+- +-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 

Login with your social network

Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 48
Latest: watcher
New This Month: 0
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 16869
Total Topics: 271
Most Online Today: 11
Most Online Ever: 1155
(April 20, 2021, 12:50:06 pm)
Users Online
Members: 0
Guests: 7
Total: 7

Author Topic: Future Earth  (Read 27631 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #300 on: April 07, 2018, 02:19:08 pm »


What would be interesting to know is how much electrical energy it took to produce those lettuces in the Antarctic. Actually that equates to how many litres of distillate for the generators.

I believe your focus on energy requirements is not the most important issue here. The reason for that is that wind energy in Antarctica is off the charts high, as well as being nearly constant. They will always have plenty of energy to grow these veggies. The issue is whether this technique provides adequate nutrition for people and animals that will consume it. I am not convinced that it will.

One of the reasons I get tired of posting at the Doomstead Diner is your misguided fixation with energy issues. The problem is pollution, not energy. I will never convince you of that. That's regretable but I can deal with that as long as you stop using my channel to voice your erroneous world view that lack of energy instead of massive pollution from greenhouse gases is what will cause the collapse of human civilization. If your purpose is to "teach" me about what a "tough world" it is out there, you are wasting your time. I knew about that long before you did. If your purpose is to make me stop posting about the sine qua non benefits to mankind of Renewable Energy, you are succeeding. Keep it up and I will stop posting completely. Congratulations, fossil fueler.


Boy oh Boy, That Eden Project certainly looks inviting.

What a gorgeous looking vegetation endowed spot on our marvelous planet.  :emthup: :icon_sunny:


Yes, it is quite impressive. Did you see the large greenhouse in Iceland used for starting their tree saplings in the posted Iceland video? It wasn't that big but it wasn't small either. The Icelanders get it. Climate Change caused by greenhouse gases is THE issue of our time, not lack of energy.


For some really BIG greenhouses, though not in the attractive dome shape of the Eden Project, check out Denmark's massively huge greenhouses. I posted on it a while back. You can find it if you do a search. 8)


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #301 on: April 28, 2018, 07:37:37 pm »
The Tectonic & Volcanic 🌋 Events That Will Accompany The Melting Of The Ice Sheets — An Overview

April 28th, 2018 by James Ayre

As the ice sheets of the world melt, an enormous amount of pressure will be lifted off of the continental crusts that play host to them, as well as the surrounding oceanic basins. Something similar is broadly true, but to a much lesser degree, of the world’s remaining large glaciers (think of the Himalayas).

As this pressure is lifted, after tens of millions of years of being there, tectonic and volcanic features that have been dormant for hundreds of thousands of years or even tens of millions of years will awake — as will broader geologic-system elements and processes.

Melt streams on the Greenland Ice Sheet on July 19, 2015. Ice loss from the Greenland and Antarctic Ice Sheets as well as alpine glaciers has accelerated in recent decades. NASA photo by Maria-José Viñas.

The ice sheets of East Antarctica have effectively been there in one form or other for ~15 million years (to a lesser extent than now, though), while a portion of the Greenland ice sheet is thought to have partially melted around 120,000–130,000 years ago during the Eemian interglacial period. The volcanic and tectonic pressures of the regions in question, in other words, are now well primed.

While all of this may just sound like a horror story or something to some of those reading this, there’s a reason for that — a basic sense of highly traumatic natural disasters is encoded culturally (and possibly genetically as well) in people, with stories being the vehicle to bring such awareness to the surface. (This is the take of many people, mine included.) That basic sense effectively brings with it hundreds or thousands of millennia’s worth of “human” experience of extreme natural disruption and disaster. Hence the relatively common human fascination with them (think of the way that some but not all people are inherently wary of snakes and spiders, despite the very limited immediate danger they pose).

The reality is that the last few thousand years have been almost unbelievably stable by (pre)historical standards when it comes to geologic and volcanic events. Looking back across longer stretches of time, one sees what would be considered to be “civilization-wrecking” natural disasters regularly.

One also often sees, of course, oceans with currents, winds, and waves that would effectively make modern-style large-scale oceanic shipping an impossibility. These periods of time often seem to also be host to enormous and powerful storms that do not have modern analogs. But that’s mostly neither here nor there with regard to this subject. Though, I will note that as sea levels continue rising, and as ocean temperatures continue rising, the total area of the earth covered by the oceans will increase, and a greater portion of overall ocean area will relate to shallow areas — which will make the open oceans a much more dangerous place than they are now.

Back to the subject at hand, though, I’m going to provide an overview here of the potential volcanic and geologic events awaiting us as the world’s ice sheets disappear and the processes buried beneath them wake up. I’m going to do that by doing what reliably throughout human existence has given the best predictions — taking a look at the past (at actual geological history), inferring patterns, and intuitively projecting them out onto the future.

Basic Points & Timelines — Climate Change, Sea-Level Rise Pulses, & The Limited Effects Of Possible Volcanic Cooling Feedback

Thwaites Glacier. Image credit: NASA

As a reminder of why this matters, it should be realized that the world is now on track for a 3° Celsius to 8° Celsius temperature rise by the year 2100 — effectively, enough to lead to the complete melting of the West Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets, and possibly the East Antarctic ice sheet as well.


As far as the timing of such melting, assuming that the just mentioned range of warming occurs by 2100, it shouldn’t be assumed that melting and collapse will occur slowly or evenly. As noted in a 2007 paper co-authored by James Hansen: “We find no evidence of millennial lags between forcing and ice sheet response in paleoclimate data. An ice sheet response time of centuries seems probable, and we cannot rule out large changes on decadal time-scales once wide-scale surface melt is underway.”

That’s the reality of the situation — past ice sheet melting processes have played host to catastrophic pulse events, whereby global average sea levels have risen by many tens of feet in just a few years time.  :o

In such cases, pressure changes on tectonic plates and volcanic hotspots would have been severe, leading directly over the short  or mid term to a large uptick in volcanic and tectonic activity, as numerous studies exploring the issue have found. (For instance, by 2 to 6 times above background levels from 12,000 years ago to 7,000 years ago in de-glaciating regions with regard to volcanism.)

On that note, in the past when this subject has been brought up, I have heard some people argue that such an increase in volcanism would result in global cooling due to the release of reflective compounds into the atmosphere. A look back at geological history, though, shows clearly that this idea is mistaken — volcanic cooling due to the release of reflective compounds is a very short-term phenomena, whereas greenhouse gas climate forcing plays out over much longer periods of time. To simplify it, greenhouse gases are atmospheric gases, whereas the reflective compounds just discussed are essentially dust (which largely settles).

