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Author Topic: Photvoltaics (PV)  (Read 13224 times)

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Re: Photvoltaics (PV)
« Reply #270 on: March 29, 2018, 10:03:00 pm »
AG: I guess Palloy thinks pollution costs are "irrelevant". LOL!


The pollution costs of FFs are not irrelevant to the ecology of the planet, but are not included in the system boundaries for the ERoEI of PV question because they are not energy invested or received in PV.  Capitalism claims the atmosphere is an externality, so you can dump CO2 in it for free.  We are a long way from changing that.

Really? My, my, if it wasn't for your willingness to clear up my "misunderstandings", I might have never known about Capitalism and ERoEI and all those other areas you are such a "world class expert" on.  ::)

I have posted SEVERAL times over all those issues over the years, Palloy, what liars claim about this and that has no bearing on the laws of thermodynamics, greenhouse gases, energy payback time and REAL WORLD ERoEI.

Even the ERoEI figures for nuclear and coal and natural gas and other fossil fuels are totally fabricated exercises in happy talk bullshit, though you are also quiet as DEATH on those realities. Just the energy AND pollution produced to build the concrete towers on a nuclear power plant alone knock out any ERoEI or "carbon neutral" claims for nuclear power, even before the mining and refining of yellow cake and the manufacture of fuel rods and the storing of used fuel rods for a CENTURY or so are figured in.

Oh, but you don't like to talk about those "inconveniences", do you? It's a "tough world", RIGHT?

Do you know how much energy it takes to strip out the oxygen from crude oil (there is a LOT of OXYGEN in that "hydrocarbon" when in crude form) before they begin the refining process? No, you don't. And, GUESS WHAT, the 500 plus degrees F they need to cook that crude in while they get rid of the oxygen is NOT EVER considered "part of the ERoEI" of gasoline. HOW CONVENIENT!

And, my, how "thermodynamically" MATHEMATICALLY "logical" it is to claim that the fuel used by tankers in the ocean and on the highways to get the hydrocarbons to refining points and customer gasoline stations is "irrelevant" to oil ERoEI.

Also, all those subsidies for "national security" which are SUBTRACTED from the cost of the exploration and exploitation MONETARY INVESTMENT for the machines that expend ENERGY (you know, the ENERGY that is INVESTED) to get the crude are also "just part of Capitalism NON-externalities" to help those poor fossil fuel loyal servants get Da Job Done. LOL!

I could spend all day explaining to you what a BAD, SICK JOKE the ERoEI figures for fossil fuels have been from the beginning, but you would dance around with your "externality" claims and such.

And then, when you are tired of all this reality about GAME OVER for humanity with the continued burning of fossil fuels, you would retire to your "Collapse will save us" meme.  ::)

So just keep using those fossil fuels because we, uh, are a long way from all that renewable energy stuff workin' out. Don't worry about those Greenhouse gases! Ya gotta believe me, collapse will save us from Catastrophic climate Change!

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23


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