Renewable Revolution

Open Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: AGelbert on January 02, 2014, 07:39:12 pm


Title: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on January 02, 2014, 07:39:12 pm
(http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0502.gif) Agelbert's Aerobatic Adventure - In A NON-Aerobatic Aircraft :o  :P   (http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0503.gif)

Once upon a time, I was young and a newly licensed Private Pilot. I had racked up about 53 hours of flying time, passed my 4 hour written test and my one hour flight test so I figured I had most of this flying stuff all figured out. I was now starting my commercail pilot training which required a total of 160 hours. A lot of this time was solo flying practicing advanced maneuvers such as chandelles, lazy eights, pivotal altitude hold while circling a ground reference point, several kinds of stalls, engine out procedures, emergency landing procedures and some extended cross country flights.

But most of that was in the future. I had already flown my mother as my mandatory first passenger now that I was a bona fide licensed pilot and could legally carry passengers (without charging for it, of course).

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213205316.jpeg)
I modified the last part of the tail number on the cherokee 140 above. It's not the one I flew but is identical in appearance and paint job.

This bright sunny day I boarded Zero Nine Whisky (N--09W tail number) Cherokee 140 trainer aircraft to accumulate some flying time towards my minimum required for a commercial pilot license. Zero Nine Whiskey was my favorite of the aircraft. It had a pretty paint job and was the plane I had soloed in. It was an old friend to me by now. I didn't have any particular plan except to go out over the everglades practice area and repeat some of the maneuvers I already knew. 

Of course, being young, curious, over confident and foolish, I wanted to expand my knowledge of how the aircraft responded in somewhat, shall we say, higher pitch attitudes than the every day dull training fare.

If you have ever heard the expression, "pushing the envelope", let me tell you that it is originally and aviatior's expression stolen from us by you ground pounders to make your dull lives seem more exciting!

Yes, dear readers, Agelbert was fixin' to push the envelope.

The flight "envelope" is the airspeed range and pitch attitude (angle above or below the horizon) as well as bank angle range of the wings that the aircraft is designed to fly at. If you leave the envelope when you are in the air, you are entering the danger zone. WHY? Because the aircraft can suffer catastrophic structural damage, engine, failure or a combination thereof. If this happpens near the ground, you are done. If it happens 4 to 5 thousand feet up, you MIGHT be able to recover and live through it. You have a little more time but your survival usually depends more on luck than skill.

Recently licensed Private Pilots are not too long on skill...

I taxied out, took off and flew northwest about 10 miles to the practice area. This area over the Florida Everglades was (in 1966) in the middle of nowhere. There were a few roads near some farms that had boundaries by the glades but otherwise it was all swamp and you were alligator food if you went down there.

(http://www.desmoinesflyingclub.com/planeimages/c140a2aturn.jpg)
Cherokee in cruise flight at about 115 mph over Ohio, not the Everglades.

On the plus side for a designated practice area, it was flat, far away from people or cows (our flight school had been told to NOT allow the student pilots to practice low approaches to emergency landings near cows because it caused abortions), and arrival and departure aircraft traffic to Opa Locka or Miami International Airports. Besides, it was within radio range of several ATC towers so if you had an emergency, you could set 121.5 on your radio and call for help before you made a forced landing even if you were at a low altitude.

Out over the practice area at 2,000 feet, I practiced a few engine out procedures and checked the area for potential landing sites that I could reach with the power off. It didn't look all that great but I would pick a spot and pretend I had to put it down right there. At about 300 feet I would apply full power and climb away looking down at the spot to see what sort of a mess I would have made if I had actually landed there.

I then decided to try something new. I knew I might have some "difficulties" so I climbed to 5,000 feet (the recommended altitude for stall and spin practice). I may write about an exciting and humorous adventure with spins someday but that was still in the future for me then. For this adventure, I must explain to you what a "stall" is before I explain my imaginative variation of it.

An aircraft flies because a low pressure area forms over the upper surface of the wing in direct proportion to the velocity of said wing and the angle of the wing to the air movement (relative wind). The point is that the wings are sucked up and the aircraft flies. 

Straight and level flight (arrow) ----> produces enough lift to not go up or down. When you pull back on the control point the aircraft nose higher, you are increasing the pitch attitude. A Cherokee 140 normally flies at a pitch attitude of a few degrees (positive pitch).

A stall has nothing to do with the engine. A stall is what happens when the low pressure area over the wing surface gets disturbed (burble point) by too high a pitch attitude and the wings no longer produce lift. The maneuver is performed by gradually increasing the pitch attitude with a certain designated power on or power off condition (or something in between) until the nose shakes a little and noses down as the wings hit the burble point.

Stall recovery is performed by establishing a negative pitch (nose below normal glide pitch) to pick up flying speed while applying full power simultaneously. Panicky student pilots have a tendency to point the nose down steeply and upset their flight instructors. After some practice, students learn that the secret of stall recovery is just to put that nose down to a few degrees below glide pitch and, of course, keep the plane from banking with the rudder so you don't get into an inadvertent stall-spin.

The most challenging stall recovery is a power on stall because the nose is pitched about 40 degrees up (much higher than for a power off stall) and the burble point stall break is snappy. It's also harder to keep the plane straight to avoit a spin entry due to one wing stalling before the other.

Well, I knew all that. I had that down! Let us see, I said to myself, what happens when we REALLY pick up the nose with full power?   (http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0502.gif)


I pushed the throttle all the way and pulled the nose as far back as I could about 60 degrees). The effect was a much more violent stall (imagine a bucking bronco) break and the plane trying to spin this way and that. But I recovered within a few hundred feet of altitude loss which was well within limits for a power on stall.

I thought about that for a while. I wanted a 90 degree pitch up nose position (straight up!) but, even with full power, I couldn't get there before the plane stalled. Bummer.
So, I applied full power again and lowered the nose to pick up maneuvering speed (129 mph designated aircraft speed where structural damage could not occur from control movements). ZOOM!

At 129 mph I gradually lifted the nose all the way to 90 degrees! Yippee! There I was, going straight up like a fighter pilot!

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213210450.png)

I then waited for the stall break and the nose to pitch forward. And I waited. And I waited. The airspeed went down past 60, which was no flaps stalling speed, and kept going down. Fifty, forty, THIRTY (WTF!), TWENTY!!! (I pulled the power off and tried to nose the aircraft over - no response - I was going too slow to ahve ANY EFFECT on the fight controls - I was basically a rock tossed in the air at this point approaching the peak of a ballistic trajectory), TEN, ZERO!

Now it gets really good. The cherokee 140 is a utility trainer aircraft. That means it is capable of withstanding 4.4  G forces plus and 2.2 G minus. Aerobatic aircraft can handle 6.6 both ways with out structural issues. I knew this. I knew I was not in a Citabria or Stearman that could do whip stalls and tail slides and hammer head stalls at air shows just for fun. Cherokees have a stabilator (instead of an elevator) on the tail that is quite easy to break. If that breaks, you are dead, period.

You DO NOT want to stress the stabilator, EVER.

I went weightless. My pilot briefcase began floating in the air next to me. The wind noise was picking up rapidly and the airspeed still read ZERO!

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213210610.png)

Panic time! I decided to release the controls because ANYTHING I did would translate BACKWARDS because the aircraft was "flying" backwards. I did NOT want to bust that stabilator. I wanted to get that nose DOWN somehow. As a kid I had thown gliders in the air and watched them tail slide and whip stall to a nose down pitch and recover. I was counting on that but my confidence level was measurable in fractions of an inch at the moment.

Hanging by my seatbelt, I experienced the most violent forward whip stall forward you can imagine. That is probably what save my life. Had the stabilator caused a BACKWARD whip stall, it would probably have broken off. Without the ability to control the pitch attitude, even with engine power, a small aircraft will nose hard into the ground destroying the airframe and killing the pilot.

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213215342.png)

I watched the blue sky instantly change to brown everglades. It was weird. The nose did not just go from straight up to straight down; it went from straight up to a pendulum movement. I still hadn't touched the controls. The airspeed had, of course, been increasing all along but it didn't show because aircraft measure airspeed with a pitot tube that faces the relative wind. Planes don't generally fly backwards. LOL!

The moment the plane whipped over to the glades facing pendulous rocking movement, the airspeed went from zero to ABOVE VNE (Never Exceed Velocity - about 160). The airspeed indicator was PEGGED!

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213224524.png)

That was another fright. I realized the flip had occurred above maneuvering speed and was sweating the possibility I had lost my stabilator.

I  reached for the controls and, ever so gradually, applied back pressure to get out of the dive without tearing the wings off. Also, if I pull back too hard and too quick, that was another chance to over stress the stabilator (if I still had one) that I didn't want to risk.

It worked. I hadn't lost my stabilator! Gravity returned and I got the airspeed back to 115 mph normal cruise. I had lost about 3,500 feet. I applied power.

Nothing. Engine failure. Argh.

I turned on the electric fuel pump (this aircraft has a manual fuel pump but uses the electric fuel pump to aid starting and engine restart in the air) and set 121.5 emergency frequency on my radio and looked for a place to put Zero Nine Whiskey down.

At 800 feet the best place looked like a dirt embankment in the Everglades. I began a final approach and had the mike in my hand to begin transmitting mayday when the engine sputtered on. Believe it or not, my greatest relief at the moment was not having to embarrass myself by radioing an emergency.

Such is the foolish pride of the young.

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213210345.png)

I hooked the mike back on to the panel and changed to tower frequency, radioed that I was inbound about 15 miles northwest and brought her home (without turning the electric fuel pump off until I was safely on the runway).

I taxied to the grass parking area at the fight school and shut own the aircraft.

Then I noticed something that needed to be taken care of. The cowling above the panel was full of dirt! The whip stall had been so violent that every speck of dirt on the floor had been thrown up and then forward and down onto the cowling as I applied gradual back pressure to pull the aircraft out of the dive. The floor looked like someone had done a great vacuuming job on it. LOL!

I called a line boy and said there was a lot of dirt on the cowling that should be cleaned up. He looked at it  and asked, How did that get there?". I said, "I don't know." and quickly walked into the office to sign out...".

NOTE: Zero Nine Whisky was NOT damaged. I flew over 50 hours in that aircraft subsequently along with hundreds of hours by other pilots and flight instructors.

I pre-flighted VERY closely the aircraft a day later and, had I seen the least bit of evidence of stabilator stress, would have reported it.

I know, I should have reported it anyway but I was foolishly and pridefully afraid to besmirch my pilot record because it would reduce my chances of getting hired by the airlines.


All I can say is the Piper Cherokee 140 is an excellent trainer aircraft.

So that is how a foolish young man happened to cheat death in 1966.


If you liked this true story by Agelbert, be nice and register. 

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-181113150826.png)
Agelbert giving his first lecture on Renewable Energy.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)

Have a pleasant day.   ;D

Renewable Revolution (http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/465/465823jzy0y15obs.gif)

 
 

  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/index.php)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on January 18, 2014, 06:56:08 pm
MKing says about CH4
Quote
It is one of the more useful molecules out there in the long run,

Sure, from YOUR rather narrow definition of "useful" (It's a hydrocarbon!). 

