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Author Topic: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences  (Read 6905 times)

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Agelbert's Aerobatic Adventure - In A NON-Aerobatic Aircraft :o  :P   

Once upon a time, I was young and a newly licensed Private Pilot. I had racked up about 53 hours of flying time, passed my 4 hour written test and my one hour flight test so I figured I had most of this flying stuff all figured out. I was now starting my commercail pilot training which required a total of 160 hours. A lot of this time was solo flying practicing advanced maneuvers such as chandelles, lazy eights, pivotal altitude hold while circling a ground reference point, several kinds of stalls, engine out procedures, emergency landing procedures and some extended cross country flights.

But most of that was in the future. I had already flown my mother as my mandatory first passenger now that I was a bona fide licensed pilot and could legally carry passengers (without charging for it, of course).

I modified the last part of the tail number on the cherokee 140 above. It's not the one I flew but is identical in appearance and paint job.

This bright sunny day I boarded Zero Nine Whisky (N--09W tail number) Cherokee 140 trainer aircraft to accumulate some flying time towards my minimum required for a commercial pilot license. Zero Nine Whiskey was my favorite of the aircraft. It had a pretty paint job and was the plane I had soloed in. It was an old friend to me by now. I didn't have any particular plan except to go out over the everglades practice area and repeat some of the maneuvers I already knew. 

Of course, being young, curious, over confident and foolish, I wanted to expand my knowledge of how the aircraft responded in somewhat, shall we say, higher pitch attitudes than the every day dull training fare.

If you have ever heard the expression, "pushing the envelope", let me tell you that it is originally and aviatior's expression stolen from us by you ground pounders to make your dull lives seem more exciting!

Yes, dear readers, Agelbert was fixin' to push the envelope.

The flight "envelope" is the airspeed range and pitch attitude (angle above or below the horizon) as well as bank angle range of the wings that the aircraft is designed to fly at. If you leave the envelope when you are in the air, you are entering the danger zone. WHY? Because the aircraft can suffer catastrophic structural damage, engine, failure or a combination thereof. If this happpens near the ground, you are done. If it happens 4 to 5 thousand feet up, you MIGHT be able to recover and live through it. You have a little more time but your survival usually depends more on luck than skill.

Recently licensed Private Pilots are not too long on skill...

I taxied out, took off and flew northwest about 10 miles to the practice area. This area over the Florida Everglades was (in 1966) in the middle of nowhere. There were a few roads near some farms that had boundaries by the glades but otherwise it was all swamp and you were alligator food if you went down there.

Cherokee in cruise flight at about 115 mph over Ohio, not the Everglades.

On the plus side for a designated practice area, it was flat, far away from people or cows (our flight school had been told to NOT allow the student pilots to practice low approaches to emergency landings near cows because it caused abortions), and arrival and departure aircraft traffic to Opa Locka or Miami International Airports. Besides, it was within radio range of several ATC towers so if you had an emergency, you could set 121.5 on your radio and call for help before you made a forced landing even if you were at a low altitude.

Out over the practice area at 2,000 feet, I practiced a few engine out procedures and checked the area for potential landing sites that I could reach with the power off. It didn't look all that great but I would pick a spot and pretend I had to put it down right there. At about 300 feet I would apply full power and climb away looking down at the spot to see what sort of a mess I would have made if I had actually landed there.

I then decided to try something new. I knew I might have some "difficulties" so I climbed to 5,000 feet (the recommended altitude for stall and spin practice). I may write about an exciting and humorous adventure with spins someday but that was still in the future for me then. For this adventure, I must explain to you what a "stall" is before I explain my imaginative variation of it.

An aircraft flies because a low pressure area forms over the upper surface of the wing in direct proportion to the velocity of said wing and the angle of the wing to the air movement (relative wind). The point is that the wings are sucked up and the aircraft flies. 

Straight and level flight (arrow) ----> produces enough lift to not go up or down. When you pull back on the control point the aircraft nose higher, you are increasing the pitch attitude. A Cherokee 140 normally flies at a pitch attitude of a few degrees (positive pitch).

A stall has nothing to do with the engine. A stall is what happens when the low pressure area over the wing surface gets disturbed (burble point) by too high a pitch attitude and the wings no longer produce lift. The maneuver is performed by gradually increasing the pitch attitude with a certain designated power on or power off condition (or something in between) until the nose shakes a little and noses down as the wings hit the burble point.

Stall recovery is performed by establishing a negative pitch (nose below normal glide pitch) to pick up flying speed while applying full power simultaneously. Panicky student pilots have a tendency to point the nose down steeply and upset their flight instructors. After some practice, students learn that the secret of stall recovery is just to put that nose down to a few degrees below glide pitch and, of course, keep the plane from banking with the rudder so you don't get into an inadvertent stall-spin.

The most challenging stall recovery is a power on stall because the nose is pitched about 40 degrees up (much higher than for a power off stall) and the burble point stall break is snappy. It's also harder to keep the plane straight to avoit a spin entry due to one wing stalling before the other.

Well, I knew all that. I had that down! Let us see, I said to myself, what happens when we REALLY pick up the nose with full power?   

I pushed the throttle all the way and pulled the nose as far back as I could about 60 degrees). The effect was a much more violent stall (imagine a bucking bronco) break and the plane trying to spin this way and that. But I recovered within a few hundred feet of altitude loss which was well within limits for a power on stall.

I thought about that for a while. I wanted a 90 degree pitch up nose position (straight up!) but, even with full power, I couldn't get there before the plane stalled. Bummer.
So, I applied full power again and lowered the nose to pick up maneuvering speed (129 mph designated aircraft speed where structural damage could not occur from control movements). ZOOM!

At 129 mph I gradually lifted the nose all the way to 90 degrees! Yippee! There I was, going straight up like a fighter pilot!

I then waited for the stall break and the nose to pitch forward. And I waited. And I waited. The airspeed went down past 60, which was no flaps stalling speed, and kept going down. Fifty, forty, THIRTY (WTF!), TWENTY!!! (I pulled the power off and tried to nose the aircraft over - no response - I was going too slow to ahve ANY EFFECT on the fight controls - I was basically a rock tossed in the air at this point approaching the peak of a ballistic trajectory), TEN, ZERO!

Now it gets really good. The cherokee 140 is a utility trainer aircraft. That means it is capable of withstanding 4.4  G forces plus and 2.2 G minus. Aerobatic aircraft can handle 6.6 both ways with out structural issues. I knew this. I knew I was not in a Citabria or Stearman that could do whip stalls and tail slides and hammer head stalls at air shows just for fun. Cherokees have a stabilator (instead of an elevator) on the tail that is quite easy to break. If that breaks, you are dead, period.

You DO NOT want to stress the stabilator, EVER.

I went weightless. My pilot briefcase began floating in the air next to me. The wind noise was picking up rapidly and the airspeed still read ZERO!

Panic time! I decided to release the controls because ANYTHING I did would translate BACKWARDS because the aircraft was "flying" backwards. I did NOT want to bust that stabilator. I wanted to get that nose DOWN somehow. As a kid I had thown gliders in the air and watched them tail slide and whip stall to a nose down pitch and recover. I was counting on that but my confidence level was measurable in fractions of an inch at the moment.

Hanging by my seatbelt, I experienced the most violent forward whip stall forward you can imagine. That is probably what save my life. Had the stabilator caused a BACKWARD whip stall, it would probably have broken off. Without the ability to control the pitch attitude, even with engine power, a small aircraft will nose hard into the ground destroying the airframe and killing the pilot.

I watched the blue sky instantly change to brown everglades. It was weird. The nose did not just go from straight up to straight down; it went from straight up to a pendulum movement. I still hadn't touched the controls. The airspeed had, of course, been increasing all along but it didn't show because aircraft measure airspeed with a pitot tube that faces the relative wind. Planes don't generally fly backwards. LOL!

The moment the plane whipped over to the glades facing pendulous rocking movement, the airspeed went from zero to ABOVE VNE (Never Exceed Velocity - about 160). The airspeed indicator was PEGGED!

That was another fright. I realized the flip had occurred above maneuvering speed and was sweating the possibility I had lost my stabilator.

I  reached for the controls and, ever so gradually, applied back pressure to get out of the dive without tearing the wings off. Also, if I pull back too hard and too quick, that was another chance to over stress the stabilator (if I still had one) that I didn't want to risk.

It worked. I hadn't lost my stabilator! Gravity returned and I got the airspeed back to 115 mph normal cruise. I had lost about 3,500 feet. I applied power.

Nothing. Engine failure. Argh.

I turned on the electric fuel pump (this aircraft has a manual fuel pump but uses the electric fuel pump to aid starting and engine restart in the air) and set 121.5 emergency frequency on my radio and looked for a place to put Zero Nine Whiskey down.

At 800 feet the best place looked like a dirt embankment in the Everglades. I began a final approach and had the mike in my hand to begin transmitting mayday when the engine sputtered on. Believe it or not, my greatest relief at the moment was not having to embarrass myself by radioing an emergency.

Such is the foolish pride of the young.

I hooked the mike back on to the panel and changed to tower frequency, radioed that I was inbound about 15 miles northwest and brought her home (without turning the electric fuel pump off until I was safely on the runway).

I taxied to the grass parking area at the fight school and shut own the aircraft.

Then I noticed something that needed to be taken care of. The cowling above the panel was full of dirt! The whip stall had been so violent that every speck of dirt on the floor had been thrown up and then forward and down onto the cowling as I applied gradual back pressure to pull the aircraft out of the dive. The floor looked like someone had done a great vacuuming job on it. LOL!

I called a line boy and said there was a lot of dirt on the cowling that should be cleaned up. He looked at it  and asked, How did that get there?". I said, "I don't know." and quickly walked into the office to sign out...".

NOTE: Zero Nine Whisky was NOT damaged. I flew over 50 hours in that aircraft subsequently along with hundreds of hours by other pilots and flight instructors.

I pre-flighted VERY closely the aircraft a day later and, had I seen the least bit of evidence of stabilator stress, would have reported it.

