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Author Topic: Mechanisms of Prejudice: Hidden and Not Hidden  (Read 18115 times)

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AGelbert

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He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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This is what 'black privilege' looks like


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/15/1402524/-This-is-what-black-privilege-looks-like

Holy Bleeding S h I t! That is magnificent, AG. Deeply moving.

Most here won't watch it. I consider myself fortunate that I did.

This spoken word poetry slam stuff can sometimes catch you with a swift uppercut for a knockout, like this. I refer you to the work of Agnes Torok.


Agnes gets it. Such an eloquent and brave exposure of the reality of the cruelty of capitalism needs to be shouted from the rooftops!

Thank you. I just chanced on it. I can never stop admiring Blacks for all the S H I T they go through. Sure, I've been dealing with that prejudice crap all my life. BUT, at least in public I have been able to "pass". I have never had to deal with the fecal effluent of sardonic and cruel hate mocking most Blacks have to deal with. I don't think I could have handled it without going postal. But, who knows? God often provides strength when we feel we have none.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Idaho company defends using blatantly racist imagery on its trucks 

By wagatwe   

Tuesday Apr 25, 2017 ·  1:36 PM EDT

SNIPPET:

It’s common knowledge that depicting Black people with watermelon—or even just insinuating that we love to eat it—is racially insensitive at best. If you’re unfamiliar with the reasons why watermelon became such an awful symbol of hatred and oppression, I recommend this piece from the Atlantic (emphasis mine):

Quote
But the stereotype that African Americans are excessively fond of watermelon emerged for a specific historical reason and served a specific political purpose. The trope came into full force when slaves won their emancipation during the Civil War. Free black people grew, ate, and sold watermelons, and in doing so made the fruit a symbol of their freedom. Southern whites, threatened by blacks’ newfound freedom, responded by making the fruit a symbol of black people’s perceived uncleanliness, laziness, childishness, and unwanted public presence. This racist trope then exploded in American popular culture, becoming so pervasive that its historical origin became obscure. Few Americans in 1900 would’ve guessed the stereotype was less than half a century old.

But like any good, ol’ racist, Dixie Services owner Valentine wouldn’t let something like history or facts to ruin his racist fun. ABC affiliate KXLY reports reveals that he’s just as clueless as you’d expect (or perhaps he’s just pretending to be):



http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/4/25/1655943/-Idaho-company-defends-using-blatantly-racist-imagery-on-its-trucks
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Trial and Terror

The U.S. government has prosecuted 796 people for terrorism since the 9/11 attacks. Most of them never even got close to committing an act of violence. 

Data last updated on April 20, 2017

SNIPPET:

The U.S. government segregates terrorism cases into two categories — domestic and international. This database contains cases classified as international terrorism, though many of the people charged never left the United States or communicated with anyone outside the country.

Since the 9/11 attacks, most of the 796 terrorism defendants prosecuted by the U.S. Department of Justice have been charged with material support for terrorism, criminal conspiracy, immigration violations, or making false statements — vague, nonviolent offenses that give prosecutors wide latitude for scoring quick convictions or plea bargains. 523 defendants have pleaded guilty to charges, while the courts found 175 guilty at trial. Just 2 have been acquitted and 3 have seen their charges dropped or dismissed, giving the Justice Department a near-perfect record of conviction in terrorism cases.

Today, 345 people charged with terrorism-related offenses are in custody in the United States, including 58 defendants who are awaiting trial and remain innocent until proven guilty.

Very few terrorism defendants had the means or opportunity to commit an act of violence. The majority had no direct connection to terrorist organizations. Many were caught up in FBI stings, in which an informant or undercover agent posed as a member of a terrorist organization. The U.S. government nevertheless defines such cases as international terrorism.

415 terrorism defendants have been released from custody, often with no provision for supervision or ongoing surveillance, suggesting that the government does not regard them as imminent threats to the homeland.

A large proportion of the defendants who did have direct connections to terrorist groups were recruited as informants or cooperating witnesses and served little or no time in prison. At present, there have been 32 such cooperators. By contrast, many of the 296 defendants caught up in FBI stings have received decades in prison because they had no information or testimony to trade. They simply didn’t know any terrorists.



https://trial-and-terror.theintercept.com/

 


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Whatever services Dixie offers I'd take my business elsewhere.  The customers are the problem, not the idiot businessman.  In a just world he would have his free speech but no income.

The very LEAST a person must do is not take their business to that racist scum. If you think this is just about business behavior and free speech, you do not want to deal with the harm that sardonic, cruel, mocking and demeaning racist bullshit does to degrade the fabric of human society.