But in the BIOSPHERE that we all depend on, THE most useful molecule in the hydrocarbon pantheon is this one:

Quote
Ethylene: The Ripening Hormone

http://postharvest.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/PC2000F (http://postharvest.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/PC2000F)

Ethylene causes fruit to ripen and plants to die on schedule so they can  be recycled into the biosphere. In short it is key to the life cycle of all earthlings. Now THAT is REALLY useful! So you see, I DO recognize that there is ONE hydrocarbon that we really need AS LONG AS WE DON'T BURN IT!(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)

(https://gcps.desire2learn.com/d2l/lor/viewer/viewFile.d2lfile/15524/8485/642px-Ethylene-2D.png)
C2H4 (Ethylene)



(http://media.materialsviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/bowl-of-fruit.jpg)
Some products produced by ethylene that fossil fuelers and other LIVING BEINGS NEED  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)


My favorite HYDROCARBON!  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png)


What!? You mean to tell me Agelbert, the quixotic crusader against fossil fuel folly in all its poisonous and biosphere trashing forms has some hydrocarbon love? (http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif)

YEP! (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)

Back when I was trying to get through pre-med in the daytime while I worked as a computer analyst in the FAA at night (I was promoted from air traffic control to Automation) I took Botany, one of many biology courses the curriculum required. 

Botany was a lot of fun. I learned how they keep grapes from having seeds in them (Gibberrelins) and all sorts of interesting facts about plant biochemistry. But the story of the orange grove fruit warehouses in Florida in the early 20th century was one I liked especially because it is a great example of the scientific method in action. Read on. 8)

The vast orange groves in Florida around 1910 had giant warehouses where picked fruit would be stored while they reached the proper stage of ripeness before shipping them to markets. The oranges are picked nearly full size and still green. They are tough at that stage and not easily bruised by the picking process.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_39Pf4v24ows/TIuQCb6hjSI/AAAAAAAAB1I/EKcSIomKmYk/s640/Grapefruits+web.jpg)

The crop is stored in heated warehouses to finish the ripening process. The oranges, as they ripen, obtain their pretty orange color. The fruit expands somewhat and becomes more fragile but, since they already have them packed in bags or crates ready for shipping, they get to markets pretty well unscathed.


(http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-new/ehow/images/a04/an/ru/way-store-oranges-800x800.jpg)

Well, around 1910, the orange growers were sold on electrification of their orange ripening warehouses. They had hitherto used kerosene heaters which sometimes caused a warehouse to burn down and they liked the idea of controlling the temperature within a few degrees to fine tune the ripening process. Boy, were they in for an unpleasant surprise!  :o

They spent small fortunes in electrifying the warehouses with lights and elecric space heaters. The picking season came and they happily picked the crop and stored it in the new and improved hot shot electric heater warehouses. They waited for the oranges to ripen, fill out and turn orange in color. And waited. And waited. Those silly, stubborn oranges refused to ripen! They stayed hard and green. (http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif)  ???

A bright bulb among the growers, all of whom had ALWAYS believed (wrongly) that HEAT is what makes fruit ripen, stated that there must have been something besides heat in those old kerosene heaters that made the fruit ripen.

They got a team of scientists to do some experiments with green oranges with and without kerosene heaters at various temperatures and the oranges exposed to the kerosene heaters DID ripen as they always had before irrespective of temperature. Next they identified all the products of combustion of the long chained hydrocarbon called kerosene.

We all know when you burn (oxidize) a hydrocarbon, you get CO2 + H2O. But that is ONLY if you have COMPLETE combustion. A kerosene heater, as many family tragedies can attest to, puts out lots of INCOMPLETE combustion products like CO (carbon monoxide) that will kill you quickly and quietly.

But there is another product of incomplete combustion that burning kerosene puts out. It's called Ethylene. 

This tiny molecule is a miracle of plant biochemistry. The scientists determined that ethylene was making the oranges ripen! So the growers had to put the kerosene heaters back in.

Well, they got electric lights out of the deal and plant science took a giant step forward so everything worked out for the best.  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif)


The obvious follow up question is, where does the ethylene, now defined as a plant ripening hormone, come from when the oranges ripen on the tree?  ???  From the orange as long as it is connected to the tree when it turns color. Henceforth, whether on the tree or off it, the orange itself keeps putting out ethylene until it rots in preparation for the orange seeds to grow.  Pretty neat, huh?  ;D

This was a revolutionary development in botany in general and fruit growing in particular. The study of plant hormones grew explosively from that point and many mysteries were (and still are being) solved about how these miraculous photosynthetic life forms function.

What is so amazing to me is that such a simple molecule can do so much. Have you ever put bananas on top of a bowl of fruit containing apples in the bottom? Sure, everyone has. Have you noticed how fast those bananas get overripe when they are on top of apples? YEP, ripe apples are one of the highest ethylene producers out there! :o Those bananas produce much less but when the added apple ethylene whacks them, here come the brown spots!  :P


(http://www.wpromote.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/fruit-bowl.jpg)

Unless you are going to eat the above bananas TODAY, this is a No No! The bananas will ripen too fast!   ???  Set them a few feet away and they will keep longer.  ;)

So now you know that, if you have a well ventilated area and happen to have brought some green bananas from the store that you are worried about "going bad" before ripening or just refusing to turn yellow as sometimes happens, get a small hurricane kerosene lamp and put it in the vicinity of the bananas and I guarantee you they will ripen. You can impress your spouse with your botany smarts.  ;D

(http://www.iknowvegetables.com/images/vegetables/original/green-bananas.jpg)
(http://www.in.all.biz/img/in/catalog/122099.jpeg)
(http://www.carlagoldenwellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bananastages.jpg)


Behold, the humble ethylene molecule, my favorite hydrocaron.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Ethylene-CRC-MW-3D-balls.png)

(http://plantphys.info/plants_human/fruitripe.gif)
Ethylene (IUPAC name: ethene) is a hydrocarbon with the formula C2H4 or H2C=CH2. It is a colorless flammable gas with a faint "sweet and musky" odor when pure.[3] It is the simplest alkene (a hydrocarbon with carbon-carbon double bonds), and the simplest unsaturated hydrocarbon after acetylene (C2H2).

Ethylene is widely used in chemical industry, and its worldwide production (over 109 million tonnes in 2006) exceeds that of any other organic compound.[4][5] Ethylene is also an important natural plant hormone, used in agriculture to force the ripening of fruits.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene)


Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on July 29, 2014, 09:12:59 pm
If you think it all ends here, you will consider risking your life to save a stranger an irrational act, period.   (http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif)(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/bc3.gif)  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183438.bmp)


I was faced, one day at a beach family outing when I was 34 with 2 small children, with a life or death situation. My dentist brother in law, an expert swimmer and scuba diver, was drowning in a rip current and 14 ft high wave breakers.

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-290714210517.png)

It was afternoon and my sister had scolded her hubby because he was reading a book on dental practice instead of "playing with his children like my brothers do". John wasn't feeling too great that day but he responded to the henpecking by going in. I had noticed that the tide was going out and some rather large "lumps" on the water surface indicating rapid current (about 8 inches high in otherwise calm water in a tide pool) were visible and I said, "It looks kind of rough out there".
He said he could handle it and it would be okay. My sister just looked at me crossly. John went in and was playing with some kind of raft with his kids that would just reach the surf at the edge of the opening in the tide pool lagoon and swing back in.

I knew that dynamic was going to change and the outgoing tide would soon try to suck anyone near the reef opening at the edge of the tide pool lagoon (about 50 yards from shore) into the surf and rip tide. I told my wife to gather up the kids and keep them out of the water. I sat on the beach while John began to drown.

My 36 year old brother and Vietnam vet, who had supported John in this dangerous game when I appeared concerned, now froze on the shore with a worried look on his face. Somebody grabbed the small raft his 8 year old son was on and managed to get it to shore (it was some good samaritan with red hair in the water that we never did talk to later).

My brother, over his momentary paralysis and spurned to action, ran up to me and said we had to get John. He had a big of piece of driftwood for floatation. He rushed to the shore and waited for me as the seconds ticked by and John was floundering, unable to swim to shore.

I stood there a second and thought to myself, "You know, you are going to die out there." I answered my own thought , "If I stay here, I'll never be able to live with myself so God will have to decide if I make it through this or not". The fear was momentary and rational. I dispensed with it with a practice I had of sticking to my principles come hell or high water. It wasn't heroics, it was habit. And BABY, this was HIGH WATER!

My wife later said we looked like children in the waves because they were so big. So my brother and I hyperventilated for about 20 seconds to get some extra oxygen in our lungs and dove in. My bro lost the driftwood in the turbulent water (just as well - it could have bopped us on the head and killed us). We got to John lickity split. Getting to him was like being on a river in the right direction.

Of course when we got to him, we had to turn around and try to hold his head above water. The moment we reached him and I said, "We've got you, John", he gave up. His head went under and I was under too and watched bubbles coming out of his mouth and his body totally relaxed. We pulled him up only to be slammed by the most god-awful monstrous wave power I have ever experienced. My femur bones were being bent by the force of the turbulence!
My fear returned with some terror thrown in. We had to fight to get back up to the surface only to be slammed back down by a new breaker. All the while we were trying to swim to shore and getting weaker. After one particularly powerful wave, I looked at my brother and yelled, "We're going to DIE out here!". He yelled, "A man has to think of himself!".

Our only chance to make it to shore was to let John go. We did. I glimpsed him floating away underwater. That was the most heart tearing, sad and anguished moment of my life all wrapped up into one desperate attempt to survive with my principles intact.

We began swimming to shore with the waves still sending us down a couple of seconds after surfacing. The salt water mixing with my breathing felt like fire burning my throat trachea. The people on shore didn't get closer. I lost sight of my brother. I was yelling "Praise the Lord" even as I ran out of energy in those brief moments on the surface.

My brother, much stronger than me and an agnostic, was concentrating on getting back to shore by cursing the ocean, the waves , the current and whatever else he could think of to keep himself "mad enough" to keep fighting for his life (I learned this from him later as I could not hear him in the tumult at the time).

About 15 minutes into this ordeal, I lost all my energy. I couldn't speak and I couldn't swim. I would send the commands to my arms and legs and they just WOULD NOT MOVE! I was in very good shape at that time of my life and had no muscle cramps or anything like that. I sank into the depths.

I made myself a promise that, even though I was sure to drown, I would absolutely refuse to breathe until my autonomic response kicked in after losing consciousness; I wasn't going to DO that burning throat thing any longer (later on my doctor said that saved my life but I'm not so sure). I began "breathing" by pushing the air in my mouth into my lungs and back. I thought of my wife and kids and asked God to take care of them.

I was totally convinced I was a goner. For some reason, I stopped feeling that urgency to breathe. Perhaps it was something like the nitrogen narcosis that divers get but that only happens at depth with scuba gear. I think the Guy upstairs gave me a break here (You know, that sky God atheists don't believe in).  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp) 

I became quite relaxed, still unable to move and my surroundings got darker. I figure I was about 20 feet down when I felt some rocky bottom passing under my right toe. The force of the waves was slight here but my movement with the current was plainly felt. This woke me from my torpor.

I concentrated on my foot and tried with all my might to flex my foot and anchor my toe on the reef surface below. It worked and I cut my toe. This woke me up more. I still, believe it or not, did not need to breathe. I waited for the current to shift direction and slid along the bottom with the top of my right foot. When the current flipped again, I would anchor my toe on the reef. I did this 5 or six times. The only part of me that I tried to move was my right foot and toe. I still did not have the strength or muscle coordination to swim. It was getting shallower (warmer water) and my surroundings lighter.

