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Author Topic: Intelligence  (Read 985 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: Intelligence
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 01:58:46 pm »

I watched the video, I had seen something like it before anyway, and I don't remember anything like that being discussed.  Adaptation to change, with the existing DNA, is not evolution.  The intelligence was always potentially there. So there was no "development of intelligence".  Since all octopuses were found to have this intelligence, there would be no relatively successful smart octopuses to have a new generation of smarter octopuses.

I  think the answer is that no environment has turned up which makes smartness more successful, so evolution hasn't had anything to work with.


Well, you have a bad memory.

Quote
Adaptation to change, with the existing DNA, is not evolution.

Yeah, that's what I said. Is there an echo in here?

Quote
The intelligence was always potentially there. So there was no "development of intelligence".

Yes there was  ;D. Octopuses living in groups are learning from older octopuses. The experiments proved tey ARE getting smarter. But, I can understand your Neo-Darwinian standard for "smarter" REQUIRES new DNA passed on to a subsequent generation for that to be the "real deal", so to speak. You refuse to accept the SAME DNA package can produce smarter octpopuses. So, you come up with the following Syllogistic statement to defend your "evolution is the only solution" Procrustean Bed.

Quote
Since all octopuses were found to have this intelligence, there would be no relatively successful smart octopuses to have a new generation of smarter octopuses.

A Procrustean bed is an arbitrary standard to which exact conformity is forced. In Edgar Allan Poe's influential crime story "The Purloined Letter" (1844), the private detective Dupin uses the metaphor of a Procrustean bed to describe the Parisian police's overly rigid method of looking for clues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes

Again, you missed the entire point of the observations in the video. Octopuses are typically loners. The octopuses observed are NOW living in grooups, something they never have been previously observed to do. This enables the young octopuses to learn from the older, more experienced ones, something that has hitherto not been possible because a female octopus dies as soon as her brood can swim. Thus they have ALWAYS relied totally on instinct to hunt and hide.

NOW, things are changing. NOW the young octopuses, which are GENETICALLY IDENTICAL to the previous ones that did not live in groups, are showing EVIDENCE of increased intelligence in prey seeking ability.

Tell me, Palloy, why do you have such difficulty grasping non-evolutionary adaptation concepts?

Quote
Palloy: ... evolution hasn't had anything to work with


Poor Mr. "Evolution". Your god hasn't had "anything to work with". How amazingly presumptive, as well as reductionist, of you to ASS-U-ME that the only possible explanation for a new "evolutionary" ;)  advantage a species obtains, such as added intelligence,  is "evolution".

Sir, you are STUCK in a neo-Darwinian mental straight jacket that refuses to accept that a pre-existing functional bit of DNA coding can be activated by new environmental stresses.  👎 👎 👎

As usual, you are parroting the "evolution solution" mantra that will not accept a new advantage is real unless said advantage has been proven to be passed onto the offspring in the form of a mutation. It is simply impossible for you to accept that a new advantage DOES NOT have to be "passed on", because it was latently THERE and ALREADY being passed on, in the original DNA package.

Your tired "the ones who don't have it die off and the ones who have it dominate" does not apply here simply because the less social octopuses that don't learn from the more experienced octopuses are genetically identical to the ones that DO learn and dominate.

I remember when my Zoology Prof calmly stated that a crocodile having two penises was an "evolutionary advantage". That was the best joke I had heard in a long time. But, you    probably cannot figure out why I think that is so funny, can you?  :D
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

 

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