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Author Topic: Renewable Hydrogen Power  (Read 1289 times)

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AGelbert

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Renewable Hydrogen Power
« on: June 17, 2016, 03:08:14 pm »
Scientists using sunlight, water to produce renewable hydrogen power

June 16, 2016

Scientists using sunlight, water to produce renewable hydrogen power

UI researchers have developed a small solar-powered electrochemical device that can help make energy using sunlight and water. Credit: Syed Mubeen.

University of Iowa researchers are working with a California-based startup company to make clean energy from sunlight and any source of water.

The university recently renewed a one-year research agreement to further develop the technology with HyperSolar, a company that aims to commercialize low-cost renewable hydrogen.

Hydrogen power is arguably one of the cleanest and greenest energy sources because when it produces energy, the final byproduct is water instead of carbon emissions. Hydrogen power also can be stored in a fuel cell, making it more reliable than traditional solar cells or solar panels, which need regular sunlight to remain "on."

HyperSolar's lead scientist, Syed Mubeen, a chemical engineering professor at the UI, says although hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, the amount of pure hydrogen in the Earth's atmosphere is very low (about 0.00005 percent), so it must be produced artificially.

Currently, most hydrogen power is made from fossil fuels  in a chemical process called steam reforming, which emits carbon dioxide.
Even though the end product is hydrogen, its inputs make it much less environmentally friendly and sustainable.

Hydrogen also can be made using electrolysis, which requires electricity and highly purified water to split water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. Although this is a sustainable process (assuming the electricity is produced from a renewable energy source), the cost of materials associated with the system are expensive—a major barrier to the affordable production of renewable hydrogen.

"Developing clean energy systems is a goal worldwide," Mubeen says. "Currently, we understand how clean energy systems such as solar cells, wind turbines, et cetera, work at a high level of sophistication. The real challenge going forward is to develop inexpensive clean energy systems that can be cost competitive to fossil fuel systems and be adopted globally and not just in the developed countries."

With HyperSolar, Mubeen and his team at the UI's Optical Science and Technology Center are developing a more cost-effective and environmentally friendly way to manufacture hydrogen by drawing inspiration from plants. So far, the researchers have created a small solar-powered electrochemical device that can be placed in any type of water, including seawater and wastewater. When sunlight shines through the water and hits the solar device, the photon energy in sunlight takes the water (a lower energy state) and converts it to hydrogen (a higher energy state), where it can be stored like a battery. The energy is harvested when the hydrogen is converted back into its lower energy state: water. This is similar to what plants do using photosynthesis, during which plants use photons from the sun to convert water and carbon dioxide into carbohydrates—some of which are stored in fruits and roots for later use.

Mubeen says his team is currently working to lower costs even further and to make their process more robust so it can be produced on a mass scale. That way, it eventually could be used as renewable electricity or to power hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

"Although H2 can be used in many forms, the immediate possibility of this renewable H2 would be for use in fuel cells to generate electricity or react with CO2 to form liquid fuels like methanol for the transportation sector," he says. "If one could develop these systems at costs competitive  ;) to fossil fuel systems , then it would be a home run."

Explore further: Research sets new record for generation of fuels from sunlight

Provided by: University of Iowa search and more info website

http://phys.org/news/2016-06-scientists-sunlight-renewable-hydrogen-power.html#jCp

Agelbert NOTE: Did you read that bit about how most hydrogen is made from fossil fuels with steam forming? Here is something you should know about steam forming, from an ERoEi standpoint:

Quote
Hydrogen can also be extracted from hydrocarbons by reforming. This chemical process is, in principle, an energy transfer process. The HHV energy contained in the original substance can be transferred to the HHV energy of hydrogen.

Theoretically  ;D
, no external energy is needed to convert a hydrogen-rich energy carrier like methane (CH4) or methanol (CH3OH) into hydrogen by autothermal steam reforming.

But in reality  ;D, thermal losses cannot be avoided and the HHV energy content of the original hydrocarbon fuel always exceeds the HHV energy contained in the generated hydrogen.

The efficiency of hydrogen production by reforming is about 90%. Consequently, more CO2 is released by this "detour" process than by direct use of the hydrocarbon precursors. But no obvious advantages can be derived with respect to well-to-wheel efficiency and overall CO2 emissions.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/pdfs/hyd_economy_bossel_eliasson.pdf

The only reason electrolysis, a truly clean way to generate Hydrogen, is more expensive than steam forming, is because of fossil fuel subsidies, NOT because of Energy Return on Energy Invested (ERoEI) thermodynamics.

If the fossil fuel direct and indirect subsidies were eliminated (even excluding the pollution costs), fossil fuel systems would not be cost competitive with ANY Renewable Energy system.

Hydrogen power just needs the subsidy push that the fossil fuel industry has always used to make its products be artificially cost competitive with Renewable Energy technologies and products, such as Ethanol from biomass.

In addition to Hydrogen production, the fossil fuel industry also produces about 5% of the world's ethanol. This ethanol takes far more energy to produce than biomass ethanol. But once again, the unwarranted subsidies of the fossil fuel industry enable it to produce a "cost competitive" ethanol, unjustified from a thermodynamiics standpoint.

Biomass ethanol, unlike fossil fuel industry ethanol, is justified from a thermodynamics standpoint. Producing hydrogen or ethanol using fossil fuels is totally unjustified.

Subsidies for clean hydrogen production, like the photon mediated production portrayed in the above article or electrolysis and biomass based ethanol production are justified when all the energy and pollution costs are considered.   