Racism, like unregulated Capitalism, IS CRIMINAL! And it is NOT a victimless crime!


This is what 'black privilege' looks like


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/15/1402524/-This-is-what-black-privilege-looks-like

Holy Bleeding S h I t! That is magnificent, AG. Deeply moving.

Most here won't watch it. I consider myself fortunate that I did.

This spoken word poetry slam stuff can sometimes catch you with a swift uppercut for a knockout, like this. I refer you to the work of Agnes Torok.



Agnes gets it. Such an eloquent and brave exposure of the reality of the cruelty of capitalism needs to be shouted from the rooftops!

Thank you. I just chanced on it. I can never stop admiring Blacks for all the S H I T they go through. Sure, I've been dealing with that prejudice crap all my life. BUT, at least in public I have been able to "pass". I have never had to deal with the fecal effluent of sardonic and cruel hate mocking most Blacks have to deal with. I don't think I could have handled it without going postal. But, who knows? God often provides strength when we feel we have none.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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TRUMP, WHAT are you and Sessions DOING to DECENT, HARD WORKING, TAX PAYING PEOPLE!?? 


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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100 YEARS of USING Puerto Rico for cannon fodder, only to try to deport one now!

Here's a history lesson for you.

100 years ago the US President, who had campaigned on keeping the US OUT of the war, was actively planning to get the US INTO WWI. But they needed cannon fodder for that "war to end all wars".

By an amazing coincidence, the Jones–Shafroth Act made the people of Puerto Rico into "US Citizens" (who could NOT elect their own governor or vote in presidential elections - but COULD "serve in the military" LOL!). And almost immediately after that, the US entered WWI.

"On March 2, 1917, the Jones–Shafroth Act was signed, collectively making Puerto Ricans United States citizens without rescinding their Puerto Rican citizenship."

"On April 6, 1917, the U.S. joined its allies--Britain, France, and Russia--to fight in World War I. Under the command of Major General John J. Pershing, more than 2 million U.S. soldiers fought on battlefields in France. Many Americans were not in favor of the U.S. entering the war and wanted to remain neutral."

The IRONY of all this is that recently Trump's ICE tried to DEPORT a Puerto Rican to Mexico! It's BIGOTRY and RACISM, pure and simple, that most Americans do not want to admit is behind all this "property rights" and "border control" BULLSHIT, never mind the hypocrisy of sucking up cannon fodder hither and yon, only to double cross them later.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/ice_reportedly_detains_undocumented_immigrant_on_his_18th_birthday_20170429


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Jeff Sessions is no Confederate General, even though he might be named for one.

Conflating the likes of him with real dead war heroes is the kind of senseless re-organization of facts, feelings and bullshit  that has resulted in the false narrative that passes for Civil War history.

No one who didn't live in the South during Reconstruction can really understand why all those monuments were built. The people who built them are all dead, and the people who have a problem with them are completely clueless as to why they exist. Certainly, some unemployed Hollywood writer with a Twitter account  like Tom Ceraulo, has no standing when it comes to weighing in on the subject.

Like you do? You lived through reconstruction?

Part of the perpetuation of the mystique with all things Confederate is the endless romanticization of the "Lost Cause" by generations of writers who have lobbied in the courts of public opinion for what they could not win on the battlefield. Not having it.

Let us be **** clear. Allow me to acquaint you with VP of the Confederacy Alexander Stephens and his Cornerstone Speech, which became so known for Stephens's declaration that the perpetuation of slavery was the principal goal and purpose of the secession and the Confederacy:

"Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Here’s what William Thompson said about the Confederate flag, and we should listen, since he was the one who created not only its design but its symbolism and purpose. Here he is quoted in the book Our Flag, by George Preble:


As a people we are fighting to maintain the heavenly ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.

Confederate monuments should be relocated to museums or memorial parks. They, like the battle flag, offend the living f u c k out of me.

     
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Holy ****.

This turned up in my Twitter feed, then I went to the photojournalist's blog.

ANTI FASCIST PROTEST OF WHITE SUPREMACIST RALLY IN PIKEVILLE, KENTUCKY

There is a writer named Elizabeth Mika who has come closest I have found to nailing this phenomenon:

It is no accident that the most enthusiastic Trumpists can be found among the manospherians, alt-righters and neo-Nazis: white men (usually) with a deficient conscience and a permanent sense of hurt and their own, so far unrecognized (but that’s gonna change soon!), specialness. They feel victimized by their own fears, at least some of which come from having to share the planet and human rights with the groups that were previously denied them, something they consider both a personal insult and grave threat to their existence. These are the men who live with the specter of white genocide taking place under the feminazi totalitarianism, in their minds already in progress in America. They come from among the spite voters, a large and largely unrecognized voting bloc brilliantly described by Mark Ames — in 2004 — as affected with the Middle American malice:

Spite voting is mostly a white male phenomenon, which is why a majority of white males vote Republican. It comes from a toxic mix of thwarted expectations, cowardice, shame, and a particular strain of anomie that is unique to the white American male experience.

