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Author Topic: Electric Vehicles  (Read 65010 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #195 on: March 15, 2017, 07:16:47 pm »
Cities Shop for $10 Billion of Electric Cars to Defy Trump


‎March‎ ‎14‎, ‎2017‎ ‎3‎:‎46‎ ‎PM

Updated on ‎March‎ ‎15‎, ‎2017‎ ‎10‎:‎48‎ ‎AM

by Joe Ryan

Dozens of U.S. cities are willing to buy $10 billion of electric cars and trucks to show skeptical automakers there’s demand for low-emission vehicles, just as President Donald Trump seeks to review pollution standards the industry opposes.

Thirty cities including New York and Chicago jointly asked automakers for the cost and feasibility of providing 114,000 electric vehicles, including police cruisers, street sweepers and trash haulers, said Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, who is coordinating the effort. That would be comparable to about 72 percent of total U.S. plug-in sales last year.

While urban leaders want more low-emission vehicles to ease the role city traffic plays in altering the climate, automakers say there aren’t enough buyers. They also have advocated for relaxing rules on traditional fuel vehicles. The Trump administration , which seeks to cut regulations it sees as too costly or onerous , is poised to announce Wednesday that it will reconsider tighter standards finalized a week before President Barack Obama left office.

Quote
“No matter what President Trump  does or what happens in Washington, cities will continue leading the way on tackling climate change,” Matt Petersen, Los Angeles chief sustainability officer, said in an email.

The initiative is still in the early stages, and the cities haven’t actually ordered any of the 114,000 vehicles. Rather, they’ve taken what’s typically the first step in a formal bidding process by inviting manufactures to outline plans to supply them. Plus, some cities are asking about vehicles that don’t exist yet, such as electric fire engines and heavy-duty trucks.

The initiative could move the market nonetheless, said Colin McKerracher, an analyst with Bloomberg New Energy Finance. Orders for that many electric vehicles would be a significant driver for the U.S. plug-in market, which totaled 160,000 in 2016. While the initiative would probably be spread out over several years, it would provide electric vehicle manufacturers reliable demand as federal policies shift and gas prices fluctuate.

“I wouldn’t underestimate this,” McKerracher said. What automakers really want in investing in electrification, whether that’s for passenger vehicles or commercial-use vehicles, is certainty.” 

Trump plans to announce his intentions to re-examine  ;) vehicle-efficiency standards on Wednesday during a meeting with auto executives near Detroit. Automakers including General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV have pushed for the move, saying the standards drive up costs and don’t reflect motorists’ driving preferences.

Demonstrating Demand

The mayors, mostly Democrats, want to demonstrate that demand for low-emission vehicles is robust. “If you build it, we will buy it,” Chris Bast, Seattle’s climate and transportation policy adviser, said in an interview.

Myron Ebell, the former head of Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency transition team, said consumers are the ones who want less stringent fuel economy standards.   “This is not coming from the auto industry -- it’s coming from consumers and the auto dealers association,” said Ebell, who left the Trump transition team in January.

Carmakers have invested heavily in cutting emissions, offering 95 different varieties of hybrids and electric vehicles last year, said Wade Newton  , a spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers trade group. However, Americans still prefer gasoline-powered vehicles, he said.  

Quote
“Combined, those models were all outsold by a single model of pickup truck,” Newton  said.

Los Angeles began spearheading the effort for a joint electric-vehicle order during the run-up to the Paris climate accord in late 2015. The request to automakers went out earlier this year, initially with an order for 24,000 vehicles from Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland and Seattle. Twenty-six other cities have since joined, including Boston, Denver, Kansas City and Houston.

Nearly 40 automakers, truck makers, bus makers and others have responded so far, Petersen said.

‘Cities’ Leadership’

Tail-pipe fumes are crucial in the fight to stop global warming. Emissions from cars and trucks became the largest U.S. source of greenhouse gases last year, surpassing power plants for the first time since 1979. That makes the EPA standards that Trump is eyeing central to help the U.S. meet its goals under the Paris climate deal.

Quote
Now more than ever there is a need for cities’ leadership on climate,” Daniel Zarrilli, New York City’s senior director of climate policy and programs, said in an interview. “We really want to send a message that there is a growing market for electric vehicles -- regardless of what is happening in D.C.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-14/cities-shop-for-10-billion-of-electric-vehicles-to-defy-trump
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #196 on: March 28, 2017, 01:11:14 pm »

March 19, 2017 | Rona Fried | Policy/Trends, Transportation

Auto Industry Gets Fuel Economy Bailout, While Oil Industry Goes After Electric Cars

SNIPPET:

Quote
Have you ever seen an ad for plug-in or electric cars?  The answer is No or Rarely. Have you seen ads for SUVs? The answer is Constantly.  >:(

Research on national TV ads confirms this, and there’s also a dearth of electric vehicles (EVs) at dealerships. Either don’t stock EVs at all or have a few hidden in the back. Forget a test drive! Salespeople aren’t trained on their benefits and often aren’t aware of state and federal tax credits and rebates. Another survey finds that 60% of Americans don’t even know that plug-ins exist and that 80% have never been in an EV.

http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/auto-industry-gets-fuel-economy-bailout-oil-industry-goes-electric-cars/

Agelbert NOTE: Below, please find, evidence that the propaganda tsunami from the Fossil Fuel Planet Eaters for the past half century has been successful in dumbing down most (only 11% of those in the survey below retain the ability to see through the Polluter Propaganda) Americans:




He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #197 on: March 30, 2017, 01:50:08 pm »
Business News | Wed Mar 29, 2017 | 7:34am EDT

Daimler accelerates electric car program

Mercedes Maybach 6 car

Mercedes-Benz owner Daimler (DAIGn.DE) is accelerating its electric car program, it said on Wednesday after announcing that it had failed to cut fleet emissions in Europe for the first time since 2007.