Quote
Between 1968 and 2000, oil companies received subsidies of $149.6 billion, compared to ethanol’s paltry $116.6 million. The subsidies alcohol did receive have worked extremely well in bringing maturity to the industry. Farmer-owned cooperatives now produce the majority of alcohol fuel in the U.S. Farmer-owners pay themselves premium prices for their corn and then pay themselves a dividend on the alcohol profit.

The increased economic activity derived from alcohol fuel production has turned out to be crucial to the survival of noncorporate farmers, and the amounts of money they spend in their communities on goods and services and taxes for schools have been much higher in areas with an ethanol plant. Plus, between $3 and $6 in tax receipts are generated for every dollar of ethanol subsidy. The rate of return can be much higher in rural communities, where re-spending within the community produces a multiplier factor of up to 22 times for each alcohol fuel subsidy dollar.

http://www.permaculture.com/node/490

We need fossil fuels like a hole in our wallet.

 

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2016, 07:42:16 pm »
clean hydrogen and rechargable zinc batteries       
June 17, 2016
Stanford researchers find new ways to make clean hydrogen and rechargable zinc batteries
Stanford engineers created arrays of silicon nanocones to trap sunlight and improve the performance of solar cells made of bismuth vanadate (1μm=1,000 nanometers). Credit: Wei Chen and Yongcai Qiu, Stanford

A Stanford University research lab has developed new technologies to tackle two of the world's biggest energy challenges - clean fuel for transportation and grid-scale energy storage.

The researchers described their findings in two studies published this month in the journals Science Advances and Nature Communications.


Hydrogen fuel

Hydrogen fuel has long been touted as a clean alternative to gasoline. Automakers began offering hydrogen-powered cars to American consumers last year, but only a handful have sold, mainly because hydrogen refueling stations are few and far between.

"Millions of cars could be powered by clean hydrogen fuel if it were cheap and widely available," said Yi Cui, an associate professor of materials science and engineering at Stanford.

Unlike gasoline-powered vehicles, which emit carbon dioxide (CO2), hydrogen cars themselves are emissions free. Making hydrogen fuel, however, is not emission free: today, making most hydrogen fuel involves natural gas in a process that releases CO2 into the atmosphere. *

To address the problem, Cui and his colleagues have focused on photovoltaic water splitting. This emerging technology consists of a solar-powered electrode immersed in water. When sunlight hits the electrode, it generates an electric current that splits the water into its constituent parts, hydrogen and oxygen.

Finding an affordable way to produce clean hydrogen from water has been a challenge. Conventional solar electrodes made of silicon quickly corrode when exposed to oxygen, a key byproduct of water splitting. Several research teams have reduced corrosion by coating the silicon with iridium and other precious metals.

Writing in the June 17 edition of Science Advances, Cui and his colleagues presented a new approach using bismuth vanadate, an inexpensive compound that absorbs sunlight and generates modest amounts of electricity.

"Bismuth vanadate has been widely regarded as a promising material for photoelectrochemical water splitting, in part because of its low cost and high stability against corrosion," said Cui, an associate professor of photon science at the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory. "However, the performance of this material remains well below its theoretical solar-to-hydrogen conversion efficiency."

 
Bismuth vanadate absorbs light but is a poor conductor of electricity. To carry a current, a solar cell made of bismuth vanadate must be sliced very thin, 200 nanometers or less, making it virtually transparent. As a result, visible light that could be used to generate electricity simply passes through the cell.

To capture sunlight before it escapes, Cui's team turned to nanotechnology. The researchers created microscopic arrays containing thousands of silicon nanocones, each about 600 nanometers tall.

Left (a): A conventional zinc (Zn) battery short circuits when dendrites growing on the zinc anode make contact with the metal cathode. Right (b): Stanford scientists redesigned the battery using plastic and carbon insulators to prevent zinc dendrites from reaching the cathode. Credit: Shougo Higashi

"Nanocone structures have shown a promising light-trapping capability over a broad range of wavelengths," Cui explained. "Each cone is optimally shaped to capture sunlight that would otherwise pass through the thin solar cell."

In the experiment, Cui and his colleagues deposited the nanocone arrays on a thin film of bismuth vanadate. Both layers were then placed on a solar cell made of perovskite, another promising photovoltaic material.

When submerged, the three-layer tandem device immediately began splitting water at a solar-to-hydrogen conversion efficiency of 6.2 percent, already matching the theoretical maximum rate for a bismuth vanadate cell.

"The tandem solar cell continued generating hydrogen for more than 10 hours, an indication of good stability," said Cui, a principal investigator at the Stanford Institute for Materials and Energy Sciences. "Although the efficiency we demonstrated was only 6.2 percent, our tandem device has room for significant improvement in the future."

Rechargeable zinc battery

In a second study published in the June 6 edition of Nature Communications, Cui and Shougo Higashi, a visiting scientist from Toyota Central R&D Labs Inc., proposed a new battery design that could help solve the problem of grid-scale energy storage.

"Solar and wind farms should be able to provide around-the-clock energy for the electric grid, even when there's no sunlight or wind," Cui said. "That will require inexpensive batteries and other low-cost technologies big enough to store surplus clean energy for use on demand."

In the study, Cui, Higashi and their co-workers designed a novel battery with electrodes made of zinc and nickel, inexpensive metals with the potential for grid-scale storage.

A variety of zinc-metal batteries are available commercially, but few are rechargeable, because of tiny fibers called dendrites that form on the zinc electrode during charging. Theses dendrites can grow until they finally reach the nickel electrode, causing the battery to short circuit and fail.

