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Author Topic: Renewable Hydrogen Power  (Read 234 times)

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AGelbert

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Renewable Hydrogen Power
« on: June 17, 2016, 03:08:14 pm »
Scientists using sunlight, water to produce renewable hydrogen power

June 16, 2016

Scientists using sunlight, water to produce renewable hydrogen power

UI researchers have developed a small solar-powered electrochemical device that can help make energy using sunlight and water. Credit: Syed Mubeen.

University of Iowa researchers are working with a California-based startup company to make clean energy from sunlight and any source of water.

The university recently renewed a one-year research agreement to further develop the technology with HyperSolar, a company that aims to commercialize low-cost renewable hydrogen.

Hydrogen power is arguably one of the cleanest and greenest energy sources because when it produces energy, the final byproduct is water instead of carbon emissions. Hydrogen power also can be stored in a fuel cell, making it more reliable than traditional solar cells or solar panels, which need regular sunlight to remain "on."

HyperSolar's lead scientist, Syed Mubeen, a chemical engineering professor at the UI, says although hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, the amount of pure hydrogen in the Earth's atmosphere is very low (about 0.00005 percent), so it must be produced artificially.

Currently, most hydrogen power is made from fossil fuels  in a chemical process called steam reforming, which emits carbon dioxide.
Even though the end product is hydrogen, its inputs make it much less environmentally friendly and sustainable.

Hydrogen also can be made using electrolysis, which requires electricity and highly purified water to split water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. Although this is a sustainable process (assuming the electricity is produced from a renewable energy source), the cost of materials associated with the system are expensive—a major barrier to the affordable production of renewable hydrogen.

"Developing clean energy systems is a goal worldwide," Mubeen says. "Currently, we understand how clean energy systems such as solar cells, wind turbines, et cetera, work at a high level of sophistication. The real challenge going forward is to develop inexpensive clean energy systems that can be cost competitive to fossil fuel systems and be adopted globally and not just in the developed countries."

With HyperSolar, Mubeen and his team at the UI's Optical Science and Technology Center are developing a more cost-effective and environmentally friendly way to manufacture hydrogen by drawing inspiration from plants. So far, the researchers have created a small solar-powered electrochemical device that can be placed in any type of water, including seawater and wastewater. When sunlight shines through the water and hits the solar device, the photon energy in sunlight takes the water (a lower energy state) and converts it to hydrogen (a higher energy state), where it can be stored like a battery. The energy is harvested when the hydrogen is converted back into its lower energy state: water. This is similar to what plants do using photosynthesis, during which plants use photons from the sun to convert water and carbon dioxide into carbohydrates—some of which are stored in fruits and roots for later use.

Mubeen says his team is currently working to lower costs even further and to make their process more robust so it can be produced on a mass scale. That way, it eventually could be used as renewable electricity or to power hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

"Although H2 can be used in many forms, the immediate possibility of this renewable H2 would be for use in fuel cells to generate electricity or react with CO2 to form liquid fuels like methanol for the transportation sector," he says. "If one could develop these systems at costs competitive  ;) to fossil fuel systems , then it would be a home run."

Explore further: Research sets new record for generation of fuels from sunlight

Provided by: University of Iowa search and more info website

http://phys.org/news/2016-06-scientists-sunlight-renewable-hydrogen-power.html#jCp

Agelbert NOTE: Did you read that bit about how most hydrogen is made from fossil fuels with steam forming? Here is something you should know about steam forming, from an ERoEi standpoint:

Quote
Hydrogen can also be extracted from hydrocarbons by reforming. This chemical process is, in principle, an energy transfer process. The HHV energy contained in the original substance can be transferred to the HHV energy of hydrogen.

Theoretically  ;D
, no external energy is needed to convert a hydrogen-rich energy carrier like methane (CH4) or methanol (CH3OH) into hydrogen by autothermal steam reforming.

But in reality  ;D, thermal losses cannot be avoided and the HHV energy content of the original hydrocarbon fuel always exceeds the HHV energy contained in the generated hydrogen.