It should be realized here, in relation to that, that the current widespread burning of fossil fuels itself results in the release of such reflective compounds into the atmosphere. If such burning was to cease completely as of right now, the “cooling” effect provided by such compounds would disappear over just a few years while the “heating” effects provided by the greenhouse gases released to date would continue far into the future. As it stands, the greenhouse effect already greatly eclipses the cooling effect, but with the settling of the reflective compounds, heat gain would amplify quickly — leaving the world in a bit of a catch-22 when it comes to fossil fuel burning.

Moving on to the crux of the article…

Volcanic & Tectonic Potential Of Antarctica In Relation To Previous Ice Sheet Melt Events (+ Coal-Seam Fires 🔥?)

To start this off, it should be noted that some research examining the history of the relationship between volcanic events and ice sheet melting has posited the theory that one of the drivers for the relatively rapid shifts from glacial to interglacial time periods (as is often seen in the geologic record) is in fact rising rates of volcanism.

The idea is that, as ice sheets melt, the reduced pressure leads to rising rates of volcanism (as can be observed in the record) and this leads to gains in atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations over the mid term. So, to say it again, over the mid term, rising rates of volcanism leads to rising temperatures — as the cooling effect resulting from the volcanic emission of reflective compounds into the atmosphere is short lived whereas the effects of greenhouse gases are much longer lived.

Conversely, that idea includes the assertion that falling rates of volcanism (as interglacials drag on) is a cause of atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations and temperatures — and thus a return to glacial conditions.

Interestingly, the evidence also seems to show that, as temperatures rise, and thus as sea levels rise (from glacial melt), volcanic activity on the seafloor is reduced — owing to the greater weight of the water resting on it. Tectonic activity on the other hand is a different matter — as increasing oceanic weights may well intensify the intensity of earthquakes and similar events.

To go back to specifics here, there are numerous volcanoes currently active around the peripheries of Antarctica, but what’s very interesting is the presence of an extensive volcanic belt beneath the West Antarctic Ice Sheet — possibly the largest such belt of volcanoes in the world according to a recent study (at least 138 strong, some of which are quite extensive).

As noted in that study, West Antarctica is also home to one of the “most extensive regions of stretched continental crust on the Earth,” so it’s not surprising to learn that volcanic and tectonic activity in the region is potentially (periodically) quite high.

What’s particularly notable to us here right now, though, are the potential effects that such subglacial volcanic and tectonic activity could have on the stability to the nearby ice sheets. It isn’t necessary for an ice sheet to completely melt for a large volcano to erupt, after all — partial melting, and thus greatly reduced compression, could well be enough on its own to trigger widespread subglacial volcanic activity in the region.

And what would a large increase in volcanic and tectonic activity lead to in the region? Increased ice sheet melt rates? Large partial collapse events? Sea level rise pulses of several to tens of feet in just a few years time? To what degree could subglacial volcanic eruptions increase basal ice sheet flow rates?

Of course, no one can say for sure on any of those counts as of right now, but it is very notable that there’s evidence for numerous large sea level rise pulses throughout prehistory that retain ambiguous origins. The speculations discussed above provide a potential (partial) answer.

Back to the world of what is known concretely, Antarctica is currently home to at least 4 volcanoes on the mainland, and numerous volcanoes on nearby islands. As would be expected, these active volcanoes are only known of because they are located on the peripheries of the ice sheets, or on outcrops. Whatever volcanoes are present under the vast ice sheets have to be inferred (though they are clearly widespread, with there being at least 138 in just West Antarctica, as noted above).

Mount Erebus Image by NSF/Josh Landis

The 4 active mainland volcanoes are: Mount Berlin; Mount Hampton; Mount Melbourne; and Mount Kauffman — three stratovolcanoes and a caldera. On the surrounding islands, there are a fair number of active and large volcanoes as well, including Mount Erebus and Deception Island, both of which have been relatively active in recent history. Other island volcanoes known to be active are: Penguin Island; Buckle Island; Lindenberg Island; and Paulet Island.

The area around West Antarctica is also known to be home to numerous underwater volcanoes — some of which are located in relatively shallow areas.

Evidence for high levels of relatively “active” volcanoes in the region include pronounced geomagnetic anomalies, evidence of subglacial volcanism, and high regional heat fluxes — that all being the case, those that assume the relative quiet of recent centuries with regard to West Antarctic volcanism will continue indefinitely are likely mistaken. As the ice sheets there continue shedding mass (and thus lowering compression), an increase in activity seems likely.

Another aspect to consider while discussing this subject is the presence of large coal deposits and oil shales (dating back to the Devonian and Jurassic periods mostly) around the Transantarctic Mountain range. While such a possibility is a low-probability event, it still seems worth considering what would happen if these relativity exposed coal seams were to be ignited via volcanism (an event which appears that have happened at numerous times in prehistory in different parts of the world).

Volcanic & Tectonic Potential of Greenland as Ice Sheet Melts

What do we know about the volcanic and tectonic history of Greenland? Not much, due to the great thickness of the ice sheet that covers most of the island and limited research to date. What we can say for sure, though, is that a volcanic hotspot is located just to the east on the island on Iceland. We can also note that Iceland is known to have experienced an increase in volcanic activity as it de-glaciated.

Does this imply that something similar will happen in Greenland (but on a much larger scale)? No one can say for sure one way or another at this point.

Despite that being the case, I’ll still note here that, given the bowl-like shape of the island (with the ice sheet held in the center), potential subglacial volcanic eruptions would likely increase the rate at which the ice sheet melts and flows into the sea. Geologic history shows this to be the case in Iceland, and something very similar has been inferred to have happened numerous times in West Antarctica in the past as well.

Something that’s less up for debate, though, are the effects that the melting of the truly massive ice sheet of Greenland would have on the tectonic stability of the wider region. It’s pretty much a given that large tectonic events would follow over the near or mid term if the ice sheet were to completely (or even just largely) disintegrate. Other things to bear in mind are the possibilities of such melting events setting off sea-floor sediment collapses, like the one thought to have caused an enormous tsunami that hit Western Europe in prehistory; and also the inevitability of large post-glacial rebound in the surrounding areas (the land rises due to the lack of compression).

There are other possibilities as well, of course, but the aforementioned ones should give those who read this a better understanding of the way that ice sheet melting and cycles of regional and volcanic and tectonic activity are linked. While cycles may not show clearly on the global level when it comes to such things, they do tend to show on the regional and local levels.

Support CleanTechnica’s work via donations on Patreon or PayPal!

Or just go buy a cool t-shirt, cup, baby outfit, bag, or hoodie.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/28/the-tectonic-volcanic-events-that-will-accompany-the-melting-of-the-ice-sheets-an-overview/

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #302 on: June 10, 2018, 01:57:53 pm »

Bifurcation will lead to collapse and it is well under way.

Perhaps it will lead to revolution but even that is doubtful.

Poor people being forced not to consume scarce resources is not an ingredient for collapse, BAU is.