All of a sudden the water got murkier and the bottom hard to hold because it was sandy instead of rocky and, like a submarine surfacing, my head popped out of the water.
Now a normal person takes a deep breath here, right? Not me. I was in terror of losing my grip on the bottom (it was sandy with no toe holds) so I plunged back under to "hold position" until the current shifted. I had glimpsed my sister yards away and I realized I was on the shore so I weakly and carefully stood up, breathed in deep and vomited my guts out.

I raised my head and stared into my sister's eyes. She looked at me and said, "You tried". John died that day. I ended up fishing my brother out as he was cursing his way in (We lay him on the beach and he was okay after about 20 minutes) and keeping John's teenage kid (he had two of his kids there that day) from drowning trying to fish his father's body out.

We got the body as it managed to float a ways away from the rip tide and bump up against the far end of the tidal pool reef. We did CPR to no avail; he had a pulse from my pushing on his sternum while my sister (a registered nurse) cleared the air passage and breathed into his lungs but we gave up when the ambulance got there about 20 minutes later; he was a solid blue color (John was very fair and redheaded). Not a good day.

The point of this experience I am relating is that we need to get our priorities straight in this country. WTF are we willing to die for? What are our principles? I know what mine are, who my boss is, and where I'm going when I leave this valley of tears. That guides me in my decision making.

As a pilot I learned that you HAVE TO think about trouble all the time, plan what you will do when or if it comes and PRACTICE it in your brain. Then relax and go on about your life. Otherwise you will learn by hard experience why a coward dies a thousand deaths. Be true to your principles and you will sleep better at night and be an asset to humanity and God.

My rant is for anyone here that hasn't thought this through like I KNOW Surly, Ashvin, RE, Eddie and probably Ka, among others, have. I'm in the moral imperative faith based Ashvin, Surly camp.

More Background:

I had events occur in my life that kept me alive miraculously when I should have gotten killed. I did not pray to avoid getting smacked by a car that ran a red light without lights on at night while my brother was saying "It's not going to get any greener" to me from the back seat of the car while I sat there like a bump on a log for NO ****ING REASON WHATSOEVER!

I didn't spend 10 to 15 minutes underwater refusing to breathe and come out of it because I'm superman; it just happened and I wrote about it in detail here some time ago. Sure, I was praising the Lord and thanking Him for "rescuing" me while I was drowning trying to fish my brother in law dentist (who drowned) from the surf but it was my foot moving me along the bottom for those 10 to 15 minutes or so that got me to the beach because I could barely move my arms and had to concentrate just to dig one toe into the rocky bottom. God made me work for that one!

While totaling a car, the seat belt caused my rib cage to rotate approximately 10 degrees or so I fully expected to die and had no desire whatsoever to stick around as I lay in a field gasping for air.

I did not pray or ask to be miraculously healed but nevertheless, AFTER the doctor at the ER had decided to do an exploratory on me to see how ****ed up I was inside, everything just POPPED into place X-ray room just before the body cavity/chest X-ray prior to the operation. The doctor cancelled the operation after seeing the x-ray. Apparently nothing was broken. You studied medicine (this comment was originally made to a doctor). How many times have you heard of rib cage rotation along the sternum that just pops back into position? How about the spleen? In violent car crashes it is almost always ruptured.

I lost consciousness gasping for air at the hospital with everything going round and round. When I woke up I was still gasping and being rolled into x-ray when all kinds of bubbling noises came from my chest.

I addressed God in my mind and said, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!? Something or someone said, also in my mind, I"M FIXING YOU. My reaction was of chagrin. I was convinced I was DONE here and now I had to live in this HELL HOLE some more.

Now you can call that a faith based miraculous healing if you want but if you do I will say that you are fooling yourself. The "power" of your mind in Faith isn't going to have you or anybody else walking on water anytime soon. All this stuff and nonsense about each one of us being a little god and able to do miracles just by tuning in to some zen power or mind focus is simply magical thinking. As to JC's quote about moving mountains, mustard seed and Faith. He was talking about rocket fuel for evangelizing (fishing humans), not habitually violating the laws of physics.

My belief in Christ is EVIDENCE based. RE thinks I fancy myself "privileged" to have these experiences. I consider myself incredibly stubborn; so much so that God decided that I am so dense that He had to show me some evidence before I would believe. He doesn't do that to most people because most people aren't that dense, period.

And no, I'm not going to detail all the weird and wonderful stuff I have witnessed to you because some reader here might think I'm inventing it just to prove some metaphysical bull**** I believe in. Sorry, I'm about as hard nosed about cause and effect as any other scientist out there.

I once put a guy in jail because I refused to back down on my court testimony after witnessing a car he lost control of drive over and kill a street vendor. Despite receiving death threats, I said, **** it, it's the right thing to do so I'M GOING TO DO IT.  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)

Everything I witnessed about God doing His thing here and there was rigorously questioned and fact checked moment by moment by me. I was NOT looking for anything but an excuse NOT to believe there is a supreme being that intercedes in the lives of people on this planet in a personal manner.

But the observed events and facts said otherwise. Sure, I have Faith NOW, but I didn't do anything to earn it. It really IS, as the bible says, a gift.
 (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160614020827.gif)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on August 15, 2014, 10:06:06 pm
There is a lot of strange stuff that goes on out there.  :o I will now relate quite a strange close encounter I had with light beings/creatures or whatever.

Here's the story of my experience April 9, 1990:

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-150814220426.jpeg)
I was in a parking lot overlooking a city watching the moon rise at about 9:00 P.M. There were about 20 other people there listening to their radios and drinking beer. I wasn't drinking. I saw this weird cloud about 5 miles away boiling like a tornado cell. It seemed to  be backlit (not by moonlight) but there was no sound of thunder from cloud internal lightning. People started saying "look at that and ooooh and aaaah".

This went on for about 5 minutes and two lights shot out of the cloud at least 1,000 mph (I'm a pilot and atc at this time so I had a very good grasp of distances and speeds). One was red and one was blue. The red one headed north (I was facing east towards the cloud and the moon) and the blue one headed south for a mile or so and did a hair pin turn and caught up to the red one headed north. They grew brighter and whiter and disappeared. 

It all happened in less than a minute after they shot out of the cloud. I was smoking a cigarette and was amazed at this "whatever" display of acrobatics and speed.

I heard a muffled pop like when you pop a paper bag. I looked left and I saw the first light ball. Then POP, POP. Two more appeared out of nowhere right before my eyes (no doubt some kind of interdimensional movement similar to what you mentioned and what occurs constantly in the electron clouds around an atomic nucleus).

I just stared at these majestic looking things that reminded me of a Dandelion seed Ball with clear Lucite rods sticking out. They where white and translucent, not yellow as portrayed. The center was compact. They floated south a few feet from me rotating lightly (the lateral rods were near stationary while the most forward and rear rods appeared to roll clockwise through the air two feet or so from the asphalt (the rate of roll did not coincide to the asphalt below like tire movement does). The asphalt was lit up by these things as they passed by. It took no more than a couple of minutes. Think of a feather floating in a whisper of a breeze.

Then the lead one Popped and disappeared, followed in sequence by the other two. I caught a flash of light entering the cloud miles away and then the cloud stopped boiling and assumed a typical cloud appearance. I was sorry I hadn't tried to touch one.

I didn't know anyone there so I didn't talk to anyone but people appeared pretty dumbfounded. I left a few minutes later. I've never made heads or tails of this experience. If the balls ARE energy creatures, they must have had a good time but made no effort to communicate. If they are vehicles, whatever pilots them is no bigger than a rabbit. Whatever they are, I do not think they are from Earth. It appears that there are some ETs out there that aren't shaped like us and prefer the sea urchin star shape.  :icon_mrgreen:

What do you think I saw? Note. The moon didn't jump position. I lost no time.

  (http://i.imgur.com/XxclIVH.gif)  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-300714025456.bmp)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on September 17, 2014, 09:26:37 pm
True story.   8)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAJDnhpvtJY&feature=player_embedded
The above is NOT the experience related. I post it so you will get the picture of what a Huey Gunship in combat is like.

Spring 1967 12:15 to 12:20 A.m. (I looked at the car clock!):
I'm riding shotgun with my pal in his 1958 metallic blue Mercedes (in excellent condition with leather seats!). We are listening to the radio and smoking menthol tiparillos. It's a warm and pleasant night. We are at a stop light. The light turns green. He pulls out and crosses the intersection into our neighborhood. I was NOT thinking about my brother, Viet Nam or the war. I blurted out, "My brother just got shot. What time is it?". My friend asked me, "Is he dead?". I said, "no", as I looked at the car clock. There wasn't much else to say. I did realize it must have been day time in Viet Nam (it was an 11 hour time difference from where I was). 

So, I wrote it down and waited. I didn't say anything to my parents or anybody else in my family. I figured that tiparillo had some weird **** in or I was unconsciously just concerned for my brother and my brain "made something up". I certainly did believe that telepathy was possible but that was only the second time I had one of those flashes (the other one was from my old man several years prior and I did not link the two). Note: I was an atheist at the time.

Same moment in Viet Nam (I checked and confirmed this with my brother personally BEFORE telling him my experience!) It's mid day there (11:15 A.M.):
A Huey helicopter gun ship with my brother as crew chief riding on the left side machine gun mount area was flying low while another one was flying high above. The tactic was for the low flying chopper (it was their turn in the barrel that day  :P ) to sucker snipers into shooting at them so the high chopper can waste the sniper at the location of the weapon flash. It was a bright and hot day.

They were close to Bien Hoa Air Base where they were based. So far it had been a calm day...
My brother said he heard somebody say "move over" (when you are manning the machine gun on the left side, half your ass is in the breeze  ;D). He shifted his ass to the right and felt something hit him like a baseball bat on the left side of his ass (had he not shifted right, the round would have missed the pelvis and gone straight up into his abdominal cavity to his heart, probably killing him on the spot). The round lodged in his pelvis and **** it. He was thrown to the right yelling "TAKING FIRE!". They flew out of it and the high chopper "took care of business".

Flying back to base,  STILL with only a mildly sore ass, he asked who had radioed to "move over"? The other three crew members said the first they knew something was going on was when my brother yelled. "TAKING FIRE!". I learned all this many months later after my brother returned from Viet Nam.

(http://www.thurstontalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Hartley-Custom-Bracelet.jpg)
For crew chiefs only! Crew chiefs were top rated mechanics so they had "access" to some "expensive" replaced parts. My brother had one of these Huey helicopter rotor chain bracelets.  ;D
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on October 10, 2014, 04:10:25 pm
Unlawful versus ILLEGAL   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-051113192052.png)


What is UNLAWFUL?

That which is contrary to law. “Unlawful” and “illegal” are frequently used as synonymous terms, but, in the proper sense of the word, “unlawful,” as applied to promises, agreements, considerations, and the like, denotes that they are ineffectual in law because they involve acts which, although not illegal, i. e., positively forbidden, are disapproved of by the law, and are therefore not recognized as the ground of legal rights, either because they are immoral or because they are against public policy. It is on this ground that contracts in restraint of marriage or of trade are generally void. Sweet. And see Hagerman v. Buchanan, 45 N. J. Eq. 292, 17 Atl. 946, 14 Am. St Rep. 732; Tatum v. State, 66 Ala. 467; Johnson v. State, 66 Ohio St. 59. 63 N. E. 607. 61 L. R. A. 277, 90 Am. St. Rep. 564; Pinder v. State, 27 Fla. 370, 8 South. 837, 26 Am. St. Rep. 75; MacDaniel v. U. S


http://thelawdictionary.org/unlawful/

Agelbert RANT:Are you required to sign a ticket in order to avoid arrest? No.
Of course, signing the ticket is not an admission of guilt.