The efficiency of hydrogen production by reforming is about 90%. Consequently, more CO2 is released by this "detour" process than by direct use of the hydrocarbon precursors. But no obvious advantages can be derived with respect to well-to-wheel efficiency and overall CO2 emissions.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/pdfs/hyd_economy_bossel_eliasson.pdf

The only reason electrolysis, a truly clean way to generate Hydrogen, is more expensive than steam forming, is because of fossil fuel subsidies, NOT because of Energy Return on Energy Invested (ERoEI) thermodynamics.

If the fossil fuel direct and indirect subsidies were eliminated (even excluding the pollution costs), fossil fuel systems would not be cost competitive with ANY Renewable Energy system.

Hydrogen power just needs the subsidy push that the fossil fuel industry has always used to make its products be artificially cost competitive with Renewable Energy technologies and products, such as Ethanol from biomass.

In addition to Hydrogen production, the fossil fuel industry also produces about 5% of the world's ethanol. This ethanol takes far more energy to produce than biomass ethanol. But once again, the unwarranted subsidies of the fossil fuel industry enable it to produce a "cost competitive" ethanol, unjustified from a thermodynamiics standpoint.

Biomass ethanol, unlike fossil fuel industry ethanol, is justified from a thermodynamics standpoint. Producing hydrogen or ethanol using fossil fuels is totally unjustified.

Subsidies for clean hydrogen production, like the photon mediated production portrayed in the above article or electrolysis and biomass based ethanol production are justified when all the energy and pollution costs are considered.   

Quote
Between 1968 and 2000, oil companies received subsidies of $149.6 billion, compared to ethanol’s paltry $116.6 million. The subsidies alcohol did receive have worked extremely well in bringing maturity to the industry. Farmer-owned cooperatives now produce the majority of alcohol fuel in the U.S. Farmer-owners pay themselves premium prices for their corn and then pay themselves a dividend on the alcohol profit.

The increased economic activity derived from alcohol fuel production has turned out to be crucial to the survival of noncorporate farmers, and the amounts of money they spend in their communities on goods and services and taxes for schools have been much higher in areas with an ethanol plant. Plus, between $3 and $6 in tax receipts are generated for every dollar of ethanol subsidy. The rate of return can be much higher in rural communities, where re-spending within the community produces a multiplier factor of up to 22 times for each alcohol fuel subsidy dollar.

http://www.permaculture.com/node/490

We need fossil fuels like a hole in our wallet.

 

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AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2016, 07:42:16 pm »
clean hydrogen and rechargable zinc batteries       
June 17, 2016
Stanford researchers find new ways to make clean hydrogen and rechargable zinc batteries
Stanford engineers created arrays of silicon nanocones to trap sunlight and improve the performance of solar cells made of bismuth vanadate (1μm=1,000 nanometers). Credit: Wei Chen and Yongcai Qiu, Stanford

A Stanford University research lab has developed new technologies to tackle two of the world's biggest energy challenges - clean fuel for transportation and grid-scale energy storage.

The researchers described their findings in two studies published this month in the journals Science Advances and Nature Communications.


Hydrogen fuel

Hydrogen fuel has long been touted as a clean alternative to gasoline. Automakers began offering hydrogen-powered cars to American consumers last year, but only a handful have sold, mainly because hydrogen refueling stations are few and far between.

"Millions of cars could be powered by clean hydrogen fuel if it were cheap and widely available," said Yi Cui, an associate professor of materials science and engineering at Stanford.

Unlike gasoline-powered vehicles, which emit carbon dioxide (CO2), hydrogen cars themselves are emissions free. Making hydrogen fuel, however, is not emission free: today, making most hydrogen fuel involves natural gas in a process that releases CO2 into the atmosphere. *

To address the problem, Cui and his colleagues have focused on photovoltaic water splitting. This emerging technology consists of a solar-powered electrode immersed in water. When sunlight hits the electrode, it generates an electric current that splits the water into its constituent parts, hydrogen and oxygen.

Finding an affordable way to produce clean hydrogen from water has been a challenge. Conventional solar electrodes made of silicon quickly corrode when exposed to oxygen, a key byproduct of water splitting. Several research teams have reduced corrosion by coating the silicon with iridium and other precious metals.

