towers. They have excellent sound proofing. But the lower rumbling always comes through when jets are within a couple of miles - this thing made no noise at all). It was saucer shaped in it was one big forking saucer! They called the OIC again, who told them to continue observing the craft and that he was now on his way to the tower cab. No orders were given to scramble chase aircraft.

The UFO hovered for about 10 or 15 minutes. Dick thoroughly eyeballed it with binoculars, as did his fellow controller. He could not discern doors, markings, tail number or control surfaces. It was totally luminescent and it was not transparent. It appeared to be made of some metal. The color of the luminescent surface was like a dim light bulb (grayish glowing white). There was no doubt in the two controllers' minds that this thing was a physical object. Radar tracking was confirmed.

It began to move. Within seconds, it streaked towards the mountains (not straight up but at a slight angle), becoming too small in size to sight visually. The speed was well over two thousand miles an hour from a dead stop. Dick called a nearby USAF radar tracking facility and asked them if they were tracking a high speed object. They confirmed that they were in the last few minutes but they had nothing at the moment. Dick did not say word one about what he had seen. When you are being recorded, you say only what you must say, period.

The OIC arrived and was briefed by both controllers. He told them to remain in the lower tower cab offices after their shift and not to discuss this further with EACH OTHER or anyone else.

The rest of the shift was routine. They did as they were told.

After their shift MPs arrived and his fellow airman left with them. Then some security personnel in plain clothes told him he was not to mention this incident to anyone under threat of court martial. He of course agreed but asked what could be done about this giant flying saucer. He was told it was probably a hallucination. He said the other guy saw the same thing. They spent a couple of hours brow beating him about the possibility of disciplinary action, a transfer to bumfork Alaska (or worse) and so on. He got the message and signed whatever they placed before him. They left.

When he got back to the barracks, his fellow controller's room was vacant. He asked about him and was told he was given a "hardship transfer" to another air base.

Dick was never scheduled to work a midnight shift on that base again. He never saw another flying saucer.

It was almost two years later when Dick found out where his fellow controller had been transferred to by chance. He had, of course, not made any official inquiries. He looked the guy up and the guy did not want to say beans about any of their shared experiences "the night before" he transferred out.  The look of naked fear on his fellow controller's face was all Dick needed to see. Dick made some comment about being glad that the hardship transfer had worked out and they parted friends.

Dick told me he was sweating bullets for years about that event, not because of ET, but because of the tough customers in security that he knew could ruin his career, put him in jail on trumped up charges or make him disappear.

I was dumbfounded. So, the brass knew and we were supposed to pretend there was nothing to see, move along. Dick nodded. Now I knew what our government did with the pilot UFO reports we had to submit to the stupidvisor (AFTER Blue Book had been shut down). Now I knew why most controllers considered making those reports a waste of time. Now I knew why our canned phraseology "Do you wish to file an official report of sighting an Unidentified Flying Object?",  ;) whenever a pilot claimed to see strange 'things', was part of MESSAGE to airline pilots that the gooberment did not want to hear it AND that their airline WOULD hear it (consider them a bit flaky if they got a rep for reporting strange 'things').

We talked a little about the technology and why we don't have a cool flying saucer to go to work in. No need for runways but we would still have airports for customs and such (ATC job security was always considered!  ;D) If smugglers go a hold of one, they would have a field day!  Also, there were a definite advantages for air traffic control if we could order a craft to stop in midair; no more holding patterns and easy sequencing! And no more worries about one aircraft overtaking another.

After pondering the implications a while and the FACT that we didn't have flying saucer technology, I said that TPTB either couldn't duplicate it or were not interested in duplicating it in order to not rock the transportation industry boat, so to speak. Dick agreed that was part of it but believed it was more about the USAF not wanting to admit they could not do beans about where ET went and what ET did. We both agreed that it was a relief that ET did not want to waste us. 

We both agreed that major foot dragging by TPTB was not going to change any time soon and only ET would be able to force the issue if they wished to do so. Neither of us knew zip about what was going on at the nuke missile facilities from the 1960s on up when this conversation took place in 1977. 

Ashvin, Dick was telling the truth. It's hearsay. RIGHT! You don't have to believe it. RIGHT!

But I insist that you are avoiding reality by believing the "others" are not here. They are here. They have been around for God knows how long. And their technology is fantastic stuff! The Germans recognized that before WWII.

The following quotes are from Space Pioneer Dr. Hermann Oberth. They were obtained in 1972 in an interview for a book about suppressed inventions:

LESS THAN ten seconds of video of a Fast Mover at the World Trade Center  July 24, 2000 (screen shot from above) :o. A human being would be would be instantly killed from that type of acceleration. That is what Richard Diedrik witnessed one night working in a USAF base air traffic control tower. It's NOT one of ours. It belongs to the OTHERS.

I thought somebody was chasing it but it looks like it buzzed the chopper doing the filming and took a hairpin turn, leaving some condensation trail when it neared the ocean. You need to view the super short video about three times before you get the total picture of what the shocked guy was trying to film. If it was a fake, it was a good one!  ;D 

This video is a longer version of the short vimeo clip I made. This one has no sound. If you haven't heard the sound, please do so in the vimeo clip. I believe the behavior of the lady and her words gives authenticity to the video.

Watch carefully as SOMETHING flies slowly behind the second tower before nosing out on the other side. After it streaks off, you can see it again, unlike in the vimeo clip. You can also clearly see it come VERY close to the chopper before doing it's hairpin diving turn. ENJOY!


Ashvin, if you had been one of the twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ, your name would have been Thomas.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 02:03:00 am by AGelbert »
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23


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