I know, I should have reported it anyway but I was foolishly and pridefully afraid to besmirch my pilot record because it would reduce my chances of getting hired by the airlines.

All I can say is the Piper Cherokee 140 is an excellent trainer aircraft.

So that is how a foolish young man happened to cheat death in 1966.

If you liked this true story by Agelbert, be nice and register. 

Agelbert giving his first lecture on Renewable Energy. 

Have a pleasant day.   ;D

Renewable Revolution


« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 05:14:52 pm by AGelbert »
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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MKing says about CH4
It is one of the more useful molecules out there in the long run,

Sure, from YOUR rather narrow definition of "useful" (It's a hydrocarbon!). 

But in the BIOSPHERE that we all depend on, THE most useful molecule in the hydrocarbon pantheon is this one:

Ethylene: The Ripening Hormone


Ethylene causes fruit to ripen and plants to die on schedule so they can  be recycled into the biosphere. In short it is key to the life cycle of all earthlings. Now THAT is REALLY useful! So you see, I DO recognize that there is ONE hydrocarbon that we really need AS LONG AS WE DON'T BURN IT!

C2H4 (Ethylene)

Some products produced by ethylene that fossil fuelers and other LIVING BEINGS NEED 

My favorite HYDROCARBON! 

What!? You mean to tell me Agelbert, the quixotic crusader against fossil fuel folly in all its poisonous and biosphere trashing forms has some hydrocarbon love?


Back when I was trying to get through pre-med in the daytime while I worked as a computer analyst in the FAA at night (I was promoted from air traffic control to Automation) I took Botany, one of many biology courses the curriculum required. 

Botany was a lot of fun. I learned how they keep grapes from having seeds in them (Gibberrelins) and all sorts of interesting facts about plant biochemistry. But the story of the orange grove fruit warehouses in Florida in the early 20th century was one I liked especially because it is a great example of the scientific method in action. Read on. 8)

The vast orange groves in Florida around 1910 had giant warehouses where picked fruit would be stored while they reached the proper stage of ripeness before shipping them to markets. The oranges are picked nearly full size and still green. They are tough at that stage and not easily bruised by the picking process.

The crop is stored in heated warehouses to finish the ripening process. The oranges, as they ripen, obtain their pretty orange color. The fruit expands somewhat and becomes more fragile but, since they already have them packed in bags or crates ready for shipping, they get to markets pretty well unscathed.

Well, around 1910, the orange growers were sold on electrification of their orange ripening warehouses. They had hitherto used kerosene heaters which sometimes caused a warehouse to burn down and they liked the idea of controlling the temperature within a few degrees to fine tune the ripening process. Boy, were they in for an unpleasant surprise!  :o

They spent small fortunes in electrifying the warehouses with lights and elecric space heaters. The picking season came and they happily picked the crop and stored it in the new and improved hot shot electric heater warehouses. They waited for the oranges to ripen, fill out and turn orange in color. And waited. And waited. Those silly, stubborn oranges refused to ripen! They stayed hard and green.   ???

A bright bulb among the growers, all of whom had ALWAYS believed (wrongly) that HEAT is what makes fruit ripen, stated that there must have been something besides heat in those old kerosene heaters that made the fruit ripen.

They got a team of scientists to do some experiments with green oranges with and without kerosene heaters at various temperatures and the oranges exposed to the kerosene heaters DID ripen as they always had before irrespective of temperature. Next they identified all the products of combustion of the long chained hydrocarbon called kerosene.

We all know when you burn (oxidize) a hydrocarbon, you get CO2 + H2O. But that is ONLY if you have COMPLETE combustion. A kerosene heater, as many family tragedies can attest to, puts out lots of INCOMPLETE combustion products like CO (carbon monoxide) that will kill you quickly and quietly.

But there is another product of incomplete combustion that burning kerosene puts out. It's called Ethylene. 

This tiny molecule is a miracle of plant biochemistry. The scientists determined that ethylene was making the oranges ripen! So the growers had to put the kerosene heaters back in.

Well, they got electric lights out of the deal and plant science took a giant step forward so everything worked out for the best. 

The obvious follow up question is, where does the ethylene, now defined as a plant ripening hormone, come from when the oranges ripen on the tree?  ???  From the orange as long as it is connected to the tree when it turns color. Henceforth, whether on the tree or off it, the orange itself keeps putting out ethylene until it rots in preparation for the orange seeds to grow.  Pretty neat, huh?  ;D

This was a revolutionary development in botany in general and fruit growing in particular. The study of plant hormones grew explosively from that point and many mysteries were (and still are being) solved about how these miraculous photosynthetic life forms function.

What is so amazing to me is that such a simple molecule can do so much. Have you ever put bananas on top of a bowl of fruit containing apples in the bottom? Sure, everyone has. Have you noticed how fast those bananas get overripe when they are on top of apples? YEP, ripe apples are one of the highest ethylene producers out there! :o Those bananas produce much less but when the added apple ethylene whacks them, here come the brown spots!  :P

Unless you are going to eat the above bananas TODAY, this is a No No! The bananas will ripen too fast!   ???  Set them a few feet away and they will keep longer.  ;)
So now you know that, if you have a well ventilated area and happen to have brought some green bananas from the store that you are worried about "going bad" before ripening or just refusing to turn yellow as sometimes happens, get a small hurricane kerosene lamp and put it in the vicinity of the bananas and I guarantee you they will ripen. You can impress your spouse with your botany smarts.  ;D

Behold, the humble ethylene molecule, my favorite hydrocaron.

Ethylene (IUPAC name: ethene) is a hydrocarbon with the formula C2H4 or H2C=CH2. It is a colorless flammable gas with a faint "sweet and musky" odor when pure.[3] It is the simplest alkene (a hydrocarbon with carbon-carbon double bonds), and the simplest unsaturated hydrocarbon after acetylene (C2H2).

Ethylene is widely used in chemical industry, and its worldwide production (over 109 million tonnes in 2006) exceeds that of any other organic compound.[4][5] Ethylene is also an important natural plant hormone, used in agriculture to force the ripening of fruits.[6]

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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If you think it all ends here, you will consider risking your life to save a stranger an irrational act, period.    

I was faced, one day at a beach family outing when I was 34 with 2 small children, with a life or death situation. My dentist brother in law, an expert swimmer and scuba diver, was drowning in a rip current and 14 ft high wave breakers.

It was afternoon and my sister had scolded her hubby because he was reading a book on dental practice instead of "playing with his children like my brothers do". John wasn't feeling too great that day but he responded to the henpecking by going in. I had noticed that the tide was going out and some rather large "lumps" on the water surface indicating rapid current (about 8 inches high in otherwise calm water in a tide pool) were visible and I said, "It looks kind of rough out there".
He said he could handle it and it would be okay. My sister just looked at me crossly. John went in and was playing with some kind of raft with his kids that would just reach the surf at the edge of the opening in the tide pool lagoon and swing back in.

I knew that dynamic was going to change and the outgoing tide would soon try to suck anyone near the reef opening at the edge of the tide pool lagoon (about 50 yards from shore) into the surf and rip tide. I told my wife to gather up the kids and keep them out of the water. I sat on the beach while John began to drown.

My 36 year old brother and Vietnam vet, who had supported John in this dangerous game when I appeared concerned, now froze on the shore with a worried look on his face. Somebody grabbed the small raft his 8 year old son was on and managed to get it to shore (it was some good samaritan with red hair in the water that we never did talk to later).

My brother, over his momentary paralysis and spurned to action, ran up to me and said we had to get John. He had a big of piece of driftwood for floatation. He rushed to the shore and waited for me as the seconds ticked by and John was floundering, unable to swim to shore.

I stood there a second and thought to myself, "You know, you are going to die out there." I answered my own thought , "If I stay here, I'll never be able to live with myself so God will have to decide if I make it through this or not". The fear was momentary and rational. I dispensed with it with a practice I had of sticking to my principles come hell or high water. It wasn't heroics, it was habit. And BABY, this was HIGH WATER!

My wife later said we looked like children in the waves because they were so big. So my brother and I hyperventilated for about 20 seconds to get some extra oxygen in our lungs and dove in. My bro lost the driftwood in the turbulent water (just as well - it could have bopped us on the head and killed us). We got to John lickity split. Getting to him was like being on a river in the right direction.

Of course when we got to him, we had to turn around and try to hold his head above water. The moment we reached him and I said, "We've got you, John", he gave up. His head went under and I was under too and watched bubbles coming out of his mouth and his body totally relaxed. We pulled him up only to be slammed by the most god-awful monstrous wave power I have ever experienced. My femur bones were being bent by the force of the turbulence!
My fear returned with some terror thrown in. We had to fight to get back up to the surface only to be slammed back down by a new breaker. All the while we were trying to swim to shore and getting weaker. After one particularly powerful wave, I looked at my brother and yelled, "We're going to DIE out here!". He yelled, "A man has to think of himself!".

Our only chance to make it to shore was to let John go. We did. I glimpsed him floating away underwater. That was the most heart tearing, sad and anguished moment of my life all wrapped up into one desperate attempt to survive with my principles intact.

We began swimming to shore with the waves still sending us down a couple of seconds after surfacing. The salt water mixing with my breathing felt like fire burning my throat trachea. The people on shore didn't get closer. I lost sight of my brother. I was yelling "Praise the Lord" even as I ran out of energy in those brief moments on the surface.

My brother, much stronger than me and an agnostic, was concentrating on getting back to shore by cursing the ocean, the waves , the current and whatever else he could think of to keep himself "mad enough" to keep fighting for his life (I learned this from him later as I could not hear him in the tumult at the time).

About 15 minutes into this ordeal, I lost all my energy. I couldn't speak and I couldn't swim. I would send the commands to my arms and legs and they just WOULD NOT MOVE! I was in very good shape at that time of my life and had no muscle cramps or anything like that. I sank into the depths.

I made myself a promise that, even though I was sure to drown, I would absolutely refuse to breathe until my autonomic response kicked in after losing consciousness; I wasn't going to DO that burning throat thing any longer (later on my doctor said that saved my life but I'm not so sure). I began "breathing" by pushing the air in my mouth into my lungs and back. I thought of my wife and kids and asked God to take care of them.