Writing in the June 17 edition of Science Advances, Cui and his colleagues presented a new approach using bismuth vanadate, an inexpensive compound that absorbs sunlight and generates modest amounts of electricity.

"Bismuth vanadate has been widely regarded as a promising material for photoelectrochemical water splitting, in part because of its low cost and high stability against corrosion," said Cui, an associate professor of photon science at the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory. "However, the performance of this material remains well below its theoretical solar-to-hydrogen conversion efficiency."

 
Bismuth vanadate absorbs light but is a poor conductor of electricity. To carry a current, a solar cell made of bismuth vanadate must be sliced very thin, 200 nanometers or less, making it virtually transparent. As a result, visible light that could be used to generate electricity simply passes through the cell.

To capture sunlight before it escapes, Cui's team turned to nanotechnology. The researchers created microscopic arrays containing thousands of silicon nanocones, each about 600 nanometers tall.

Left (a): A conventional zinc (Zn) battery short circuits when dendrites growing on the zinc anode make contact with the metal cathode. Right (b): Stanford scientists redesigned the battery using plastic and carbon insulators to prevent zinc dendrites from reaching the cathode. Credit: Shougo Higashi

"Nanocone structures have shown a promising light-trapping capability over a broad range of wavelengths," Cui explained. "Each cone is optimally shaped to capture sunlight that would otherwise pass through the thin solar cell."

In the experiment, Cui and his colleagues deposited the nanocone arrays on a thin film of bismuth vanadate. Both layers were then placed on a solar cell made of perovskite, another promising photovoltaic material.

When submerged, the three-layer tandem device immediately began splitting water at a solar-to-hydrogen conversion efficiency of 6.2 percent, already matching the theoretical maximum rate for a bismuth vanadate cell.

"The tandem solar cell continued generating hydrogen for more than 10 hours, an indication of good stability," said Cui, a principal investigator at the Stanford Institute for Materials and Energy Sciences. "Although the efficiency we demonstrated was only 6.2 percent, our tandem device has room for significant improvement in the future."

Rechargeable zinc battery

In a second study published in the June 6 edition of Nature Communications, Cui and Shougo Higashi, a visiting scientist from Toyota Central R&D Labs Inc., proposed a new battery design that could help solve the problem of grid-scale energy storage.

"Solar and wind farms should be able to provide around-the-clock energy for the electric grid, even when there's no sunlight or wind," Cui said. "That will require inexpensive batteries and other low-cost technologies big enough to store surplus clean energy for use on demand."

In the study, Cui, Higashi and their co-workers designed a novel battery with electrodes made of zinc and nickel, inexpensive metals with the potential for grid-scale storage.

A variety of zinc-metal batteries are available commercially, but few are rechargeable, because of tiny fibers called dendrites that form on the zinc electrode during charging. Theses dendrites can grow until they finally reach the nickel electrode, causing the battery to short circuit and fail.

The research team solved the dendrite problem by simply redesigning the battery. Instead of having the zinc and nickel electrodes face one another, as in a conventional battery, the researchers separated them with a plastic insulator and wrapped a carbon insulator around the edges of the zinc electrode.

"With our design, zinc ions are reduced and deposited on the exposed back surface of the zinc electrode during charging," said Higashi, lead author of the study. "Therefore, even if zinc dendrites form, they will grow away from the nickel electrode and will not short the battery."

To demonstrate stability, the researchers successfully charged and discharged the battery more than 800 times without shorting.

"Our design is very simple and could be applied to a wide range of metal batteries," Cui said.

Explore further: Researchers create a low-cost, long-lasting water splitter made of silicon and nickel
More information: Efficient solar-driven water splitting by nanocone BiVO4-perovskite tandem cells, Science Advances, DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.1501764
Journal reference: Science Advances search and more info website Nature Communications search and more info website
Provided by: Stanford University search and more info website


http://phys.org/news/2016-06-ways-hydrogen-rechargable-zinc-batteries.html

* This is known as Steam Forming and has a NEGATIVE ERoEI. It is stupid but fossil fuel industry subsidies make it "cost effective", just like the insanely stupid negative ERoEI activity of making about 5% of the world's Ethanol using fossil fuel feed stock. 