It seeems the "skill" of our propagandist mindforkers is being tested to the limit.


I am in agreement with GO on this issue. :o ;D As GO stated, more or less, the total collapse of civilization is being caused by BAU.


Thank you Agelbert, A most unusual and may I state "Delightful" circumstance for a change.  ;D :D   


GO said: A most unusual and may I state "Delightful" circumstance for a change.

When a person is, in my (not always ) very humble opinion, right, I try to not let my 'prejudices' get in the way of a wise and well thought out comment, like yours.

The horrendous inustices that oligarchs, kings, commissars, presidents (and other assorted elite riff raff throughout the sad history of the human species) visit on the masses is nothing new. What is new, is the increasingly unviable biosphere. This situation is a creeping cancer eating away at each and every complex life web system that we all depend on. This biosphere degradation, though imperceptible to most people due to its slow creep, has such MASSIVE inertia that it is virtually impossible to stop, or even slow.

Of course we should do what we can. Ignoring a cancer rarely cures it. But, as many who post here have said, more or less, THERE'S THE RUB! IOW, the ones with the actual power to DO something  to mitigate this Catastrophic Climate Change threatening to make us go the way of the Dodo Bird, refuse to engage in anything but slow, incremental steps that, though real and valid, are woefully inadequate.


I think I know why.

It's NOT because TPTB are stupid. They understand quite well what is going on with the climate. They understand that, no matter how titanic and massive the effort to clean up this planet's mankind Pollution Poisons produced by industry from mining to chemical factories to fossil fuels and so on, THIS generation, and probably the next FOUR GENERATIONS, will NOT see the benefits due to the massive inertia baked in to t Catastrophic climate Change.

Why invest trillions (it will take many trillians!) to convert our civilization to one that doesn't destroy the biosphere when you will not see much of ANY benefits in your elite oligarch life or that of your privileged offspring and two or three generations down the line as well?

But there is more. The transition to a sane civilization that lives in harmony with the biosphere will create havoc and poverty and death and strife and misery simply because THAT MONEY is now needed to keep the Catastrophic Climate Change damage from getting temporarilly 'out of hand' (see: finger in the dike).

Transitioning to a sane civilization that protects and preserves a viable biosphere is, for TPTB, just not a 'good investment'.


So, they do a bit of math and start hoarding all the goodies that they need to start a civilization all over again when the masssive die-offs happen.

They sit down with top scientists and try to get accurate data for the minum size cohort representatives of various species, including humans, to kick start the biosphere after it has been thoroughly trashed in the next 150 years or so (see: unstoppable Catastrophic climate Chane INERTIA).

It won't work. But, TPTB have always functioned this way. They know of no other way to behave, due to their moral failings.

GO, if you want to know why the plan TPTB have to survive with about 90% less "useless eater humans" is doomed to failure, PM me. It is unrelated to this thread and deals with Climate Change hard facts.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 03:40:55 pm by AGelbert »
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #303 on: July 11, 2018, 02:00:53 pm »
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #304 on: July 12, 2018, 01:22:46 pm »
CleanTechnica
Support CleanTechnica’s work via donations on Patreon or PayPal!

Or just go buy a cool t-shirt, cup, baby outfit, bag, or hoodie.

6 Climate Change Movies You HAVE To See 👀  🧐

July 11th, 2018 by Guest Contributohttp://echonewspaper.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/15-An-inconvenient-sequel.jpgr

Originally published on The Climate Reality Project.

Six deeply engaging and thought-provoking films shine a light on the realities of the climate crisis today – and imagine what it means for our tomorrow.

Truly great films about the climate crisis are tough to come by. Allusions to environmental destruction are very familiar in the futuristic dystopias Hollywood churns out like clockwork, but they rarely get the science right – or they abandon it entirely in favor of skipping straight to some post-apocalyptic CGI extravaganza.

Those of us with a little knowledge of the climate crisis bristle at this kind of doom-and-gloom bombast – because we know better. But that doesn’t mean a few thoughtful films haven’t been able to cut through the noise.

Below are six of our favorites. We decided to spice it up by mixing narrative films with documentaries – and while our changing climate understandably casts a long, dark shadow over any future that wrestles with its impacts, we did our best to stay on the right side of the fine line between raucous, factually dubious calamity and thought-provoking “what if” explorations or science-centered spectacle.


Interstellar

Director Christopher Nolan’s Interstellar is that rarest of Hollywood anomalies – a wildly complicated, lavishly expensive, wholly original mainstream blockbuster. It doesn’t exist in the Marvel or DC cinematic universes; instead, it occupies a not-so-distant-future version of our very own – and things aren’t exactly going great.

While the words “climate change” are never explicitly said in the film, the impacts of the crisis are writ large, driving a plot about an attempt to flee a near-future Earth reeling from drastically changing weather patterns and global food shortages for the safety of a new habitable planet.

Featuring one of the most stacked casts in recent memory, including Oscar winners Matthew McConaughey, Anne Hathaway, Michael Caine, and Ellen Burstyn and nominees Jessica Chastain, Timothée Chalamet, and John Lithgow, Interstellar takes on a very real consequence of climate inaction, though it offers up an untenable solution.

After all, there’s still no Planet B.

Beasts of the Southern Wild

Living in a Louisiana bayou community called “the Bathtub,” six-year-old Hush Puppy (youngest-ever Best Actress Oscar nominee Quvenzhané Wallis) can’t get the prehistoric aurochs her teacher tells her will be released from melting ice caps off her mind – even as the world in front of her crumbles and cowers, the victim of powerful storms, failing levees, and familial health problems.

While the film’s setting is technically fictional, it was inspired by several very real fishing villages in Southern Louisiana’s Terrebonne Parish. These small, isolated wetland communities are threatened by climate-driven erosion, extreme weather, and rising sea levels. Most notable among them is the rapidly disappearing Isle de Jean Charles, former home of “the first American climate refugees.”


Chasing Coral

The 2017 documentary Chasing Coral enjoys a rare accolade: It is one of a pretty short list of films to hold a 100 percent “fresh” rating on popular review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes.


That coral reefs are existentially threatened by the climate crisis is a truth near-universally acknowledged. But filmmaker Jeff Orlowski doesn’t simply telegraph a report on this impending ecological catastrophe.

Instead, Orlowski infuses his film with such empathy and ardor for our world’s oceans and their vibrant ecosystems – as well as those working hard to save what’s left – that it’s impossible to not walk away pumped up and ready to join the fight.


Snowpiercer

Like we already mentioned, we try to avoid cynical, despondent hot takes on the climate crisis. But we’re fans of director Bong Joon Ho’s Snowpiercer for two big reasons: First, it’s a very, very good, wildly underseen film, and second, because it confronts head-on the dangers of a “we’ll deal with this later” approach to climate action.