But YOU CANNOT be coerced under threat of arrest to sign the ****ing ticket! Don't SIGN ANYTHING you do NOT want to sign. And if the cop decides to arrest you, it is an ILLEGAL arrest and you will have grounds to sue the police department later on. Keep your cool with a criminal cop. They don't give a **** about the law and count on the corrupt, illegal and fascist "latitude" given them by our courts.

And by all means, go after that cop in letters to the newspapers and your town council to get him or her fired. Call the police and go, in a group of two or more and voice your complaint and ask for a copy of the record of conversation. Do it more than once. Become a pain in the ass without becoming violent and giving them an excuse to beat you about the head and shoulders.  ;D

Don't wait for them to come to you and apologize or investigate their own corruption. They won't. They are a gang. They are vindictive as hell. They will try to entrap you and they will follow you around in their patrol cars looking for anything to give you a  hard time with. They are MENS REA from the word go, especially when you are making them act lawfully. They HATE that.

They tried that with my wife. We went to the police station and offered to have them put a tracking device on our car so they would know where she was all the time.  ;D  They were not happy campers.  ;D They, of course, said they were NOT following my wife around. My wife disagreed, in her calm, deliberate "You are lying to me voice with times and dates". The chief said they were not "harassing" her and they were not discriminating against her and that patrols have the right, duty and obligation to follow anybody they wanted to follow at any time.  ;D  Right... I love the legal boilerplate bull**** dance that humans, police and lawyers pull out of their ass whenever they wish to dodge responsibility for prejudicial behavior, don't you?  ;)  ;D

The cop that was following her on the motor route is a woman. That SAME woman called for backup when an alarm went off at 3:40 A.M. one moring at an office I delivered papers to on my motor route EVERY DAY, seven days a week. I got out of the car, walked 5 or seven steps up a wheel chair ramp and dropped the paper by the door. I did that EVERY DAY. I heard no alarm. I never had.

Then the **** hit the fan. There I was, with a cop car facing me that had pulled up silently and shined its lights on me as I got in my car.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-310714182509.png) She was out of the car jabbering on some hand radio for BACK UP(!!!?).   (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2009/347/2/6/WTF_Smiley_face_by_IveWasHere.jpg) So, I turned on the dome light, rolled done the window (it was below freezing outside). and put my hands on top of the steering wheel and said, "Can I help you, officer?". The visibly nervous woman cop approaches the vehicle and asked what I was doing there? I explained. She then got an embarrassed look on her face. I asked why the commotion? She said the police station had received a silent alarm. I explained that I did exactly what I did with the newspaper every morning. I did not touch or bang the storm door or open it to put the paper between it and the inner door (some customers requested that - not this one - and for the "math doer" la-la land logicians, spare the maladjusted movement sensor on the wheelchair ramp bull****  8)) Why would the alarm go off now? No answer. They left. I said good day and they did too.

SOMEBODY was setting me up. If you don't ACCEPT that, you are BRAIN DEAD.   (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/gen152.gif)

At any rate, in regard to the police stalking (when THEY do it, it's not called THAT, of course. LOL!) of my wife, they stopped following my wife after the visit(s) to the police station(s). (visibly - but we continue to be on their **** list for having the audacity to believe we have the same rights as anybody else around here - Oh yeah, I've got lots of PROOF. Don't expect me to take THAT to court! LOL!).

I repeat, they are MENS REA from the word go, especially when you are making them act lawfully. They HATE that. But we have to do that. Otherwise, the entire putrid inertia of police brutality and illegality will increase. Most lawyers will do NOTHING to stop this unless you pay them to. They are. more often than not, hair splitting, procrastinating, erring on the side of caution, enablers and accessories to the problem than a force for good. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183404.bmp)

If you doubt that, just study Germany's "justice" system as the Third Reich took hold and LEARN that the lawyers didn't do JACK **** to stop the abuse as it got more and more brutal. I saw a picture of a Jewish man carrying a placard in Germany BEFORE the NAZIs had started killing Jews that read "I will not go to court for grievances" (paraphrased and in German, of course) hoping to get some attention to the abuses in the court system (to no avail). The COURT system is where fascism gets it "legal" gangrenous foothold. That's not the place to get justice or some type of remedy for damages when fascism is taking hold. Here's a term that makes the crooked enablers of our "justice" system grab their wallets in panic!: EX CURIA.

Ex curia is the ONLY WAY we are going to stop this ****. Don't expect any lawyer or judge to agree with you. They HATE ex curia solutions because they undermine THEIR "authority" and gravy train. Why do you think the term "vigilante" justice has such a pejorative connotation? Vigilante activity, when it IS JUST, should be celebrated as ex curia justice, not condemned. The KKK is vigilante CRIMINALITY, not "justice". 

ex curia [eks kyoo r-ee-uh] Spell Syllables 
out of court; without litigation.   (http://www.clker.com/cliparts/c/8/f/8/11949865511933397169thumbs_up_nathan_eady_01.svg.hi.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/siGMkUI.gif)
  (http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/2thumbs.gif)

Now for your enjoyment and edification, the Police from "Pennslavania"  ;D  provide some pointers on behavior during close encounters with cops. (http://www.imgion.com/images/01/Angry-animated-smiley.jpg) 


Quote
If You Are Stopped by the Police in Your Car
SNIPPET:
Quote
When the officer asks you to sign the ticket or warning notice, it is not an admission of guilt, you are simply acknowledging that you received it. If you refuse to sign, the officer will still issue the ticket but will mark it "Refused."
http://www.twpusc.org/police/what-to-do

Quote
If The Police Come Knocking At Your Door

SNIPPET:

If the police knock at your door and ask to come into your home, you do not have to let them in unless they have a warrant that has been signed by a judge, or under emergency circumstances, the officer is in pursuit of a suspect.

Ask to see the warrant.
If it is an ARREST WARRANT, make sure that you look at the name on the warrant to be sure the police have the right person.

If it is a SEARCH WARRANT, make sure it is for your specific address and check to see what is listed on the warrant to be searched for in your home or location. The warrant gives the officer(s) the legal right to temporarily seize the listed property on the warrant.

The police may also search without a warrant whenever they have arrested a person. They may search his or her person and the immediate area where the arrest was made.

The police may also search after consent is given. If you object to their request to search, be sure to make it clear that you do not agree to any kind of search. They may also search when there is an emergency situation (for example, someone screaming for help inside your home) or when they are chasing you or someone else into your home (hot pursuit).

If the police do not have a warrant, you may, but do not have to let them in, UNLESS they demand to come in. Perhaps you can settle this matter at the door, if they do insist on coming in over your objections then:
Ask to see identification or a police badge.
Let them in only after they demand to come in.

If you object, then make sure you tell them that you DO NOT consent to any search.
Remember the badge numbers and the names of the officers. Write it all down. The officers usually have business cards, feel free to ask the officer(s) for one.

Quote
If You Are Stopped By The Police On The Street

SNIPPET:
"You have the right to remain silent; anything you say can and will be used against you in court; you have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before you answer any questions and to have a lawyer with you during questioning; if you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish."
The officer will ask you if you understand your rights, and are you willing to answer some questions, or make a statement. If you don't want to talk after you have been informed of your rights, then you DO NOT have to.
http://www.twpusc.org/police/what-to-do

Agelbert NOTE: An UNLAWFUL law, no matter WHAT the Police are claiming below:

Quote
Things to Remember

SNIPPET:
Under Pennsylvania law, you may not use force to resist a legal or illegal   :o  >:(  arrest. Remember you have the right to contest the validity of your arrest later on in court.  ::)
http://www.twpusc.org/police/what-to-do
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on October 11, 2014, 05:20:29 pm
Our Court system is corrupt. They will be handmaidens for fascism, not a bulwark against it.

Always remember all those brilliant (no sarcasm here - they were considered the pinnacle of legal thinking and properly just constitutional law guardians) jurists and lawyers from 1930s Germany, THAT WERE STILL THERE in 1968, who peddled empty rhetoric for Hitler to survive, presented (at Nuremberg) an erudite "defense" of their prudent, measured, legal, analytical logic of doing the "best they could" under the duress of Hitler's dictates (they claimed they saved many lives - NOT) only to be told they were full of baseless rhetoric and perjurous mendacity after over a thousand witnesses told the REAL story. Nevertheless, most of them got off SCOTT FREE. They do take care their own, don't they.   ;D

They DON'T take care of we-the-people. They never will. Handmaidens of whoever is in power with empty, but high sounding rhetoric to accompany their claim to being defenders of justice. I wish it weren't so.

Discussing LAW with a lawyer is a waste of time; they are hopelessly locked in confirmation bias and defending their bread and butter with all their sophistic and erudite skills. It's not personal; it's just that they keep foremost in their keen minds the disbarring consequences of defending natural law over statist laws formulated for the coercion of the citizenry on behalf of the health of the state.


I have been to court Pro Se twice. I pounded the law, used state supreme court Stare Decisis (case law) precedent, rules of legal procedure and constitutional law as well as mortgage law and inheritance law (when needed) to back every  assertion on every motion, presented evidence of fraud, and pleaded with a judge to overturn a clearly illegal power of attorney, only to be ignored (because, of course, the judge could not counter my claims  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png)).

This is what they do when you pound the law and they don't want to follow it. They are watching VERY closely for you to make assertions not based on law (especially if you are a pro se messing with their private corporate club - At which point they lambast you with all sorts of legal terms for not knowing what you are talking about, demanding that you get a lawyer, or face contempt of court charges or be prevented from representing yourself henceforth - I studied all those games in advance so they were never able to have that "fun" with me. LOL!).

But they aren't done just because they can't throw you out of court for not knowing the law. Oh no! If, after the judge willfully (and "lawfully"  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png)) ignores your motions, you attempt to pressure the judge asking them to "reconsider" a court order or overturn (leave without effect) their sentence or ruling, they just say NO.

In our corrupt system, a judge does NOT have to justify s hit, regardless of what a lawyer will tell you. In order to get a judge to recuse themselves, GET THIS, THEY have to APPROVE the motion for recusal that you present! 

Talk about stacking the deck! And forget complaining about the judge to the court system unless you have a lot of money and patience. One judge I recently had the misfortune of dealing with was taken to the state supreme court for deliberately ignoring a state supreme court ruling on Dolo incidente (a bank offers financial products to a public entity, and hides the true costs of the product) in order to defend a crooked banking institution.

The state supreme court ruled it was an HONEST MISTAKE OF INTERPRETATION (bull****!) by said judge. Said judge, that had just thumbed her nose at the supreme court, was not penalized in any way, and was allowed to continue as a judge in good standing.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183404.bmp)

Expect a lawyer (after a week on the clock charging per hour studying the court proceedings  ;D)  to say this is another ISOLATED INCIDENT and, overall, the system is just  dandy and JUST, and every case must be looked at separately, not as a "ridiculous, wild eyed, judgement" of the overall system by "imagining" a pattern of corruption where "there is none". RIGHT.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183404.bmp)

Lawyers and judges have a REAL PROBLEM connecting dots. They are LOATHE to see a pattern that reveals the TRUTH about how corrupt and dysfunctional our court system is. They are the fish that swim in that water. They will never see anything wrong with the water, period. That's confirmation bias. Of course, they will argue day and night that they are there to preserve the integrity of that system and are vigilant of flaws and the system is "self correcting" for these "unfortunate isolated incidents" of corruption. That's just rhetoric. 