I applaud the new technology discussed in the above article.  But expect the fossil fuel industry to make their typical claim that "it's a great idea, but not ready for prime time  " as an excuse to continue to justify the polluting gasoline powered status quo as a "necessary" evil (when they aren't touting it as the savior of humanity, that is). 

The fact is that Hydrogen fuel for vehicles has been ready for prime time for over 50 YEARS.    Mormon farmers have been running their tractors on it for at least that long.

While it is true that storing hydrogen, AS A GAS, is tough and energy intensive, "storing" it as WATER, to be used when you need it for a few hours from a solar powered electrolyzer, is old hat, as long as the sun comes out that day. ;D

It's BULLSHIT to claim well insulated low temperature hydrogen fuel tanks could not have been mass produced and economically iincorporated into our vehicles by a country that pioneered the technology for ICBMS, hydrogen bombs and the space shuttle. 

And furthermore, if the nukers had allowed a certain isotope of hydrogen to be used to produce a hydride that could economically store hydrogen gas (at room temperature with zero leakage) in SCUBA tank like bottles in a vehicle, we could all be running hydrogen collected from a home solar powered electrolyzer in our cars. A catalytic agent releases the gas from the hydride gradually as needed to run your engine. And, by the way, your risk of explosion and fire with this system is far lower than with a gasoline tank.

It didn't happen because all those terrorists among us would run out and make hydrogen bombs from heavy water...  Fossil fuel industry fuel product profits from 42% PLUS of their refinery CRAP had, and has, nothing whatsoever to do with it.  LOL!
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AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2017, 01:22:34 pm »
 

Largest ‘artificial sun’ switched on in Germany to research hydrogen production

Tibi Puiu March 23, 2017

Synlight-German-Aerospace-Center-Institute-For-Solar-Research
Credit: DLR

This week, the German Aerospace Center (DLR) Institute for Solar Research turned on the Synlight project, an array of 149 huge spotlights. Together, these spotlights converge on a single 20-by-20 centimeter (8×8 inch) spot onto which it projects 10,000 times the amount of solar radiation that would have normally shined on the surface. The researchers call it the largest ‘artificial sun’, though we shouldn’t confuse it with fusion energy projects which would be more deserving of the title.

A huge lightbulb   

The setup is comprised of xenon short-arc lamps, which you’d typically find in a modern cinema, arranged in a honeycomb structure in Juelich, just 30 kilometers (19 miles) west of Cologne. When the lights are turned on, an immense amount of power is concentrated on a small surface, just enough to heat it in excess of 3,000 degrees Celsius.

Unlike the sun, however, this project doesn’t create it energy. Rather, it eats it with a voracious appetite. Turning on the lights for four hours consumers as much electricity as a four-person household does in a whole year. It might help generate energy, though.

The goal of the project is to better understand solar radiation dynamics to find out how to maximally exploit solar energy. For instance, a setup similar to Synlight only comprised of mirrors could be used to generate renewable liquid hydrogen, a fuel which emits zero emissions when combusted. Right now, 99% of all man-made hydrogen is derived from fossil fuels through an energy and carbon intensive process called methane reforming.

Of course, hydrogen by itself is not without problems. Storing it can be a hassle because it’s the lightest and smallest molecule and just escapes most containers. It’s density is very small which can also be problematic. However, combining it with carbon monoxide results in eco-friendly kerosene for the aviation industry.


ALSO READ:  Record-breaking silicon solar cell efficiency of 26.6% demonstrated by Japanese researchers, very close to the theoretical limit  :o

Once scientists master hydrogen production with Synlight, they can scale the system tenfold — all powered by the sun, not electricity, this time.