The film is set in a future where a failed geoengineering experiment to counteract climate change plunges the planet into a new ice age, killing all life except for those lucky enough (a phrase we’re using loosely here) to have boarded the titular train. This train now circles the globe on a constant loop and a tyrannical class system has taken hold onboard.

It’s an important cautionary tale: While we should investigate any and all scientific developments to stop the climate crisis, dangerous gambles like geoengineering – or for that matter, fleeing our planet for an imagined oasis somewhere deep in the universe – could come with unintended consequences. So, why risk it when we know for sure that quickly transitioning from fossil fuels to renewables can and will work?

There’s even an important philosophical principle – one at work in another great, underappreciated sci-fi film, 1997’s Contact – to back this one up. Attributed to fourteenth century logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham, Ockham’s Razor states… well, Jodie Foster’s Dr. Ellie Arroway put it best: “All things being equal, the simplest answer is usually the right one.”

(We agree, Dr. Arroway.)

Note: For all its incredible imagination, Snowpiercer definitely has some moments of real violence and isn’t one for younger audiences.


An Inconvenient Truth/An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power

Now, of course, the film that started a movement – and the follow-up that propelled it to new heights.

After seeing former US Vice President Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth, people worldwide finally understood the reality of the climate crisis devastating our planet. For many, it was the moment they knew they personally had to do something about it. The film’s impact continues to be felt more than a decade after it won the 2007 Academy Award for Best Documentary and took its place among the highest-grossing documentaries ever.

Last year’s follow-up, An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power, took that story further, showcasing both the amazing progress that’s been made as well as how much further we still have to go to solve the climate crisis.

Both documentaries present the science and stakes of the crisis and ask viewers if they’re ready to fight like our world depends on it (because it does).


ARE YOU READY TO FIGHT?

Just like you saw others do in An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power, you too can work with Vice President Gore himself along with a host of field-leading experts and activists to learn the facts of the climate crisis and how we can solve it together. Apply today to attend our Climate Reality Leadership Corps training in Los Angeles, California, from August 28-30, and join an incredible network of dedicated activists devoted to solving the greatest challenge of our time.

You know our climate is changing. You know renewable energy is the answer. And you want to make a difference. We’ll show you how.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/07/11/6-climate-change-movies-you-have-to-see/


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #305 on: July 21, 2018, 10:36:12 pm »
Future Megaprojects - Dome Over Houston

(Extreme Engineering | Megastructures) Documentary

38,793 views


Quote
High Engineering

Published on May 8, 2018

Dome Over Houston

Houston Texas is in peril. The country's fourth most populous city faces hurricanes heat and the growing consequences of global warming. Only a radical solution can save the city a solution that may lie within a massive dome 1500 feet high and a mile in diameter that will rise over the city center. Building the dome will require innovative engineering and construction on an unprecedented scale with lessons materials and techniques drawn from around the world. From the Eden Project the world's largest geodesic domes to a tiny factory in Bremen Germany which manufactures a revolutionary plastic the idea of a city-sized dome could finally become reality.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #306 on: July 31, 2018, 08:40:46 pm »
Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Socialism – RAI with A. Buzgalin (12/12)

July 29, 2018

On Reality Asserts Itself, Prof. Alexandr Buzgalin says the conditions for socialism did not exist in the 1920’s but now they do, but there will be many zigs and zags getting there – with host Paul Jay


Story Transcript

PAUL JAY: Welcome to The Real News Network. I’m Paul Jay, and this is Reality Asserts Itself. And we’re in New York, and you might notice that we’re in a different studio, we’re still in New York City. And joining us again to continue our discussion is Professor Alexander Buzgalin. Alexander Buzgalin is a professor of political economy and the director of the Center for Modern Marxist Studies at Moscow State University. Thanks for joining us again.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Thank you. I’m very glad to have this dialogue.

PAUL JAY: So, you are a professor of Marxist studies, and one of the core concepts of Marx, as I understand it, is socialism is born in the womb of capitalism, just as capitalism was born in the womb of feudalism, and so on. And the conditions for the development of socialism argued by Marx and Engels and others, Lenin and others, was that a fully developed modern industrial capitalism gives rise to big enterprises that are extremely well-planned internally, even though overall in the economy, in the politics, it’s still anarchy. It’s still very chaotic and there’s no planning. And that the- if those big enterprises could become public, publicly owned, then all that internal efficiency and organization could then extend towards the whole economy, and you could have a planned economy and avoid the periodic crises, the recessions and so on. When you look around the world now and you look at this thesis, how does one apply that to what you see?

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: You made great provocation, and I am afraid that I will not propose now boring lecture, but provocation is for boring lecture, really, especially for a professor. If we can look on modern development of the material production, we really have material basis for the beginning of communist era, very beginning. I will use one historical parallel. For the beginning of capitalist era, capitalist mode of production, it was necessary to have division of labor and automized producers. Industrial system was not inevitably necessary for that beginning. For the stabilization, for the victory, yes, it was necessary to have industrial production. So, the period from relatively developed craft production with this division of labor, with roads and with relatively free of personality, it was basis for market for market and for very beginning of capitalist epoch.

PAUL JAY: Okay, hang on. Break that down for people who don’t know what you’re talking about. So, when you mean division of labor, what does that mean?

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Division of labor is very simple thing. I am producing bread, you are producing milk, another guy is producing butter, somebody producing equipment, somebody is helping for horses to grow up, and so on. Everybody is doing his separate things.

PAUL JAY: Instead of one farmer doing everything for himself.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Yeah, because people were living, thousands years, when everybody was produced by family, all, and consumed by family. So, and capitalism was growing with zig zags, with victories and defeats, five hundred years. Even now in Russia in twenty-first century, we still don’t have final victory of capitalism, by the way. So, the same with genesis of communism.

PAUL JAY: Meaning there’s still some feudalism in the countryside.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Yeah, we have a lot of such. Forty percent of potato is produced in the dacha, pieces of land which people has to have food in poor regions of Russia. So, and this is Russia, this is not in central Africa. So, let’s move to the parallel. For genesis of communism, it’s also necessary to have minimal prerequisites and optimum basis. Minimum prerequisites is a strong, developed industrial production with big enterprises specialized in different spheres and interconnected by international corporation or at least national corporation.

We already have this in main countries of the world, even in newly developed, new industrial countries like Brazil or Russia, China and so on. So, this is minimum. And we can start moving to the new society with assistance of plan, with modern computers, with modern internet technologies. Even now, a huge corporation knows what everybody, what Buzgalin and you, another girl, boy, I don’t know, dog, what in the supermarket this minute, this second, because this is universal information. Through social networks, it is possible to receive information about every step of everybody in the world. And it’s not problem, technically it’s not problem to put all this information together and to use optimization models. The problem is social.

PAUL JAY: To plan an economy.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Planned economy. The problem is social.