The system now dances to the tune played by, mostly the large corporate institutions in general and the banks in particular. All these so called LEGAL, LAWFUL LAWS can be traced to profit through some form of violation over the natural laws of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The latest twist, a very embarrassing one for the judge I mentioned above (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/8.gif), that shows CLEARLY the puppet threads from the bank to the judge (in my quixotic legal effort) is hilarious if it wasn't so tragically unjust.

I filed a motion requesting a third party lawsuit. I was asked to reveal the grounds for inclusion (even though I had JUST DONE THAT in the motion) of said third party (my dad's second wife who was now legally an heir due to the death of my father).

I gave the grounds, I cited the law, I gave precedents, etc. I alleged she MUST be part of the bank's list of party sued or the lawsuit the bank presented is invalid. I cautioned the judge against ruling for the bank because this set up a very bad precedent allowing blood heirs to ignore a widow from a second marriage in foreclosure sale proceeds. I even was so bold as to claim the constitutionality of that ruling could be questioned and the foreclosure sale ruled invalid along with (I slipped this in at the last (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png)) the judge appearing as the handmaiden of the bank and thereby undermining the TRUST of the people in our court system (a cause for recusal - I never did waste my time attempting to get that judge's recusal - they are mostly ALL banking puppets).

I was ignored. The "honorable" judge, after (LOL!) stating there was "no controversy" in the lawsuit, hands down the sentence in favor of the bank. I call up the widow and tell her if she thinks she can play this game and run to the foreclosure auction and snap up the property, she's got another thing coming. I told her this was a setup from the word go and admitted I had gone to bat for her to defend my interests, not just hers. I yelled this at her: She had never defended justice or my inheritance. She had sided with my family and they were going to shaft her. Have a nice day.

Well the widow, firmly holding her wallet in panic, raced to the bank with her copy of the last will and testament of my old man. The bank filed a motion to "leave the sentence without effect" and amended the lawsuit to include the widow. I had filed multiple motions asking, FOR MONTHS, that all that be done and MUST ?BE DONE according to the LAW! In exactly two days, the judge rescinded her sentence, accepted the amended lawsuit, AND issued a sentence ruling in favor of the NEW and IMPROVED amended lawsuit.

What an embarrassment for that judge to behave like such a lackey! I have a count of over 16 judges that have perused that case since I began being a pain in the legal ass in February. I'm sure the ****tail parties are no fun for that judge right now.  8)

There were a few, brave, principled jurists in Germany that were NOT Jewish who were willing to stand on principle. There are a few in the USA today.

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-101014220651.png)

They will be silenced by their peers and the state. The only solution to tyranny is an EX CURIA solution.


(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-081014144000.jpeg)
Hebrews 11: 39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.  (http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/465/465823jzy0y15obs.gif)



Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on October 13, 2014, 08:27:27 pm

 "Violent reactionary resistance" puts you squarely in Brandon Smith territory, which is, as John Lennon once famously observed, exactly where the state wants you because then it knows how to deal with you, and batshit crazy as a bonus.

Far better for the citizens to withdraw their consent  by means of public assembly, acts of group noncompliance, boycotts, demonstrations, etc. Far more effective, but much harder to do.  As we've already seen, as the hirelings of TPTB rollout their hospitality for nonviolent protesters.

The problem of course is that TPTB have no issue with responding to Non-Violent protest with Violence.

(http://www.technology-digital.com/web20/192897-us-davis-police-lt-john-pike-dousing-seated-students-with-pepper-spray.jpg)

You also are fully aware of Agents Provacateur, and obviously Pepper Spray is only a tiny part of the arsenal of Violence brought by the State on Peaceful Protesters.  You got your Water Cannon, your Rubber Bullets and your LRAD too!

(http://boringpittsburgh.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/g20-pittsburgh-lrad-first-time-2-600x519.jpg)

Obviously, confronted with this, followed by shipping off numerous people to the largest Prison System the World has ever known, the folks protesting don't always stay calm and peaceful.

In the Warsaw Ghetto, with the exception of a few resistance episodes, the Jews resisted peacefully.  It did not do them much good.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/Selection_Birkenau_ramp.jpg)

Who made it through the Holocaust?  The RESISTANCE FIGHTERS! The BIELSKIS!! (http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007743)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Bielski_partisans.jpg)

Quote
The Bielski partisans were an organization of Jewish partisans who rescued Jews from extermination and fought against the Nazi German occupiers and their collaborators in the vicinity of Nowogródek (Navahrudak) and Lida in German-occupied Poland (now western Belarus). They are named after the Bielskis, a family of Polish Jews who led the organization.

Under their protection, 1,236 Jews survived the war, making it one of many remarkable rescue missions in the Holocaust.[1] The group spent more than two years living in the forests and was initially organised by members of the Bielski family.

Quote
Jewish Partisans

Some Jews who managed to escape from ghettos and camps formed their own fighting units. These fighters, or partisans, were concentrated in densely wooded areas. A large group of partisans in occupied Soviet territory hid in a forest near the Lithuanian capital of Vilna. They were able to derail hundreds of trains and kill over 3,000 German soldiers.

Life as a partisan in the forest was difficult. People had to move from place to place to avoid discovery, raid farmers' food supplies to eat, and try to survive the winter in flimsy shelters built from logs and branches. In some places, partisans received assistance from local villagers, but more often they could not count on help, partly because of widespread antisemitism, partly because of people's fears of being severely punished for helping. The partisans lived in constant danger of local informers revealing their whereabouts to the Germans.

Many Jews participated in the partisan units formed in France and Italy to help regular Allied forces defeat German forces. They forged documents and identity cards, printed anti-Nazi leaflets, and assassinated collaborators.

Twenty-three-year-old Hannah Senesh, a Hungarian Jew who emigrated to Palestine in 1939, was one of the thirty-two Palestinian parachutists the British dropped behind German lines to organize resistance and rescue efforts. Before crossing the border in Hungary on June 7, 1944, to warn Hungarian Jews about the extermination camps, Senesh, a poet, handed a poem to one of her companions. It ended with these lines: "Blessed is the heart with strength to stop its beating for honor's sake. Blessed is the match consumed in kindling flame." Senesh was captured the next day and executed as a traitor to Hungary.
Key Dates

JULY 20, 1941
GHETTO ORDERED IN MINSK, SPARKS RESISTANCE
On July 20, 1941, the Germans order the establishment of a ghetto in Minsk. Within days of the ghetto's establishment, thousands of Jews are killed. Jews in the ghetto form an underground resistance network in August 1941. Members of the underground set up a printing press and newspaper to distribute information to the ghetto population. The underground also contacts partisan units outside the ghetto to find hiding places for Jews in the ghetto. In March 1942, the Germans carry out an action in the Minsk ghetto in which thousands are killed. Shortly thereafter, members of the underground begin leaving the ghetto for the forests where they form partisan units and fight the Germans. The partisans in the forests work to rescue Jews from the ghetto and bring them to the forests, where they establish partisan bases. Approximately 10,000 Jews flee the Minsk ghetto for the forests by 1944. Many lose their lives in the attempt.

JANUARY 1942
JEWISH ARMY IN FRANCE
The Jewish Army (Armee Juive; AJ), is established by Zionist youth groups in Toulouse, France. The AJ operates throughout France, but is particularly active in the southern regions. Members are recruited from both Jewish and non-Jewish youth and resistance groups and are trained in military and sabotage activities. AJ members smuggle money out of Switzerland to France to distribute to Jewish relief agencies. This money helps thousands of Jews in hiding. The AJ assassinates some of those who cooperate with the Germans and smuggles about 500 Jews and non-Jews across the border into neutral Spain. In 1943 and 1944, the AJ establishes close ties with Allied forces--including General Charles de Gaulle's Free French of the Interior (FFI) forces. In 1944, during the liberation of France, the AJ participates in uprisings in Paris, Lyon, and Toulouse against the German occupation.

JANUARY 21, 1942
UNITED PARTISAN ORGANIZATION IN VILNA
After reports of mass killings of Jews at Ponary, outside Vilna, members of Zionist youth movements establish the United Partisan Organization (Fareynegte Partizaner Organizatsye, FPO) in the Vilna ghetto. The organization prepares to resist the Germans in the event that the ghetto is threatened with destruction and establishes contact with other ghettos to acquire weapons and encourage resistance. In early September 1943, the Germans deporting Jews from the ghetto and are confronted with resistance by FPO members. The FPO decides to abandon the ghetto and flee to the nearby forests to fight the Germans from the outside. The last group of resistance fighters escapes the final destruction of the ghetto on September 23, 1943. They leave the ghetto through the sewers and join partisans in the Rudninkai and Naroch forests.

AG, I was reviewing some state and local election info today and when I read the candidate statement below, it made me think about your courtroom endeavors (http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,3541.msg58510.html#msg58510)...it sure would have been nice if you had been in front of a judge that had the "David and Goliath" mentality that this guy claims to have.

[float=left]I'm a political nobody. I am a small town defense lawyer in rural northeast North Carolina. Professionally, I help those accused of crimes, as described in the Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

I have no strong ties to any party, power or influence. I have not taken a dime from any interested party, person or group, and I do not plan to. I will fund my own campaign. Judicial independence becomes suspect when money is exchanged.

I am asking for support in the form of votes so that I can head to Raleigh to fulfill the remaining term of retired Chief Judge John Martin on the NC Court of Appeals. The only promise that I am making is that I will do my best in writing opinions by applying the law as it is written. I believe both David and Goliath walk into a courtroom on equal footing and they should be treated as equals in the eyes of the law.
[/float]

 
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=608417605944217&story_fbid=609096055876372 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=608417605944217&story_fbid=609096055876372)

RE,
Nice historical posts. I'll repost that on my forum. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714194256.bmp)

JoeP,
I hear ya. Go some pages back on this thread and you will see that I stated I would not argue LAW with a LAWYER because, regardless of the fact that some lawyers such as Ashvin are highly ethical and principled Christians, over all, that profession and most of those who make their living from it, have historically been the handmaiden of governmental abuses, not a bulwark against them. There is a built in, and profound, conflict of interest inherent in any member of an organization that licenses its individuals to practice. I am, at this moment, researching the incredible acquiescence of the Court System in the USA to all the blatant and unconstitutional LEGAL and LAWFUL LEGISLATED attacks on personal freedoms hitherto guaranteed by the Bill of Rights (for white land owners only at first - but you get the idea  ;)).

It is NOT hyperbole to claim that, especially post 911, FASCSIM has made giant strides in the USA and the Court System is AIDING in the implementation of routine violation of our Constitution. That is what I am researching and I will post on it when I get some more info. My experience with law and the study of it is not limited to my pro se "fun". As a young pilot, I formed a union. The boss had me fired under false pretenses. I went to the department of labor and filed a complaint. Arbitration took place. I proved I was fired without cause. All well and good. In that state, the LAW says you CAN fire an employee without cause but you must pay him a month's severance pay. The boss was ordered by the government to pay me a month's pay. He filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy (he was NOT actually bankrupt - he kept running that air taxi for YEARS on Chapter 11    (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp)).