Daimler put its emissions numbers down to customers increasing preference for sports utility vehicles (SUVs), which tend to be more polluting than sedans, making it more difficult for carmakers to hit a European target for each new car to produce no more than 95 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometer by 2020.

The company said it expects Mercedes-Benz Cars to bring more than 10 new electric cars to market by 2022 through 10 billion euros ($10.8 billion) of investment, having previously aimed to achieve the target by 2025.
 
Daimler has been set a goal of achieving a European average fleet emissions level of 100 grams for Mercedes-Benz Cars, including its Smart brand, by 2020.
 
Last year the average fuel emissions remained at 123 grams for Mercedes-Benz Cars, the same level as in 2015. It is the first time since 2007 that it has failed to cut average pollution levels despite the introduction of more fuel efficient engines throughout its range.

Daimler also said it is expecting record sales volumes for the Mercedes-Benz Cars division in the first quarter of the year.
 
"The positive sales trend continued in March," Daimler said in a statement ahead of its annual shareholder meeting.

The company also reiterated its full-year group sales and earnings targets. The car and truck maker expects a slight increase in earnings and a significant rise in sales of Mercedes-Benz Cars.


(Reporting by Ilona Wissenbach and Edward Taylor; Writing by Victoria Bryan; Editing by Christoph Steitz and David Goodman)


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-daimler-agm-idUSKBN1700N7

Agelbert NOTE: The Daimler move is just the tip of the Renewable Energy Iceberg that has just been reenergized by Trump behavior.  

You see, Mr. Trump, this is the way Germans respond when you insult them. They don't just get mad, they get a lot more than "even".


They KNOW your stunt of presenting a bill for NATO services owed by Germany had NOTHING to do with reality. They KNOW that your masters, the Fossil Fuel Fascists (plus the nuke puke power plant cheerleaders) have been trying to undermine and discredit Germany's tremendously successful transition to Renewable Energy for DECADES.


The Germans get it (finally!). The US Gooberment is OWNED by the Fossil Fuel Fascists, of which Trump is the latest tool/fool.   :P

Therefore, the Germans will now make the massive transition they have already made look like small potatoes. WHY? Because it is now a matter of national pride, not simply Renewable Energy. And everybody knows how single minded the Germans can be when the issue is National Pride. Making Germans angry is never a good idea.

As I predicted last November, when fascists come to power, they shoot themselves in the foot by going quickly into overreach mode. Trump, on several fronts, not just foreign policy, has just destroyed his political future and SHORTENED the future of the polluting energy bastards that own him. Right wing crazies never learn, thank God!  :D   

The fossil Fuel Fascists and Nuke Pukes in the USA will rue the day they insulted the Germans.
 
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #198 on: April 03, 2017, 06:05:24 pm »
Are you a VERY economical person who wants an affordable EV? Are you. like me, retired and only need transportation for groceries and doctor visits within 10 miles of your home? Well then, the E-tuk is the one I recommend, even though I still can't afford one.   

The model for Vermont would, of course, require doors like this one.  8)

They run them in Colorado, but their models don't have doors:  :(

They are already quite affordable, and do come with a lithium battery option (that jacks up the price to about $25,000  :P), but when those lithium battery pack prices get to trailer treasure budget levels (E-tuk total cost $15,000 - $20,000 WITH doors and lithium battery pack ), I will make another effort at convincing the boss (my wife) that she would look great in one!    
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #199 on: April 03, 2017, 06:38:48 pm »
The First Street Legal, Electric Tuk Tuks in the United States

Posted by eTuk Blog on Feb 23, 2017 3:54:33 PM

Three-wheeled zero-emission eTuks tout extreme versatility for both indoor and outdoor use.

 Visit many urban centers worldwide and you’ll often find yourself submersed in a sea of three-wheeled colorful auto rickshaws. Also known as “tuk tuks”, these vehicles are a widely used form of transportation around the world. Until now, a tuk tuk could not be found in the United States, let alone an electric one. Today, eTuk USA announced that all of their Department of Transportation (DOT) certified models are available for sale in the U.S.

Free eTuk ebook on how businesses are using eTuks:

http://hs.etukusa.com/free-ebook-6-industries-growing-their-business-with-etuk

The eTuks are street legal, making them great as passenger shuttles, delivery vehicles and perfect for selling food, drinks, and goods. In addition, since they are 100% electric, they can be used in interior spaces such as airports, convention centers and hotels; perfect for trade shows, vending, promotions, and so much more. For example, eTuk USA recently worked closely with a creative brand agency for their client Bhakti Chai based in Boulder, Colorado. “A modern version of the iconic Indian rickshaw, the eTuk is the perfect vehicle to bring the Bhakti Chai brand to the people,” said Judd Rogers, Lead Project Manager at Young Jenkins. “Bhakti Chai’s values of sustainability and their desire to promote their brand in a fun and engaging way are supported by this unique and versatile zero-emission vehicle. “

Each eTuk is manufactured and assembled locally in Denver, CO, allowing eTuk USA to make sure each eTuk conforms to the highest design and manufacturing standards.  The vehicles meet or exceed all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) set forth by the US Department of Transportation (DOT). “We spent over 9 months preparing for the FMVSS testing for the DOT and our results were a huge success.” Said Colin Sommer of eTuk USA. Each eTuk has a 17 Character VIN allowing it to be registered and plated at the state level.