PAUL JAY: Just an example of one of the most brilliantly internally planned economies is Amazon, which does exactly what you’re saying, and is able to not just know when you like a particular type of toothpaste to tell you here’s a greater tube of toothpaste, but to plan that supply chain globally.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Yeah, it’s true. So, and the problem is social. And main problem, main negative feature of market is not simply crisis of all production or disproportions in some spheres. Main negative feature of market is consumerization of society, commodity fetishism and fetishism now even of simulacra of commodities, signs, symbols. Simulacra means- okay, one example which I use everywhere, maybe it will be well-known after that. If you have jacket with Hugo Boss here, this jacket will cost one thousand dollars. If it is, I don’t know, “Red Moscow,” it will be fifty dollars. What is the difference? Brand. And this value is created by marketing, not by production of goods, by production of symbols. And this production of symbols is main negative result of market. And people who are spending, I don’t know, all weekends in the megamalls for shopping, they are worse than alcoholics. They are shopaholics. I don’t know if it’s possible to say in English.

PAUL JAY: Yeah, that is a term.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Yeah, so that’s why this is negative. And we can move this, but this is minimum prerequisite for movement towards new society. Why? Because communism is a society where people have as main need, interesting work. Second, in your working place, in your life, you have not competitors who must be killed, not physically but economically killed. You have people with whom, in solidarity, you are making, together, something interesting.

PAUL JAY: But this vision, the way you’re articulating it, more or less, was the same vision from the Soviet Union from the 1920s and all the way, and it didn’t work. It didn’t become the kind of society you’re talking about. What’s different about now?

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: First of all, in 1920s, we had absolute minimum basis for the beginning. It’s like to build capitalism without machines, even without steam. And to build capitalism when you have not simply steam, but electricity and so on, it’s much easier. So, now we have big progress of productive forces, if I can use Marxist terminology. Second, we have experience of one hundred years of mistakes and victories. And this is also very important. And finally, even now, we have chances only to start this process. And then will be long zig zag. I use parallel of Mississippi, which is going from North to the South and is a lot of zig zags. So, we can start moving from the very beginning, a small, very, very small river. Communist huge river will be in the future if we will pass all the zig zags and barriers. So, this is the problem. And modern capitalism, financial capital, virtual, fictitious capital, creates enormous obstacles. Now, main efforts of technicians, software specialists, artists even, is used for what? For marketing, for management, for financial speculations, for increasing of derivatives, profit, profit, profit.

PAUL JAY: Most of the best mathematicians and even physicists are working on Wall Street, writing algorithms to game the stock market.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Yeah. And what is technical progress? 1900, beginning of twentieth century, first airplane can fly two hundred meters with speed fifty kilometers per hour. Fifty years later, airplane, nine hundred kilometers through continents. What we have now, the same airplane.

PAUL JAY: So, you’ve got, if you call this the material conditions for socialism, you’re saying communism, is these enormously well-organized, efficient, massive corporations like Amazon’s one of the best examples, but there’s others. And artificial intelligence is going to raise that to a whole other scale. But they’re privately owned. And as long as the ownership remains private, there’s no reason any of what you’re saying should come about.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: It’s absolutely true. And the choice is very simple. Either we have elite, a lot of semi-slaves and a lot of useless people- of course, people cannot be useless, but they are useless for capital. Or, we have communist society or socialism at the beginning of movement in this direction.

PAUL JAY: And why do you jump to the word communist? Because this ain’t gonna happen fast, there’s going to be a long transition. If it happens at all, it’s going to be long.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: For me it is important in order to be able to show the trend. I used word communism because you know, when you fix, socialism is transformation from capitalist or even feudal and capitalist society, slavery, feudalism and capital together, to the new society. And period of transformation is socialism. But if you lose trajectory, if you lose direction, it will be tragedy. I am asked in China very often, “We have the same economy as in Soviet Union during New Economic Policy, yes or no?” I say, in some aspects, no. Why? Because during new economic policy, 1920s, it was said, “We must move from mixed economy, semi-democratic political system with a lot of oppression of people because it’s class struggle in very intensive form, towards the real democracy, real humanism, real socialism.” And this is the vector, with zig zags, but in this direction. China doesn’t have this direction. They can say that more private property is better.

PAUL JAY: Just very quick, for people that don’t know, what is the NEP period in the Soviet Union? ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: New Economic Policies period is just after socialist revolution and civil war, which started in 1921, led by Lenin Bolsheviks but with a lot of bourgeoise intelligentsia together, and it was a period when we had market economy with plans, we had a lot of private property, especially in agriculture or in villages, in agriculture. We had the first state enterprises and we had very big enthusiasm from below. Millions of people in poor country, ordinary workers, participated in clubs where they were learning how to make poem, how to create poem, how to be sportsmen, how to be scientist and engineer, how to make radio- it was more than to make computer now- how to go to the space. Of course, not space, but to make airplane, something like that.

PAUL JAY: So, the idea is that you could have a certain amount of privately owned-

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Yeah, it was big amount of market privately owned.

PAUL JAY: As you head toward bigger the arc toward socialism, whereas in China they seem to be heading towards a bigger arc toward state capitalism and not much beyond that.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: Yeah. And when it is official rhetoric, they will say that they are moving in socialist direction. But to say that we will less and less private property, never. They don’t touch this question, so I don’t want to go to the problem of China, but just to mention it.

PAUL JAY: Well, let’s go back to the scale of internally well organization, the globalization of production that came with digitization and computers that enabled all of this, is about- you know, we’re on the precipice of a whole new, real qualitative leap in that kind of technology, called artificial intelligence. What do you make of the significance of that? In fact, one, in the short term, meaning in the next five, ten years or so, we could see millions of jobs lost. And then two, if you add to that the climate crisis and the deteriorating environment and the deteriorating ability of humans to live on this earth.

I really see the wealthy elites, and I’m told that literally they are talking about having their own escape plans, and imagining a life which is the wealthy, serviced by robots, artificial intelligence creates everything, and the rest of the population of the world can live like in the movie Hunger Games. You know, they can go screw off, and whatever happens to them, too bad. And there’s a very serious conversation going on amongst the elites that the real danger is that when that happens, the elites will be so dependent on robots and artificial intelligence that AI is actually going to take over from the humans. And very serious scientists are projecting that that will happen. And they’re concerned about that part, they’re not so concerned about what happens to the eighty, ninety percent of rest of the people of the world.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: First of all, you gave the answer. I agree with you. But I will give command on your command. First of all, about this artificial intelligence and elite and so on. They will create jobs for servants, for slaves, because even now, you can go to the restaurant where there is no waitress and it is more efficient, cheaper, and no problems. But if you are rich, you want to see it and to have ten persons around you. One will bring you bread, another will bring you water, third will make something else, one girl will come and put the napkin. So, that’s why for servants, for slaves, it will be space, but this is terrible. This is not salvation of the problem, this is creation of the terrible problem. Second, important remark. To have jobs is not as important in communism as it is important in capitalism. Because communist society means that you can work four hours a day, and it will be two times less jobs and it will be very good, very positive because people will have time to educate, to develop their cultural level, not to spend time in supermarkets and with drugs or computer games. The key problem of communism is not to create jobs, not to create consumption.