The research team solved the dendrite problem by simply redesigning the battery. Instead of having the zinc and nickel electrodes face one another, as in a conventional battery, the researchers separated them with a plastic insulator and wrapped a carbon insulator around the edges of the zinc electrode.

"With our design, zinc ions are reduced and deposited on the exposed back surface of the zinc electrode during charging," said Higashi, lead author of the study. "Therefore, even if zinc dendrites form, they will grow away from the nickel electrode and will not short the battery."

To demonstrate stability, the researchers successfully charged and discharged the battery more than 800 times without shorting.

"Our design is very simple and could be applied to a wide range of metal batteries," Cui said.

Explore further: Researchers create a low-cost, long-lasting water splitter made of silicon and nickel
More information: Efficient solar-driven water splitting by nanocone BiVO4-perovskite tandem cells, Science Advances, DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.1501764
Journal reference: Science Advances search and more info website Nature Communications search and more info website
Provided by: Stanford University search and more info website


http://phys.org/news/2016-06-ways-hydrogen-rechargable-zinc-batteries.html

* This is known as Steam Forming and has a NEGATIVE ERoEI. It is stupid but fossil fuel industry subsidies make it "cost effective", just like the insanely stupid negative ERoEI activity of making about 5% of the world's Ethanol using fossil fuel feed stock. 

I applaud the new technology discussed in the above article.  But expect the fossil fuel industry to make their typical claim that "it's a great idea, but not ready for prime time  " as an excuse to continue to justify the polluting gasoline powered status quo as a "necessary" evil (when they aren't touting it as the savior of humanity, that is). 

The fact is that Hydrogen fuel for vehicles has been ready for prime time for over 50 YEARS.    Mormon farmers have been running their tractors on it for at least that long.

While it is true that storing hydrogen, AS A GAS, is tough and energy intensive, "storing" it as WATER, to be used when you need it for a few hours from a solar powered electrolyzer, is old hat, as long as the sun comes out that day. ;D

It's BULLSHIT to claim well insulated low temperature hydrogen fuel tanks could not have been mass produced and economically iincorporated into our vehicles by a country that pioneered the technology for ICBMS, hydrogen bombs and the space shuttle. 

And furthermore, if the nukers had allowed a certain isotope of hydrogen to be used to produce a hydride that could economically store hydrogen gas (at room temperature with zero leakage) in SCUBA tank like bottles in a vehicle, we could all be running hydrogen collected from a home solar powered electrolyzer in our cars. A catalytic agent releases the gas from the hydride gradually as needed to run your engine. And, by the way, your risk of explosion and fire with this system is far lower than with a gasoline tank.

It didn't happen because all those terrorists among us would run out and make hydrogen bombs from heavy water...  Fossil fuel industry fuel product profits from 42% PLUS of their refinery CRAP had, and has, nothing whatsoever to do with it.  LOL!
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2017, 01:22:34 pm »
 

Largest ‘artificial sun’ switched on in Germany to research hydrogen production

Tibi Puiu March 23, 2017

Synlight-German-Aerospace-Center-Institute-For-Solar-Research
Credit: DLR

This week, the German Aerospace Center (DLR) Institute for Solar Research turned on the Synlight project, an array of 149 huge spotlights. Together, these spotlights converge on a single 20-by-20 centimeter (8×8 inch) spot onto which it projects 10,000 times the amount of solar radiation that would have normally shined on the surface. The researchers call it the largest ‘artificial sun’, though we shouldn’t confuse it with fusion energy projects which would be more deserving of the title.

A huge lightbulb   

The setup is comprised of xenon short-arc lamps, which you’d typically find in a modern cinema, arranged in a honeycomb structure in Juelich, just 30 kilometers (19 miles) west of Cologne. When the lights are turned on, an immense amount of power is concentrated on a small surface, just enough to heat it in excess of 3,000 degrees Celsius.

Unlike the sun, however, this project doesn’t create it energy. Rather, it eats it with a voracious appetite. Turning on the lights for four hours consumers as much electricity as a four-person household does in a whole year. It might help generate energy, though.

The goal of the project is to better understand solar radiation dynamics to find out how to maximally exploit solar energy. For instance, a setup similar to Synlight only comprised of mirrors could be used to generate renewable liquid hydrogen, a fuel which emits zero emissions when combusted. Right now, 99% of all man-made hydrogen is derived from fossil fuels through an energy and carbon intensive process called methane reforming.

Of course, hydrogen by itself is not without problems. Storing it can be a hassle because it’s the lightest and smallest molecule and just escapes most containers. It’s density is very small which can also be problematic. However, combining it with carbon monoxide results in eco-friendly kerosene for the aviation industry.


ALSO READ:  Record-breaking silicon solar cell efficiency of 26.6% demonstrated by Japanese researchers, very close to the theoretical limit  :o

Once scientists master hydrogen production with Synlight, they can scale the system tenfold — all powered by the sun, not electricity, this time.

The DLR labs are busy with other interesting projects. One of them involves creating artificial comets made of water, rock dust, and soot, all locked in a vacuum chamber that, of course, contains an artificial sun.

http://www.zmescience.com/ecology/artificial-sun-germany-0423423/
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 02:56:12 pm »
Zero-Emission Hydrogen-Powered Ship Delivered in Step Toward Cleaner Cargo

November 29, 2017 by Bloomberg

Hydroville is now the first passenger shuttle that has received a Class’ approval to burn diesel :P  and hydrogen  in its 2 combustion engines

SNIPPET:

International Commitment

Quote
“There’s a very strong commitment to decarbonize shipping from powerful countries such as China, Japan, and a group of European nations,” said Tristan Smith, a lecturer at University College London’s energy institute and a former naval architect. “Hydrogen is one of the most cost effective ways to do this. It’s proven, it works in the energy system and it’s easy to combust in ships.” 