I was totally convinced I was a goner. For some reason, I stopped feeling that urgency to breathe. Perhaps it was something like the nitrogen narcosis that divers get but that only happens at depth with scuba gear. I think the Guy upstairs gave me a break here (You know, that sky God atheists don't believe in).   

I became quite relaxed, still unable to move and my surroundings got darker. I figure I was about 20 feet down when I felt some rocky bottom passing under my right toe. The force of the waves was slight here but my movement with the current was plainly felt. This woke me from my torpor.

I concentrated on my foot and tried with all my might to flex my foot and anchor my toe on the reef surface below. It worked and I cut my toe. This woke me up more. I still, believe it or not, did not need to breathe. I waited for the current to shift direction and slid along the bottom with the top of my right foot. When the current flipped again, I would anchor my toe on the reef. I did this 5 or six times. The only part of me that I tried to move was my right foot and toe. I still did not have the strength or muscle coordination to swim. It was getting shallower (warmer water) and my surroundings lighter.

All of a sudden the water got murkier and the bottom hard to hold because it was sandy instead of rocky and, like a submarine surfacing, my head popped out of the water.
Now a normal person takes a deep breath here, right? Not me. I was in terror of losing my grip on the bottom (it was sandy with no toe holds) so I plunged back under to "hold position" until the current shifted. I had glimpsed my sister yards away and I realized I was on the shore so I weakly and carefully stood up, breathed in deep and vomited my guts out.

I raised my head and stared into my sister's eyes. She looked at me and said, "You tried". John died that day. I ended up fishing my brother out as he was cursing his way in (We lay him on the beach and he was okay after about 20 minutes) and keeping John's teenage kid (he had two of his kids there that day) from drowning trying to fish his father's body out.

We got the body as it managed to float a ways away from the rip tide and bump up against the far end of the tidal pool reef. We did CPR to no avail; he had a pulse from my pushing on his sternum while my sister (a registered nurse) cleared the air passage and breathed into his lungs but we gave up when the ambulance got there about 20 minutes later; he was a solid blue color (John was very fair and redheaded). Not a good day.

The point of this experience I am relating is that we need to get our priorities straight in this country. WTF are we willing to die for? What are our principles? I know what mine are, who my boss is, and where I'm going when I leave this valley of tears. That guides me in my decision making.

As a pilot I learned that you HAVE TO think about trouble all the time, plan what you will do when or if it comes and PRACTICE it in your brain. Then relax and go on about your life. Otherwise you will learn by hard experience why a coward dies a thousand deaths. Be true to your principles and you will sleep better at night and be an asset to humanity and God.

My rant is for anyone here that hasn't thought this through like I KNOW Surly, Ashvin, RE, Eddie and probably Ka, among others, have. I'm in the moral imperative faith based Ashvin, Surly camp.

More Background:

I had events occur in my life that kept me alive miraculously when I should have gotten killed. I did not pray to avoid getting smacked by a car that ran a red light without lights on at night while my brother was saying "It's not going to get any greener" to me from the back seat of the car while I sat there like a bump on a log for NO ****ING REASON WHATSOEVER!

I didn't spend 10 to 15 minutes underwater refusing to breathe and come out of it because I'm superman; it just happened and I wrote about it in detail here some time ago. Sure, I was praising the Lord and thanking Him for "rescuing" me while I was drowning trying to fish my brother in law dentist (who drowned) from the surf but it was my foot moving me along the bottom for those 10 to 15 minutes or so that got me to the beach because I could barely move my arms and had to concentrate just to dig one toe into the rocky bottom. God made me work for that one!

While totaling a car, the seat belt caused my rib cage to rotate approximately 10 degrees or so I fully expected to die and had no desire whatsoever to stick around as I lay in a field gasping for air.

I did not pray or ask to be miraculously healed but nevertheless, AFTER the doctor at the ER had decided to do an exploratory on me to see how ****ed up I was inside, everything just POPPED into place X-ray room just before the body cavity/chest X-ray prior to the operation. The doctor cancelled the operation after seeing the x-ray. Apparently nothing was broken. You studied medicine (this comment was originally made to a doctor). How many times have you heard of rib cage rotation along the sternum that just pops back into position? How about the spleen? In violent car crashes it is almost always ruptured.

I lost consciousness gasping for air at the hospital with everything going round and round. When I woke up I was still gasping and being rolled into x-ray when all kinds of bubbling noises came from my chest.

I addressed God in my mind and said, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!? Something or someone said, also in my mind, I"M FIXING YOU. My reaction was of chagrin. I was convinced I was DONE here and now I had to live in this HELL HOLE some more.

Now you can call that a faith based miraculous healing if you want but if you do I will say that you are fooling yourself. The "power" of your mind in Faith isn't going to have you or anybody else walking on water anytime soon. All this stuff and nonsense about each one of us being a little god and able to do miracles just by tuning in to some zen power or mind focus is simply magical thinking. As to JC's quote about moving mountains, mustard seed and Faith. He was talking about rocket fuel for evangelizing (fishing humans), not habitually violating the laws of physics.

My belief in Christ is EVIDENCE based. RE thinks I fancy myself "privileged" to have these experiences. I consider myself incredibly stubborn; so much so that God decided that I am so dense that He had to show me some evidence before I would believe. He doesn't do that to most people because most people aren't that dense, period.

And no, I'm not going to detail all the weird and wonderful stuff I have witnessed to you because some reader here might think I'm inventing it just to prove some metaphysical bull**** I believe in. Sorry, I'm about as hard nosed about cause and effect as any other scientist out there.

I once put a guy in jail because I refused to back down on my court testimony after witnessing a car he lost control of drive over and kill a street vendor. Despite receiving death threats, I said, **** it, it's the right thing to do so I'M GOING TO DO IT. 

Everything I witnessed about God doing His thing here and there was rigorously questioned and fact checked moment by moment by me. I was NOT looking for anything but an excuse NOT to believe there is a supreme being that intercedes in the lives of people on this planet in a personal manner.

But the observed events and facts said otherwise. Sure, I have Faith NOW, but I didn't do anything to earn it. It really IS, as the bible says, a gift.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 08:09:58 pm by AGelbert »
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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There is a lot of strange stuff that goes on out there.  :o I will now relate quite a strange close encounter I had with light beings/creatures or whatever.

Here's the story of my experience April 9, 1990:

I was in a parking lot overlooking a city watching the moon rise at about 9:00 P.M. There were about 20 other people there listening to their radios and drinking beer. I wasn't drinking. I saw this weird cloud about 5 miles away boiling like a tornado cell. It seemed to  be backlit (not by moonlight) but there was no sound of thunder from cloud internal lightning. People started saying "look at that and ooooh and aaaah".

This went on for about 5 minutes and two lights shot out of the cloud at least 1,000 mph (I'm a pilot and atc at this time so I had a very good grasp of distances and speeds). One was red and one was blue. The red one headed north (I was facing east towards the cloud and the moon) and the blue one headed south for a mile or so and did a hair pin turn and caught up to the red one headed north. They grew brighter and whiter and disappeared. 

It all happened in less than a minute after they shot out of the cloud. I was smoking a cigarette and was amazed at this "whatever" display of acrobatics and speed.

I heard a muffled pop like when you pop a paper bag. I looked left and I saw the first light ball. Then POP, POP. Two more appeared out of nowhere right before my eyes (no doubt some kind of interdimensional movement similar to what you mentioned and what occurs constantly in the electron clouds around an atomic nucleus).

I just stared at these majestic looking things that reminded me of a Dandelion seed Ball with clear Lucite rods sticking out. They where white and translucent, not yellow as portrayed. The center was compact. They floated south a few feet from me rotating lightly (the lateral rods were near stationary while the most forward and rear rods appeared to roll clockwise through the air two feet or so from the asphalt (the rate of roll did not coincide to the asphalt below like tire movement does). The asphalt was lit up by these things as they passed by. It took no more than a couple of minutes. Think of a feather floating in a whisper of a breeze.

Then the lead one Popped and disappeared, followed in sequence by the other two. I caught a flash of light entering the cloud miles away and then the cloud stopped boiling and assumed a typical cloud appearance. I was sorry I hadn't tried to touch one.

I didn't know anyone there so I didn't talk to anyone but people appeared pretty dumbfounded. I left a few minutes later. I've never made heads or tails of this experience. If the balls ARE energy creatures, they must have had a good time but made no effort to communicate. If they are vehicles, whatever pilots them is no bigger than a rabbit. Whatever they are, I do not think they are from Earth. It appears that there are some ETs out there that aren't shaped like us and prefer the sea urchin star shape.  :icon_mrgreen:

What do you think I saw? Note. The moon didn't jump position. I lost no time.

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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True story.   8)

The above is NOT the experience related. I post it so you will get the picture of what a Huey Gunship in combat is like.

Spring 1967 12:15 to 12:20 A.m. (I looked at the car clock!):
I'm riding shotgun with my pal in his 1958 metallic blue Mercedes (in excellent condition with leather seats!). We are listening to the radio and smoking menthol tiparillos. It's a warm and pleasant night. We are at a stop light. The light turns green. He pulls out and crosses the intersection into our neighborhood. I was NOT thinking about my brother, Viet Nam or the war. I blurted out, "My brother just got shot. What time is it?". My friend asked me, "Is he dead?". I said, "no", as I looked at the car clock. There wasn't much else to say. I did realize it must have been day time in Viet Nam (it was an 11 hour time difference from where I was). 

So, I wrote it down and waited. I didn't say anything to my parents or anybody else in my family. I figured that tiparillo had some weird **** in or I was unconsciously just concerned for my brother and my brain "made something up". I certainly did believe that telepathy was possible but that was only the second time I had one of those flashes (the other one was from my old man several years prior and I did not link the two). Note: I was an atheist at the time.