PAUL JAY: But then you get the question, who is going to control this artificial intelligence? Because the kind of world you’re talking about, it ends up a political problem. Who has power, and artificial intelligence for whom?

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: That’s the key question. And the key is, the answer is very well-known. If we have grassroots democracy, basic democracy, so if life is controlled by people, to make it simple, we can move in the direction of a society where we have a short working day, where we have a lot of tasks to work in this field of culture, education, art, ecology. We have a lot of social problems. To put all these poor people who are starving and to move them to the cultural life, to create creators from degradated people, this is a task for everybody for a hundred years. So, we have a lot of work which must be done. Now, if we have no necessity to produce things, if we have robots, then we have enormous amount of work to make everybody poet, to make everybody healthy. To make everybody educated. And demand that everybody, billions of people who are in a terrible situation and who cannot do it themselves, it’s necessary to help them to do this together.

ALEXANDER BUZGALIN: I’m absolutely happy that we had these long dialogues and very important dialogues because Russia is very isolated from the world in many aspects. And when we can explain what is our life, how it is interconnected with international processes, when we can be together in these dialogues, it’s extremely important for us. So, I ask everybody who has interest, let’s be in touch. And this is not an abstract word, solidarity. This is real necessity to move to build international solidarity. And this is a task for intellectuals, for ordinary people, for the left, for everybody. And thank you very much, Paul, for this talk, it’s absolutely fantastic. Thank you for everybody who was watching us, listening to us.

PAUL JAY: Well, thank you so much. It’s a privilege to finally have you here and not just on webcam. And thank you for joining us on Reality Asserts Itself on The Real News Network.

https://therealnews.com/stories/artificial-intelligence-and-the-future-of-socialism-rai-with-a-buzgalin-12-12
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #307 on: October 04, 2018, 07:54:41 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: This is an interesting thought exercise. 🧐 If humanity is to survive Catastrophic Climate Change, this type of big picture thinking involving massive global 🌍 scale action is sine qua non, even if this particular plan is not the best approach. What do you think? 🤔

Can We Terraform the Sahara to Stop Climate Change


849,311 views


Real Engineering

Published on Sep 14, 2018
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #308 on: October 07, 2018, 10:34:04 pm »
Artist: Vincent van Gogh (Dutch, Zundert 1853–1890 Auvers-sur-Oise)
Date: 1888
Medium: Oil on canvas
Dimensions: 18 x 21 3/4 in. (45.7 x 55.2 cm)
Classification: Paintings
Credit Line: Purchase, The Annenberg Foundation Gift, 1992
Accession Number: 1992.374

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/object-package?pkgids=415
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #309 on: October 25, 2018, 03:40:55 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: I have been advocating this approach to preserving water in drought ridden areas for years . Water bodies like hydropower dams will also benefit from the added PV energy . The aquatic 🐟 life benefits because the water temperature does not rise enough to threaten them while the water level remains more stable. I hope this common sense solution is adopted in the Western USA, where more severe droughts are an increasingly deleterious effect of Catastrophic Climate Change (see below).

Interactive Map: Precipitation in the 2050s

Johnson Controls installing Colorado’s first floating solar array 

By Billy Ludt | October 18, 2018

Johnson Controls will implement Colorado’s first floating solar PV array at the Town Water Treatment Facility in Walden. The array will provide a renewable and supplemental energy source to treat drinking water in the town, school district and Jackson County offices.

Colorado’s first floating solar PV array at the Town Water Treatment Facility in Walden. The array will help the town cut back on energy use and secure a more sustainable future, made possible through a performance contract.

The array will help conserve water by limiting pond evaporation and can potentially minimize algae growth in the pond. Additionally, its capacity is approximately 75 kW, which will offset a good portion of the power purchased used to treat drinking water for the town and in some months, could completely power the town’s drinking water facility.

“This is a monumental project for our town and will help to further our reputation as a leader in sustainability,” said Jim Dustin, mayor of Walden. “We knew Johnson Controls was the perfect partner for this project as a prequalified energy services company through the CEO performance contract program and their extensive solar experience. This project is a testament of what can be achieved with a little bit of sun, multiple state agencies and private industries working together for one common goal—and provides a great example for other towns across the state and country to emulate.”

The project was made possible through a performance contract with Johnson Controls and supported by the Colorado Energy Office (CEO). Through the contract, Walden is guaranteed energy savings and approximately 2,503,974 kWh over the next 20 years. Additional funding was secured through the Department of Local Affairs through an Energy Mineral and Impact Grant.

“The Town of Walden is setting the bar high for the state’s energy resiliency efforts,” said Rowena Adams, performance infrastructure account executive for Johnson Controls. “They are a prime example of the impact even a small town can have in being mindful of energy consumption and securing their energy future with the help of innovative solutions made possible through funding approaches like performance contracts.”

Johnson Controls worked with the non-profit organization GRID Alternatives Colorado—a leader in making clean, affordable solar power and solar jobs accessible to low-income communities—and Ciel & Terre, a floating rack manufacturer, to design, build and expedite racking delivery so the system could be commissioned by fall 2018.

News item from Johnson Controls

https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2018/10/johnson-controls-installing-colorado-floating-solar-array/
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #310 on: October 29, 2018, 09:15:53 pm »
BOOK Title: Otto of the silver hand

Author(s): Pyle, Howard

Publisher: New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1914

Schwartz Carl, holding his arbelast in his hand, stood silently watching.

ARTIST
Name: Pyle, Howard

DESCRIPTION
A man with a crossbow hides in wait in the shadow of a doorway.

Dates: 1853-1911

Country: US

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #311 on: October 30, 2018, 12:52:40 pm »
BOOK Title: Otto of the silver hand

Author(s): Pyle, Howard

Publisher: New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1914

Schwartz Carl, holding his arbelast in his hand, stood silently watching.

ARTIST
Name: Pyle, Howard

DESCRIPTION
A man with a crossbow hides in wait in the shadow of a doorway.

Dates: 1853-1911

Country: US


??WTF?? What you up to, AG?

"Better a hand of silver than a hand of iron."

I must have read it as a kid, but that is all I can remember.


I'm just being cryptic.

Sir Tristem


DESCRIPTION

A knight on his last journey lies in a small boat with a figurehead in the shape of a swan and sails like wings. This is an illustration to the poem “Sir Tristem” by Robert Williams Buchanan, based on the Tristan legend.''