 “We are extremely excited to bring these high quality electric, zero-emission vehicles to our clients in the U.S,” said Michael Fox of eTuk USA. “The fun nature and curb appeal of our vehicles instantly attracts attention, making them perfect for promoting a business, message or brand. The uses are limitless. ”

Request a quote (link in article link)


eTuk USA offers several models for both passenger and commercial use:

 eTuk Classic


The eTuk Classic is the smallest vehicle offered in the line. It can shuttle three passengers for up to 50–80 miles (depending on the battery choice) of good green fun before needing a recharge. Great for public transport, shuttle services, tours, mobile marketing, or even just as a fun weekend alternative around town.

eTuk Limo

The eTuk Limo is a real smooth cruiser, equipped with seats for 6 passengers; a unique feature for an electric vehicle made for the road. It is the ultimate vehicle for recreation, public transport, shuttle services, city centre tours, and resorts.

eTuk Vendor

The eTuk Vendor offers an eco friendly way to sell anything; from merchandise to ice cream to fresh fruit to hot drinks, just to name a few. If food is your thing, you can custom fabricate these eTuks to cook and sell your delectables. It is fully customizable to any vending concept and offers the same green clean fun, similar to all other eTuks.  The Vendor is available in standard or XL size.

eTuk Cargo

eTuk Cargo

The eTuk Cargo offers an incredible mix of features. The big cargo space comes in 2 versions, the basic eTuk Cargo and the eTuk Cargo XL. This vehicle is the perfect fit for one that manages a supermarket supply chain or for a restaurateur looking for a memorable and economical way to deliver food fresh from their restaurant. As compared to larger vehicles the eTuk cargo’s maneuverability makes it far easier for urban delivery.

eTuk Utility

The eTuk Utility is similar to the eTuk Cargo but has an open exterior. The big cargo space comes in 2 versions, the basic eTuk Utility and the eTuk Utility XL.  It is the perfect vehicle for maintenance companies as well as golf course greens managers.

Customization and more

All of the eTuks can be built to reflect an individual’s style, brand, or creativity. They can also be customized to fit a particular user’s needs – from designing a creative passenger experience to creating a functioning restaurant on wheels. You can order your eTuk in multiple colors schemes or start with white and custom wrap your eTuk with your own design. Take your business to the next level with digital advertising screens that can be mounted on top or the rear of the eTuk.

The eTuks can be purchased as a fleet or for individual use. Interested parties may also contact eTuk USA to inquire about setting up a partnering affiliate to create their own local eTuk urban mobility transportation company.  The urban mobility companies, such as eTuk Denver, provides a fun and unique fleet of vehicles available for urban transportation.

About eTuk USA, LLC

Headquartered in Denver, CO eTuk USA manufactures 100% electric eco-friendly tuk tuks to suit a variety of customer needs throughout the USA. The company’s electric vehicles are well suited for a variety of applications. eTuk USA licenses the design from their partner, The Tuk Tuk Factory, and is the exclusive manufacturer and distributor of the eTuk in the United States. Check out the company’s passenger eTuks for shuttle and tour operator applications or its commercial eTuks for vending, delivery, or food truck applications


http://hs.etukusa.com/blog/etuk-usa-announces-the-first-street-legal-electric-tuk-tuks-in-the-united-states
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #200 on: April 03, 2017, 06:45:52 pm »
This one is an all weather tuk-tuk but has the kind of shell I would like to see in an eTuk   

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/china-2016-new-cabin-tuk-tuk_60426118686.html

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #201 on: April 03, 2017, 08:32:50 pm »
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2017/04/02/tesla-has-its-best-quarterly-production-and-deliveries-can-it-quintuple-them/#17c3140b776b
Tesla Has Its Best Quarterly Production and Deliveries. Can It Quintuple Them?

A Tesla Model S 90D electric sedan at the company's showroom in Hanam, Gyeonggi Province, South Korea. (SeongJoon Cho/Bloomberg)


Alan Ohnsman,  Forbes Staff

Thumbing a ride at the intersection of technology, autos and mobility

Tesla started 2017 with its best-ever quarterly vehicle production and delivery results, in line with the guidance given to shareholders earlier this year. While that’s a positive development, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to CEO Elon Musk’s goal of quintupling Tesla production to a half million units by 2018.

The Palo Alto, California-based company built 25,418 Model S sedans and Model X crossover vehicles in the quarter that ended March 31, Tesla said in a statement. That was slightly above its previous quarterly high of 25,185 in last year’s third quarter.

Global deliveries of Teslas, which often cost more than $100,000 each, totaled “a little bit more than 25,000,” or 69 percent better than in the first quarter of 2016, the company said. That included about 13,450 units of Model S and 11,550 of Model X. The figures issued April 2 are preliminary estimates that could vary by 0.5 percent from final results, Tesla said.

Musk raised more than $1.2 billion in a stock and debt sale last month to help fund costs related to producing the Model 3, Tesla’s first widely affordable electric car, with a promised base price of about $35,000.

Elon Musk speaks during a ceremony in Dubai in February. (KARIM SAHIB/AFP/Getty Images)
Recommended by Forbes

The youngest U.S. carmaker also got a vote of confidence last week when Chinese social media network giant Tencent revealed in a U.S. regulatory filing that it acquired a 5% stake in Tesla worth about $1.8 billion.

Ramping up production of the Model 3 sedan, which has a waiting list of about 400,000 people who each put down a $1,000 reservation fee, poses a considerable engineering challenge for the company. Equity analysts generally have mixed views on whether the new car will launch on schedule in the third quarter of 2017 and the likelihood of Tesla achieving an overall production rate of 500,000 vehicles per year in 2018 and 1 million annually in 2020.