Same moment in Viet Nam (I checked and confirmed this with my brother personally BEFORE telling him my experience!) It's mid day there (11:15 A.M.):
A Huey helicopter gun ship with my brother as crew chief riding on the left side machine gun mount area was flying low while another one was flying high above. The tactic was for the low flying chopper (it was their turn in the barrel that day  :P ) to sucker snipers into shooting at them so the high chopper can waste the sniper at the location of the weapon flash. It was a bright and hot day.

They were close to Bien Hoa Air Base where they were based. So far it had been a calm day...
My brother said he heard somebody say "move over" (when you are manning the machine gun on the left side, half your ass is in the breeze  ;D). He shifted his ass to the right and felt something hit him like a baseball bat on the left side of his ass (had he not shifted right, the round would have missed the pelvis and gone straight up into his abdominal cavity to his heart, probably killing him on the spot). The round lodged in his pelvis and **** it. He was thrown to the right yelling "TAKING FIRE!". They flew out of it and the high chopper "took care of business".

Flying back to base,  STILL with only a mildly sore ass, he asked who had radioed to "move over"? The other three crew members said the first they knew something was going on was when my brother yelled. "TAKING FIRE!". I learned all this many months later after my brother returned from Viet Nam.

For crew chiefs only! Crew chiefs were top rated mechanics so they had "access" to some "expensive" replaced parts. My brother had one of these Huey helicopter rotor chain bracelets.  ;D
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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Unlawful versus ILLEGAL   


That which is contrary to law. “Unlawful” and “illegal” are frequently used as synonymous terms, but, in the proper sense of the word, “unlawful,” as applied to promises, agreements, considerations, and the like, denotes that they are ineffectual in law because they involve acts which, although not illegal, i. e., positively forbidden, are disapproved of by the law, and are therefore not recognized as the ground of legal rights, either because they are immoral or because they are against public policy. It is on this ground that contracts in restraint of marriage or of trade are generally void. Sweet. And see Hagerman v. Buchanan, 45 N. J. Eq. 292, 17 Atl. 946, 14 Am. St Rep. 732; Tatum v. State, 66 Ala. 467; Johnson v. State, 66 Ohio St. 59. 63 N. E. 607. 61 L. R. A. 277, 90 Am. St. Rep. 564; Pinder v. State, 27 Fla. 370, 8 South. 837, 26 Am. St. Rep. 75; MacDaniel v. U. S


Agelbert RANT:Are you required to sign a ticket in order to avoid arrest? No.
Of course, signing the ticket is not an admission of guilt.

But YOU CANNOT be coerced under threat of arrest to sign the ****ing ticket! Don't SIGN ANYTHING you do NOT want to sign. And if the cop decides to arrest you, it is an ILLEGAL arrest and you will have grounds to sue the police department later on. Keep your cool with a criminal cop. They don't give a **** about the law and count on the corrupt, illegal and fascist "latitude" given them by our courts.

And by all means, go after that cop in letters to the newspapers and your town council to get him or her fired. Call the police and go, in a group of two or more and voice your complaint and ask for a copy of the record of conversation. Do it more than once. Become a pain in the ass without becoming violent and giving them an excuse to beat you about the head and shoulders.  ;D

Don't wait for them to come to you and apologize or investigate their own corruption. They won't. They are a gang. They are vindictive as hell. They will try to entrap you and they will follow you around in their patrol cars looking for anything to give you a  hard time with. They are MENS REA from the word go, especially when you are making them act lawfully. They HATE that.

They tried that with my wife. We went to the police station and offered to have them put a tracking device on our car so they would know where she was all the time.  ;D  They were not happy campers.  ;D They, of course, said they were NOT following my wife around. My wife disagreed, in her calm, deliberate "You are lying to me voice with times and dates". The chief said they were not "harassing" her and they were not discriminating against her and that patrols have the right, duty and obligation to follow anybody they wanted to follow at any time.  ;D  Right... I love the legal boilerplate bull**** dance that humans, police and lawyers pull out of their ass whenever they wish to dodge responsibility for prejudicial behavior, don't you?  ;)  ;D

The cop that was following her on the motor route is a woman. That SAME woman called for backup when an alarm went off at 3:40 A.M. one moring at an office I delivered papers to on my motor route EVERY DAY, seven days a week. I got out of the car, walked 5 or seven steps up a wheel chair ramp and dropped the paper by the door. I did that EVERY DAY. I heard no alarm. I never had.

Then the **** hit the fan. There I was, with a cop car facing me that had pulled up silently and shined its lights on me as I got in my car.  She was out of the car jabbering on some hand radio for BACK UP(!!!?).    So, I turned on the dome light, rolled done the window (it was below freezing outside). and put my hands on top of the steering wheel and said, "Can I help you, officer?". The visibly nervous woman cop approaches the vehicle and asked what I was doing there? I explained. She then got an embarrassed look on her face. I asked why the commotion? She said the police station had received a silent alarm. I explained that I did exactly what I did with the newspaper every morning. I did not touch or bang the storm door or open it to put the paper between it and the inner door (some customers requested that - not this one - and for the "math doer" la-la land logicians, spare the maladjusted movement sensor on the wheelchair ramp bull****  8)) Why would the alarm go off now? No answer. They left. I said good day and they did too.

SOMEBODY was setting me up. If you don't ACCEPT that, you are BRAIN DEAD.   

At any rate, in regard to the police stalking (when THEY do it, it's not called THAT, of course. LOL!) of my wife, they stopped following my wife after the visit(s) to the police station(s). (visibly - but we continue to be on their **** list for having the audacity to believe we have the same rights as anybody else around here - Oh yeah, I've got lots of PROOF. Don't expect me to take THAT to court! LOL!).

I repeat, they are MENS REA from the word go, especially when you are making them act lawfully. They HATE that. But we have to do that. Otherwise, the entire putrid inertia of police brutality and illegality will increase. Most lawyers will do NOTHING to stop this unless you pay them to. They are. more often than not, hair splitting, procrastinating, erring on the side of caution, enablers and accessories to the problem than a force for good.

If you doubt that, just study Germany's "justice" system as the Third Reich took hold and LEARN that the lawyers didn't do JACK **** to stop the abuse as it got more and more brutal. I saw a picture of a Jewish man carrying a placard in Germany BEFORE the NAZIs had started killing Jews that read "I will not go to court for grievances" (paraphrased and in German, of course) hoping to get some attention to the abuses in the court system (to no avail). The COURT system is where fascism gets it "legal" gangrenous foothold. That's not the place to get justice or some type of remedy for damages when fascism is taking hold. Here's a term that makes the crooked enablers of our "justice" system grab their wallets in panic!: EX CURIA.

Ex curia is the ONLY WAY we are going to stop this ****. Don't expect any lawyer or judge to agree with you. They HATE ex curia solutions because they undermine THEIR "authority" and gravy train. Why do you think the term "vigilante" justice has such a pejorative connotation? Vigilante activity, when it IS JUST, should be celebrated as ex curia justice, not condemned. The KKK is vigilante CRIMINALITY, not "justice". 

ex curia [eks kyoo r-ee-uh] Spell Syllables 
out of court; without litigation.   

Now for your enjoyment and edification, the Police from "Pennslavania"  ;D  provide some pointers on behavior during close encounters with cops.  

If You Are Stopped by the Police in Your Car
When the officer asks you to sign the ticket or warning notice, it is not an admission of guilt, you are simply acknowledging that you received it. If you refuse to sign, the officer will still issue the ticket but will mark it "Refused."

If The Police Come Knocking At Your Door


If the police knock at your door and ask to come into your home, you do not have to let them in unless they have a warrant that has been signed by a judge, or under emergency circumstances, the officer is in pursuit of a suspect.

Ask to see the warrant.
If it is an ARREST WARRANT, make sure that you look at the name on the warrant to be sure the police have the right person.

If it is a SEARCH WARRANT, make sure it is for your specific address and check to see what is listed on the warrant to be searched for in your home or location. The warrant gives the officer(s) the legal right to temporarily seize the listed property on the warrant.

The police may also search without a warrant whenever they have arrested a person. They may search his or her person and the immediate area where the arrest was made.

The police may also search after consent is given. If you object to their request to search, be sure to make it clear that you do not agree to any kind of search. They may also search when there is an emergency situation (for example, someone screaming for help inside your home) or when they are chasing you or someone else into your home (hot pursuit).

If the police do not have a warrant, you may, but do not have to let them in, UNLESS they demand to come in. Perhaps you can settle this matter at the door, if they do insist on coming in over your objections then:
Ask to see identification or a police badge.
Let them in only after they demand to come in.

If you object, then make sure you tell them that you DO NOT consent to any search.
Remember the badge numbers and the names of the officers. Write it all down. The officers usually have business cards, feel free to ask the officer(s) for one.

If You Are Stopped By The Police On The Street

"You have the right to remain silent; anything you say can and will be used against you in court; you have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before you answer any questions and to have a lawyer with you during questioning; if you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish."
The officer will ask you if you understand your rights, and are you willing to answer some questions, or make a statement. If you don't want to talk after you have been informed of your rights, then you DO NOT have to.

Agelbert NOTE: An UNLAWFUL law, no matter WHAT the Police are claiming below:

Things to Remember

Under Pennsylvania law, you may not use force to resist a legal or illegal   :o  >:(  arrest. Remember you have the right to contest the validity of your arrest later on in court.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 06:30:07 pm by AGelbert »
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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Our Court system is corrupt. They will be handmaidens for fascism, not a bulwark against it.

Always remember all those brilliant (no sarcasm here - they were considered the pinnacle of legal thinking and properly just constitutional law guardians) jurists and lawyers from 1930s Germany, THAT WERE STILL THERE in 1968, who peddled empty rhetoric for Hitler to survive, presented (at Nuremberg) an erudite "defense" of their prudent, measured, legal, analytical logic of doing the "best they could" under the duress of Hitler's dictates (they claimed they saved many lives - NOT) only to be told they were full of baseless rhetoric and perjurous mendacity after over a thousand witnesses told the REAL story. Nevertheless, most of them got off SCOTT FREE. They do take care their own, don't they.   ;D

They DON'T take care of we-the-people. They never will. Handmaidens of whoever is in power with empty, but high sounding rhetoric to accompany their claim to being defenders of justice. I wish it weren't so.