More here:
https://medium.com/@Elamika/trumpian-victory-or-the-avengers-fractured-song-6ebe51aa0cc9


Thank you for this article. The issue of the REALITY of racism that NEVER WENT AWAY in the South is something most white Southerners just cannot accept as anything other than "liberal" or "leftist" propaganda.

Here is a snippet of a scientific study that confirms the worse fears about the continuing systemic nature of the racist culture in the South (of course we have it in the north too, but NOT to the same level of entrenchment).
 
Other People’s Racism: Race, Rednecks, and Riots in a Southern High School

Jessica Halliday Hardie1 and Karolyn Tyson2

Abstract

This article uses data drawn from nine months of fieldwork and student, teacher, and administrator interviews at a southern high school to analyze school racial conflict and the construction of racism. We find that institutional inequalities that stratify students by race and class are routinely ignored by school actors who, we argue, use the presence of so-called redneck students to plausibly deny racism while furthering the standard definition of racism as blatant prejudice and an individual trait. The historical prominence of rednecks as a southern cultural identity augments these claims, leading to an implicit division of school actors into friendly/nonracist and unfriendly/racist and allowing school actors to set boundaries on the meaning of racism. Yet these rhetorical practices and the institutional structures they mask contributed to racial tensions, culminating in a race riot during our time at the school.

Keywords: race, high schools, tracking, qualitative, racism


The week of February 5, 2007, may have been like any other at North Carolina’s Cordington High School had it not been for the race riot. According to student and teacher accounts, it began early in the week when a black student overheard a white “redneck” student say, “Let’s go lynch some ‘n*****s.”’1 Subsequently, rumors spread, first that the redneck students were planning to jump a black student in the hallway and then that a black male was going to bring a gun to school. Sheriff’s deputies were called in, and teachers were put on high alert. As stories of a major fight between rednecks and blacks and plans to “shoot up the school” circulated, tensions mounted. School officials attempted to quell fears by identifying and punishing the students involved in the incident (both redneck and black students) and using the automated telephone messaging system to inform parents that the incident had been resolved and everything was “under control.” Still, three days after the initial incident, on the Friday on which the rumored confrontation between blacks and whites was to occur, more than half the students skipped school or were kept home by their parents. Although there was no evidence that any physical fights or violence actually occurred on or away from school grounds as a result of the incident, it was nonetheless variously referred to by students and faculty during informal conversations and interviews as a “riot,” “race riot,” “redneck riot,” and “brawl.”

This incident, which occurred while we were conducting a study examining how law and authority affect school actors at more than 20 schools, brought into stark relief the unfinished business of racial reconciliation in the South. The southern United States is an important region in which to study race relations among youth and school racial conflict. Racial confrontations occur regularly in schools across the country, but the one that occurred in North Carolina involved symbols of racism and racial violence and intimidation tied to the Old South. Nor was it the only incident of racial unrest we heard about during our research. At another North Carolina high school, we learned from students and administrators about a race riot (this one with actual fighting) triggered by tensions about Confederate clothing worn by rednecks (as they were called by other students and faculty alike) and counter-Confederate clothing (declaring that the South will never rise again) worn by blacks in response.2 School officials also reported a dispute about a Confederate flag at Cordington a few years prior to our study. Similar to the incident in Jena, Louisiana, in 2007, in which a vicious fight broke out between black and white students after nooses were found hanging from a tree in the schoolyard,3 these incidents highlight the endurance of racist symbols and racial hostility between blacks and whites in the South. Yet unlike the Jena case, most racial incidents receive little attention outside of the communities in which they take place, leaving few opportunities for systematic analysis of the underlying factors and meaning making surrounding these conflicts.