The DLR labs are busy with other interesting projects. One of them involves creating artificial comets made of water, rock dust, and soot, all locked in a vacuum chamber that, of course, contains an artificial sun.

http://www.zmescience.com/ecology/artificial-sun-germany-0423423/
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AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 02:56:12 pm »
Zero-Emission Hydrogen-Powered Ship Delivered in Step Toward Cleaner Cargo

November 29, 2017 by Bloomberg


Hydroville is now the first passenger shuttle that has received a Class’ approval to burn diesel :P  and hydrogen  in its 2 combustion engines

SNIPPET:

International Commitment

Quote
“There’s a very strong commitment to decarbonize shipping from powerful countries such as China, Japan, and a group of European nations,” said Tristan Smith, a lecturer at University College London’s energy institute and a former naval architect. “Hydrogen is one of the most cost effective ways to do this. It’s proven, it works in the energy system and it’s easy to combust in ships.” 

Full article:

http://gcaptain.com/zero-emission-hydrogen-powered-ship-delivered-in-step-toward-cleaner-cargo/

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AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2017, 03:50:03 pm »
Zero-Emission Hydrogen-Powered Ship Delivered in Step Toward Cleaner Cargo

November 29, 2017 by Bloomberg

Hydroville is now the first passenger shuttle that has received a Class’ approval to burn diesel :P  and hydrogen  in its 2 combustion engines

SNIPPET:

International Commitment

Quote
“There’s a very strong commitment to decarbonize shipping from powerful countries such as China, Japan, and a group of European nations,” said Tristan Smith, a lecturer at University College London’s energy institute and a former naval architect. “Hydrogen is one of the most cost effective ways to do this. It’s proven, it works in the energy system and it’s easy to combust in ships.” 

Full article:

http://gcaptain.com/zero-emission-hydrogen-powered-ship-delivered-in-step-toward-cleaner-cargo/

How do they make the hydrogen?  How much energy does it take to make it?


Agelbert NOTE: Resorting to fallacious debating techniques, like the one I just got sniped with when Engineer K-Dog "innocently" asked about how hydrogen is made, is fun if the person spewing the clever bullshit is only interested in attacking the messenger, not debating the message. K-Dog knows all the industrial techniques used to make hydrogen and cherry picks the most energy intensive forms, while totally excluding the ones that I HAVE DISCUSSED HERE OFTEN, WITH EVIDENCE AND DATA, just to make a "greater thermodynamic efficiency" case for fossil fuel CRAP. He is so repetitive and predictable as to be boring. K-Dog is smart and I share many views with him. But he is adamantly incorrigible in his insistance that Renewable Energy cannot replace fossil fuels OR prevent the collapse of human civilization. Perhaps he is right. But I don't think so.
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AGelbert

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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 04:08:37 pm »
GreenCarReports

Audi CEO arrested in Germany over diesel scandal 

By Eric C. Evarts

Jun 18, 2018

VW's diesel scandal is far from over.

In the latest move on the political chessboard, German authorities arrested the head of VW's luxury division Audi at his home Monday morning according to a Reuters report. German authorities cited concerns that Stadler could obstruct their ongoing investigation into the diesel emissions cheating scandal. A German judge ordered Stadler held in custody to prevent him from obstructing or hindering the diesel investigation, the report said.

Audi and VW confirmed the arrest to Reuters and noted that under German law Stadler is presumed innocent unless proved otherwise.

Audi admitted two months after VW did that it had also installed cheat device software on its cars to fool emissions testing equipment to deliver clean readings on tests even though its cars actually emitted as much as 35 times more pollution than allowed on the road.

Although most of the attention to VW's emissions scandal has been focused on the U.S., where eight company officials have been charged, investigations are also ongoing in Germany, where the cars also failed to meet on-road emissions standards.

CHECK OUT: Audi e-Tron Electric Car To Offer 150-kW Quick Charging Sites

Stadler, the former chief of staff to VW's powerful former chairman Ferdinand Piech, had been handed the post as head of Audi in an effort to promote the automaker's transition to electric-car production. His arrest is likely to throw those restructuring efforts at VW into turmoil.