Due to "technicalities" of the LAW, he therefore did not have to pay me that month's pay. Lots of details about how to "connect" with the Court assigned "trustee" that then decides how to, and in what order to, pay the creditors. Corruption from the word go! Nuttin' you can do about it. Tough ****, pal. UNLESS, as RE stated, you have the money to fight a long court battle. As GO said, 'all's well that "ends" well' is fine and dandy for some people but it leaves a lot of road kill.

The law profession will claim that our Court System, however flawed is the ONLY alternative to JUST change besides violence. RE disagrees and so do I. This is a scare tactic/argument from adverse consequences/fallacious debating technique evidencing a lack of objectivity and an obvious conflict of interest. Rather than argue the merits of non-violent ex curia solutions pro and con, to perform a knee jerk sniff at ex curia solutions (NON VIOLENT ex curia ONLY IS ALL I ADVOCATE!) is par for the course for lawyers. Why?
 
I posted a picture of a fat kitty and full bowl of food. That cat has a "conflict of interest" over access to that food bowl. He is honest about it. You will get swatted (if you are NOT he who fills that bowl  ;)) if you mess with that bowl. Mr. Kitty has his NAME on the bowl where his "income" is found.  Whether he is full or not, Mr. Kitty simply cannot be objective about who gets to eat at that food bowl, period.

Are we communicating?

I will NOT argue Medicine with a Veterinarian when I am convinced they are wrong as I later confirmed when a Vet wanted to put Nino on a low protein diet. It would have been a waste of time. I saved a bundle of money and extended the life of an obligate carnivore. I never went back to that Vet, of course.

I will NOT argue Law with a Lawyer, either. See above.

Professionals have a tendency to argue from authority. They have the credentials so they can. But when they are wrong, their pride gets in the way and they will argue until the cows come home. And for those who make their living through words and documents filled with arguments and counter arguments, you are just providing entertainment for them. They ENJOY debating. They know ALL the tricks. From the moment you open your mouth, it's game, set, match for them. I prefer to be entertainment for a kitty or my wife.   ;D

Are we communicating?

Not yet? Here, read this hypothetical exchange between an Aborigine in Australia and a law firm:


(http://www.dw.de/image/0,,2362526_4,00.jpg)
Aborigine Bob Weatherall protested in London against the Museum of Natural History's decision to test indigenous bones.
Australia calls for German museums to give back human bones (http://www.dw.de/australia-calls-for-german-museums-to-give-back-human-bones/a-2426639)

(http://www.dw.de/image/0,,2426771_4,00.jpg)
Whoopie! Great Grandma is doing her part for SCIENCE! (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TzWpwHzCvCI/T_sBEnhCCpI/AAAAAAAAME8/IsLpuU8HYxc/s1600/nooo-way-smiley.gif)

Agelbert NOTE: If you are an Aborigine, FORGET damages awards of portions of the estates from, or RETROACTIVE MURDER CHARGES AND posthumous trials for, all these serial murderers.  ???

Lawyers will calmly state that the murder wasn't murder when it was committed because it was, uhm, LEGAL and LAWFUL then.  ;D Water under bridge, old boy. But our law firm will be happy to sue a British, German or American Museum (Hello, Smithsonian! ;D) to get the bones of your great grand pappy for a reasonable fee. No, we can't get them to stop displaying the bones for science until we win the lawsuit. No, sorry, we can't get all the pictures taken of your deceased relatives in the museum files collected and given to you. Science must, after all, be considered. Just consider that your relatives "donated" their bodies to science like people do today when they sign that part of their driver's license. Remember, our legal system is JUST! Trust us. We are lawyers. We know the LAW and we are the ONLY defense you have and bulwark you can rely on to protect you from injustice, abusive government and anarchy!  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)

Would you like to engage our firm to get justice for you and your family from this heinous act done to your relatives? I would be incensed if this outrage had been perpetrated on my ancestors! Justice must be done!  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-300614160245.gif)

Excuse me? 
No, we are unable to take the case on contingency or pro bono. Sorry.  Now, if you will excuse me, I have an appointment with a paying client. Best of luck to you, and God Bless you. (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9HT4xZyDmh4/TOHhxzA0wLI/AAAAAAAAEUk/oeHDS2cfxWQ/s200/Smiley_Angel_Wings_Halo.jpg)

(http://www.kenjacobs.com/lawyer3ag.jpg)
Title: The Day the Middle Class Died: August 5, 1981 - I remember it well
Post by: AGelbert on October 14, 2014, 01:39:56 am
Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 04:08 PM PDT.

30 Years Ago Today: The Day the Middle Class Died


by
Michael Moore

From time to time, someone under 30 will ask me, "When did this all begin, America's downward slide?" They say they've heard of a time when working people could raise a family and send the kids to college on just one parent's income (and that college in states like California and New York was almost free). That anyone who wanted a decent paying job could get one. That people only worked five days a week, eight hours a day, got the whole weekend off and had a paid vacation every summer. That many jobs were union jobs, from baggers at the grocery store to the guy painting your house, and this meant that no matter how "lowly" your job was you had guarantees of a pension, occasional raises, health insurance and someone to stick up for you if you were unfairly treated.

 Young people have heard of this mythical time -- but it was no myth, it was real. And when they ask, "When did this all end?", I say, "It ended on this day: August 5th, 1981."

 Beginning on this date, 30 years ago, Big Business and the Right Wing decided to "go for it" -- to see if they could actually destroy the middle class so that they could become richer themselves.

 And they've succeeded.

On August 5, 1981, President Ronald Reagan fired every member of the air traffic controllers union (PATCO) who'd defied his order to return to work and declared their union illegal. They had been on strike for just two days.


 It was a bold and brash move. No one had ever tried it. What made it even bolder was that PATCO was one of only three unions that had endorsed Reagan for president! It sent a shock wave through workers across the country. If he would do this to the people who were with him, what would he do to us?

Full article at link:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/05/1003695/-30-Years-Ago-Today-The-Day-the-Middle-Class-Died

Agelbert NOTE: The Strike was on August 3, 1981. Reagan gave them two days to get their asses back to work. Three air traffic controller guys at Syracuse did. The rest did not. At Syracuse TRACON (Tower/Radar Approach Control) we had a Tower chief and an assistant chief, a secretary, four staff (two data systems specialists - I was one of them) and two training instructors. We had 4 or five supervisors and about 20 air traffic controllers. Ninety percent left.

Those of us who stayed had to "get current" if we weren't working airplanes at that time. I did , along with the rest of the staff. We worked ten hour days, six days a week for a month and then ten hour days, 5 days a week for about two years. One guy who left couldn't take the pressure of leaving. He died of a heart attack at a mere 35 years of age leaving a wife and three children. He was a good man. He just couldn't say no to the coercion of the union.

The union had the brass to come to the tower to collect "blood money" donations from those of us who hadn't struck as if it was OUR fault and not theirs. So it goes. I was in the union, but I told Jeff Hall, the union rep, that I had signed a document when I hired on agreeing not to strike so that was that. He was not pleased.

Of course, I am certain he had absolutely nuttin' and nada to do with it but somehow some sand managed to get in my gasoline tank. Just a coincidence of course. I took my F150 super cab ford pickup to Courtesy Ford. They overhauled the engine for around $1,200.00 but 'forgot' to save an oil sample despite my specific request to do so (their mechanics were unionized and supported PATCO, but I'm certain there was no connection to that 'lapse of memory' that enabled my home owners insurance rep to give me the, sorry, no evidence of vandalism here. Have a nice day.

I said, but look, I got these piston sleeves from the mechanic that did the overhaul. LOOK at the scoring! I waved them at him. Sorry, only the oil sample is "acceptable" evidence.  ;D I wanted to throw them at him but I resisted the temptation to engage in a stupid bit of force that would not do my soul or my body (jail for sure!) any good. Of course I cancelled my homeowners on the spot. Don't get me started on the LAWS that allow Insurance companies to engage in highway robbery on a daily basis.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)

Where was I? Oh yes, all that overtime was useful in paying Courtesy (PRO-UNION) Ford for the overhaul. After about 5 months, I fainted on position (clearance delivery) shortly after a conversation with a fine fellow air traffic controller member of the John Birch Society discussing, quite politely, of course, his views on minorities multiplying like rats and ruining the country.

You get a bit tired of that **** after a while. I had two kids (at least I THOUGHT they were mine) and promptly got a vasectomy. I had told this guy that. I was a dumb **** Republican then. But it DID NOT MATTER to this guy. I was one of THEM.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)

I guess the work and stress (It gets old to drive by a bunch of fine fellows looking at you with daggers in their eyes  :P) got to me that day. These were people, some of which went to the same church as I did. So much for their Catholic faith.  :(

Anyway, I was taken to a doctor who prescribed some inderol (relaxes smooth muscle on blood vessel walls so your blood pressure cannot get too high BUT it HAS potential negative effects for your heart in the future - don't try to prove THAT in a court room. LOL!) and promised to DO ME THE BIG FAVOR of not putting it on my record so I would still be able to work airplanes. He was actually SCREWING me (and doing the Tower Chief a big favor by keeping a much needed warm body working airplanes come hell or high water  ;D) because a job related medical condition is a HUGE difference in pay between a non-job related (As in, no evidence of a medical condition, my good minority man, sorry. - That was ten years later when I was retired at 26% non-job related disability ;) instead of 75% because THAT IS THE LAW. My disability was job "aggravated" but not job "related". Ah, the pliability of the English language when TPTB want to DANCE away from acting responsibly.

Of course, there is NO PATTERN here. Just because it happened to little old me, doses not mean this is SYSTEMIC in our bureaucracy. Oh, no, not at all.  ;D

What I'm saying is that the deliberate demands of our rules, regulations and LAWS are set up so you need to have a cast iron paper trail or a lot of money when ever you want to get any sort of workmen's comp. All the tools to help the average Joe on the job have been steadily ERODED by legalese, fine print and boilerplate over the years.

It's all about promising you the moon and then not delivering it with some slight of hand which is all quite legal and clever. This has gotten worse and worse as the decades go by. As RE has said, our system is for the well to do, period. The rest of us are commodities without rights.

I survived, just barely. And I was one of the less than 10% of the 16,000 to 18,000 that STAYED and kept the air traffic control system functioning for the 3 to 4 years it took to train and season new air traffic controllers. No good deed goes unpunished and all that.    (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191456.bmp)  I pity the poor people working airplanes now. It's probably even more dog eat dog than it was then.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-300714025456.bmp)

Have a nice day.

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on October 14, 2014, 06:35:25 pm
Quote
Of course, the above is not to imply that I wish to limit your voice in any way, shape or spindulated manner.  Your contributions to this forum are much appreciated. I simply wish to let you know that, well, you get the idea.   ;D  Carry on.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png)

My name is Fazio. Yes, that's Sicilian. :exp-grin: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh:

Quote
From the moment you open your mouth, it's game, set, match for them. I prefer to be entertainment for a kitty or my wife.   ;D
Excuse me?
No, we are unable to take the case on contingency or pro bono. Sorry.  Now, if you will excuse me, I have an appointment with a paying client. Best of luck to you, and God Bless you.   :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh:

                                        (http://www.kenjacobs.com/lawyer3ag.jpg)

       

       Agelbert you hot ticket you, I am crying tears and roaring with laughter.                               

How dare you hide these talents as a master comedian from the Diner forum for so long?

Please Agelbert, drop the duckweed and renewables for a week or so and continue upon this side splitting path, I beg you.