Full article:

http://gcaptain.com/zero-emission-hydrogen-powered-ship-delivered-in-step-toward-cleaner-cargo/

« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 05:20:26 pm by AGelbert »
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2017, 03:50:03 pm »
Zero-Emission Hydrogen-Powered Ship Delivered in Step Toward Cleaner Cargo

November 29, 2017 by Bloomberg

Hydroville is now the first passenger shuttle that has received a Class’ approval to burn diesel :P  and hydrogen  in its 2 combustion engines

SNIPPET:

International Commitment

Quote
“There’s a very strong commitment to decarbonize shipping from powerful countries such as China, Japan, and a group of European nations,” said Tristan Smith, a lecturer at University College London’s energy institute and a former naval architect. “Hydrogen is one of the most cost effective ways to do this. It’s proven, it works in the energy system and it’s easy to combust in ships.” 

Full article:

http://gcaptain.com/zero-emission-hydrogen-powered-ship-delivered-in-step-toward-cleaner-cargo/

How do they make the hydrogen?  How much energy does it take to make it?


Agelbert NOTE: Resorting to fallacious debating techniques, like the one I just got sniped with when Engineer K-Dog "innocently" asked about how hydrogen is made, is fun if the person spewing the clever bullshit is only interested in attacking the messenger, not debating the message. K-Dog knows all the industrial techniques used to make hydrogen and cherry picks the most energy intensive forms, while totally excluding the ones that I HAVE DISCUSSED HERE OFTEN, WITH EVIDENCE AND DATA, just to make a "greater thermodynamic efficiency" case for fossil fuel CRAP. He is so repetitive and predictable as to be boring. K-Dog is smart and I share many views with him. But he is adamantly incorrigible in his insistance that Renewable Energy cannot replace fossil fuels OR prevent the collapse of human civilization. Perhaps he is right. But I don't think so.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 04:08:37 pm »
GreenCarReports

Audi CEO arrested in Germany over diesel scandal 

By Eric C. Evarts

Jun 18, 2018

VW's diesel scandal is far from over.

In the latest move on the political chessboard, German authorities arrested the head of VW's luxury division Audi at his home Monday morning according to a Reuters report. German authorities cited concerns that Stadler could obstruct their ongoing investigation into the diesel emissions cheating scandal. A German judge ordered Stadler held in custody to prevent him from obstructing or hindering the diesel investigation, the report said.

Audi and VW confirmed the arrest to Reuters and noted that under German law Stadler is presumed innocent unless proved otherwise.

Audi admitted two months after VW did that it had also installed cheat device software on its cars to fool emissions testing equipment to deliver clean readings on tests even though its cars actually emitted as much as 35 times more pollution than allowed on the road.

Although most of the attention to VW's emissions scandal has been focused on the U.S., where eight company officials have been charged, investigations are also ongoing in Germany, where the cars also failed to meet on-road emissions standards.

CHECK OUT: Audi e-Tron Electric Car To Offer 150-kW Quick Charging Sites

Stadler, the former chief of staff to VW's powerful former chairman Ferdinand Piech, had been handed the post as head of Audi in an effort to promote the automaker's transition to electric-car production. His arrest is likely to throw those restructuring efforts at VW into turmoil.

Audi announced in 2015 that it would develop a new all-electric SUV, the e-tron, and work to build a network of fast chargers around the United States to support the car. As part of a consent decree approved by the court, VW agreed to form a new division, Electrify America, to build a $2 billion network of fast chargers around the United States, and the Audi plan was rolled into that effort. Electrify America has now opened its first locations in the U.S. and laid out its plans for further

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117271_audi-ceo-arrested-in-germany-over-diesel-scandal


Thanks for the update on diesel-gate.

I'm interested to see what Audi brings to the dance with the H-Tron concept.


You are welcome, Az. You know I have always believed hydrogen powered vehicles are practical and cost effective. I have posted here, years ago,about how a home setup of a solar powered water hydrolyzer has been available for well over a decade.

Many people do not know, but I learned it when I researched it, that most of the hydrogen production in the world is done by the Fossil fuel Industry in a horribly inefficent process that extracts the hydrogen from products of fossil fuel refining. The "inefficiency" claim that fossil fuelers often wail and moan about for the production of hydrogen from electrolysis is hypocritical in the extreme, when their process is even less efficient! They have to refine oil BEFORE they can get the lighter products like methane (CH4) from the cracking towers to the point where the process of chemically producing hydrogen gas can begin. It is ruinously inefficient. It is ERoEI NEGATIVE! Yet, the fossil fuel industry REFUSES to go for a NON-hydrocarbon (i.e WATER) feedstock. So it goes. :(

Here's the deal with hydrogen. It's a pain in arse to store. It leaks because it is so tiny. But, that isn't the biggest problem with this massively high energy density gas (even though Hess's "Law", oh so covenient for hydrocarbons, gives it a nominal enthalpy value of zero -  LOL!).

When hydrogen percolates through the metal in the container housing it and through the pipe metal that feeds it to the combustion chamber, this embrittles the daylights out of said metal and deteriorates it. It is an issue, but one that can be dealt with by replacing those parts most affected at specific intervals. Nuclear power plants have a hell of problem with the hydrogen isotope that plays embrittlement hell with all their machinery and pipes.