Furthermore, most recent studies documenting racial tensions and fights among students were conducted in ethnically and racially diverse schools in the West and Northeast (e.g., Bettie 2003; Lee 1996; Morrill and Musheno 2009; Perry 2002; Staiger 2006). In those accounts, the group conflicts were usually between two or more nonwhite groups, reflecting the changing demographics of those regions. The South presents a different landscape. Despite large-scale demographic shifts introducing Hispanic migrants (Lippard and Gallagher 2011; Wahl and Gunkel 2007), blacks and whites still make up the vast majority of the population in North Carolina, at 22 and 65 percent, respectively (U.S. Census 2011).4 Moreover, cultural symbols and images (e.g., nooses, lynching, Confederate flags) of the old slave-holding and segregated South dot the landscape of North Carolina. Schools are no exception. Indeed, some of these symbols, particularly the Confederate flag, were ever present at Cordington and the cause of much tension. This context is important because it presents a unique opportunity to examine racial dynamics in an environment of blatant, overt racism, which is less common today than in the past. Few contemporary studies have assessed how these dynamics play out in schools in the South. Thus, we heed Morris and Monroe’s (2009) call for more attention to place in social science research, particularly as it relates to the educational experience.

In this article, we examine the social and institutional factors that make race meaningful for youth in schools and how they contribute to racial hostility and conflict. We are particularly interested in how school actors construct and respond to racism. At Cordington, issues of race and racism were apparent throughout the school in observations and formal and informal interviews before and after the riot; thus, the incident is just a touchstone for examining these issues. We find that as in other parts of the country, institutional practices (e.g., tracking) and the social organization of students (i.e., cliques) strengthen racial and class identities within schools. However, the presence of southern rednecks, a group historically defined as synonymous with racism, serves an important ideological function. While redneck students clearly contributed to racial hostilities at Cordington, this population of students was frequently cast as the only culprit of racism at the school. This communicated a shared understanding of racism as an individual trait and overt action. However, as conceptualized by Bonilla-Silva (1997; 2003) and others (Chesler, Lewis, and Crowfoot 2005; Wellman 1994), racism is an ideology that supports a racialized social system that rewards racial groups unequally across a number of domains. Such a system was evident at Cordington in tracking and, according to students of color, disciplinary practices, yet school actors ignored the symptoms of racism and the racialized social structure in favor of placing the blame for racism on the rednecks. Thus, not only could others point to rednecks to deny any racism on their own part (e.g., “I’m not like that”), but the group’s behavior also drew attention away from and helped mask racist structures within the school. In total, both the blatant aggression of the rednecks and the more passive, but powerful, institutionalized racial structure contributed to racial inequality at Cordington.

We argue that similar to test scores and other evaluative criteria to which Americans often point to deny structural components of racial inequality, Cordington’s rednecks were a means to “plausibly deny” racism (Liu and Mills 2006; van Dijk 1992). Our findings show that “plausible deniability of racism” is achieved not only through discourse, as in “the rhetorical moves” speakers use to defend their words as not racist, as European and Oceanic scholars have found (Liu and Mills 2006:83; Simmons and Lecouter 2008), but through objects as well, things or people to which one can point to provide a plausible alternative explanation to institutional racism or to deflect charges of individual racism.

THEORETICAL BACKGROUND

Continue reading a truly objective analysis of Southern systemic racism at link:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662232/

Agelbert NOTE: IOW, it's NOT "just the rednecks". It's the SYSTEMIC INSTITUTIONALIZED RACISM! The rednecks are just the EXCUSE the educated BIGOTS use to disingenuously make the following claim over and over:

Quote
"Only ignorant and low IQ rednecks AND blacks engage in racism".


 

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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100 YEARS of USING Puerto Rico for cannon fodder, only to try to deport one now!

Here's a history lesson for you.

100 years ago the US President, who had campaigned on keeping the US OUT of the war, was actively planning to get the US INTO WWI. But they needed cannon fodder for that "war to end all wars".

By an amazing coincidence, the Jones–Shafroth Act made the people of Puerto Rico into "US Citizens" (who could NOT elect their own governor or vote in presidential elections - but COULD "serve in the military" LOL!). And almost immediately after that, the US entered WWI.

"On March 2, 1917, the Jones–Shafroth Act was signed, collectively making Puerto Ricans United States citizens without rescinding their Puerto Rican citizenship."

"On April 6, 1917, the U.S. joined its allies--Britain, France, and Russia--to fight in World War I. Under the command of Major General John J. Pershing, more than 2 million U.S. soldiers fought on battlefields in France. Many Americans were not in favor of the U.S. entering the war and wanted to remain neutral."

The IRONY of all this is that recently Trump's ICE tried to DEPORT a Puerto Rican to Mexico! It's BIGOTRY and RACISM, pure and simple, that most Americans do not want to admit is behind all this "property rights" and "border control" BULLSHIT, never mind the hypocrisy of sucking up cannon fodder hither and yon, only to double cross them later.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/ice_reportedly_detains_undocumented_immigrant_on_his_18th_birthday_20170429


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Jeff Sessions is no Confederate General, even though he might be named for one.

