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Author Topic: Electric Vehicles  (Read 63169 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: Electric Vehicles
« Reply #240 on: July 23, 2017, 12:59:06 pm »
Quote
Agelbert
Zach, can you recommend a maintenance cost comparison study of an EV versus a gas guzzler covering several years? The best info I could find says the cost for an EV is 3 to 4 cents a mile versus 5 or 6 cents a mile for a gas guzzler. I think that operation and maintenenace for and EV is more like about a tenth of gas guzzzler costs. Nobody wants to just come out and say that gasoline is GUARANTEED to go UP while electricity is GUARANTEED to go DOWN as the years go by.

Also, I wish the up front cost of the vehicle was NOT figured into the operation and maintenance in these cost estimates. The glaring difference in actual day to day costs is what is important after you buy or lease the vehicle.
 
For example a "used" 2016 Leaf with less than a 1,000 miles on it can be purchased (WITH the full factury guarantee!) for less than $17,000. THIS is the kind of vehicle that should be used for cost comparison of operation and maintenance. I'm sure that leaf can be operated and maintained for much less than half what it costs to do the same for a gas guzzler.

I welcome comments and suggestions on how to get the best, accurate and objective info.



Matt > agelbert • an hour ago
Taking into account what we paid for our solar panels, we're probably paying $0.022 per mile for our EV.

My 2004 Honda probably costs $0.083 per mile just for gas. I'm probably averaging about $0.04/mile for ICE maintenance: oil change, timing belt, oil pan, etc... No point including tires, wipers, 12v battery, etc, since both cars have those, and they are very cheap compared to their lifetime. Hopefully, I'll never have to find out how much it takes to replace the EV's drive battery.

Edit: So that leaves a 10 cent difference per mile, before taking into account the damage done by fossil fuels. If you think a carbon tax should be $100/metric ton, add $0.03 per mile for the Honda.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/07/22/electric-car-faq-answers/
Agelbert NOTE: A ten cent a mile difference, when you figure 100,000 miles, is a BIG deal!

Quote
Matt > agelbert
Taking into account what we paid for our solar panels, we're probably paying $0.022 per mile for our EV.

My 2004 Honda probably costs $0.083 per mile just for gas. I'm probably averaging about $0.04/mile for ICE maintenance: oil change, timing belt, oil pan, etc... No point including tires, wipers, 12v battery, etc, since both cars have those, and they are very cheap compared to their lifetime. Hopefully, I'll never have to find out how much it takes to replace the EV's drive battery.

Edit: So that leaves a 10 cent difference per mile, before taking into account the damage done by fossil fuels. If you think a carbon tax should be $100/metric ton, add $0.03 per mile for the Honda.

Well, "probably"  plus "probably averaging about" minus a "probably" gives a probable figure excluding the definitely huge battery replacement factor.  0.022 / (0.083   0.04) , which is what I asked about is 17.8% which is a lot bigger than the "tenth" you must have just guessed at, and when the battery replacement is accounted for, and the cost of electricity used for charging, things would be VERY different.

You DEFINITELY have some fascinating cherry picking abilities, gaspadine. What part of "gasoline is going to cost MORE MONEY and Electricity is going to cost LESS, along with batteries costing LESS as the years go" by do you DELIBERATELY FAIL TO UNDERSTAND? 

Probably ALL OF THE ABOVE. And then there is that other "minor" cost that you flat REFUSE to acknowledge is real. It must be fun to live in such a world of cherry picked fantasy. 

The following video is from 2013, which may be considered the "good old days" now, since 2015, then 2016 were progressively hotter yet. And 2017 is. so far, HOTTER than  the hottest year!  Palloy and his "real world" f(FANTASY) ossil fuel pals were not listening then and they are not listening now.


The PRICE of Carbon


The fossil fuel industry is NOT PAYING IT; WE ARE! 

   

Here's an article Palloy will disagree with and ridicule as "garden variety" or "irrelevant" or disdain with some other pejorative bit of puffery.

The only part of the article he will agree with is that the Oil and Gas industry ACTUALLY gave solar power technology development a boost back in the 70s because PV supplied power to very remote locations the fossil fuelers tend be located at for new profit over planet piggery.  ;D

The FULL story of how we-the-people have supported these fossil fuel and nuclear welfare queens is there from the start until this day. The appearance of profitability ignores our tax money for research and continuous subsidy.

Palloy and his Fossil fueler pals have an amazing ability to ignore, not just externalized costs, but the giveaways from we-the-people! They have the brass balls to compute those subsidies as part of the ROI. That's a blatant accounting falsehood. Without subsides they are not profitable, period. But Palloy and friends will continue with their fantasies, come hell or high water. So it goes.  :P

SNIPPPET 1:

The bias against renewable funding and support is clear. Recent analysis found that over the first fifteen years an industry receives a subsidy, nuclear energy received an average of $3.3 billion, oil and gas averaged $1.8 billion,Fto and renewables averaged less than $0.4 billion.

Renewables received less than one-quarter of the support of oil and gas and less than one-eighth of the support that nuclear received during the early years of development, when strong investment can make a big difference. Yet even with this disparity, more of our energy supply now comes from renewables than from nuclear, which indicates the strength of renewables as a potential energy source.


SNIPPET 2:

The momentum behind renewable development came to a rapid halt as soon as Ronald Reagan was elected president. Not only did he remove the solar panels atop the White House, he also gutted funding for solar development and poured billions into developing a dirty synthetic fuel that was never brought to market.

Unnatural Gas: How Government Made Fracking Profitable (and Left Renewables Behind)

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/unnatural-gas-how-government-made-fracking-profitable-and-left-renewables-behind

The TRUE COST of Carbon

Here's another video (over 3 years old, but still imperative viewing), with lots of no nonsense MATH, that a certain mathematican called Palloy has difficulty with due to his "UNreal world" world view. 

The bottom line for the reality based community (which excludes Palloy  and the entire fossil fuel industry biosphere wrecking crew   ) is that a dollar based cost benefit analysis misses the funfamental idea that there are rights that life forms have that cannot be price negotiated.

Palloy won't watch it but I urge you reality based folks to view it and pass it on to other humans, like yourselves, who do not lack common sense.  ;D

What is the Social Cost of Carbon Emissions?

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matt 10:37

 

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