Discussing LAW with a lawyer is a waste of time; they are hopelessly locked in confirmation bias and defending their bread and butter with all their sophistic and erudite skills. It's not personal; it's just that they keep foremost in their keen minds the disbarring consequences of defending natural law over statist laws formulated for the coercion of the citizenry on behalf of the health of the state.

I have been to court Pro Se twice. I pounded the law, used state supreme court Stare Decisis (case law) precedent, rules of legal procedure and constitutional law as well as mortgage law and inheritance law (when needed) to back every  assertion on every motion, presented evidence of fraud, and pleaded with a judge to overturn a clearly illegal power of attorney, only to be ignored (because, of course, the judge could not counter my claims  ).

This is what they do when you pound the law and they don't want to follow it. They are watching VERY closely for you to make assertions not based on law (especially if you are a pro se messing with their private corporate club - At which point they lambast you with all sorts of legal terms for not knowing what you are talking about, demanding that you get a lawyer, or face contempt of court charges or be prevented from representing yourself henceforth - I studied all those games in advance so they were never able to have that "fun" with me. LOL!).

But they aren't done just because they can't throw you out of court for not knowing the law. Oh no! If, after the judge willfully (and "lawfully"  ) ignores your motions, you attempt to pressure the judge asking them to "reconsider" a court order or overturn (leave without effect) their sentence or ruling, they just say NO.

In our corrupt system, a judge does NOT have to justify s hit, regardless of what a lawyer will tell you. In order to get a judge to recuse themselves, GET THIS, THEY have to APPROVE the motion for recusal that you present! 

Talk about stacking the deck! And forget complaining about the judge to the court system unless you have a lot of money and patience. One judge I recently had the misfortune of dealing with was taken to the state supreme court for deliberately ignoring a state supreme court ruling on Dolo incidente (a bank offers financial products to a public entity, and hides the true costs of the product) in order to defend a crooked banking institution.

The state supreme court ruled it was an HONEST MISTAKE OF INTERPRETATION (bull****!) by said judge. Said judge, that had just thumbed her nose at the supreme court, was not penalized in any way, and was allowed to continue as a judge in good standing. 

Expect a lawyer (after a week on the clock charging per hour studying the court proceedings  ;D)  to say this is another ISOLATED INCIDENT and, overall, the system is just  dandy and JUST, and every case must be looked at separately, not as a "ridiculous, wild eyed, judgement" of the overall system by "imagining" a pattern of corruption where "there is none". RIGHT. 

Lawyers and judges have a REAL PROBLEM connecting dots. They are LOATHE to see a pattern that reveals the TRUTH about how corrupt and dysfunctional our court system is. They are the fish that swim in that water. They will never see anything wrong with the water, period. That's confirmation bias. Of course, they will argue day and night that they are there to preserve the integrity of that system and are vigilant of flaws and the system is "self correcting" for these "unfortunate isolated incidents" of corruption. That's just rhetoric. 

The system now dances to the tune played by, mostly the large corporate institutions in general and the banks in particular. All these so called LEGAL, LAWFUL LAWS can be traced to profit through some form of violation over the natural laws of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The latest twist, a very embarrassing one for the judge I mentioned above , that shows CLEARLY the puppet threads from the bank to the judge (in my quixotic legal effort) is hilarious if it wasn't so tragically unjust.

I filed a motion requesting a third party lawsuit. I was asked to reveal the grounds for inclusion (even though I had JUST DONE THAT in the motion) of said third party (my dad's second wife who was now legally an heir due to the death of my father).

I gave the grounds, I cited the law, I gave precedents, etc. I alleged she MUST be part of the bank's list of party sued or the lawsuit the bank presented is invalid. I cautioned the judge against ruling for the bank because this set up a very bad precedent allowing blood heirs to ignore a widow from a second marriage in foreclosure sale proceeds. I even was so bold as to claim the constitutionality of that ruling could be questioned and the foreclosure sale ruled invalid along with (I slipped this in at the last ) the judge appearing as the handmaiden of the bank and thereby undermining the TRUST of the people in our court system (a cause for recusal - I never did waste my time attempting to get that judge's recusal - they are mostly ALL banking puppets).

I was ignored. The "honorable" judge, after (LOL!) stating there was "no controversy" in the lawsuit, hands down the sentence in favor of the bank. I call up the widow and tell her if she thinks she can play this game and run to the foreclosure auction and snap up the property, she's got another thing coming. I told her this was a setup from the word go and admitted I had gone to bat for her to defend my interests, not just hers. I yelled this at her: She had never defended justice or my inheritance. She had sided with my family and they were going to shaft her. Have a nice day.

Well the widow, firmly holding her wallet in panic, raced to the bank with her copy of the last will and testament of my old man. The bank filed a motion to "leave the sentence without effect" and amended the lawsuit to include the widow. I had filed multiple motions asking, FOR MONTHS, that all that be done and MUST ?BE DONE according to the LAW! In exactly two days, the judge rescinded her sentence, accepted the amended lawsuit, AND issued a sentence ruling in favor of the NEW and IMPROVED amended lawsuit.

What an embarrassment for that judge to behave like such a lackey! I have a count of over 16 judges that have perused that case since I began being a pain in the legal ass in February. I'm sure the ****tail parties are no fun for that judge right now.  8)

There were a few, brave, principled jurists in Germany that were NOT Jewish who were willing to stand on principle. There are a few in the USA today.

They will be silenced by their peers and the state. The only solution to tyranny is an EX CURIA solution.

Hebrews 11: 39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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 "Violent reactionary resistance" puts you squarely in Brandon Smith territory, which is, as John Lennon once famously observed, exactly where the state wants you because then it knows how to deal with you, and batshit crazy as a bonus.

Far better for the citizens to withdraw their consent  by means of public assembly, acts of group noncompliance, boycotts, demonstrations, etc. Far more effective, but much harder to do.  As we've already seen, as the hirelings of TPTB rollout their hospitality for nonviolent protesters.

The problem of course is that TPTB have no issue with responding to Non-Violent protest with Violence.

You also are fully aware of Agents Provacateur, and obviously Pepper Spray is only a tiny part of the arsenal of Violence brought by the State on Peaceful Protesters.  You got your Water Cannon, your Rubber Bullets and your LRAD too!

Obviously, confronted with this, followed by shipping off numerous people to the largest Prison System the World has ever known, the folks protesting don't always stay calm and peaceful.

In the Warsaw Ghetto, with the exception of a few resistance episodes, the Jews resisted peacefully.  It did not do them much good.

Who made it through the Holocaust?  The RESISTANCE FIGHTERS! The BIELSKIS!!

The Bielski partisans were an organization of Jewish partisans who rescued Jews from extermination and fought against the Nazi German occupiers and their collaborators in the vicinity of Nowogródek (Navahrudak) and Lida in German-occupied Poland (now western Belarus). They are named after the Bielskis, a family of Polish Jews who led the organization.

Under their protection, 1,236 Jews survived the war, making it one of many remarkable rescue missions in the Holocaust.[1] The group spent more than two years living in the forests and was initially organised by members of the Bielski family.

Jewish Partisans

Some Jews who managed to escape from ghettos and camps formed their own fighting units. These fighters, or partisans, were concentrated in densely wooded areas. A large group of partisans in occupied Soviet territory hid in a forest near the Lithuanian capital of Vilna. They were able to derail hundreds of trains and kill over 3,000 German soldiers.

Life as a partisan in the forest was difficult. People had to move from place to place to avoid discovery, raid farmers' food supplies to eat, and try to survive the winter in flimsy shelters built from logs and branches. In some places, partisans received assistance from local villagers, but more often they could not count on help, partly because of widespread antisemitism, partly because of people's fears of being severely punished for helping. The partisans lived in constant danger of local informers revealing their whereabouts to the Germans.

Many Jews participated in the partisan units formed in France and Italy to help regular Allied forces defeat German forces. They forged documents and identity cards, printed anti-Nazi leaflets, and assassinated collaborators.

Twenty-three-year-old Hannah Senesh, a Hungarian Jew who emigrated to Palestine in 1939, was one of the thirty-two Palestinian parachutists the British dropped behind German lines to organize resistance and rescue efforts. Before crossing the border in Hungary on June 7, 1944, to warn Hungarian Jews about the extermination camps, Senesh, a poet, handed a poem to one of her companions. It ended with these lines: "Blessed is the heart with strength to stop its beating for honor's sake. Blessed is the match consumed in kindling flame." Senesh was captured the next day and executed as a traitor to Hungary.
Key Dates

JULY 20, 1941
On July 20, 1941, the Germans order the establishment of a ghetto in Minsk. Within days of the ghetto's establishment, thousands of Jews are killed. Jews in the ghetto form an underground resistance network in August 1941. Members of the underground set up a printing press and newspaper to distribute information to the ghetto population. The underground also contacts partisan units outside the ghetto to find hiding places for Jews in the ghetto. In March 1942, the Germans carry out an action in the Minsk ghetto in which thousands are killed. Shortly thereafter, members of the underground begin leaving the ghetto for the forests where they form partisan units and fight the Germans. The partisans in the forests work to rescue Jews from the ghetto and bring them to the forests, where they establish partisan bases. Approximately 10,000 Jews flee the Minsk ghetto for the forests by 1944. Many lose their lives in the attempt.

The Jewish Army (Armee Juive; AJ), is established by Zionist youth groups in Toulouse, France. The AJ operates throughout France, but is particularly active in the southern regions. Members are recruited from both Jewish and non-Jewish youth and resistance groups and are trained in military and sabotage activities. AJ members smuggle money out of Switzerland to France to distribute to Jewish relief agencies. This money helps thousands of Jews in hiding. The AJ assassinates some of those who cooperate with the Germans and smuggles about 500 Jews and non-Jews across the border into neutral Spain. In 1943 and 1944, the AJ establishes close ties with Allied forces--including General Charles de Gaulle's Free French of the Interior (FFI) forces. In 1944, during the liberation of France, the AJ participates in uprisings in Paris, Lyon, and Toulouse against the German occupation.

