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Author Topic: Batteries  (Read 5359 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: Batteries
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2017, 02:43:53 pm »
Vehicle-To-Grid Discharge, Even At Constant Power, Is Detrimental To EV Battery Performance, Study Finds  :(

May 16th, 2017 by James Ayre

SNIPPET:

There have long been critics of the idea of widespread use of electric vehicle (EV) vehicle-to-grid (V2G) technologies for a variety of reasons, but largely in relation to the potential damage done to EV batteries, and thus reduced battery lifespan.

New research from the Hawaii Natural Energy Institute at the University of Hawaii at Manoa seems to clearly support this assertion — the extra cycling that accompanies use of an EV battery for grid balancing, even when at constant power, reduces EV battery cell performance significantly.

To be more specific, the use of an EV with V2G tech could reduce the working lifespan of an EV battery pack to under 5 years time, according to the new work.  :(  :P

The researchers note, though, that simply delaying the charging of EVs as a means of balancing the grid would have only a “negligible” effect on EV batteries, and could thus represent a better option. However, this could prove to not be the case in environments warmer than “room temperature.”

V2G Battery Degradation


https://cleantechnica.com/2017/05/16/vehicle-grid-discharge-even-constant-power-detrimental-ev-battery-performance-study-finds/

Agelbert COMMENT: Well, provided this is true, EV car manufacturers should use common sense and join with electric Utilities to offer EV car buyers a 10 year guarantee, WITHOUT ANY ADDED CHARGES, for replacing the used battery pack with a new one. I make the caveat about "no added charges" because the fun and games on the average lead acid battery "guarantee" is, and always was, a rip off.

Avoiding peaking costs is well worth the 10 year battery pack guarantee. In fact, if we had a sane government, they would REMOVE all the fossil fuel "subsidies" and, instead provide EV battery pack 10 year guarantee subsidies as a matter of National Security grid stability.

But common sense and logic in regard to renewable energy is rather difficult for the United Petro-States of America.



Fossil fueler shows up with the old "not ready for prime time" baloney disguised as prudent advice:
wattleberry 

A useful warning to users of today's batteries but of limited relevance to their successors which, if anything, will be encouraged by the disclosure of another flaw awaiting correction in a key component of a product which is still at a very early stage of evolution.

agelbert > wattleberry  

Like what, the tendrils that grow and short them? We know about that. The battery development is quite mature, thank you very much. It's the fossil fuel polluting machine called an internal combustion engine that never got past the profit over people and planet stage. Gas stations will soon go the way of the dodo bird too.

The only issue with batteries of any significance that needs improvement is rapid replacement technology. We NOW have access to electricity in FAR more places than we have access to gasoline. All we need is a small "spare" battery pack that can take us home or too a quick pack replacement location nearby if our main battery pack fails.


eveee 

 
This discussion needs more clarity. People are defining whats better in odd ways. How do we define it? By how much the EV owner saves in retail electricity costs vs how much the value of the car is reduced by battery degeneration?

I tend to feel V2G doesn't make sense, because a car is not just a battery. However, when the battery is used more, the value of the car reduces.

If you want V2G, get a PowerWall instead. Then you are only reducing the value of the PowerWall, not the car.

A PowerWall is 6500. A Model S is > 65000. 10x.

Now on the other hand, we are only looking at one storage scenario, load shifting.

Already, California is starting a demand response program that pays users not to use electricity during peaks and allow the utility to dial back demand when it needs to.

That is an area for an EV owner to benefit by allowing charging to be controlled or timed to miss expensive peak demand times. That makes total sense.

Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

 

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