Tesla is also still completing its sprawling $5 billion Gigafactory battery plant near Reno, Nevada, an essential ingredient to achieve Musk’s vision of vastly expanded production of lithium-ion cells needed for both vehicle battery packs and stationary power storage units paired with SolarCity solar panels.

Meanwhile, Musk is also pursuing grand plans for SpaceX to send humans into space next year, plotting the creation of a company dedicated to tunnel boring devices and another, Neuralink, to bolster the human brain with artificial intelligence. Oh, and he has to navigate with the impact of a new U.S. administration that's pursuing federal energy and environmental policies that are antithetical to his goals of weaning the world off of carbon-based energy,

Musk isn’t afraid to set highly ambitious goals for Tesla and has a history of pushing the company hard to achieve them. Whether he can transition Tesla from a highly valued niche brand into a true mass-market automaker remains to be seen, and will unfold over the next few quarters.

Alan Ohnsman covers the intersection of technology, autos and mobility. Follow him on Twitter and LinkedIn.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #202 on: April 05, 2017, 06:44:35 pm »


Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA)

Sales of e-cars almost double in March

Sales of e-cars in Germany almost doubled in March, according to statistics by the Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA).

 Registrations of new fully electric vehicles rose 98.5 percent year-on-year to 2.191 units (0.6 percent of total registrations), while plug-in hybrids went up 77.4 percent to 2.288 units (also a share of 0.6 percent).

New registrations of petrol cars increased 21.8 percent, while diesel sales fell 2.8 percent.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-e-car-sales-double-energiewende-sea
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #203 on: April 12, 2017, 08:30:25 pm »
What if... we all drove electric vehicles? 

University of Canterbury   


Published on May 27, 2015

Dr Allan Miller, Director Electric Power Engineering Centre

Transport is a large contributor to New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions and most of these emissions are from light passenger vehicles. If we all drove electric vehicles, powered with renewable energy, we could reduce New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions significantly. However today most New Zealanders drive internal combustion engine cars and not all of our electricity generation is from renewable sources, which raises questions around whether we could convert our vehicle fleet to electric vehicles and whether this will actually reduce greenhouse gas emissions. On the other side of the argument, electric vehicles are readily available today. They’re becoming more affordable, and New Zealand has plenty of wind and geothermal renewable generation planned. This talk will look at the history of electric vehicles and their technology, and consider the impact on our electricity power system if we all drove electric vehicles. It will also touch on the environmental impacts for New Zealand and other countries from converting to electric vehicles, first-hand experience of owning an electric vehicle, and the need for skills and training in New Zealand to cope with the rise of new technologies in the electricity sector, which includes electric vehicles.

Dr Miller is the Director of the Electric Power Engineering Centre (EPECentre), a research centre that aims to promote and support the excellence in education and research of electric power engineering. He is also the Director of the GREEN Grid research programme, which is looking at integrating renewables and other new technology into the grid, and aspects of the ‘smart grid’. As Director of both the EPECentre and GREEN Grid, Dr Miller has a particular interest in new technologies, such as electric vehicles and photovoltaic solar power, the impact they will have on the electrical power system, and the need for training engineers to manage the power system and the transition to these new technologies. Allan holds a PhD and BE (Hons) in electrical and electronic engineering, and is a senior member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (SMIEEE) and a member of the Institution of Professional Engineers New Zealand (MIPENZ).
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #204 on: April 16, 2017, 03:04:27 pm »
He did not provide any details, including when the truck would be available for purchase."

Or:

1- How much the Batt Pack for this Big Rig will cost and how often you need to replace it.

2- How much HP does the motor deliver and can it pull 40 tons over the Rocky Mountains?

3- Where the Charging Stations will be located and how long it will take to charge a truck for say 500 miles of driving on a given day?

Now, on #3 specifically, even at a high throughput, it's going to take an overnight charge minimum to get one of these suckers charged up to pull 40 tons of Beer or Paper rolls for 500 miles, and that's over flat land.  When I say high throughput, I am talking some big amps here, 50A Circuits I would say is minimum.  Doable for one or two trucks perhaps.

BUT, in a typical Truckstop where the Big Rig drivers refuel each day, there can be anywhere from 10 to a 1000 Trucks parked for the night!  Those truckstops would need to be pulling the power straight off the high voltage lines coming from the power plant and have their own transformers.  The amount of juice the Joplin Petro or the Iowa 80 Truckstop would pull down every night would dwarf even an Aluminum Refining plant!




More Snake Oil from EM.  ::)

RE

Sorry RE, powering a super charging truck stop is child's play for Elon Musk or any electrical engineer. The amount of power needed is NOT the issue when you have high voltage power lines RUNNING BY THE ROADS to EVERY truck stop in the USA, as we already do. There is no "snake oil" in sending gargantuan amounts of power over high tension lines.  ;D

However, an easy solution around the truck stop thing is to electrify ALL the truck route roads. It was done for trolleys in cities 100 years ago. It can be done for large trucks that, unlike the trolleys, can run OFF the wires with batteries when they are at the delivery or pick up point.  Look Ma, NO FOSSIL FUELS!

ALL the range anxiety of battery systems VANISHES with this DOABLE solution.
SUNNY Happy face
 





And for the naysayers, one final OBVIOUS first step is to put overhead recharging truck parking areas AT ALL THE TRUCK STOPS before you fully electrify the main cargo roads. WE COULD HAVE DONE THIS 50 FORKING YEARS AGO!