JANUARY 21, 1942
After reports of mass killings of Jews at Ponary, outside Vilna, members of Zionist youth movements establish the United Partisan Organization (Fareynegte Partizaner Organizatsye, FPO) in the Vilna ghetto. The organization prepares to resist the Germans in the event that the ghetto is threatened with destruction and establishes contact with other ghettos to acquire weapons and encourage resistance. In early September 1943, the Germans deporting Jews from the ghetto and are confronted with resistance by FPO members. The FPO decides to abandon the ghetto and flee to the nearby forests to fight the Germans from the outside. The last group of resistance fighters escapes the final destruction of the ghetto on September 23, 1943. They leave the ghetto through the sewers and join partisans in the Rudninkai and Naroch forests.

AG, I was reviewing some state and local election info today and when I read the candidate statement below, it made me think about your courtroom endeavors...it sure would have been nice if you had been in front of a judge that had the "David and Goliath" mentality that this guy claims to have.

I'm a political nobody. I am a small town defense lawyer in rural northeast North Carolina. Professionally, I help those accused of crimes, as described in the Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

I have no strong ties to any party, power or influence. I have not taken a dime from any interested party, person or group, and I do not plan to. I will fund my own campaign. Judicial independence becomes suspect when money is exchanged.

I am asking for support in the form of votes so that I can head to Raleigh to fulfill the remaining term of retired Chief Judge John Martin on the NC Court of Appeals. The only promise that I am making is that I will do my best in writing opinions by applying the law as it is written. I believe both David and Goliath walk into a courtroom on equal footing and they should be treated as equals in the eyes of the law.

Nice historical posts. I'll repost that on my forum.

I hear ya. Go some pages back on this thread and you will see that I stated I would not argue LAW with a LAWYER because, regardless of the fact that some lawyers such as Ashvin are highly ethical and principled Christians, over all, that profession and most of those who make their living from it, have historically been the handmaiden of governmental abuses, not a bulwark against them. There is a built in, and profound, conflict of interest inherent in any member of an organization that licenses its individuals to practice. I am, at this moment, researching the incredible acquiescence of the Court System in the USA to all the blatant and unconstitutional LEGAL and LAWFUL LEGISLATED attacks on personal freedoms hitherto guaranteed by the Bill of Rights (for white land owners only at first - but you get the idea  ;)).

It is NOT hyperbole to claim that, especially post 911, FASCSIM has made giant strides in the USA and the Court System is AIDING in the implementation of routine violation of our Constitution. That is what I am researching and I will post on it when I get some more info. My experience with law and the study of it is not limited to my pro se "fun". As a young pilot, I formed a union. The boss had me fired under false pretenses. I went to the department of labor and filed a complaint. Arbitration took place. I proved I was fired without cause. All well and good. In that state, the LAW says you CAN fire an employee without cause but you must pay him a month's severance pay. The boss was ordered by the government to pay me a month's pay. He filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy (he was NOT actually bankrupt - he kept running that air taxi for YEARS on Chapter 11    ).

Due to "technicalities" of the LAW, he therefore did not have to pay me that month's pay. Lots of details about how to "connect" with the Court assigned "trustee" that then decides how to, and in what order to, pay the creditors. Corruption from the word go! Nuttin' you can do about it. Tough ****, pal. UNLESS, as RE stated, you have the money to fight a long court battle. As GO said, 'all's well that "ends" well' is fine and dandy for some people but it leaves a lot of road kill.

The law profession will claim that our Court System, however flawed is the ONLY alternative to JUST change besides violence. RE disagrees and so do I. This is a scare tactic/argument from adverse consequences/fallacious debating technique evidencing a lack of objectivity and an obvious conflict of interest. Rather than argue the merits of non-violent ex curia solutions pro and con, to perform a knee jerk sniff at ex curia solutions (NON VIOLENT ex curia ONLY IS ALL I ADVOCATE!) is par for the course for lawyers. Why?
I posted a picture of a fat kitty and full bowl of food. That cat has a "conflict of interest" over access to that food bowl. He is honest about it. You will get swatted (if you are NOT he who fills that bowl  ;)) if you mess with that bowl. Mr. Kitty has his NAME on the bowl where his "income" is found.  Whether he is full or not, Mr. Kitty simply cannot be objective about who gets to eat at that food bowl, period.

Are we communicating?

I will NOT argue Medicine with a Veterinarian when I am convinced they are wrong as I later confirmed when a Vet wanted to put Nino on a low protein diet. It would have been a waste of time. I saved a bundle of money and extended the life of an obligate carnivore. I never went back to that Vet, of course.

I will NOT argue Law with a Lawyer, either. See above.

Professionals have a tendency to argue from authority. They have the credentials so they can. But when they are wrong, their pride gets in the way and they will argue until the cows come home. And for those who make their living through words and documents filled with arguments and counter arguments, you are just providing entertainment for them. They ENJOY debating. They know ALL the tricks. From the moment you open your mouth, it's game, set, match for them. I prefer to be entertainment for a kitty or my wife.   ;D

Are we communicating?

Not yet? Here, read this hypothetical exchange between an Aborigine in Australia and a law firm:

Aborigine Bob Weatherall protested in London against the Museum of Natural History's decision to test indigenous bones.
Australia calls for German museums to give back human bones

Whoopie! Great Grandma is doing her part for SCIENCE!

Agelbert NOTE: If you are an Aborigine, FORGET damages awards of portions of the estates from, or RETROACTIVE MURDER CHARGES AND posthumous trials for, all these serial murderers.  ???

Lawyers will calmly state that the murder wasn't murder when it was committed because it was, uhm, LEGAL and LAWFUL then.  ;D Water under bridge, old boy. But our law firm will be happy to sue a British, German or American Museum (Hello, Smithsonian! ;D) to get the bones of your great grand pappy for a reasonable fee. No, we can't get them to stop displaying the bones for science until we win the lawsuit. No, sorry, we can't get all the pictures taken of your deceased relatives in the museum files collected and given to you. Science must, after all, be considered. Just consider that your relatives "donated" their bodies to science like people do today when they sign that part of their driver's license. Remember, our legal system is JUST! Trust us. We are lawyers. We know the LAW and we are the ONLY defense you have and bulwark you can rely on to protect you from injustice, abusive government and anarchy! 

Would you like to engage our firm to get justice for you and your family from this heinous act done to your relatives? I would be incensed if this outrage had been perpetrated on my ancestors! Justice must be done! 

Excuse me? 
No, we are unable to take the case on contingency or pro bono. Sorry.  Now, if you will excuse me, I have an appointment with a paying client. Best of luck to you, and God Bless you.

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 04:08 PM PDT.

30 Years Ago Today: The Day the Middle Class Died

Michael Moore

From time to time, someone under 30 will ask me, "When did this all begin, America's downward slide?" They say they've heard of a time when working people could raise a family and send the kids to college on just one parent's income (and that college in states like California and New York was almost free). That anyone who wanted a decent paying job could get one. That people only worked five days a week, eight hours a day, got the whole weekend off and had a paid vacation every summer. That many jobs were union jobs, from baggers at the grocery store to the guy painting your house, and this meant that no matter how "lowly" your job was you had guarantees of a pension, occasional raises, health insurance and someone to stick up for you if you were unfairly treated.

 Young people have heard of this mythical time -- but it was no myth, it was real. And when they ask, "When did this all end?", I say, "It ended on this day: August 5th, 1981."

 Beginning on this date, 30 years ago, Big Business and the Right Wing decided to "go for it" -- to see if they could actually destroy the middle class so that they could become richer themselves.

 And they've succeeded.

On August 5, 1981, President Ronald Reagan fired every member of the air traffic controllers union (PATCO) who'd defied his order to return to work and declared their union illegal. They had been on strike for just two days.

 It was a bold and brash move. No one had ever tried it. What made it even bolder was that PATCO was one of only three unions that had endorsed Reagan for president! It sent a shock wave through workers across the country. If he would do this to the people who were with him, what would he do to us?

Full article at link:

Agelbert NOTE: The Strike was on August 3, 1981. Reagan gave them two days to get their asses back to work. Three air traffic controller guys at Syracuse did. The rest did not. At Syracuse TRACON (Tower/Radar Approach Control) we had a Tower chief and an assistant chief, a secretary, four staff (two data systems specialists - I was one of them) and two training instructors. We had 4 or five supervisors and about 20 air traffic controllers. Ninety percent left.

Those of us who stayed had to "get current" if we weren't working airplanes at that time. I did , along with the rest of the staff. We worked ten hour days, six days a week for a month and then ten hour days, 5 days a week for about two years. One guy who left couldn't take the pressure of leaving. He died of a heart attack at a mere 35 years of age leaving a wife and three children. He was a good man. He just couldn't say no to the coercion of the union.

The union had the brass to come to the tower to collect "blood money" donations from those of us who hadn't struck as if it was OUR fault and not theirs. So it goes. I was in the union, but I told Jeff Hall, the union rep, that I had signed a document when I hired on agreeing not to strike so that was that. He was not pleased.

Of course, I am certain he had absolutely nuttin' and nada to do with it but somehow some sand managed to get in my gasoline tank. Just a coincidence of course. I took my F150 super cab ford pickup to Courtesy Ford. They overhauled the engine for around $1,200.00 but 'forgot' to save an oil sample despite my specific request to do so (their mechanics were unionized and supported PATCO, but I'm certain there was no connection to that 'lapse of memory' that enabled my home owners insurance rep to give me the, sorry, no evidence of vandalism here. Have a nice day.

I said, but look, I got these piston sleeves from the mechanic that did the overhaul. LOOK at the scoring! I waved them at him. Sorry, only the oil sample is "acceptable" evidence.  ;D I wanted to throw them at him but I resisted the temptation to engage in a stupid bit of force that would not do my soul or my body (jail for sure!) any good. Of course I cancelled my homeowners on the spot. Don't get me started on the LAWS that allow Insurance companies to engage in highway robbery on a daily basis. 