Masterful works AG, sheer MASTERPIECES.

Lighten up Ashvin, we all know your one of the good guys; let's face it, AG is one funny bastard, and on quite a roll with this one.    :exp-cheesy: :exp-grin: :laugh: :laugh:

When an Aborigine meets a Lawyer.  :laugh: :laugh: ;D ;D    [smg id=2684 type=full align=center caption=""]

                                                                               


GO,
Glad to be of service.   (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif)

I can not only do comedy, I can also do a bit of low grade poetry: 
In days of old, when I was bold
And my prostate was not inflated
I taught them flight, got them over their fright
and damaged airplanes were prevented
  :icon_mrgreen:

Now for some serious Law stuff here!  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif) Ahem! My vast and thorough perusal of jurisprudence (and juris-imprudence too!  ;D) has uncovered these gems from a former Supreme Court Justice with a love of Sherlock Holmes novels and an encyclopedic knowledge of the law, why there is law, what it is supposed to do, what it isn't supposed to do and, more importantly, what it REALLY IS ALL ABOUT.   8)

Quote
“Every society rests on the death of men,” he liked to say. If a nation needs soldiers, it seizes young men and marches them off to war at the point of a bayonet. If an epidemic breaks out, it forces the public to get vaccinated.

He said THIS, which sounds quite good as a defense of the Court system.  ;)

Quote
The language of judicial decision is mainly the language of logic. And the logical method and form flatter that longing for certainty and for repose which is in every human mind. But certainty generally is illusion, and repose is not the destiny of man.

As a  (http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/exagerent/police/enprison.gif) lawyer, I can CLEARLY see he used that word "language" twice. Notice he DID NOT say that ALL judicial decisions are BASED on LOGIC, although one COULD interpret that quote in said legalese fashion.

But other famous quotes from him show that he knew the score and wanted us to know it as well.  8)

Quote
Law is not being based on logic, but on experience.

Most of the things we do, we do for no better reason than that our fathers have done them or our neighbors do them, and the same is true of a larger part than what we suspect of what we think.

A man is usually more careful of his money than of his principles.

Young man, the secret of my success is that an early age I discovered that I was not God.

Certitude is not the test of certainty. We have been cocksure of many things that were not so.

Any two philosophers can tell each other all they know in two hours.

Don't be 'consistent,' but be simply true.

Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at the touch, nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening.

Every event that a man would master must be mounted on the run, and no man ever caught the reins of a thought except as it galloped past him.

Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its original dimensions.

Beware how you take away hope from any human being.

The only prize much cared for by the powerful is power.

He knew government is a compromise where the citizenry gets certain benefits but the lion's share of those "benefits" will always be controlled by an elite establishment. I think he just didn't want the elite establishment to become a dictatorship. But, considering the goons that populated the high court then, he was a breath of fresh air; a very BRIEF breath of fresh air in our descent into empire and fascism.  :(

Please excuse this blatant and coarse attempt by yours truly to use the old  appeal to authority fallacious debating trick to sound erudite, polished, knowledgeable of law (and so on,  etc.  ;D). I protest any accusation of low class buffoonery! (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif) I never met Oliver Wendell Holmes and never argued a case before him! So there! If he happens to be on the same page as I am on issues of LAW and juris-imprudence, good for him! ( and me  ;D - Any port in the storm and all that. ) ;D
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on October 15, 2014, 10:56:37 pm
I learned a neat trick while I was having pro se fun with civil court judges. When you file a motion, NEVER ask for more than one thing. There "keen" legal minds have difficulty concentrating on more than one item at a time.  ;D

 Not really!  :(  They get it just fine.  ;) They just use multiple points of law on ONE motion to IGNORE the ones they don't wish to "discuss", shall we say. It's an old trick. It worked for a while and then bank lawyer decided to play fast and loose with the one of two Court orders I got the judge to generate (to get the bank to take a firm legal - i.e. illegal  ;)- position of debt solidarity involving multiple signatures on a note so I could stop their claim to conditio iuris basis in law for the lawsuit).

After the ten days to answer went by and the bank lawyer was still sitting on her hands fishing for a summary judgement, I  tried to get the judge to slap a contempt charge on the bank lawyer by being VERY specific about times and dates with the old ONE motion per charge trick. Knowing she couldn't dance around it, the bank lawyer whipped off a motion claiming she HAD answered the Court order in a timely fashion. The judge accepted it.  :emthdown:

But get this, the Court Order she had answered was ANOTHER Court order issued six days before that and the judge TOTALLY played dumb, stupid and ignorant. She is nothing of the kind. She is just a dancing POS in a corrupt court system that will ignore whatever they want to ignore, no matter how well you present your case. The amended bank lawsuit rubber stamped by the judge was the sloppiest piece of **** I have ever seen with duplicated text and several nunc pro tunc (typographical mistakes that can, and do, get ignored UNLESS you are pro se, of course  ;)).

But, all in all, it was quite educational, enlightening, revealing (and so on. etc. ;D) of the amazing amount of pretzel logic, rampant, socially  corrosive bank ass kissing that goes on in our dysfunctional court system. It has enabled me to, shall we say, have a better grasp of our suicidal trajectory. Unfortunately (depending upon your point of view  ;)), it is having a deleterious effect on my ignorance of the LAW.  ;D

Uhm,, I think I have a graphic that explains the Court System at present. It is, after all, the result of a long, long, long tradition of coercive power granted for our good, peace, civilization, equitable (see definition of "legal" LOL!) society (and so on)  of course.  Gott mit uns!  ;D

 (http://anticorruptionsociety.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/judge_dees.jpg)

GO, this one is for you!   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)

SEE BELOW: TRUTH that provides EVIDENCE supporting your charge that the Courts ARE NOT stopping the LAWLESSNESS of COP BEHAVIOR:   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png) ).

 Despite court rulings, people are still getting arrested for recording on-duty cops
By Radley Balko May 13, 2014    

The Associated Press reports that police in Chicopee, Mass., have arrested and charged a woman for allegedly recording her arrest with her cellphone surreptitiously.  :emthdown: :(

When you see one of these stories, please remember that it is perfectly legal to record on-duty police in every state in the country.  ;D That includes states that require all parties to a conversation to consent in order for that conversation to be recorded. Those laws all also contain a provision that the non-consenting party has a reasonable expectation of privacy. So far, every court to rule on this issue has found that on-duty cops in public spaces have no expectation of privacy and that recording them is protected by the First Amendment.   (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)(The U.S. Supreme Court (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp) has yet to weigh in on the matter.  ;)) In nearly all cases, the charges are eventually dismissed. (The exception may be if you’re arrested under some broad, catch-all law such as “interfering with a police officer” or disorderly conduct.  ;) But even those charges don’t usually stick.)

But Massachusetts is the one state where the right is still just a little bit ambiguous.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp) At one time, some of the state’s courts did allow for citizens to be arrested for recording cops under the state’s wiretapping law (which, again, required all parties to consent before a conversation could be recorded). Illinois also once had an even more onerous law, but it was struck down by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit in 2012 on First Amendment grounds.

In 2011, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit issued a similar decision. The court allowed Simon Glik’s lawsuit against the police officers who arrested him for recording them to go forward, again finding a First Amendment right to record on-duty law enforcement. But in that case, Glik was recording the officers openly. The court’s ruling applied only to that case, leaving open the possibility that someone could still be arrested for making a surreptitious recording of an on-duty cop. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp)  And that’s what happened in this latest case.  ;D

If this case gets to the First Circuit, I suspect this charge will also be thrown out. It’s notable that the Glik decision didn’t even deal with whether there is a legal right to record police in Massachusetts. It dealt with whether cops who illegally arrest someone for recording them should be protected by qualified immunity. In order to get into court against a police officer, you have to demonstrate not only that the officer violated your constitutional rights, but also that the rights violated were well established at the time. (Perversely, this provides a financial incentive for police organizations to keep cops in the dark about the latest court decisions with respect to constitutional rights.)

So while the First Circuit ruling in Glik didn’t apply to surreptitious recording of police officers, it did find that not only is the right to record on-duty police permitted, it’s a well-established right that police should be aware of by now, and that if they violate that right, they can be sued for doing so. It seems unlikely that the same court will then turn around and uphold a separate arrest simply because the woman didn’t tell the police she was recording them.

If I lived in Chicopee, however, I’d wonder why this woman was charged for allegedly recording her arrest in the first place.  :icon_scratch:   Prosecutors have lots of discretion about when to charge someone and about what charges to bring. They are under no obligation to charge every person who breaks every law — it would be impossible for them to do so. And there’s certainly no obligation to latch on to the narrowness of a court decision that otherwise indicated a First Amendment right to record police as an opportunity to charge someone for doing just that, simply because she might fall slightly outside the scope of that particular ruling. Just because the courts haven’t yet ruled that police and prosecutors can’t do something doesn’t mean it’s something they should do.  (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_0293.gif)


So if I lived in Chicopee, I’d want to know why Hampden County District Attorney Mark G. Mastroianni charged this woman. Does he believe it should be illegal to record the police? And if so, why?


Radley Balko blogs about criminal justice, the drug war and civil liberties for The Washington Post. He is the author of the book "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/05/13/despite-court-rulings-people-are-still-getting-arrested-for-recording-on-duty-cops/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/05/13/despite-court-rulings-people-are-still-getting-arrested-for-recording-on-duty-cops/)

Agelbert Note:
So now the cops invent OTHER charges to get an EXCUSE to confiscate your video.  :(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp)  Do you see how this works? I do.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)  The cops will continue to HARASS people because, regardless of the Court decisions, if a JUDGE does not FORCE the DAs to read the riot act to all the COPS, they will continue to do this **** BECAUSE THEY CAN.  :emthdown: Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113183729.png) The Court System (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/www_MyEmoticons_com__burp.gif) is USELESS as **** on a boar hog!

Don't believe anybody that claims there is no alternative UNLESS they agree to discuss the MERITS of present fascist LAWLESS (but legal  ;)) LAWS and proposed replacements to our Court System in a clam and respectful, rather than a disdainful and dismissive manner. To claim no alternative has merit when they refuse to discuss the merits of the present system as opposed to a replacement is circular logic of the most entertaining table pounding sort. But it don't make a lick of sense.  :icon_sunny:

police state definition. A nation whose rulers maintain order and obedience by the threat of police  ;D or military force; one with a brutal, arbitrary government. The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on December 14, 2014, 02:21:09 pm
(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141214141514.png)
Wisdom in jest  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-291014182422.png)  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-051113192052.png)
Title: Santa came a day late to my home!
Post by: AGelbert on December 26, 2014, 10:52:04 pm
I am filing a formal protest!   (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)

I realize Santa DID bring me an excellent gift  :emthup: :emthup: :emthup: :icon_sunny: but really, this is most irregular. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191404.bmp)

I think I'm going to have to have a talk with Fazio, He has used his knowledge of my love of felines to play a practical joke on me with Santa's cooperation. And the NAMES (Mouser, Pouncer, Bounder, Scratchem, FastPaw, LitterKing and NightEyes)   Santa gave to these "reindeer" are humiliating and anti-union.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113183729.png)
Santa gave me a rather threadbare excuse for this "experiment". I am not amused!  (http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-005.gif)


(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-261214221334.png)

   (http://photos-ak.sparkpeople.com/5/8/b588170391.jpg)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on January 02, 2015, 01:41:50 pm
(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-020115133753.png)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on January 29, 2015, 09:26:16 pm
So yeah, Ashvin, prison conversion for humanity beats the hell out of dying wallowing in pleasure while pursuing a dynasty of material wealth for your family, as is the case among 99% of the well-to-do now.  Three cheers for scaring the SELFISHNESS out of humanity (even if it's temporary   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp) ).