THIS IS THE REASON WE DIDN'T:


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #205 on: April 16, 2017, 04:36:42 pm »
However, an easy solution around the truck stop thing is to electrify ALL the truck route roads. It was done for trolleys in cities 100 years ago. It can be done for large trucks that, unlike the trolleys, can run OFF the wires with batteries when they are at the delivery or pick up point.  Look Ma, NO FOSSIL FUELS!

If you electrified the entire interstate, it could work.  However, I don't think that is in EMs plan.  The overhead wires are to clunky a solution for EM anyhow.

You still would be using FFs or Nukes to generate the electricity, there isn't enough solar and wind capacity and it's too intermittent.


RE

That's a conditional statement. California generated over HALF of it's electricity from renewables March 11 and the percentage just keeps growing. The "intermittency" argument is a canard ever since mass production of battery storage and hydroelectric dam storage came to town.

If the decision was made to electrify the roads, by the time the infrastructure program was completed in 5 or ten years, fossil fuels and/or nukes would certainly NOT be needed to generate electricity. BUT, they would still be doing it BECAUSE of our bought and paid for clueless morons in the fossil fuel government.

I have my problems with Tesla but electric trucks make sense. I do not think generation one of an electric transport truck's first job would be long haul.  The obvious choice would be rejigging the industry for electric end point delivery.  Hubs located at logical end points of long haul routes just outside the congested areas.  Diesel for hub to hub electric for urban stop and go delivery.  The hubs would be natural spots for super charger stations as well.  If not Tesla someone else will figure it out.

EVs are somewhat more plausible for local deliveries than OTR. but you don't use Split Rigs for local work, you use 20-30' straight trucks.  In theory, you could run a logistics system using the rails and local delivery EVs running back and forth from rail hubs.  That is more plausible.  Even so though, the power draw on the local grid to pull that stunt off would be incredible.

EM isn't proposing any of that though.  He's proposing substituting EV Tractors for the current diesel ones.  That is how I read it anyhow.

RE


CFS would tell folks that diesel/electric like the railroads employ is the optimum power source until free energy is released
to the public domain. However when you have psychopathic baby killers running the show this is what we get.

I wonder how big of a puff of smoke those lithium batteries would make when a big rig erupts in JJF flames ?


CFS would have eliminated diesel long ago and used the hybrid natural gas/electric big rig with a generator charging the battery bank. They're already out there, you know. AND, with the newly patented E-CEM process that makes hydrocarbon FUELS from sea water, you can make all the CARBON NEUTRAL hydrocarbons you need WITHOUT EVER using fossil fuels.   

Device patented last year makes fuel from sea water 

Also, as to "exploding lithium battery systems":  ::)

Do ya think it would be more "fun" than THIS? :


 


WITHOUT GASOLINE, THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN:

Quote
U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year in 2006-2010. These fires caused an average of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million in direct property damage. Automobile fires were involved in 10% of reported U.S. fires, 6% of U.S. fire deaths.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #206 on: April 21, 2017, 06:21:31 pm »

Did the driver of the auto turn into the rear wheel on tandems & get hooked that way. ???
How does this happen?
 


The only way I can picture it is if the Big Rig driver made a left lane change and wasn't watching what his tandems were doing or what was happening in his side mirror.  The guy in the car was behind him trying to pass when the rig driver pulled to the left lane.  Car hits trailer and gets hooked.

Far as Cajon Pass goes, its one of the longest steep grades out there.  There are some steeper grades in the Appalachians, but none as long as Cajon.  If you got any weight at all in the trailer, it's a very LOOONG and tedious trip up the hill in low gear doing 5-10 mph.  On the way down, its a brake SMOKER, and that is with running the Jake Brake full out, which sounds like you are in a War Zone and NATO is dropping the Death from Above. (Jake Brakes are an engine braking system that put back pressure on the cyclinders, BLAP BLAP BLAP!)

This would have been a **** load worse going down the hill.  :o

RE


  for the info.   

When they get electric big rigs, these steep grades won't burn brakes because the motor itself will slow the rig without any "BLAP, BLAP" (no cylinders, of course  ;D) and boost battery life at the same time. I expect the trailers on electric rigs will be modified to include some regenerative breaking gizmo to extend battery life AND brake life too.

Yes, regenerative electric braking would be silent, and you would need electromagnets on the hubs of the trailer wheels as well.

Two problems.

First on the way UP the hill, no Batt storage system could hold enough juice to pull 40 tons up that grade without the Batt pack itself being enormous.  So you would need your electrified overhead trolley wires for this.

Second, on the way DOWN the hill, those electromagnets would get **** HOT!  The energy has to be dissipated as heat.  So you have a similar problem as with mechanical brakes, they get too hot and they smoke out on you.

RE

Good points. However, I think the heat buildup with regenerative braking systems is much less than with disk or brake pad in-your-face FRICTION. I don't have any stats with me off the top of my head, but hot brakes get a lot hotter than hot magnets. A large portion of the energy that is converted to heat with brakes is used to juice the battery bank on regenerative brake systems.

So, since manual brakes convert ALL the stopping energy to heat and regenerative brakes convert only a portion of the stopping energy to heat, I would think you have a heat load that is lower, all things being equal, with regenerative braking than you do with friction braking.

As you know, when magnets begin to heat, they lose magnetism gradually (as the heat increases) along with the ability to induce current and voltage. So, they have a sort of physics governor on how hot they can get that friction brakes do not have.   


At a certain point, the heat in magnets is such that they cannot induce current because their magnetism is zip. At that moment, they stop getting hotter and begin to cool.

As soon as they get to a temperature that they can output a significant magnetic field again, they start to get hot, which weakens the magnetic field and the amount of induced current, and so on and so forth.