All that said, the best way to use hydrogen as a fuel is to make it just before you use it. That's where a home hydrolizer comes in. That would threaten the bottom line of the Fossil fuel Industry so it ain't happenin' any time soon, at least for the average Joe or Jane.

These modern hydrogen fuel CELL type vehicles are high tech. They are expensive. They are too expensive, as far as I am concerned. However, if they ever go mainstream, you can bet your bottom dollar that the Fossil Fuel Industry will be front and center in the production and marketing of these high tech vehicles that will need expensive routine maintenance and lots of government subsidy to be "affordable" for the average Joe.

A Ford, off the shelf, engine was modified over 8 years ago to run on hydrogen for the Phantom Eye drone. It was no big deal. It was easy to do. Ford did not have to come up with some new, "specialized for hydrogen combustion",  engine.

They could have done the same for cars. They just did not want to.

Quote
The Phantom Eye was an evolution from Boeing's earlier success with the piston-powered Boeing Condor that set several records for altitude and endurance in the late 1980s. Boeing also studied a larger HALE UAV that can fly for over 10 days and carry payloads of 2,000 pounds (900 kg) or more; the company also worked on the Phantom Ray UAV as a flying testbed for advanced technologies.[5]

Phantom Eye's propulsion system successfully completed an 80-hour test in an altitude chamber on March 1, 2010; this cleared the way for the propulsion system and the airframe to be assembled. Boeing worked closely with Ball Aerospace, Aurora Flight Sciences, Ford Motor Co. and MAHLE Powertrain to develop the Phantom Eye.[5] The Phantom Eye was revealed to the press at a ceremony at Boeing's facilities in St Louis, Missouri, on July 12, 2010.[2] The Phantom Eye demonstrator is a 60%-70% scale design of an objective system. According to Darryl Davis, president of Boeing's Phantom Works advanced concepts group, the Phantom Eye demonstrator could lead to an objective system capable of achieving 24-hour-a-day, seven-day-a-week coverage of an area year round with as few as four aircraft.[6]

Propulsion
Each of the two propulsion systems consisted of modified Ford 2.3 liter engines, reduction gearbox, and 4-blade propeller. The engines were originally designed for use with some models of the petrol-burning Ford Fusion car. To be able to run in the oxygen starved atmosphere at 65,000 ft, the engines featured a multiple turbocharger system that compresses that available low density air and reduces the radiated infrared heat signature to increase its stealth properties. The engines, which provided 150 horsepower at sea level, were tuned so as to be able to run on hydrogen. Boeing's marketing department stated that this will make the aircraft economical and "green" to run, as the only by-product would be water.[20]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Phantom_Eye
 

I'll let you know about the H-tron and other hydrogen car developments (They are up to something in South Korea right now. They ordered several thousand hydrogen powered cars, not from Audi.) when I read something substantial about a production model.  8)
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2018, 04:10:47 pm »
It appears that VW/Audi is moving forward with their charging stations placement here in N.A.

That's no small undertaking. Perhaps VW will take over all the stations when the Musk-Mobile hits a brick wall
and closes it's door. I know for damn sure that the Trump regime won't be dole-ing out funds for a bail-out.


We shall see. Hydrogen powered cars are still a luxury vehicle for the rich, as the Tesla Model S (and too many of the Model 3 dual motor models!).

I won't hold my breath waiting for Tesla to crater. That said, the onslaught to ICE car sales coming from SEVERAL BYD cheap and reliable EVs coming to the USA (that Warren Buffet is betting on) will definitely smack Tesla's bottom line too. Musk wants too much money for his EVs. If his profit margin is so thin that he cannot compete with BYD's EVs, never mind the Volt or the Bolt, Tesla will be absorbed by BYD or GM.

You heard it first here.  ;D   
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2018, 08:41:34 pm »
AUTOSJUNE 20, 2018 / 3:03 AM / 8 DAYS AGO

Hyundai teams up with VW's Audi to boost hydrogen cars

Costas Pitas 3 MIN READ

LONDON (Reuters) - Hyundai (005380.KS) agreed a deal with Audi (NSUG.DE) on Wednesday to collaborate on hydrogen car technology, hoping to boost an energy segment that has lagged behind battery electric vehicles.

The South Korean firm wants to increase the uptake of hydrogen cars, which are propelled by electricity generated by fuel cells but have been held back by a lack of infrastructure and the push for battery electric vehicles by the likes of Tesla (TSLA.O).

The pair will be able to access each other’s intellectual property and share components, including any new parts developed by Audi, which is responsible for hydrogen fuel cell technology in the Volkswagen Group (VOWG_p.DE), the world’s biggest car seller.

Hyundai hopes that the move will create greater demand for vehicles such as its ix35 model and bring down costs to make the technology profitable.

“We want to provide to our component suppliers more chance and we want to have competition between component suppliers,” Sae Hoon Kim, the head of Hyundai’s R&D fuel cell group, told Reuters in an interview in London.

“We also want to make them to have competition with other suppliers, and that competition will bring down the cost.”

Carmakers such as Toyota have touted the benefits of hydrogen vehicles, which take less time to refuel than the recharge times of battery electric cars, but are expensive and suffer from a lack of refuelling stations.

Many carmakers are focusing on battery electric vehicles, which can take between half an hour and half a day to recharge, but are increasingly able to use a growing network of charging points.

Auto firms are teaming up to share the cost of developing greener technologies to replace combustion engines as regulators around the world crack down on emissions. GM and Honda have a partnership to jointly develop electric vehicles with hydrogen fuel cells that are expected to go on sale in 2020, while BMW is working with Toyota.