ARTIST

Name: Millais, John Everett

Dates: 1829-1896

Country: UK

Agelbert NOTE: On December 31, 1967, near midnight, I was driving around San Juan and I saw the giant "1968" lighted letters on the top of a bank building. I said, "1968 is going to be one hell of a year!". I meant it in a positive sense. I was 180 degrees out of phase. 

Perhaps my psychic glimpses into the future have improved somewhat. Perhaps not. Nevertheless, FWIW, I have a foreboding feeling about what is coming within the next year.


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #312 on: October 30, 2018, 06:21:32 pm »
Schwartz Carl, holding his arbelast in his hand, stood silently watching.

ARTIST
Name: Pyle, Howard

DESCRIPTION
A man with a crossbow hides in wait in the shadow of a doorway.

Crossbows are GREAT! I have a Pistol sized one great for nailing squirrels and rabbits.  Also Fish in a shallow stream.


80 lb draw.  With a Silver Dart, you can take out Vampires, Zombies and Repugnants.

RE



Don't forget the Anti-Christ(s).
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #313 on: November 20, 2018, 08:24:45 pm »
If you are a person of good will, this video covers a lot of ground you mostly know already, but in an excellent, hard truth filled package. If you are a supporter of the Capitalist Profit Over People and Planet Economic system (i.e you believe with all your heart and soul that "CAPITALISM, warts and all, is the best economic system there is"), this is possibly the most significant video you will see in your life.

It's long but it exposes the inevitability of the extinction of the human species UNLESS we totally replace the corporate state, in ALL its Capitalist/Fascist forms, with a Socialist structure that is fastidious and uncompromising about the primacy of protecting, preserving and expanding a VIABLE BIOSPHERE for ALL the life forms that we share this planet with. This is not "idealistic"; this is SINE QUA NON for a Viable Biosphere.


The result of this holistic approach, which requires a VETO POWER DECISION PROCESS FILTER for human economic activity, where ALL the biosphere math addition and subtraction in regard to ALL planned human actions are studied and measured PRIOR to allowing ANY country or business to engage in them, or subsidize them in some other way, is a reasonable expectation of continued human existence.

For those stupid, arrogant, hidebound, greedy people reading this who claim that "incremental measures will solve all the problems of Profit Over People and Planet" that CAPITALISM has cursed our biosphere with, I suggest you keep believing the convenient fantasy that "you are just being pragmatic". Keep believing that Chris Hedges and people like myself (and many other people of good will on Earth) are "too idealistic and impractical". Keep clinging to your stock market investments and your comfortable smug assumption that "Socialism was tried and it failed".

There is not a snowball's chance in Hell of mankind surviving while continuing to break the laws of LIFE, SINE QUA NON for a Viable Biosphere. When this increasingly Catastrophic Climate Change destroys the last shred of your Capitalist "greed is good" manufactured reality, it will be less painful for you if you cannot accept that reality.

Already, millions of white workers who's "American Dream" has been exposed as the American Scream by Capitalist Cruelty, have turned to a Demagogue Con Artist (i.e. Trump) for more assurance that "their beliefs actually were well founded and the dream", which was never real, "is just around the Trump promised corner".

This amazingly tragic level of denial in the face a degraded environment and destroyed job prospects is what you people with fat wallets will soon also enter into, as Chris Hedges makes crystal clear in the video below, instead of accepting that you were propagandized to embrace an environmentally suicidal economic system from the time you were knee high to a grasshopper.

Maybe you'll go nuts and embrace mass suicide like a nuclear war in order to avoid accepting the FACT that you embraced a morally bankrupt world view that is destroying our species, and thousands of other high order mammalian vertebrate species. Arrogant pride can, unfortunately, really lock people into doubling down on destructive behavior.

For the smug egotist, going out in a "blaze of glory" is, too often, preferable to admitting error. I hope you realize, before it is too late, that humble pie about our responsibility for all the harm we have collectively AND INDIVIDUALLY caused is not optional if we wish to survive.

Whatever you do, our species has NO FUTURE as long as Business as Usual with token feel good small incremental steps to "fix" our grotesque economic system and mitigate climate change continue.




SOCIALISM that respects, defends and protects the ENTIRE BIOSPHERE IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.

Chris Hedges, "American Anomie"
45,214 views


mediasanctuary

Published on Nov 6, 2018

Chris Hedges spoke at The Sanctuary for Independent Media in Troy NY on November 3, 2018.  He is a Truthdig columnist, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, a New York Times best-selling author, a professor in the college degree program offered to New Jersey state prisoners by Rutgers University, and an ordained Presbyterian minister. He has written 12 books, including the New York Times best-seller “Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt” (2012), which he co-authored with the cartoonist Joe Sacco. His other books include "Wages of Rebellion: The Moral Imperative of Revolt," (2015) “Death of the Liberal Class” (2010), “Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle” (2009), “I Don’t Believe in Atheists” (2008) and the best-selling “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America” (2008). His latest book is "America: The Farewell Tour" (2018). His book “War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning” (2003) was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award for Nonfiction and has sold over 400,000 copies. He writes a weekly column for the website Truthdig and hosts a show, "On Contact," on RT America.

A SanctuaryTV Production: Director/Switcher-Branda Miller; Cameras- Dave Publow, Jay Wilcox; Sound- Troy Pohl; Editor- Michael Siarkowsi; Executive Producer-Steve Pierce; Special Thanks- Meghan Marohn.
www.mediasanctuary.org

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36276
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Future Earth
« Reply #314 on: November 21, 2018, 08:12:12 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: The following article involves scientifically optimistic speculation. That means that they are hopeful, BUT THE TECHNOLOGY THEY ARE COUNTING ON IS NOT THERE YET.

I post it because I respect Elizabeth Kolbert's work. Nevertheless, I am extremely skeptical of this CO2 technofix (see my kitty graphic). It just reads too much like HOPIUM to me. The CONSPICUOUS LACK of fingering ( see" "root cause" NOT defined as as burning hydrocrabons  - "root cause" is defined here as "CO2 concentration", which is ACTUALLY a RESULT OF THE ROOT CAUSE, AS WELL AS A SYMPTOM OF THE EXTENT OF DAMAGE BEING INFLICTED BY THE ROOT CAUSE! ) the Hydrocarbon Hellspawn BASTARDS (i.e. the Fossil Fuel Fascists), hell bent to continue profit over planet business as usual, is the TELL that these scientists are not even being 50% reality based in their "technology will save us" speculation.