Have you read any articles on comparisons that I could read? I'm sure the technology will improve, but I'm interested in the state of the art as it is now.  8)
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #207 on: April 21, 2017, 07:29:31 pm »
Quote
Did the driver of the auto turn into the rear wheel on tandems & get hooke that way.
How does this happen????

The only way I can picture it is if the Big Rig driver made a left lane change and wasn't watching what his tandems were doing or what was happening in his side mirror.  The guy in the car was behind him trying to pass when the rig driver pulled to the left lane.  Car hits trailer and gets hooked.

Far as Cajon Pass goes, its one of the longest steep grades out there.  There are some steeper grades in the Appalachians, but none as long as Cajon.  If you got any weight at all in the trailer, it's a very LOOONG and tedious trip up the hill in low gear doing 5-10 mph.  On the way down, its a brake SMOKER, and that is with running the Jake Brake full out, which sounds like you are in a War Zone and NATO is dropping the Death from Above. (Jake Brakes are an engine braking system that put back pressure on the cyclinders, BLAP BLAP BLAP!)

This would have been a **** load worse going down the hill.  :o

RE

  for the info.   

When they get electric big rigs, these steep grades won't burn brakes because the motor itself will slow the rig without any "BLAP, BLAP" (no cylinders, of course  ;D) and boost battery life at the same time. 
 I expect the trailers on electric rigs will be modified to include some regenerative breaking gizmo to extend battery life AND brake life too.

Yes, regenerative electric braking would be silent, and you would need electromagnets on the hubs of the trailer wheels as well.

Two problems.

First on the way UP the hill, no Batt storage system could hold enough juice to pull 40 tons up that grade without the Batt pack itself being enormous.  So you would need your electrified overhead trolley wires for this.

Second, on the way DOWN the hill, those electromagnets would get **** HOT!  The energy has to be dissipated as heat.  So you have a similar problem as with mechanical brakes, they get too hot and they smoke out on you.

RE

Good points. However, I think the heat buildup with regenerative braking systems is much less than with disk or brake pad in-your-face FRICTION. I don't have any stats with me off the top of my head, but hot brakes get a lot hotter than hot magnets. A large portion of the energy that is converted to heat with brakes is used to juice the battery bank on regenerative brake systems.

So, since manual brakes convert ALL the stopping energy to heat and regenerative brakes convert only a portion of the stopping energy to heat, I would think you have a heat load that is lower, all things being equal, with regenerative braking than you do with friction braking.

As you know, when magnets begin to heat, they lose magnetism gradually (as the heat increases) along with the ability to induce current and voltage. So, they have a sort of physics governor on how hot they can get that friction brakes do not have.   

At a certain point, the heat in magnets is such that they cannot induce current because their magnetism is zip. At that moment, they stop getting hotter and begin to cool.

As soon as they get to a temperature that they can output a significant magnetic field again, they start to get hot, which weakens the magnetic field and the amount of induced current, and so on and so forth.

Have you read any articles on comparisons that I could read? I'm sure the technology will improve, but I'm interested in the state of the art as it is now.   8)


Below is an article on the topic.

When I visited the Ewz manufacturer we discussed regenerative braking (I was interested in whether his units were designed to do this).  It has a lot of problems, and the efficiency is low, maybe 20% recovery possible.  The motors aren't designed to work the other way as generators.

The bigger problem with Big Rigs pulling a heavy load is that the throughput would be so big on the downhill.  You would need much thicker and heavier wiring to handle the current passing through the wires.  The batts also not designed to take so much juice so fast.  On a Big Rig with 40 tons going down Cajon Pass, I suspect the magnets would overheat in the first few minutes.

RE


---------------------
http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2016/ph240/brown1/

Regenerative Braking Efficiency
Matthew Brown
November 20, 2016
Submitted as coursework for PH240, Stanford University, Fall 2016
Everyday Driving
Fig. 1: An electric truck with regenerative braking capability, made by Smith Electric Vehicles. (Source: Wikimedia Commons)

We spend spend a huge amount of energy on transportation, and on automobiles in particular. Outside of the minor side effect of giving us unprecedented freedom of movement and enabling much of our way of life, all of that energy is "wasted". If a driver burns a tank of gasoline traveling from San Francisco to Los Angeles, 100% of the energy in the gasoline will be converted to heat and not useful for other work. Much of this energy will be converted to heat in the internal combustion engine during the combustion process, a thermodynamically required inefficiency that is the price of admission for use of heat engines. Some will be lost to friction in the drivetrain, but some of the energy in the gasoline will be converted to kinetic energy of the vehicle, the intended purpose. Whenever the driver brakes the vehicle to a stop, all of the kinetic energy of the vehicle will be converted to heat by the brakes. The idea of regenerative braking is capture some of that kinetic energy and store it, instead of discarding it as heat.
Regenerative Braking

This idea of capturing kinetic energy is not new, implementations of electrical regenerative braking have existed since at least 1906. [1] Electrical regenerative braking typically involves a vehicle propelled by an electric motor from a battery, such as the truck in Fig. 1, with the possible addition of an internal combustion engine for hybrids. If the wheels and axles of the car do work on the motor (instead of the other way around), the motor acts as a generator and energy flows back to the battery. There are other methods of recovering kinetic energy; for several years beginning in 2009, Formula One teams used flywheels to store kinetic energy. This idea has not been as popular as electrical regenerative braking, for both safety and implementation difficulty.
Efficiency

