+- +-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 51
Latest: JUST4TheFACTS
New This Month: 0
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 14355
Total Topics: 264
Most Online Today: 1
Most Online Ever: 137
(April 21, 2019, 04:54:01 am)
Users Online
Members: 0
Guests: 0
Total: 0

Author Topic: Batteries  (Read 5718 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

AGelbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31313
  • Location: Colchester, Vermont
    • Renwable Revolution
Re: Batteries
« Reply #90 on: March 15, 2018, 01:37:15 pm »
Some deliberately erroneous info on the Musk Australian battery bank, that he SOLD them (he did NOT "give" them) has been posted by (not so) closet fossil fueler Palloy. The 109 MW.h figure for the battery bank quoted by Palloy is also erroneous.

Quote
At roughly five PowerPacks per MWh of energy generation, South Australia's Tesla battery setup will comprise several hundred PowerPack towers -- each containing 16 individual battery pods that balance charge. The 129MWh of batteries to be installed at Hornsdale is roughly equivalent to the capacity installed into Tesla's new electric cars during five days of Model S and Model X production at its plant in Fremont, California.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/07/all-the-details-on-teslas-giant-australian-batteryt/

Quote
December 28, 2017 Less than a month after Tesla unveiled a new backup power system in South Australia, the world’s largest lithium-ion battery is already being put to the test. And it appears to be far exceeding expectations: In the past three weeks alone, the Hornsdale Power Reserve has smoothed out at least two major energy outages, responding even more quickly than the coal-fired backups that were supposed to provide emergency power.

Tesla’s battery last week kicked in just 0.14 seconds after one of Australia’s biggest plants, the Loy Yang facility in the neighbouring state of Victoria, suffered a sudden, unexplained drop in output, according to the International Business Times. And the week before that, another failure at Loy Yang prompted the Hornsdale battery to respond in as little as four seconds — or less, according to some estimates — beating other plants to the punch. State officials have called the response time “a record,” according to local media.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/tesla-mega-battery-south-australia-outage-reaction-time-hornsdale-power-reserve-a8130986.html


I have warned Palloy several times about his penchant for taking every opportunity to attack anything that endangers the use of fossil fuels for energy.

He ignores all my warnings. I will not allow false information to be disseminated here. Consequently, I have deleted it and reposted it below with the portions of the Palloy post that are false eliminated.



Don't quote me but the 8kW version retail 14000 canadian. That is the most expensive format though the 16 kw version close to 20000 canadian.

At those prices, I'll stick to a couple of Lead-Acid Deep Cycle Marine Batts.  ::)

RE

"each have strengths and weaknesses", indeed.

... how a battery developed for EV car use can also be used for grid back-up...  Elon Musk ... South Australia MW.h ... ... batteries, ... ... batteries.

I am grateful to David B. for shedding accurate information on battery technology, including the one Musk uses,  instead of trying to use a forum to attack Musk.

Don't quote me but the 8kW version retail 14000 canadian. That is the most expensive format though the 16 kw version close to 20000 canadian.

At those prices, I'll stick to a couple of Lead-Acid Deep Cycle Marine Batts.  ::)

RE
"each have strengths and weaknesses", indeed.

It makes me wonder how a battery developed for EV car use can also be used for grid back-up, which is the opposite of a mobile situation, where Lead Iron Phosphate excels.  Elon Musk gave South Australia 109 MW.h of his batteries, as a loss-leader, knowing they would have to come back in 8,000 cycles time and buy some more unsuitable batteries.
We spitball this issue at work a lot. Lithium is great for fast instantaneous storage the kind they installed in Australia. Its also really good for peak shaving like they use it for in California. I won't claim insight into Musk's motives but building volume at a loss and keeping his companies in the news cycle to maintain share price are certainly part of it. I like lead carbon, flow batteries and even Aquion if they ever get their power density up. Lithium for mobile applications is hard to beat right now. Then you have to consider that when the cars are done with the batteries the batteries are still good for several thousand cycles at a lesser charge/discharge rate. Lots of startups in that area. 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 02:49:48 pm by AGelbert »
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

 

+-Recent Topics

Money by AGelbert
December 07, 2019, 12:39:48 am

Corruption in Government by AGelbert
December 06, 2019, 10:39:41 pm

🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️ by AGelbert
December 06, 2019, 07:12:53 pm

BREXIT by AGelbert
December 06, 2019, 06:56:25 pm

🌟 IMPEACHMENT SCORE 🌠 by AGelbert
December 06, 2019, 05:51:09 pm

Homebody Handy Hints by AGelbert
December 06, 2019, 03:24:18 pm

Doomstead Diner Daily by Surly1
December 06, 2019, 09:03:55 am

Future Earth by AGelbert
December 05, 2019, 09:59:49 pm

Corporate Profits over Patient in the Health Care Field by AGelbert
December 05, 2019, 08:03:04 pm

You will have to pick a side. There is no longer Room for Procrastination by AGelbert
December 05, 2019, 05:40:36 pm