Yeah, we can just keep burnin' all that fine and dandy fossil fuel that, uh, isn't the root cause of the CO2 root cause , because we will have lots of fantastic technology in just a decade or so ;D, sucking all that nasty "root cause CO2" out of the sky and turning it into rocks and other good stuff much, much faster than our loyal servants the Fossil Fuel Industry can sucker get us to pump said "root cause CO2" into the sky when we burn what they sell us, of course

What these scientists are trying to do, while they claim they are "not compensating for the symptoms of climate change",  IS COMPENSATE for the symptoms INSTEAD OF attacking the ROOT CAUSE, which is BURNING HYDROCARBONS. The fact that they make the ridiculous claim that they "aren't geoengineering" based on their convenient definition of the "root cause of Climate Change" (it's like saying the "root cause" of your death by gunshot is not the killer or the gun, it's the bullet. 😈 The killer and/or the gun are mere symptoms. ;) The bullet is the "root cause", so let's start subsidizing bullet collection. Banning bullet manufacturing and the guns that shoot them is merely "compensating for the symptoms") is evidence that they are playing word games to keep from ruffling Fossil Fuel Fascist Feathers.

Enjoy the hopium. ::) 

Climate Solutions: Is It Feasible to Remove Enough CO2 from the Air?

A U.S. scientific panel reports that technologies that take CO2 out of the atmosphere could be a significant part of a strategy to mitigate global warming. In an e360 interview, Stephen Pacala, the panel’s chairman, discusses how these fast-developing technologies are becoming increasingly viable.

BY ELIZABETH KOLBERT  • NOVEMBER 15, 2018

SNIPPET:

e360: Your panel looked at techniques like afforestation and better land use, you also looked at enhanced weathering of rock. And you looked at the holy grail, I suppose, which is direct air capture of CO2, where we suck it out of the air and bury it or mineralize it. Where do you see the potential for big breakthroughs here?

Pacala:
I think that afforestation, reforestation, changes in forest management, rebuilding the carbon backbone that maintains the fertility in our agricultural soils, and biomass energy with carbon capture and storage using waste biomass can supply material gains.

Negative Emissions Technologies (NETs) range from low-tech, such as planting more trees, to more high-tech options, such as developing machines to scrub CO2 from the air. NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, 2018

With the direct air capture technologies, 10 years ago you would have said that’s just like a fairy tale. But because of diligent activity by a small number of technical people, there’s been very rapid progress, so much so that knowledgeable people who are not starry-eyed, but just hard-headed, believe that there is a very high probability that a research effort within 10 years would produce direct air capture at less than a dollar a gallon of gasoline. That’s $100 a ton [of captured CO2].

Imagine a scenario where you fly over to Germany and burn aviation gas on the way over, but we have a direct air capture machine that for $100 a ton takes CO2 out of the atmosphere and puts it in the ground to compensate. And the question is, how much did that cleansing of the atmosphere cost in terms of the fuel? The answer is an extra dollar a gallon. So it’s going from say, $2.50 to $3.50 a gallon. Now, aviation biogas, which is the alternative, costs way more than that, and it takes land away from other uses that we need. If you could get [the carbon capture price] down to 50 cents a gallon to solve the carbon and climate problem, how great is that? Our panel thinks direct air capture could be brought into the marketplace in a heavy way within 10 years’ time.

e360: That’s owing to some kind of technological breakthrough, or because we’re just going to bring the cost of these processes down?

Pacala: It’s just cost. It’s an exact analogy to wind and solar. The government should create a market by subsidizing the activity, and then have every super-ambitious person in Silicon Valley who wants to save the world and become the richest person in it, compete with every other such person and drive the costs relentlessly down, and we’ll all be the beneficiaries.

Quote
“The ongoing denials of the science, particularly in Republican Party circles, are just something that true conservatives wouldn’t condone.”

I don’t expect to be surprised with direct air capture, because I think that direct air capture developers will succeed. If there’s a surprise, it’s in the enhanced mineralization area. Underneath our feet are minerals, and because they’ve never been exposed to the atmosphere, they are in a state that would spontaneously bind CO2 and turn it into carbonate minerals: rocks. How much of this rock is there? It’s hard to measure exactly, but some estimates say that something like 1,000 times the amount exists that would be necessary. So we’ve got this resource beneath our feet that we haven’t even known was a resource. Haven’t mapped it, haven’t tried to access it.

e360: One of the points that you also make in the report is that sometimes direct air capture has been put under this rubric of geoengineering, and the report tries to disentangle that. What is the difference between some of these negative emissions technologies and geoengineering?

Pacala: The difference between negative emissions technologies and geoengineering is that negative emissions technologies solve the root cause of the climate problem — too much CO2 in the atmosphere. It simply takes out that CO2. Geoengineering says, “Oh, that CO2 in the atmosphere is changing the climate, so let me try to change the climate in compensating ways, like by injecting sulfate aerosols high in the atmosphere to intersect some of the sunlight to cool the planet down.” The problem is, of course, that we can’t compensate exactly for the C02, so we create other problems when we do that. Moreover, if you keep putting more and more CO2 in the atmosphere, you have to keep adding these geoengineering compounds to the atmosphere to compensate. It’s very much the difference between solving the root cause and trying to compensate for symptoms.



e360: Another point the report makes is that the Trump administration is in the process of revoking the Clean Power Plan, of pulling back on vehicle fuel efficiency standards. This seems like another disconnect.

Pacala: Well, the U.S. is of course a very special case right now internationally. It has decided to take a non-evidence based approach to dealing with the climate problem, and it’s something that in my view is a national disgrace. It’s something that we are going to end up correcting as a people. The ongoing denials of the science, particularly in Republican Party circles, are just something that true conservatives wouldn’t condone. Business people make evidence-based decisions — they have to or they don’t survive.

Full article:

https://e360.yale.edu/features/negative-emissions-is-it-feasible-to-remove-co2-from-the-air

Elizabeth Kolbert is a regular contributor to Yale Environment 360 and has been a staff writer for the New Yorker since 1999. Her most recent book, "The Sixth Extinction: An Unnatural History," won the 2015 Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction and was based in part on reporting she did for Yale Environment 360.


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

 

+-Recent Topics

Future Earth by AGelbert
March 30, 2022, 12:39:42 pm

Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF by AGelbert
March 29, 2022, 08:20:56 pm

The Big Picture of Renewable Energy Growth by AGelbert
March 28, 2022, 01:12:42 pm

Electric Vehicles by AGelbert
March 27, 2022, 02:27:28 pm

Heat Pumps by AGelbert
March 26, 2022, 03:54:43 pm

Defending Wildlife by AGelbert
March 25, 2022, 02:04:23 pm

The Koch Brothers Exposed! by AGelbert
March 25, 2022, 01:26:11 pm

Corruption in Government by AGelbert
March 25, 2022, 12:46:08 pm

Books and Audio Books that may interest you 🧐 by AGelbert
March 24, 2022, 04:28:56 pm

COVID-19 🏴☠️ Pandemic by AGelbert
March 23, 2022, 12:14:36 pm