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Author Topic: Intelligent Design  (Read 2851 times)

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Re: Intelligent Design
« on: November 25, 2013, 10:42:35 pm »
Thank you for posting my comment. Dr. Jonathan's reply evaded the answer by appealing to the interpretation that Genesis is literal and other portions of the Scripture are not. Like typology and Dispensationalism, that too is more interpretation references used as authority to cherry pick what is literal and what is not.

Dr. Jonathan's claim that Peter was not thinking about creation is an interpretation, not a fact.

Furthermore his fixation on the Exodus passage as giving weight and credence to the Genesis "day" length (work six days and rest on the Sabbath) lacks Scriptural weight. Why? As the Apostle Paul makes quite clear in Galatians, the entire purpose of the giving of the Law was to expose the futility of attempting to obey it. The Ten Commandments and all the multiple laws and regulations in Leviticus and Deuteronomy as well as Exodus are an ADJUSTMENT by God for man's stubborn and stiff necked nature,  certainly not a period to look upon with admiration and affirmation of the Genesis 6 "day" literal interpretation. Exodus marks the acts of a graceful God and a willful and disobedient people. Only when Christ finally came and told them in no uncertain terms that the bottom line is Loving Your Neighbor As Yourself and dying for our sins were we out of danger of perdition.

I could make a case for arguing that since we are urged to "pray without ceasing" and to evangelize "in season and out of it" that the traditions and rigidity associated with Jewish laws and customs are, like the path to hell, covered with good intentions but not a source of spiritual growth.  ;D I won't because only God can do anything at all 24 hours a day.

The Holy Spirit knows this so nobody should attempt to put a guilt trip on Christians because they don't literally "pray without ceasing". Others might jump in and interpret that phrase to mean being in a state of grace. But then we are back at the interpretation minefield that is often the Devil's workshop.

Back to God, the Creator of this universe and time also. What do you suppose He was doing between those Genesis "days"? Or do you believe one 12 hour "day" was followed by the next one with no "watch" or "night".  ???

Of course Almighty God knew the length of a day since He is the Creator of time as well as space. But why doesn't Genesis address what God did each night? He doesn't sleep or need to sleep. The "morning and evening" are defining a 12 hour DAY. That is not really debatable.

It is clear in Genesis that, even though there was no light at all, God Created nothing at all in the dark. Why? Because He did everything between the "morning and evening", period. And yet we know darkness was upon the earth until the fourth "day".  :o How do we "know" that?  ;D

Dr. Jonathan does not wish to discuss the lamps in the sky called the sun and moon that were placed there to divide the day from the night. That is the key to what the length of a day is as is reaffirmed by Jesus with his "12 hour" comment.

You have written correctly that the early church had no doubts about the literal length of the days of creation. The Apostle Peter had no doubts. When he urged patience with his comparison of a day to a thousand years, he had no knowledge of the 93 million miles we are from the sun, the fact that light takes about 9 minutes to get here from the sun and such other unnecessary knowledge required to evangelize and grow the Christian Church. The Holy Spirit allowed that bit of prose about a day and one thousand years to remain there because it is true, not something to be discarded because of the Procrustean Bed arbitrary 6 literal days of Creation.

Furthermore, since a 24 hour "day" is actually composed of the 12 hour day and the 12 hour "watch" or "night" or whatever one wishers to call that period when the main lamp (the sun) isn't visible, you must then ask, if you are literally interpreting Genesis, if those first six days were 12 hour "days" or 24 hour "days".

Genesis 1:4-5
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

So there is a 12 hour day (morning and evening) for the first "day", there is light and darkness in the universe, but not upon the earth. Why do I say this?
Because it isn't until some Genesis "days" later that God actually sets lamps in the sky to divide the day from the night.
Genesis 1:14-15
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

That means, necessarily, that WASN'T SO prior to the fourth day. There was LIGHT, but not upon the earth, until the fourth day.

Genesis 1:16-19
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The sun ("the greater light") did not divide the light from the darkness upon the earth until the fourth day.

Consequently, the expression, "And the evening and the morning were the first day." cannot be taken literally as to actual length of that "morning and evening"..

However, we must take literally the facts of the fourth day because, to this day, the sun does divide the light from the darkness. That is not debatable.

There is more that indicates those first three "days" in particular, were quite lengthy, to put it mildly.
The third "day" is a perfect example.
Genesis 1:12-13
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

The plant life Created on the third "day" grew, including the trees, to produce fruit all over the earth during a period when there was no sunlight upon the earth. Plant life, even before the mankind's fall from disobedience in the Garden of Eden, was, and still is, photosynthetic.

Again, God could certainly have miraculously accomplished all the above in a 12 hour "day" without the existence of the sun, but God's plan for plant growth argues that the "day" (It is true that the Hebrew word yom, translated "day," can have a variety of meanings. By far its most common is a literal day, but it can mean "age." http://www.icr.org/article/3228/ ) is more of an "age" (as in at least a thousand years when some dim light source other than the sun nourished the plant life) than a 12 or 24 hour day.

Your concern with the "slippery slope" of Christians reinterpreting the Scripture in terms of trying to fit the facts to the evolutionary Procrustean Bed is quite valid and I support your efforts to enlighten people as to the folly of the pseudo scientific claim that we are products of a random universe.

However, by fixating on the words of Moses when God inspired him to write Genesis and the rest of the Pentateuch as to the length of those first 6 "days", you are forced to de-emphasize Holy Spirit Inspired Scripture from the New Testament like that of the Apostle Peter. That's why I am being such a pest about your Procrustean Bed logic.  ;D That's a slippery slope too.  ;)

Your concern that a many thousand year interpretation of the Genesis Days leads to a loss of Faith is not warranted. Already you have made great strides in exposing the massive "scientific" dating technique errors and inaccuracies and how the dates are cherry picked to defend the multi-million year evolutionists' view of our existence.

I am concerned that if you actually run into some dating technique that indicates we are, say, 14,527 years, 2 hours and 47 minutes old on a given date due its established inerrancy in objects up to 6,000 years old, you will reject the data just as the evolutionists reject C-14 in diamonds and coal. Unlike the evolution supporting pseudo scientists, who have a Godless agenda and will lie and twist the facts to support it, Christians must follow the truth, period.

Your Brother in Christ,

A. G. Gelbert
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23


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