Kim said that a toughening of European Union carbon emission limits in 2025 would create a need for more hydrogen cars.

Hyundai sold 200 such models last year and expects to sell thousands this year, but Kim said profitability was still far off.

“100,000 or 300,000 vehicles per year per company, when that comes, I think we can make money,” he said.

Reporting by Costas Pitas; Editing by Kevin Liffey

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hyundai-audi/hyundai-teams-up-with-vws-audi-to-boost-hydrogen-cars-idUKKBN1JG0MM?il=0
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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agelbert
I was perusing an encyclopedia (hard copy 2006 Annual New Book of Knowledge) today and noticed a picture of a German submarine launched in September of 2004 (page 67). It says that submarine "gives off almost no pollutants" because it runs on HYDROGEN. 👀👍

Does anybody here know if it is still in operation? 🤔

It's only 15 years old.

Did it work out❓

If it did, why hasn't this hydrogen powered engine technology become more common place❓

You don't build a submarine to be powered by HYDROGEN unless you have a pretty sound idea of how durable this power system is, especially if it is made by Germans.

Frank S > agelbert
Still working - Search Type 212 Submarine

Type 212 Submarine

Germany just ordered 27 more hydrogen trains to go with the 2 that are running now and France just ordered 17. 1,000 H2 trucks are being built for Switzerland by Hyundai. Scotland has H2 bin lorries.

Oh and a hydrogen drone just set a record with a 15 hour flight.

Why hasn't this tech become more common place? Because it is going to change everything. It's the most disruptive tech the energy sector has seen in hundreds of years. It's the end of the petrodollar.

agelbert > Frank S
👍 Thank you. This is encouraging.

Associated Story:

October 1st, 2019 by Tina Casey



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AGelbert

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Liquid Hydrogen Jet Aircraft : A Carbon-Free Flying Future?
4,678 views•Dec 8, 2019


Just Have a Think
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Liquid Hydrogen has proven a very useful energy storage solution in industrial applications for some time, but can it really ever be put to practical and economically viable use in the global aviation industry? This week we take a look.
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Research links:
https://www.orcadian.co.uk/hygrogen-p...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-4...
https://www.ge.com/reports/hydrogen-g...
http://www.airport-world.com/news/gen...
https://careers.rolls-royce.com/profe...
https://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pag...
https://careers.rolls-royce.com/profe...
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...
http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2019/0...
https://newatlas.com/nasa-cheeta-fund...
https://ec.europa.eu/programmes/horiz...
https://www.enableh2.eu/
https://mdx2.plm.automation.siemens.c...
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/...
https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/...
https://www.aef.org.uk/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/201...

#liquidhydrogen    #cllimatecrisis     #actnow
Category People & Blogs
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Could this be a game changer?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2021, 03:56:14 pm »
Hydrogen Home Storage. Could this be a game changer?


201,258 views  :o 👍 Mar 28, 2021

Just Have a Think
282K subscribers

The Hydrogen Economy is a buzz phrase that has been doing the rounds in recent months, and it seems to have provoked quite a bit of contentious debate. Some folks are extremely optimistic about the positive impact that green hydrogen can have on our energy systems. Others think hydrogen might be a back door for 🦕 methane gas 😈 producers. But a new energy storage system now puts green hydrogen production firmly into the hands of the consumer. On site, in their own home. Safely and reliably. Could this one be a game changer?

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He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2021, 05:16:13 pm »


July 25, 2021 By John Konrad

Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego research vessel Robert Gordon Sproul

Scripps Gets $35M From California To Build A Hydrogen-Powered Research Vessel

SNIPPET:

“Scripps has guided countless scientific projects aboard the R/V Robert Gordon Sproul” said California Senator Tempore Toni G. Atkins. “After a four-decade run, it is high time Scripps built a new research vessel that can keep up with the high-caliber work they continue to churn out, and help our state navigate the troubled waters of sea-level rise and our evolving climate.”

The proposed 125-foot vessel will take three years to design, build, and commission, and replace the Research Vessel Robert Gordon Sproul, which has served 40 years of service. This new vessel will continue the university’s educational mission to train the next generation of scientists. 

“With 840 miles of coastline, it is important for California to manage its access to the vast resources of the Pacific Ocean,” said UC San Diego Chancellor Pradeep K. Khosla.

The new vessel will feature an innovative hybrid propulsion system that integrates hydrogen fuel cells alongside a conventional diesel-electric power plant, enabling zero-emission operations. The design is scaled so the ship will operate 75 percent of its missions entirely using a non-fossil fuel—hydrogen—with only pure water and electricity as reaction products. For longer missions, extra power will be provided by clean-running diesel generators. The vessel represents a major step in advancing California’s pledge to reduce global climate risk while transitioning to a carbon-neutral economy.

“Our vision is to build an oceanographic research vessel that can be powered independently from 🦕 fossil fuels , and be free from the criteria pollutants and greenhouse gas emissions,” said Bruce Appelgate, associate director and head of ship operations at Scripps Oceanography.

Full article:
https://gcaptain.com/scripps-hydrogen-research-vessel/
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2021, 05:40:47 pm »


October 1, 2021
Germany facilitates green hydrogen production at sea with new regulation

Regulation that will enable green hydrogen production in the North Sea entered into force on 1 October. With the new ordinance, the German government facilitates the testing of hydrogen production using offshore electricity, such as offshore wind energy, in the German exclusive economic zone. “The production of green hydrogen at sea is a genuine future topic with high innovation potential.

Offshore hydrogen production can make an important contribution to decarbonising Germany as an industrial location,” said German economic affairs minister Peter Altmaier. Germany has launched a first project that promotes offshore hydrogen production.