Conflating the likes of him with real dead war heroes is the kind of senseless re-organization of facts, feelings and bullshit  that has resulted in the false narrative that passes for Civil War history.

No one who didn't live in the South during Reconstruction can really understand why all those monuments were built. The people who built them are all dead, and the people who have a problem with them are completely clueless as to why they exist. Certainly, some unemployed Hollywood writer with a Twitter account  like Tom Ceraulo, has no standing when it comes to weighing in on the subject.

Like you do? You lived through reconstruction?

Part of the perpetuation of the mystique with all things Confederate is the endless romanticization of the "Lost Cause" by generations of writers who have lobbied in the courts of public opinion for what they could not win on the battlefield. Not having it.

Let us be **** clear. Allow me to acquaint you with VP of the Confederacy Alexander Stephens and his Cornerstone Speech, which became so known for Stephens's declaration that the perpetuation of slavery was the principal goal and purpose of the secession and the Confederacy:

"Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Here’s what William Thompson said about the Confederate flag, and we should listen, since he was the one who created not only its design but its symbolism and purpose. Here he is quoted in the book Our Flag, by George Preble:


As a people we are fighting to maintain the heavenly ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.

Confederate monuments should be relocated to museums or memorial parks. They, like the battle flag, offend the living fu ck out of me.

     

My great great grandfather fought for the 22nd South Carolina volunteers. In my recent research into his story, I discovered that the 22nd, which was mustered in 1861 in Columbia SC, started out with 1100 men. At Appomattox,where they were present when Lee surrendered, there remained 77. By my math, that's 93% killed in battle.

I don't think that there is anything particularly unusual that the families of those men, who died everywhere from Antietam to Vicksburg and all points in between, thought it was appropriate to build monuments to their ultimate sacrifice.  It had little to do, imho, with **** like Alexander Stephens, who was one of about fifty or so wealthy slave owners who agitated aggressively and successfully to push the South into war.  Those who died were mostly pioneer farm boys like my ancestor, led mostly by men a few years older who had served the country honorably in the Mexican War.

We live in a different time, and what you two (and many others) find offensive about Confederate monuments, has more to do with your own experience around civil rights, the 1960's, and the modern concepts of what is and isn't politically correct, than it does about why those monuments were built, which was all about expressing grief, loss and paying homage to brave men and boys who died young (my gg grandfather was in his early 30's and left four war orphans and a widow).  Do I give a flying **** how you feel about the Civil War? Not much. It has affected my family directly for four generations. Neither of you has a clue. I was not there, but I have some insight, I believe, based on what really went down, as opposed to the rhetoric.

Does any of this matter anymore? Not so much. It's just more ancient history to re-write, to distort, and to use to push whatever your personal and political agendas are with regards to racial equality and ethnic diversity, and fairness. Others use it to rationalize the gutting of states rights that changed this country forever, and made it into what it is now, a top-down federal plutocracy run by the rich for the benefit of the rich.

Don't worry. The PC Police are going to tear down all the statues of Confederate Generals, wherever they exist. Your ignorant asses will be completely vindicated. We can change the world into a brave new place where racial equality reigns supreme, and all God's children can sit down together in harmony, and the Lion will lie down with the Lamb.

And monkeys will fly out of my ass.

Sorry Eddie, but this is NOT about your grandfather; this is about your claim that a Confederate General was somehow NOT a raging bigoted racist like Sessions. Yes, Sessions is an evil SON OF A  B I T C H, but so was AT LEAST ONE former Confederate General that I KNOW OF.

In the year 1600, the island of Puerto Rico had cobblestone roads and a city called San Juan. That was before Jamestown, as you know.

Three hundred years later, in the year 1900, a former confederate General, who had become an influential politician in the U.S., said (when congress discussed whether or not to give Puerto Ricans a Democratic Government rather than a non-elected Governor assigned by the POTUS - which is what was dictated from 1898 to 1948) that people from the Philippines, Cuba and Puerto Rico were (paraphrased- I'll get you the exact quote if you like) TOO SAVAGE TO BE CIVILIZED AND DID NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO GOVERN THEMSELVES.

One of those "savages" was my grandfather. He could read and right, was a Spanish soldier for the very brief "war" and owned and ran a laundry. His father was a shoemaker from Majorca, Spain. He worked hard all his life and never killed anybody.

At the time the literacy rate in Puerto Rico was FAR above that of the average American. We were peaceful and minded our own business. We were invaded for EMPIRE.