A conventional passenger internal combustion engine has an efficiency of about 0.12-0.20. [2] That is, only about 20% of the energy in the gasoline is converted to kinetic energy of the vehicle. This is dominated by the engine efficiency. In contrast, electric motors are quite efficient. While induction motors (IM) have an efficiency ranging from 0.65 to 0.94 (for urban vs highway driving scenarios), permanent magnet AC motors are even more efficient, reaching 0.83 to 0.95 for the same scenarios. [3] So speaking strictly of efficiency, the ratio of work out of the engine/motor to the energy in, there is a big benefit to using electric motors, which lend themselves naturally to electrical regenerative braking. While the efficiency is generally high for electric motors, it does change with both speed and torque. Fig. 2 displays the efficiency of the electric motor/inverter combination used by Sterkenburg et al, showing that efficiency can drop off when the system is operating near maximum torque at low speeds. [4]
Fig. 2: Efficiency for a given induction motor/inverter combination. Efficiency is dependent on operating conditions. (Source: M. Brown, after Van Sterkenburg et al. [5])
Limitations and Capabilities

To consider the efficiency of a vehicle including regenerative braking, we should consider its limitations. First, if the drive motor is being used as a generator, it is restricted by the same power limits as when it is acting as a motor. This is an problem because vehicles typically can brake much harder (with much more power) with conventional, friction- based brakes then they can accelerate forward; a vehicle regenerative braking alone will have less braking capability than a vehicle with friction-based brakes. It seems unlikely that vehicles will forego conventional brakes anytime soon. Braking power is not only limited by the motor's power rating, but by the charging power limit of the battery pack. This limit depends on the battery type (chemical composition) and changes with temperature. [5] This makes analyzing the braking power capability difficult, as a vehicle may be able to regen-brake at full power for a short period of time (a few seconds), but as the temperatures of the battery pack and inverter rise, the braking power will quickly fall. While real-world benefit may vary depending on the scenario, some simulations show that regen braking reduces external energy consumption by a little over 20% in urban driving situations. [4]

While it makes sense to attempt to recover kinetic energy for later driving, the exact amount of energy, and the rate of energy, that can be recovered is dependent on both the myriad of available motor, inverter, and battery types, and the driving scenario.


© Matthew Brown. The author grants permission to copy, distribute and display this work in unaltered form, with attribution to the author, for noncommercial purposes only. All other rights, including commercial rights, are reserved to the author.
References

[1] A. Raworth, "Regenerative Control of Electric Tramcars and Locomotives," J. Inst. Electr. Eng. 38, 374 (1907).

[2] "Tires and Passenger Vehicle Fuel Economy, Transportation Research Board of the U.S. National Research Council, Special Report 286, 2006.

[3] J. W. Schultz and S. Huard, "Comparing AC Induction with Permanent Magnet Motors in Hybrid Vehicles and the Impact on the Value Proposition, Parker Motion, 2013.

[4] S. Van Sterkenburg et al., "Analysis of Regenerative Braking Efficiency - A Case Study of Two Electric Vehicles Operating in the Rotterdam Area," IEEE 6043109, 6 Sep 11.

[5] K. Smith and C.-Y. Wang, "Power and Thermal Characterization of a Lithium-Ion Battery Pack For Hybrid-Electric Vehicles," J. Power Sources 160, 662 (2006)

Thank you.     I see that Regenerative braking needs some significant improvements for really heavy loads.  :(
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #208 on: April 23, 2017, 01:39:43 pm »
Sanitov's movE electric cargo trike costs $1595 and can haul 440 pounds 

SNIPPET:

Based on the style of a Chinese cargo bike, but incorporating Scandinavian design, this electric tricycle could go a long way toward living a car-free lifestyle.

One of the key elements for transitioning more people into a car-free or low-car lifestyle is having a bike that can carry larger loads, whether those loads are stuff or people, so that more local trips that require cargo space can be covered by bicycle. Cargo bikes fit that requirement, but riding (and balancing) a load on a two wheeler can be challenging for some people, in which case a Dutch-style two-wheeled bakfiets may not be the best choice, but a three-wheeled cargo bike might just fit the bill. The stability of a tricycle, when combined with the pickup-like hauling capacity of a cargo bike and the power of an electric drive system, may make it possible for more people to replace many car trips with a cleaner transport option.

Sanitov Bicycles, founded by a Danish designer but based in London, has just launched its new entry into the urban e-mobility market, an electric cargo trike dubbed movE. This e-trike is well-positioned as an affordable option for covering ground in the city or suburbs with a combination of pedal and electric power, while also enabling the hauling a total of about 200kg (~440 lb) of stuff (or people) in its rear cargo area. At a discounted early-bird pricing option of just $1595, the cost is much lower than many of the other electric cargo bikes on the market, and the movE could be a gateway to bike-based living without sacrificing carrying capacity.



Full article with specs:


https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/sanitov-electric-cargo-bike.html


Agelbert NOTE: I like it but I think the all weather e-tuk is more convincing to the average American (who wants an EV).  ;D


He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #209 on: April 26, 2017, 06:10:59 pm »
My whole point in posting this newz item on flying carz is this:

If every Yeah-Who & George Jetson Wanna'bee thinks there going to pony up the necessary funds
to own a toy to zip around town in like it's a convertible musclecar on steroids, they frickin' dreamin'.

The FAA's gotta' be all over this FAD like a cheap suit.

Can you imagine the **** mayhem this mode of transportation will bring ?




As a pilot I can tell you this type of flying machine is, and always has been, a great idea.
WHY? Because you need a lot more power to get to altitude than to stay there. For example, if I really had to extend the range of a twin engine aircraft (I never did have this situation, but it was in the range stats), all I had to do was shut down one engine and feather the prop at altitude. Yes, the velocity would be reduced. BUT, the RANGE (i.e. fuel used per mile of flight) would be REDUCED.