Audi announced in 2015 that it would develop a new all-electric SUV, the e-tron, and work to build a network of fast chargers around the United States to support the car. As part of a consent decree approved by the court, VW agreed to form a new division, Electrify America, to build a $2 billion network of fast chargers around the United States, and the Audi plan was rolled into that effort. Electrify America has now opened its first locations in the U.S. and laid out its plans for further

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117271_audi-ceo-arrested-in-germany-over-diesel-scandal


Thanks for the update on diesel-gate.

I'm interested to see what Audi brings to the dance with the H-Tron concept.


You are welcome, Az. You know I have always believed hydrogen powered vehicles are practical and cost effective. I have posted here, years ago,about how a home setup of a solar powered water hydrolyzer has been available for well over a decade.

Many people do not know, but I learned it when I researched it, that most of the hydrogen production in the world is done by the Fossil fuel Industry in a horribly inefficent process that extracts the hydrogen from products of fossil fuel refining. The "inefficiency" claim that fossil fuelers often wail and moan about for the production of hydrogen from electrolysis is hypocritical in the extreme, when their process is even less efficient! They have to refine oil BEFORE they can get the lighter products like methane (CH4) from the cracking towers to the point where the process of chemically producing hydrogen gas can begin. It is ruinously inefficient. It is ERoEI NEGATIVE! Yet, the fossil fuel industry REFUSES to go for a NON-hydrocarbon (i.e WATER) feedstock. So it goes. :(

Here's the deal with hydrogen. It's a pain in arse to store. It leaks because it is so tiny. But, that isn't the biggest problem with this massively high energy density gas (even though Hess's "Law", oh so covenient for hydrocarbons, gives it a nominal enthalpy value of zero -  LOL!).

When hydrogen percolates through the metal in the container housing it and through the pipe metal that feeds it to the combustion chamber, this embrittles the daylights out of said metal and deteriorates it. It is an issue, but one that can be dealt with by replacing those parts most affected at specific intervals. Nuclear power plants have a hell of problem with the hydrogen isotope that plays embrittlement hell with all their machinery and pipes.

All that said, the best way to use hydrogen as a fuel is to make it just before you use it. That's where a home hydrolizer comes in. That would threaten the bottom line of the Fossil fuel Industry so it ain't happenin' any time soon, at least for the average Joe or Jane.

These modern hydrogen fuel CELL type vehicles are high tech. They are expensive. They are too expensive, as far as I am concerned. However, if they ever go mainstream, you can bet your bottom dollar that the Fossil Fuel Industry will be front and center in the production and marketing of these high tech vehicles that will need expensive routine maintenance and lots of government subsidy to be "affordable" for the average Joe.

A Ford, off the shelf, engine was modified over 8 years ago to run on hydrogen for the Phantom Eye drone. It was no big deal. It was easy to do. Ford did not have to come up with some new, "specialized for hydrogen combustion",  engine.

They could have done the same for cars. They just did not want to.

Quote
The Phantom Eye was an evolution from Boeing's earlier success with the piston-powered Boeing Condor that set several records for altitude and endurance in the late 1980s. Boeing also studied a larger HALE UAV that can fly for over 10 days and carry payloads of 2,000 pounds (900 kg) or more; the company also worked on the Phantom Ray UAV as a flying testbed for advanced technologies.[5]

Phantom Eye's propulsion system successfully completed an 80-hour test in an altitude chamber on March 1, 2010; this cleared the way for the propulsion system and the airframe to be assembled. Boeing worked closely with Ball Aerospace, Aurora Flight Sciences, Ford Motor Co. and MAHLE Powertrain to develop the Phantom Eye.[5] The Phantom Eye was revealed to the press at a ceremony at Boeing's facilities in St Louis, Missouri, on July 12, 2010.[2] The Phantom Eye demonstrator is a 60%-70% scale design of an objective system. According to Darryl Davis, president of Boeing's Phantom Works advanced concepts group, the Phantom Eye demonstrator could lead to an objective system capable of achieving 24-hour-a-day, seven-day-a-week coverage of an area year round with as few as four aircraft.[6]