Now we could say that that bigoted ass hole who was a former Confederate General was a "product of his times".

But to that I would say that monkeys fly out of my ass too.

I don't honor all the cruelty of the Spanish Empire. I disdain and despise it and take every opportunity to wish they would destroy every statue of Cristofero Columbo and Juan Ponce De Leon that still stands in Puerto Rico.

Just because you have confederate ancestors does not mean the Generals in the Confederacy were not raging racists. They were. We should NOT honor them.

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Jeff Sessions is no Confederate General, even though he might be named for one.

Conflating the likes of him with real dead war heroes is the kind of senseless re-organization of facts, feelings and bullshit  that has resulted in the false narrative that passes for Civil War history.

No one who didn't live in the South during Reconstruction can really understand why all those monuments were built. The people who built them are all dead, and the people who have a problem with them are completely clueless as to why they exist. Certainly, some unemployed Hollywood writer with a Twitter account  like Tom Ceraulo, has no standing when it comes to weighing in on the subject.

Like you do? You lived through reconstruction?

Part of the perpetuation of the mystique with all things Confederate is the endless romanticization of the "Lost Cause" by generations of writers who have lobbied in the courts of public opinion for what they could not win on the battlefield. Not having it.

Let us be **** clear. Allow me to acquaint you with VP of the Confederacy Alexander Stephens and his Cornerstone Speech, which became so known for Stephens's declaration that the perpetuation of slavery was the principal goal and purpose of the secession and the Confederacy:

"Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Here’s what William Thompson said about the Confederate flag, and we should listen, since he was the one who created not only its design but its symbolism and purpose. Here he is quoted in the book Our Flag, by George Preble:


As a people we are fighting to maintain the heavenly ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.

Confederate monuments should be relocated to museums or memorial parks. They, like the battle flag, offend the living **** out of me.

     

My great great grandfather fought for the 22nd South Carolina volunteers. In my recent research into his story, I discovered that the 22nd, which was mustered in 1861 in Columbia SC, started out with 1100 men. At Appomattox,where they were present when Lee surrendered, there remained 77. By my math, that's 93% killed in battle.

I don't think that there is anything particularly unusual that the families of those men, who died everywhere from Antietam to Vicksburg and all points in between, thought it was appropriate to build monuments to their ultimate sacrifice.  It had little to do, imho, with **** like Alexander Stephens, who was one of about fifty or so wealthy slave owners who agitated aggressively and successfully to push the South into war.  Those who died were mostly pioneer farm boys like my ancestor, led mostly by men a few years older who had served the country honorably in the Mexican War.

We live in a different time, and what you two (and many others) find offensive about Confederate monuments, has more to do with your own experience around civil rights, the 1960's, and the modern concepts of what is and isn't politically correct, than it does about why those monuments were built, which was all about expressing grief, loss and paying homage to brave men and boys who died young (my gg grandfather was in his early 30's and left four war orphans and a widow).  Do I give a flying **** how you feel about the Civil War? Not much. It has affected my family directly for four generations. Neither of you has a clue. I was not there, but I have some insight, I believe, based on what really went down, as opposed to the rhetoric.

Does any of this matter anymore? Not so much. It's just more ancient history to re-write, to distort, and to use to push whatever your personal and political agendas are with regards to racial equality and ethnic diversity, and fairness. Others use it to rationalize the gutting of states rights that changed this country forever, and made it into what it is now, a top-down federal plutocracy run by the rich for the benefit of the rich.

Don't worry. The PC Police are going to tear down all the statues of Confederate Generals, wherever they exist. Your ignorant asses will be completely vindicated. We can change the world into a brave new place where racial equality reigns supreme, and all God's children can sit down together in harmony, and the Lion will lie down with the Lamb.

And monkeys will fly out of my ass.

Thanks for another rousing chorus of "heritage, not hate." That puts you squarely in Corey Stewart territory.
And the end of the day, it's what they ALL say.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/nothing-is-worse-virginia-gop-gubernatorial-candidate-defends-white-supremacist-monuments/

The latest version of cracker ass hole we have to deal with in Virginia.

And cue the **** monkeys to start flying out of your ass. After they leave, perhaps you can pound your lion/lamb straw man into the available space.

No one but you fully appreciates the Civil War?

And, I remind you again, the monument that was removed was a memorial to a white insurrection that happened 11 years after the conclusion of the Civil War. A monument to treason. Of course, treason is back in good fashion in the FSoA.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Agelbert said:
Quote
Sorry Eddie, but this is NOT about your grandfather; this is about your claim that a Confederate General was somehow NOT a raging bigoted racist like Sessions. Yes, Sessions is an evil SON OF A  B I T C H, but so was AT LEAST ONE former Confederate General that I KNOW OF.