THEN, there is the fact that all the airport infrastructure doesn't have to be built and this type of electric flying machine is the best logical option for a DEMOCRATIC society.

And that is why the point AZ brings up, and the dude from that U.S. University about "regulatory" hurdles  ;), is valid. The FAA will stop this dead in its tracks, NOT because it isn't "impractical" or "unsafe". A BRS system on a small VTOL can save your arse on any engine failure. A BRS system is a ballistic fired shute that looks like a mortar. I had them on ultralights 30 years ago. They aren't practical on larger aircraft but they are old hat for small flying machines.

As AZ alluded to, and I will explain in detail, the ability to fly from point A to point B in our fascist paradise is RIGIDLY controlled by our gooberment. THAT is why we've got GATES to the skies called airports. The gooberment does not want citizens to be able to fly hither and yon without having to go through the capitalist/fascist GATE structure. The elites don't CARE about that because the whole thing is built for them! Did you know you can go STRAIGHT to fancy resorts in the Dominican Republic from the U.S. WITHOUT going through customs at either end? Well yeah, you CAN if you are RICH and have an executive jet available. The LAWS are not for them, boys and girls.


Very well put AG.

Don't get me wrong, sign me up for one of these 4th Reichstag's windup plastic run-abouts, there cool as ****.

I'm seasoned, AG's seasoned. We both possess a ticket to ride. I'm not current at this point in time. 30 days of
review in reg's, weather, sim time, left seat with an instructor & whaa-la I'm a Legal Eagle again. Oh, yeah & the medical.  :icon_mrgreen:

SOOOOOO, it's complicated & for "1st timers" that's a BIG hurdle.
The point is, the ego is being tickled & the brain is in the caboose. Eye candy with big consequences.
If you'll notice in the vid, no one was aboard. That was a big boy toy drone test flight. These cats haven't even
received GOOBERmint approval to have a test pilot flight yet.

I'll take a Cherokee 6, an attractive female hostage, leave Lauderdale airspace & head to little Guana Cay for lunch.
 

  

So, you've flown a six? I put quite a few hours into those birds way back when. Here's a short war story from my air taxi rat days:

It was the San Juan to Vieques flight in a 260 hp Cherokee six sometime in 1969. The folks that lived in Vieques would fly to San Juan and buy stuff to take back to their island (half of it - the other half was routinely being blown to smithereens as a bomb fun and games place for the Navy and Marines - it looked like the moon  :P).

Vieques islanders were  sort of country bumpkins to the average cosmopolitan San Juan dweller. Country folks are very practical and aren't real particular about appearances.  ;D On this particular flight I had some people carrying sacks of potatoes (I eyed these carefully when I did my weight and balance  ;)) and a lady that had some live and healthy (and noisy) chickens. I can't imagine why, but country folks also smell a bit ripe on a hot day in the tropics... Perhaps it's fear of flying that makes them perspire a bit more than normal, but I was always glad for my tiny flip down pilot seat window...  :D

Well we, took off and encountered a lot of wind noise. I called the tower at the international airport 5 miles east of my air taxi base (Isla Grande airport) and asked for a touch and go, which they approved. It seems the latch over the door had not sealed the door properly.  I had a friend riding in the right seat (he wasn't a pilot) and I asked him to see if he could force the door open a bit and then try to pull it closed again (we are in flight approaching the international airport at this time). He did that (sound of torrent of air going by at 150 mph) and the lady with the chickens screamed. The chickens weren't too happy about that either.  :D

It didn't work. So, we landed, slowed down and did that again until we got that silly latch to catch right. Without ever coming to a stop, we just took off again and flew east over the north coast of Puerto Rico and then southeast to the island of Vieques.

The landing was "routine" but I should explain to you what that entailed at Vieques. They have a weird runway there.  :P The runway, when you are landing going east (which is almost always) is much higher than the other end. To further complicate matters, the runway elevation goes UP after the threshold before it starts to go DOWN.

All that is a great advantage when you are taking off but a bit tricky when you are landing. AZ, you obviously know about ground effect and low wing aircraft fun and games. A runway sloping down hill is a ground effect nightmare that can lead you to overrun the runway if you don't watch it!

I don't know if you have ever flown a FULLY LOADED TO THE GILLS Cherokee six. They are very squirrelly on landing. You know that the normal drill is to round out and then flare out, right? Well that would result in way to much FLOAT at Vieques.

So, I came up with a trick to deal with that.  I would establish approach speed at a fixed pitch attitude. That's right, I would NOT flare. I would bring her over the threshold watching for the slight runway rise just before the downhill part started WITH MY HAND ON THE FLAP HANDLE (I had full flaps at this time, of course  8)). As I reached the bump I would lower the flaps to touch the main wheels without any pitch change and remove all flaps and hit the toe brakes. It worked like a charm. The people, potatoes and chickens all arrived safely. 

I taught a few other pilots to do that and they said, HEY, it works! Flaps are just supposed to be there to steepen the glide path on approach when you apply them, not when you remove them, so we all agreed the FAA would not understand our cool trick and that we would never tell the feds about it.

Getting back to the Electric Airplane subject, most people are not aware that aircraft internal combustion engines mostly fail when you are at full power, which happens to be when you are taking off and need that engine the most. Electric motors, can fail at any time. But when they do, it's almost always temperature related. Which means they will rarely fail on take off because they are fresh! For large EV flying machines, having a bunch of motors will make them far more reliable than internal combustion or even jet engines (less moving parts to fail).

I can imagine the FAA coming up with some BULLSHIT about having to learn engine motor out procedure for 30 different configurations on an Electric bird with 30 motors just to keep anybody from ever being able to check out in it. That's what they do. 
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

 

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