The H2Mare project, which is to receive 100 million euros in funding from the research ministry, aims to achieve “a significant cost advantage in the production of large quantities of hydrogen” in the coming four years, the ministry writes.

The Offshore Wind Energy Foundation welcomed the new regulation, calling it a “necessary and important step” on the way to offshore-based hydrogen production, even though “it is still unclear in the evaluation criteria what role the logistics concept for bringing the hydrogen onshore plays in the allocation,” said Karina Würtz, the head of the foundation. “With a view to the coming federal government, it is now clear that more and further steps are urgently needed, such as the binding definition of expansion targets and the sufficient designation of areas for green hydrogen production,” she said.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/germany-facilitates-green-hydrogen-production-sea-new-regulation
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Hydrogen propulsion to power future aircraft



At Airbus, we have the ambition to develop the world’s first zero-emission commercial aircraft by 2035.

All three ZEROe concepts are hybrid-hydrogen aircraft. They are powered by hydrogen combustion through modified gas turbine engines. Liquid hydrogen is used as fuel for combustion with oxygen.

In addition, hydrogen fuel cells create electrical power that complements the gas turbine, resulting in a highly efficient hybrid-electric propulsion system. All of these technologies are complementary, and the benefits are additive.

https://www.airbus.com/innovation/zero-emission/hydrogen/zeroe.html
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

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January 11, 2022


Agelbert NOTE: What follows is a recent reality based discussion about hydrogen gas uses, how it is produced, why it should be produced exclusively from Renewable Energy Sourced electricity, no matter how "inefficient" ::) electrolysis is, and why the 🦖 hydrocarbon industry must not be allowed to CONTINUE to dominate the market on hydrogen gas by producing it from methane through a ruinously polluting and inefficient (i.e. ERoEI NEGATIVE!) process:

TSW >  Will Meek • 2 days ago
Again, I'm not trying to make a case for hydrogen buses or any other short-distance transportation, but it is quite possible for LCOE of hydrogen to be below the LCOE of electricity. The reason is because hydrogen can be stored for long periods of time at low cost in caverns and can be transported over long distances in ships without encountering the externalities of country borders and geopolitics. This allows the use of off-peak power and sourcing from low cost production areas such as Chile. Chile claims they will be able to export hydrogen at $1.50/kg by 2030. Assuming approximately 54% efficiency back to electricity (60% fuel cell, 10% shipping & miscellaneous losses), plus 10% transport & 10% CAPEX costs, that is approximately $0.10/kwh. Note that this is a simplification & an approximation, & there is potential for error in both directions. That sounds good for solar/wind which are at approximately $0.03/kwh LCOE. However, hydrogen is available on demand, whereas solar/wind requires battery backup and/or new transmission and/or overcapacity to approach on demand. LCOE impacts from new transmission & overcapacity is too hard to determine to address here. Battery storage LCOE is approximately $0.12/kwh. All LCOE prices come from 2021 EIA estimates.
I won't show detail for use of otherwise curtailed PV/wind, but if it can be purchased on the spot market for $0.01/kwh, it has the potential for undercutting PV/wind LCOE when you include costs for storage/transmission/overcapacity required for on demand production.

agelbert > TSW  a day ago
I agree that the LCOE of hydrogen is below the LCOE of electricity, but that is really a side issue. Hydrogen should be competing with hydrocarbons, not Renewable Energy based electricity.
For cars, battery powered electricy is best overall, due to high reliability and safety combined with low maintenance costs. However, for aircraft, hydrogen is best. The point is to get off hydrocarbon based energy sources, like YESTERDAY!

TSW > André Balsa • a day ago
I actually agree with the primary idea here that Japanese government policy is pushing hydrogen and the car companies such as Toyota and Honda are just responding to that policy. It appears that many here think that it is the car companies pushing hydrogen to the politicians, but I don't find that very plausible. Where I probably differ is that I think that Japanese hydrogen policy is a rational response to their need to import 30-40% of their energy.

eveee > TSW • a day ago
Is it a rational policy? Have you thought that through or researched it? “Japan has twice the per-hectare high-quality renewable potential of North America, three times that of Europe, and nine times that of Germany.” Japan is currently #4 in the Renewable Energy Country Attractiveness Index (RECAI)." Japan is not tapping its full renewables potential, but instead investing in tech that is not up to the task.
And it makes no sense to talk about energy independence and then develop a policy based on importing hydrogen produced from Australia. Hydrogen is an energy carrier, not a source. Meanwhile, Japan has plenty of untapped local renewable sources. This policy is simply irrational.
Japan, Australia firms look to build large-scale green liquefied hydrogen supply chain
The Pace Of Japan’s Renewable Development Is Slowing

agelbert > eveee a day ago
I hear ya eveee but don't believe the myth pushed for the last 70 years by the hydrocarbon industry about Hydrogen being an "energy carrier" instead of a source. There is a very good reason that many rockets use liquid hydrogen and oxygen instead of aviation jet fuel to get to space.
I've studied the matter, all the way into the weeds of the gamed enthalpy numbers to make hydrocarbons look "more energy dense". They are LESS energy dense than Hydrogen gas.
Hydrogen is a source of high energy.
Hydrogen should have its place in aviation while battery powered electric motors should drive EVs. The point is to get off hydrocarbons, like YESTERDAY!