In the year 1600, the island of Puerto Rico had cobblestone roads and a city called San Juan. That was before Jamestown, as you know.

Three hundred years later, in the year 1900, a former confederate General, who had become an influential politician in the U.S., said (when congress discussed whether or not to give Puerto Ricans a Democratic Government rather than a non-elected Governor assigned by the POTUS - which is what was dictated from 1898 to 1948) that people from the Philippines, Cuba and Puerto Rico were (paraphrased- I'll get you the exact quote if you like) TOO SAVAGE TO BE CIVILIZED AND DID NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO GOVERN THEMSELVES.

One of those "savages" was my grandfather. He could read and right, was a Spanish soldier for the very brief "war" and owned and ran a laundry. His father was a shoemaker from Majorca, Spain. He worked hard all his life and never killed anybody.

At the time the literacy rate in Puerto Rico was FAR above that of the average American. We were peaceful and minded our own business. We were invaded for EMPIRE.

Now we could say that that bigoted ass hole who was a former Confederate General was a "product of his times".

But to that I would say that monkeys fly out of my ass too.

I don't honor all the cruelty of the Spanish Empire. I disdain and despise it and take every opportunity to wish they would destroy every statue of Cristofero Columbo and Juan Ponce De Leon that still stands in Puerto Rico.

Just because you have confederate ancestors does not mean the Generals in the Confederacy were not raging racists. They were. We should NOT honor them.


I made no claim about whether any particular Confederate general was a racist or not a racist.

There were certainly racist Southern generals. In fact there were a good many racist Union generals too. Ever hear of Custer? He fought for the Union. Would you like to hear about his adventures in racial diversity?

However, the vast majority of Southern officers were recruited from the ranks of Mexican War veterans who had served in the US Army 1846-48.  Like my ancestor's commanding officer (and brother-in-law) who was Major Milam Hilton. Mile made it back from the war and lived until 1906, and I believe, led what was left of the family here. He is buried in East Texas.

I made no claim about whether any particular Confederate general was a racist or not a racist.

There were certainly racist Southern generals
.

My friend, I read the following and apparently misinterpreted it as your belief that Confederate Generals (along with monuments in the South honoring their persons and war deeds) were honorable people, unlike Sessions, who you admit IS a racist. 


Jeff Sessions is no Confederate General, even though he might be named for one.

Conflating the likes of him with real dead war heroes ...  ... has resulted in the false narrative that passes for Civil War history.

I am not mocking Confederate Generals as some sort of Jubilation T. Cornpone character that Northerners, every bit as racist in word, if not in deed, as Confederate Generals, go out of their way to lampoon just to push Southerner buttons.

Of course Confederate Generals fought like loyal soldiers to their cause. Their valor in battle is, according to your opinion, the only reason those monuments for them are out there. And, you will be damned if you will ever willingly consent to them being taken down unless every Union monument is destroyed too.

I get it. But those monuments, as is discussed in the scientific study I pointed out to Surly, are a source of symbolic fodder for the continued nonsensical view that any one human race is somehow superior or inferior to another. Any scientist will tell us that is total ass backwards bullshit. Any scientist will tell us that what is disdained as a "mongrel" type human (i.e. Heinz 57 great joke by Northerners AND Southerners about "mixed race" people) is actually genetically more likely to perpetuate his genes than a "pure bred" human whose  family has inbred with those of like appearance for centuries, even if they aren't directly related.

The entire concept of racism is total BULLSHIT. But, to this day, this unscientific baloney pollutes our schools and our culture throughout the world, not just in the USA.

Also, the very concept of Political Correctness is abhorrent to me because it was invented precisely to mask the bigotry of those who go through the non-racist motions but remain as bigoted and racist as ever.

So, yeah, all war monuments should be destroyed. But the Confederate ones have a race thing associated with them that is USED to push racist bullshit, whereas the Northern monuments don't. Around here in Vermont, a war monument is a place for pigeons to decorate with dainty droppings  ;D,  except maybe in Veterans Day.  ::) 

Sure, this country WORSHIPS WAR. That is stupid and wrong. But there is a white supremacist EVIL distinction with a difference that accompanies Southern Civil War monuments. Tearing them down would not desecrate the graves of your Confederate ancestors; it would further the cause of scientific CommonFuckingSense race relations here and abroad.