Propulsion
Each of the two propulsion systems consisted of modified Ford 2.3 liter engines, reduction gearbox, and 4-blade propeller. The engines were originally designed for use with some models of the petrol-burning Ford Fusion car. To be able to run in the oxygen starved atmosphere at 65,000 ft, the engines featured a multiple turbocharger system that compresses that available low density air and reduces the radiated infrared heat signature to increase its stealth properties. The engines, which provided 150 horsepower at sea level, were tuned so as to be able to run on hydrogen. Boeing's marketing department stated that this will make the aircraft economical and "green" to run, as the only by-product would be water.[20]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Phantom_Eye
 

I'll let you know about the H-tron and other hydrogen car developments (They are up to something in South Korea right now. They ordered several thousand hydrogen powered cars, not from Audi.) when I read something substantial about a production model.  8)
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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2018, 04:10:47 pm »
It appears that VW/Audi is moving forward with their charging stations placement here in N.A.

That's no small undertaking. Perhaps VW will take over all the stations when the Musk-Mobile hits a brick wall
and closes it's door. I know for damn sure that the Trump regime won't be dole-ing out funds for a bail-out.


We shall see. Hydrogen powered cars are still a luxury vehicle for the rich, as the Tesla Model S (and too many of the Model 3 dual motor models!).

I won't hold my breath waiting for Tesla to crater. That said, the onslaught to ICE car sales coming from SEVERAL BYD cheap and reliable EVs coming to the USA (that Warren Buffet is betting on) will definitely smack Tesla's bottom line too. Musk wants too much money for his EVs. If his profit margin is so thin that he cannot compete with BYD's EVs, never mind the Volt or the Bolt, Tesla will be absorbed by BYD or GM.

You heard it first here.  ;D   
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Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2018, 08:41:34 pm »
AUTOSJUNE 20, 2018 / 3:03 AM / 8 DAYS AGO

Hyundai teams up with VW's Audi to boost hydrogen cars

Costas Pitas 3 MIN READ

LONDON (Reuters) - Hyundai (005380.KS) agreed a deal with Audi (NSUG.DE) on Wednesday to collaborate on hydrogen car technology, hoping to boost an energy segment that has lagged behind battery electric vehicles.

The South Korean firm wants to increase the uptake of hydrogen cars, which are propelled by electricity generated by fuel cells but have been held back by a lack of infrastructure and the push for battery electric vehicles by the likes of Tesla (TSLA.O).

The pair will be able to access each other’s intellectual property and share components, including any new parts developed by Audi, which is responsible for hydrogen fuel cell technology in the Volkswagen Group (VOWG_p.DE), the world’s biggest car seller.

Hyundai hopes that the move will create greater demand for vehicles such as its ix35 model and bring down costs to make the technology profitable.

“We want to provide to our component suppliers more chance and we want to have competition between component suppliers,” Sae Hoon Kim, the head of Hyundai’s R&D fuel cell group, told Reuters in an interview in London.

“We also want to make them to have competition with other suppliers, and that competition will bring down the cost.”

Carmakers such as Toyota have touted the benefits of hydrogen vehicles, which take less time to refuel than the recharge times of battery electric cars, but are expensive and suffer from a lack of refuelling stations.

Many carmakers are focusing on battery electric vehicles, which can take between half an hour and half a day to recharge, but are increasingly able to use a growing network of charging points.

Auto firms are teaming up to share the cost of developing greener technologies to replace combustion engines as regulators around the world crack down on emissions. GM and Honda have a partnership to jointly develop electric vehicles with hydrogen fuel cells that are expected to go on sale in 2020, while BMW is working with Toyota.

Kim said that a toughening of European Union carbon emission limits in 2025 would create a need for more hydrogen cars.

Hyundai sold 200 such models last year and expects to sell thousands this year, but Kim said profitability was still far off.

“100,000 or 300,000 vehicles per year per company, when that comes, I think we can make money,” he said.

Reporting by Costas Pitas; Editing by Kevin Liffey

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hyundai-audi/hyundai-teams-up-with-vws-audi-to-boost-hydrogen-cars-idUKKBN1JG0MM?il=0
Leges         Sine    Moribus     Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

 

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