Where was I? Oh yes, all that overtime was useful in paying Courtesy (PRO-UNION) Ford for the overhaul. After about 5 months, I fainted on position (clearance delivery) shortly after a conversation with a fine fellow air traffic controller member of the John Birch Society discussing, quite politely, of course, his views on minorities multiplying like rats and ruining the country.

You get a bit tired of that **** after a while. I had two kids (at least I THOUGHT they were mine) and promptly got a vasectomy. I had told this guy that. I was a dumb **** Republican then. But it DID NOT MATTER to this guy. I was one of THEM. 

I guess the work and stress (It gets old to drive by a bunch of fine fellows looking at you with daggers in their eyes  :P) got to me that day. These were people, some of which went to the same church as I did. So much for their Catholic faith.  :(

Anyway, I was taken to a doctor who prescribed some inderol (relaxes smooth muscle on blood vessel walls so your blood pressure cannot get too high BUT it HAS potential negative effects for your heart in the future - don't try to prove THAT in a court room. LOL!) and promised to DO ME THE BIG FAVOR of not putting it on my record so I would still be able to work airplanes. He was actually SCREWING me (and doing the Tower Chief a big favor by keeping a much needed warm body working airplanes come hell or high water  ;D) because a job related medical condition is a HUGE difference in pay between a non-job related (As in, no evidence of a medical condition, my good minority man, sorry. - That was ten years later when I was retired at 26% non-job related disability ;) instead of 75% because THAT IS THE LAW. My disability was job "aggravated" but not job "related". Ah, the pliability of the English language when TPTB want to DANCE away from acting responsibly.

Of course, there is NO PATTERN here. Just because it happened to little old me, doses not mean this is SYSTEMIC in our bureaucracy. Oh, no, not at all.  ;D

What I'm saying is that the deliberate demands of our rules, regulations and LAWS are set up so you need to have a cast iron paper trail or a lot of money when ever you want to get any sort of workmen's comp. All the tools to help the average Joe on the job have been steadily ERODED by legalese, fine print and boilerplate over the years.

It's all about promising you the moon and then not delivering it with some slight of hand which is all quite legal and clever. This has gotten worse and worse as the decades go by. As RE has said, our system is for the well to do, period. The rest of us are commodities without rights.

I survived, just barely. And I was one of the less than 10% of the 16,000 to 18,000 that STAYED and kept the air traffic control system functioning for the 3 to 4 years it took to train and season new air traffic controllers. No good deed goes unpunished and all that.      I pity the poor people working airplanes now. It's probably even more dog eat dog than it was then. 

Have a nice day.

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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Of course, the above is not to imply that I wish to limit your voice in any way, shape or spindulated manner.  Your contributions to this forum are much appreciated. I simply wish to let you know that, well, you get the idea.   ;D  Carry on.   

My name is Fazio. Yes, that's Sicilian. :exp-grin: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh:

From the moment you open your mouth, it's game, set, match for them. I prefer to be entertainment for a kitty or my wife.   ;D
Excuse me?
No, we are unable to take the case on contingency or pro bono. Sorry.  Now, if you will excuse me, I have an appointment with a paying client. Best of luck to you, and God Bless you.   :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh:



       Agelbert you hot ticket you, I am crying tears and roaring with laughter.                               

How dare you hide these talents as a master comedian from the Diner forum for so long?

Please Agelbert, drop the duckweed and renewables for a week or so and continue upon this side splitting path, I beg you.

Masterful works AG, sheer MASTERPIECES.

Lighten up Ashvin, we all know your one of the good guys; let's face it, AG is one funny bastard, and on quite a roll with this one.    :exp-cheesy: :exp-grin: :laugh: :laugh:

When an Aborigine meets a Lawyer.  :laugh: :laugh: ;D ;D    [smg id=2684 type=full align=center caption=""]


Glad to be of service.   

I can not only do comedy, I can also do a bit of low grade poetry: 
In days of old, when I was bold
And my prostate was not inflated
I taught them flight, got them over their fright
and damaged airplanes were prevented

Now for some serious Law stuff here!  Ahem! My vast and thorough perusal of jurisprudence (and juris-imprudence too;D) has uncovered these gems from a former Supreme Court Justice with a love of Sherlock Holmes novels and an encyclopedic knowledge of the law, why there is law, what it is supposed to do, what it isn't supposed to do and, more importantly, what it REALLY IS ALL ABOUT.   8)

“Every society rests on the death of men,” he liked to say. If a nation needs soldiers, it seizes young men and marches them off to war at the point of a bayonet. If an epidemic breaks out, it forces the public to get vaccinated.

He said THIS, which sounds quite good as a defense of the Court system.  ;)

The language of judicial decision is mainly the language of logic. And the logical method and form flatter that longing for certainty and for repose which is in every human mind. But certainty generally is illusion, and repose is not the destiny of man.

As a  lawyer, I can CLEARLY see he used that word "language" twice. Notice he DID NOT say that ALL judicial decisions are BASED on LOGIC, although one COULD interpret that quote in said legalese fashion.

But other famous quotes from him show that he knew the score and wanted us to know it as well.  8)

Law is not being based on logic, but on experience.

Most of the things we do, we do for no better reason than that our fathers have done them or our neighbors do them, and the same is true of a larger part than what we suspect of what we think.

A man is usually more careful of his money than of his principles.

Young man, the secret of my success is that an early age I discovered that I was not God.

Certitude is not the test of certainty. We have been cocksure of many things that were not so.

Any two philosophers can tell each other all they know in two hours.

Don't be 'consistent,' but be simply true.

Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at the touch, nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening.

Every event that a man would master must be mounted on the run, and no man ever caught the reins of a thought except as it galloped past him.

Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its original dimensions.

Beware how you take away hope from any human being.

The only prize much cared for by the powerful is power.

He knew government is a compromise where the citizenry gets certain benefits but the lion's share of those "benefits" will always be controlled by an elite establishment. I think he just didn't want the elite establishment to become a dictatorship. But, considering the goons that populated the high court then, he was a breath of fresh air; a very BRIEF breath of fresh air in our descent into empire and fascism.  :(

Please excuse this blatant and coarse attempt by yours truly to use the old  appeal to authority fallacious debating trick to sound erudite, polished, knowledgeable of law (and so on,  etc.  ;D). I protest any accusation of low class buffoonery! I never met Oliver Wendell Holmes and never argued a case before him! So there! If he happens to be on the same page as I am on issues of LAW and juris-imprudence, good for him! ( and me  ;D - Any port in the storm and all that. ) ;D
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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I learned a neat trick while I was having pro se fun with civil court judges. When you file a motion, NEVER ask for more than one thing. There "keen" legal minds have difficulty concentrating on more than one item at a time.  ;D

 Not really!  :(  They get it just fine.  ;) They just use multiple points of law on ONE motion to IGNORE the ones they don't wish to "discuss", shall we say. It's an old trick. It worked for a while and then bank lawyer decided to play fast and loose with the one of two Court orders I got the judge to generate (to get the bank to take a firm legal - i.e. illegal  ;)- position of debt solidarity involving multiple signatures on a note so I could stop their claim to conditio iuris basis in law for the lawsuit).

After the ten days to answer went by and the bank lawyer was still sitting on her hands fishing for a summary judgement, I  tried to get the judge to slap a contempt charge on the bank lawyer by being VERY specific about times and dates with the old ONE motion per charge trick. Knowing she couldn't dance around it, the bank lawyer whipped off a motion claiming she HAD answered the Court order in a timely fashion. The judge accepted it.  :emthdown:

But get this, the Court Order she had answered was ANOTHER Court order issued six days before that and the judge TOTALLY played dumb, stupid and ignorant. She is nothing of the kind. She is just a dancing POS in a corrupt court system that will ignore whatever they want to ignore, no matter how well you present your case. The amended bank lawsuit rubber stamped by the judge was the sloppiest piece of **** I have ever seen with duplicated text and several nunc pro tunc (typographical mistakes that can, and do, get ignored UNLESS you are pro se, of course  ;)).

But, all in all, it was quite educational, enlightening, revealing (and so on. etc. ;D) of the amazing amount of pretzel logic, rampant, socially  corrosive bank ass kissing that goes on in our dysfunctional court system. It has enabled me to, shall we say, have a better grasp of our suicidal trajectory. Unfortunately (depending upon your point of view  ;)), it is having a deleterious effect on my ignorance of the LAW.  ;D

Uhm,, I think I have a graphic that explains the Court System at present. It is, after all, the result of a long, long, long tradition of coercive power granted for our good, peace, civilization, equitable (see definition of "legal" LOL!) society (and so on)  of course.  Gott mit uns!  ;D


GO, this one is for you!   

SEE BELOW: TRUTH that provides EVIDENCE supporting your charge that the Courts ARE NOT stopping the LAWLESSNESS of COP BEHAVIOR:    ).

 Despite court rulings, people are still getting arrested for recording on-duty cops
By Radley Balko May 13, 2014    

The Associated Press reports that police in Chicopee, Mass., have arrested and charged a woman for allegedly recording her arrest with her cellphone surreptitiously.  :emthdown: :(

When you see one of these stories, please remember that it is perfectly legal to record on-duty police in every state in the country.  ;D That includes states that require all parties to a conversation to consent in order for that conversation to be recorded. Those laws all also contain a provision that the non-consenting party has a reasonable expectation of privacy. So far, every court to rule on this issue has found that on-duty cops in public spaces have no expectation of privacy and that recording them is protected by the First Amendment.   (The U.S. Supreme Court has yet to weigh in on the matter.  ;)) In nearly all cases, the charges are eventually dismissed. (The exception may be if you’re arrested under some broad, catch-all law such as “interfering with a police officer” or disorderly conduct.  ;) But even those charges don’t usually stick.)

But Massachusetts is the one state where the right is still just a little bit ambiguous.  At one time, some of the state’s courts did allow for citizens to be arrested for recording cops under the state’s wiretapping law (which, again, required all parties to consent before a conversation could be recorded). Illinois also once had an even more onerous law, but it was struck down by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit in 2012 on First Amendment grounds.