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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I am not mocking Confederate Generals as some sort of Jubilation T. Cornpone character that Northerners, every bit as racist in word, if not in deed, as Confederate Generals, go out of their way to lampoon just to push Southerner buttons.

Of course Confederate Generals fought like loyal soldiers to their cause. Their valor in battle is, according to your opinion, the only reason those monuments for them are out there. And, you will be damned if you will ever willingly consent to them being taken down unless every Union monument is destroyed too.

I get it. But those monuments, as is discussed in the scientific study I pointed out to Surly, are a source of symbolic fodder for the continued nonsensical view that any one human race is somehow superior or inferior to another. Any scientist will tell us that is total ass backwards bullshit. Any scientist will tell us that what is disdained as a "mongrel" type human (i.e. Heinz 57 great joke by Northerners AND Southerners about "mixed race" people) is actually genetically more likely to perpetuate his genes than a "pure bred" human whose  family has inbred with those of like appearance for centuries, even if they aren't directly related.

The entire concept of racism is total BULLSHIT. But, to this day, this unscientific baloney pollutes our schools and our culture throughout the world, not just in the USA.

Also, the very concept of Political Correctness is abhorrent to me because it was invented precisely to mask the bigotry of those who go through the non-racist motions but remain as bigoted and racist as ever.

So, yeah, all war monuments should be destroyed. But the Confederate ones have a race thing associated with them that is USED to push racist bullshit, whereas the Northern monuments don't. Around here in Vermont, a war monument is a place for pigeons to decorate with dainty droppings  ;D,  except maybe in Veterans Day.  ::) 

Sure, this country WORSHIPS WAR. That is stupid and wrong. But there is a white supremacist EVIL distinction with a difference that accompanies Southern Civil War monuments. Tearing them down would not desecrate the graves of your Confederate ancestors; it would further the cause of scientific CommonFuckingSense race relations here and abroad.


Thank you for your very civil and polite response. I respect your opinion, AG, although I cannot completely agree. Enough said on the subject, as far as I'm concerned.

You are welcome.   


Agreed, this dog subject has been sufficiently severely beat about the head and shoulders for a while.  8)
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Agelbert NOTE: Attorney GENERAL SESSIONS (Forget? Haill!) just ain't got no sense of humor AT ALL. Ah just cain't figure it out. Ah mean, if he's such a non-RACIST 'noble feller' and all, what's he makin' such a fuss about?   ;)  It seems to me that fine lady hit a raw racist nerve or two...  

woman     arrested for laughing during Jeff Sessions' confirmation hearing heads to trial

By wagatwe   

Tuesday May 02, 2017 ·  1:51 PM EDT

Daily Kos Social Recommended

TAGS #DesireeFairooz #FreeSpeech #JeffSessions #Racism #RichardShelby

Desiree Fairooz, a woman who laughed when Republican Senator Richard Shelby (AL) introduced now-Attorney General Jeff Sessions by saying his record of “treating all Americans equally under the law is clear and well-documented,is now on trial for laughing at such a blatant lie. Huffington Post reports:

Fairooz was seated in the back of the room, and her laugh did not interrupt Shelby’s introductory speech. But, according to the government, the laugh amounted to willful “disorderly and disruptive conduct” intended to “impede, disrupt, and disturb the orderly conduct” of congressional proceedings. The government also charged her with a separate misdemeanor for allegedly parading, demonstrating or picketing within a Capitol, evidently for her actions after she was being escorted from the room.

The hypocrisy of the U.S. Capitol Police officer who arrested Fairooz and the prosecutors trying her case is easy to find. Fairooz’s lawyer has footage of other times folks laughed during Sessions’ hearingand didn’t get arrested.

Samuel Bogash, a lawyer representing Fairooz, showed a video of the audience laughing at another part of the hearing, when Sessions joked about disagreements with his wife. But [assistant U.S. attorney Jason] Covert argued that it was appropriate for the audience to laugh when Sessions made a joke about his marriage but not when Shelby claimed Sessions had a long record of “treating all Americans equally.”

If it’s truly about Fairooz’s laughing, then this is completely ridiculous. Where are conservative “free speech” advocates now? Conservatives like to mock liberals for being “special snowflakes” yet they’re throwing down the hammer on someone who wouldn’t politely laugh at the Racist Keebler Elf’s jokes

Watch a video of the arrest below: (at link)

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/5/2/1658198/-Woman-arrested-for-laughing-during-Jeff-Sessions-confirmation-hearing-heads-to-trial


UPDATE as of May 4, 2017:

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/5/3/1658557/-Woman-arrested-for-laughing-during-Sessions-confirmation-found-guilty-facing-a-year-in-prison
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

 

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