eveee > agelbert • 19 hours ago
Yes, get off hydrocarbons. I just think hydrogen is not the best thing to transport or store. Ammonia or synfuels from hydrogen may be better. Depends on what its used for. As storage, hydrogen has competition from pumped hydro and others. A fundamental issue is that steam reformed hydrogen is cheaper than hydrogen from renewables. Its hard to work against the economics.
The efficiency also matters for some processes. It doesnt matter for hydrogen used for chemicals, just the cost, and how efficiency affects it. As competition with FF cost is a barrier on a fuel equivalent basis.

agelbert> eveee 18 hours ago
All true. I just feel that with the cost of harvesting energy from the sun and wind (and tides, geothermal, etc.) getting so cheap and, unlike hydrocarbons, easy and clean, the efficiency is not the main consideration any longer.
The environmental benefit must now permanently be the overriding consideration, as I explained in the following comment I just made to ctromley after his comment (quoted below) where he makes the case that Hydrogen gas production has a negative ERoEI (i.e. it is too inefficient to be worth our attention). I agree that electrolysis based hydrogen production is inefficient. I completely disagree that we should not be actively producing hydrogen gas this way using some of the surplus electrical energy produced during Renewable Energy harvesting operations because if we don't do that, the hydrocarbon industry crooks will continue to own the hydrogen gas market where they produce it even more inefficiently from CH4, like they are now doing for massive profits.

ctromley • 12 hours ago
The question becomes, why use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen and then use the hydrogen to power fuel cells that make electricity when you can? Every time energy is converted from one form to another, losses inevitably occur.
It really is this simple and obvious. It continues to amaze me how the H2 crowd gets any traction at all.
I used to think that H2 might have some sensible use in niche applications like aircraft or long-haul trucking. But synthetic fuels are probably easier and cheaper, and even then only for aircraft.
I strongly suspect the whole H2 boondoggle is nothing but an attempt by the fossil fuel industry to give theme something more easy to transition to. Electric power gives them essentially nothing. They have to start from scratch, and others have ahead start.

🤔 agelbert > ctromley 3 hours ago
Based on what you just wrote, which is admittedly logical and fact based, crude oil would never have been converted into gasoline in a refinery. The gamed Energy Return on Energy Invested (i.e. ERoEI) numbers of hydrocarbon fuels is based on MONEY (i.e government welfare queen subsidy swag and tax breaks and oil shocks and wars and so on), not actual energy units. The electricity used in refineries is VAST (e.g. Oil Refineries are the LARGEST source of electrical demand in Texas!), yet they NEVER input that energy COST into crude oil per barrel ERoEI because it is A) subsidized and B) mostly from coal generated electricity (still true to a large extent).
The hydrocarbon crooks have kept that scam going for over a century. When ALL the ACTUAL energy costs of producing hydrocabon fuels are input into the ERoEI formula, hydrocarbons have a NEGATIVE ERoEI. Yet, they have been the energy basis of our thoroughly polluted civilization for over a century.
The issue here is not simply ERoEI, but pollution costs. We, as a civilization, need to stop fixating on "energy efficiency" numbers and, instead, soberly look at environmental costs above any other consideration. Because Renewables are so easily harvested, they do not need to be so efficient. For example, a solar panel will make electricity, whether you need it or not, as long as the sun is shining. Also, as long as the wind is blowing, a wind turbine wil do likewise. There is a place for that excess electricity, which comes to us at almost ZERO cost. Yes, we will send more of it to battery banks but, in addition, we should use it to make clean green hydrogen as well.
Hydrogen gas is required for many chemical processes. At this moment, it is the hydrocarbon industry that supplies ALL OF IT! Do you want them to be able to continue with that grossly ERoEI NEGATIVE (even worse than for making hydrocarbon fuels!) production of Hydrogen from methane? I don't.

eveee > agelbert • an hour ago
The entire purpose of the legacy energy industry is to increase consumption. Its really that simple. Its the economics. The fact that economics is screwed up by capitalism is very evident. It needs consumption. Waste is even beneficial for profits.
Short term gain is fine. From a myopic perspective, its get rich now, pay later.
But from a rational perspective, and an environmental one, no energy has zero cost. With renewables, it just doesnt have a fuel cost, and byproducts that are as harmful as fuels. It still has a cost for the means to convert it to useful results,but as you and I agree, those costs are much lower than legacy fuel related energy.
The issue here is how best to utilize those renewable sources. While some uses of conversion to hydrogen and then on to other forms or end uses can be useful, I think its pretty clear to me that legacy FF entitities are intending to substitute their sources of hydrogen for so called green ones or at least confuse the issue, and with a powerful profit motive. Therein lies the rub.
They certainly cannot be trusted based on past and present behavior.
There are some recent articles about converting to ammonia that may be of interest. So far the perspectives on using hydrogen directly do not appear so easy, particularly for things like aircraft. Those discussions have appeared on these blogs in conjunction with the author of those ammonia articles. Among other things, in aircraft, there is an issue of a water vapor in the atmosphere being a GW forcing function and it is a serious issue. Its a actually a major part of combustion aircraft GW effects, not just carbon.
I commented earlier that I see no reason not to displace as much of the hydrogen produced from FF as we can with better processes. Among those is methane to hydrogen to ammonia, and used as feedstock to make fertilizer. This does have a GW effect. It would be great to displace that. Likewise, can be used in steelmaking.
Those are of immediate interest.

agelbert  eveee • an hour ago
🌞 Well said. I agree.

eveee > agelbert • an hour ago
I always enjoy your graphics. Thanks agelbert.

agelbert > eveee • 25 minutes ago
You are welcome, my friend. Thank you for always clearly telling it like it IS about the undeniable 💫 benefits of Renewable Energy Technology to our civilization.

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

 

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