In 2011, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit issued a similar decision. The court allowed Simon Glik’s lawsuit against the police officers who arrested him for recording them to go forward, again finding a First Amendment right to record on-duty law enforcement. But in that case, Glik was recording the officers openly. The court’s ruling applied only to that case, leaving open the possibility that someone could still be arrested for making a surreptitious recording of an on-duty cop.   And that’s what happened in this latest case.  ;D

If this case gets to the First Circuit, I suspect this charge will also be thrown out. It’s notable that the Glik decision didn’t even deal with whether there is a legal right to record police in Massachusetts. It dealt with whether cops who illegally arrest someone for recording them should be protected by qualified immunity. In order to get into court against a police officer, you have to demonstrate not only that the officer violated your constitutional rights, but also that the rights violated were well established at the time. (Perversely, this provides a financial incentive for police organizations to keep cops in the dark about the latest court decisions with respect to constitutional rights.)

So while the First Circuit ruling in Glik didn’t apply to surreptitious recording of police officers, it did find that not only is the right to record on-duty police permitted, it’s a well-established right that police should be aware of by now, and that if they violate that right, they can be sued for doing so. It seems unlikely that the same court will then turn around and uphold a separate arrest simply because the woman didn’t tell the police she was recording them.

If I lived in Chicopee, however, I’d wonder why this woman was charged for allegedly recording her arrest in the first place.  :icon_scratch:   Prosecutors have lots of discretion about when to charge someone and about what charges to bring. They are under no obligation to charge every person who breaks every law — it would be impossible for them to do so. And there’s certainly no obligation to latch on to the narrowness of a court decision that otherwise indicated a First Amendment right to record police as an opportunity to charge someone for doing just that, simply because she might fall slightly outside the scope of that particular ruling. Just because the courts haven’t yet ruled that police and prosecutors can’t do something doesn’t mean it’s something they should do. 

So if I lived in Chicopee, I’d want to know why Hampden County District Attorney Mark G. Mastroianni charged this woman. Does he believe it should be illegal to record the police? And if so, why?

Radley Balko blogs about criminal justice, the drug war and civil liberties for The Washington Post. He is the author of the book "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces."


Agelbert Note:
So now the cops invent OTHER charges to get an EXCUSE to confiscate your video.  :  Do you see how this works? I do.     The cops will continue to HARASS people because, regardless of the Court decisions, if a JUDGE does not FORCE the DAs to read the riot act to all the COPS, they will continue to do this **** BECAUSE THEY CAN.  :emthdown: Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.    The Court System is USELESS as **** on a boar hog!

Don't believe anybody that claims there is no alternative UNLESS they agree to discuss the MERITS of present fascist LAWLESS (but legal  ;)) LAWS and proposed replacements to our Court System in a clam and respectful, rather than a disdainful and dismissive manner. To claim no alternative has merit when they refuse to discuss the merits of the present system as opposed to a replacement is circular logic of the most entertaining table pounding sort. But it don't make a lick of sense.  :icon_sunny:

police state definition. A nation whose rulers maintain order and obedience by the threat of police  ;D or military force; one with a brutal, arbitrary government. The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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Wisdom in jest   
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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Santa came a day late to my home!
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2014, 10:52:04 pm »
I am filing a formal protest!   

I realize Santa DID bring me an excellent gift  :emthup: :emthup: :emthup: :icon_sunny: but really, this is most irregular.

I think I'm going to have to have a talk with Fazio, He has used his knowledge of my love of felines to play a practical joke on me with Santa's cooperation. And the NAMES (Mouser, Pouncer, Bounder, Scratchem, FastPaw, LitterKing and NightEyes)   Santa gave to these "reindeer" are humiliating and anti-union. 
Santa gave me a rather threadbare excuse for this "experiment". I am not amused! 

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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So yeah, Ashvin, prison conversion for humanity beats the hell out of dying wallowing in pleasure while pursuing a dynasty of material wealth for your family, as is the case among 99% of the well-to-do now.  Three cheers for scaring the SELFISHNESS out of humanity (even if it's temporary    ).

I have no problem prison conversions. It seems to me that faith is strongest when it's tested. Tim Keller has a saying - 'faith is tested by how we react to two opposite things, prosperity and adversity'. Or as Augustine said much earlier, "Lord, whether prosperity smile or adversity frown, let your praise be ever in my mouth". The strongest conversions then would be people who turn to God when they are doing really well or when they are doing really poorly.

The problem is when we move from the individual scale to large groups of people who are convinced that world-ending changes are imminent. The parallel would be when large amounts of people are convinced that their surroundings will steadily become better over time. I think both evoke a sort of societal immobilization, crippling people from embracing any genuine transformation or self-sacrifice. Of course there are exceptions, but generally it seems the NTE crowd and Cornucopians are playing two sides of the same materialist coin.

P.S. To address your earlier question, I think the world would be a better place if more people did what I do. More accurately, I think it would be better if more people DIDN'T do what I don't do. Or even more accurately, if they thought the way I (and many others here) do. But it would still be far from perfect.

Well said. A plethora of wise sayings and proverbs over the ages supports the view that fair weather folks mostly don't hold to their principles when the weather turns sour, so to speak. Actions are the only real measure of a person's character.

But I was mostly referring to the types who totally eschew morality as a guiding principle. Good times always reinforces their world view and bad times is the only thing that will possibly undermine it. During a bad period, they hunt for a chump to take the rap, so to speak, so they don't have to face the music.

If it is established that EVERYBODY has to face that "music", then the morality challenged folks will have no legacy, no offspring to leave a dynasty to, be faced with the reality of, not just dying, but no memory of their existence and sense of privileged existence that they pride themselves in having "earned".

These types have no faith to test. When they have ZERO evidence of GAIN from their "physical cause and effect is IT" world view, the possibility of them thinking outside their materialistic "box" exists. That possibility does not exist any other way.

Those wealthy people that have seen through the emptiness of the materialistic world view,  like Augustine, are such an extreme minority (99.999th percentile or less) that they simply cannot be considered representative of normal human psychology. J.C. wasn't kidding when he mentioned that eye of a needle and a camel.

My deceased brother-in-law was one of those. He was QUITE wealthy. We were discussing spirituality and what God expects us to do in this life back in 1992. He was a clever fellow. He had my number so he was always sure to speak about how we must obey God to do the "right thing" all the time.  ;) I told him that obeying God was not easy and serving God means being willing to give EVERYTHING up, including the respect of one's family, if need be. He said "Nobody is going to take what I have from me." 

You see, being such a clever fellow, he thought I was conning him the way he conned everybody he talked to. He figured I was going to hit him up for some cash, I suppose. So, he sent the SIGNAL that he didn't swallow any wooden nickels.  ;) So it goes with these successful business types.   

He died of cancer at around 53 years of age (2013). When the stage IV diagnosis was final, he said, "After all my sacrifices, why me?".

This fine fellow refused to make a will and left a massive bag of worms that his children are fighting over. My wife tried to talk to him about it and he said he could not because it caused him "too much stress". Please bear in mind that this guy was POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING on steroids! He was a bicycle racing fanatic and he sold and raced jet skis and motorcycles (at an earlier age). He had his kids so indoctrinated on mind over matter that his daughter claims to this day that her father died because he "gave up."!

The guy was a health food nut all his life and had never gone to or needed a doctor until the colon cancer. He had symptoms for YEARS and he flat refused to acknowledge them while he kept eating seaweed capsules and all kinds of other stuff the health food nuts eat. He would weigh himself every day. He would excoriate people for failing (not making enough money  ;D) by claiming (see Oprah  :icon_mrgreen:) they "attracted" failure with their "attitude". Touchy feely was not his thing.  8)

My, what an AMAZINGLY CONVENIENT way to give the finger to friends in need through happy talk psychobabble.   

But don't think he was the violent type. He wasn't. He was an excellent debater and rarely raised his voice. I have seldom. if ever, met a person more sure of himself. He had a buck passing answer for everything that might cost him some money while not missing a verbal beat in letting everyone know what a great guy he was and so on. Such a clever fellow...

He really believed in mind over matter. More specifically, HIS MIND over everybody's matter.  :evil4: When he finally realized it was not working, he did not want to talk about it. Claiming he was ready to "Go to God", he was hiding the location and amount of his considerable pecuniary assets for the exclusive benefit of two of his three children. I know this because his daughter slipped up in a conversation with her aunt (my wife) recently by stating that she was not aware during high school that she was a millionaire. 

My cancer doomed brother-in-law refused to even make an affidavit attesting that the motorcycle shop building was jointly owned by his brother. Consequently, his brother got shafted, two of his children are living high on the hog (his daughter moved to Beverly Hills and paid a YEAR's rent in advance for an apartment there.) and his oldest son, the one he did not get along with, received ZIP.

This is EVIDENCE that this brother-in-law, faced with death, could still not shake his GREED. He did the old 'pass the privilege to those who he decided deserved it' THING the rich, greedball, acquisitive types commonly do because of their arrogance. 

Well, SOMEBODY DID take everything he had away from him. Call it cancer or call it God. Either way, he deluded himself into believing he had an OUT. That OUT was favoring those he wanted to prosper materially.

This is why I insist that the only way these fine folks with gobs of money GET IT that their money does not mean ZIP, is when they are TOTALLY out of options. The eye of that needle is very, very narrow and rich camels are very ,very fat. Without divine intervention, only a looming catastrophe can get these morality challenged rich folks to see the big picture.   

Ashvin, this famous Theologian and philosopher defines Hell. It is a very brief definition. He can talk for hours (lots of U-tube lectures) on the Myth of Secular Progress so I am certain that he has more to say about Hell. But it is appropriate to present it here because, according to his definition, materialist are already there, so to speak. In fact, anyone who claims total freedom from ethical behavior IS THERE, according to him. A looming catastrophe might get them to leave the earthly door to Hell, so to speak.     What say ye?


« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 11:02:03 pm by AGelbert »
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37


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