I have no problem prison conversions. It seems to me that faith is strongest when it's tested. Tim Keller has a saying - 'faith is tested by how we react to two opposite things, prosperity and adversity'. Or as Augustine said much earlier, "Lord, whether prosperity smile or adversity frown, let your praise be ever in my mouth". The strongest conversions then would be people who turn to God when they are doing really well or when they are doing really poorly.

The problem is when we move from the individual scale to large groups of people who are convinced that world-ending changes are imminent. The parallel would be when large amounts of people are convinced that their surroundings will steadily become better over time. I think both evoke a sort of societal immobilization, crippling people from embracing any genuine transformation or self-sacrifice. Of course there are exceptions, but generally it seems the NTE crowd and Cornucopians are playing two sides of the same materialist coin.

P.S. To address your earlier question, I think the world would be a better place if more people did what I do. More accurately, I think it would be better if more people DIDN'T do what I don't do. Or even more accurately, if they thought the way I (and many others here) do. But it would still be far from perfect.

Ashvin,
Well said. A plethora of wise sayings and proverbs over the ages supports the view that fair weather folks mostly don't hold to their principles when the weather turns sour, so to speak. Actions are the only real measure of a person's character.

But I was mostly referring to the types who totally eschew morality as a guiding principle. Good times always reinforces their world view and bad times is the only thing that will possibly undermine it. During a bad period, they hunt for a chump to take the rap, so to speak, so they don't have to face the music.

If it is established that EVERYBODY has to face that "music", then the morality challenged folks will have no legacy, no offspring to leave a dynasty to, be faced with the reality of, not just dying, but no memory of their existence and sense of privileged existence that they pride themselves in having "earned".

These types have no faith to test. When they have ZERO evidence of GAIN from their "physical cause and effect is IT" world view, the possibility of them thinking outside their materialistic "box" exists. That possibility does not exist any other way.

Those wealthy people that have seen through the emptiness of the materialistic world view,  like Augustine, are such an extreme minority (99.999th percentile or less) that they simply cannot be considered representative of normal human psychology. J.C. wasn't kidding when he mentioned that eye of a needle and a camel.

My deceased brother-in-law was one of those. He was QUITE wealthy. We were discussing spirituality and what God expects us to do in this life back in 1992. He was a clever fellow. He had my number so he was always sure to speak about how we must obey God to do the "right thing" all the time.  ;) I told him that obeying God was not easy and serving God means being willing to give EVERYTHING up, including the respect of one's family, if need be. He said "Nobody is going to take what I have from me." 

You see, being such a clever fellow, he thought I was conning him the way he conned everybody he talked to. He figured I was going to hit him up for some cash, I suppose. So, he sent the SIGNAL that he didn't swallow any wooden nickels.  ;) So it goes with these successful business types.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)

He died of cancer at around 53 years of age (2013). When the stage IV diagnosis was final, he said, "After all my sacrifices, why me?".

This fine fellow refused to make a will and left a massive bag of worms that his children are fighting over. My wife tried to talk to him about it and he said he could not because it caused him "too much stress". Please bear in mind that this guy was POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING on steroids! He was a bicycle racing fanatic and he sold and raced jet skis and motorcycles (at an earlier age). He had his kids so indoctrinated on mind over matter that his daughter claims to this day that her father died because he "gave up."!

The guy was a health food nut all his life and had never gone to or needed a doctor until the colon cancer. He had symptoms for YEARS and he flat refused to acknowledge them while he kept eating seaweed capsules and all kinds of other stuff the health food nuts eat. He would weigh himself every day. He would excoriate people for failing (not making enough money  ;D) by claiming (see Oprah  :icon_mrgreen:) they "attracted" failure with their "attitude". Touchy feely was not his thing.  8)

My, what an AMAZINGLY CONVENIENT way to give the finger to friends in need through happy talk psychobabble.    (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp)

But don't think he was the violent type. He wasn't. He was an excellent debater and rarely raised his voice. I have seldom. if ever, met a person more sure of himself. He had a buck passing answer for everything that might cost him some money while not missing a verbal beat in letting everyone know what a great guy he was and so on. Such a clever fellow...

He really believed in mind over matter. More specifically, HIS MIND over everybody's matter.  :evil4: When he finally realized it was not working, he did not want to talk about it. Claiming he was ready to "Go to God", he was hiding the location and amount of his considerable pecuniary assets for the exclusive benefit of two of his three children. I know this because his daughter slipped up in a conversation with her aunt (my wife) recently by stating that she was not aware during high school that she was a millionaire.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)

My cancer doomed brother-in-law refused to even make an affidavit attesting that the motorcycle shop building was jointly owned by his brother. Consequently, his brother got shafted, two of his children are living high on the hog (his daughter moved to Beverly Hills and paid a YEAR's rent in advance for an apartment there.) and his oldest son, the one he did not get along with, received ZIP.

This is EVIDENCE that this brother-in-law, faced with death, could still not shake his GREED. He did the old 'pass the privilege to those who he decided deserved it' THING the rich, greedball, acquisitive types commonly do because of their arrogance.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)

Well, SOMEBODY DID take everything he had away from him. Call it cancer or call it God. Either way, he deluded himself into believing he had an OUT. That OUT was favoring those he wanted to prosper materially.

This is why I insist that the only way these fine folks with gobs of money GET IT that their money does not mean ZIP, is when they are TOTALLY out of options. The eye of that needle is very, very narrow and rich camels are very ,very fat. Without divine intervention, only a looming catastrophe can get these morality challenged rich folks to see the big picture.   

Ashvin, this famous Theologian and philosopher defines Hell. It is a very brief definition. He can talk for hours (lots of U-tube lectures) on the Myth of Secular Progress so I am certain that he has more to say about Hell. But it is appropriate to present it here because, according to his definition, materialist are already there, so to speak. In fact, anyone who claims total freedom from ethical behavior IS THERE, according to him. A looming catastrophe might get them to leave the earthly door to Hell, so to speak.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)  What say ye?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44NzktIorVc&x-yt-ts=1422503916&x-yt-cl=85027636&feature=player_embedded

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-260115193430.png)


Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on January 30, 2015, 06:45:42 pm
UFOs & Govt. the Smoking Gun Evidence  :o

Published on Nov 24, 2013

A look at what the governments of the United States, England, and Belgium could know about the existence of UFOs, and studies what some say is smoking gun evidence of a web of secrecy.

UFO conspiracy theory argues that evidence of unidentified flying objects and extraterrestrial visitors is being suppressed by various governments around the world.

According to David Morrison, fellow at the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, such theories are backed by little or no evidence.

However, many well-credentialed people claim that there is an overarching cover-up of the subject by the U.S. Government. Former Senator Mike Gravel, claims that the White House is suppressing, ignoring and/or marginalizing evidence. Many generals, pilots, and government officials who have gone on record to state the same thing.

Conspiracy believers commonly argue that Earth governments, especially the Government of the United States, are in communication and/or cooperation with extraterrestrials despite public claims to the contrary, and further that some of these theories claim that the governments are explicitly allowing alien abduction. British researchers have found some evidence of suppression of UFO incidents by governments during the Cold War but have found no evidence of it having a conspiratorial nature. The motive is attributed to the governments' desire to avoid admitting that they could not explain the UFO phenomenon and its associated hysteria.

Some civilians suggest that they have been abducted, some among them saying that they were also subjected to extensive physical examinations and others adding that tissue samples including sperm and ova were taken from them. The contention that there is a widespread cover-up of UFO information is not limited to the general public or the UFO research community. For example, a 1971 survey of Industrial Research/Development magazine found that 76% of those participating in the survey felt the government was not revealing all it knew about UFOs, 54% thought UFOs definitely or probably existed, and 32% thought UFOs came from outer space.

Notable persons to have publicly stated that UFO evidence is being suppressed include Senator Barry Goldwater, Admiral Lord Hill-Norton (former NATO head and chief of the British Defence Staff), Brigadier General Arthur Exon (former commanding officer of Wright-Patterson AFB), Vice Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter (first CIA director), astronauts Gordon Cooper and Edgar Mitchell, former Canadian Defence Minister Paul Hellyer, and the 1999 French COMETA report by various French generals and aerospace experts..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNoiiAAIzas&x-yt-ts=1422579428&feature=player_embedded

BY THE WAY, the "Belgian Wave" discussed in the above video was precisely when I saw some UFOs (in Puerto Rico!) that I have reported on here (April 9, 1990).  They must have done the grand tour of the planet of the naked killer apes and wanted to take in some Caribbean fun while they were at it. :o  :icon_mrgreen:

The following is a true story

I was in a parking lot overlooking a city watching the moon rise at about 9:00 P.M. There were about 20 other people there listening to their radios and drinking beer. I wasn't drinking. I saw this weird cloud about 5 miles away boiling like a tornado cell. It seemed to be backlit (not by moonlight) but there was no sound of thunder from cloud internal lightning. People started saying "look at that and ooooh and aaaah".
(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=579)

This went on for about 5 minutes and two lights shot out of the cloud at least 1,000 mph (I'm a pilot and atc at this time so I had a very good grasp of distances and speeds). One was red and one was blue. The red one headed north (I was facing east towards the cloud and the moon) and the blue one headed south for a mile or so and did a hair pin turn and caught up to the red one headed north. They grew brighter and whiter and disappeared.

It all happened in less than a minute after they shot out of the cloud. I was smoking a cigarette and was amazed at this "whatever" display of acrobatics and speed.

I heard a muffled pop like when you pop a paper bag. I looked left and I saw the first light ball. Then POP, POP. Two more appeared out of nowhere right before my eyes (no doubt some kind of interdimensional movement similar to what you mentioned and what occurs constantly in the electron clouds around an atomic nucleus).

I just stared at these majestic looking things that reminded me of a Dandelion seed Ball with clear Lucite rods sticking out. They where white and translucent, not yellow as portrayed. The center was compact. They floated south a few feet from me rotating lightly (the lateral rods were near stationary while the most forward and rear rods appeared to roll clockwise through the air two feet or so from the asphalt (the rate of roll did not coincide to the asphalt below like tire movement does). The asphalt was lit up by these things as they passed by. It took no more than a couple of minutes. Think of a feather floating in a whisper of a breeze.

Then the lead one Popped and disappeared, followed in sequence by the other two. I caught a flash of light entering the cloud miles away and then the cloud stopped boiling and assumed a typical cloud appearance. I was sorry I hadn't tried to touch one.

I didn't know anyone there so I didn't talk to anyone but people appeared pretty dumbfounded. I left a few minutes later. I've never made heads or tails of this experience. If the balls ARE energy creatures, they must have had a good time but made no effort to communicate. If they are vehicles, whatever pilots them is no bigger than a rabbit. Whatever they are, I do not think they are from Earth. It appears that there are some ETs out there that aren't shaped like us and prefer the sea urchin star shape.

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on February 03, 2015, 11:50:51 pm
NOW we are COOKIN' WITH GAS!  (http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg) (http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg)  (http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg)

Please excuse the reference to fossil fuels.  :P It's an old expression about valuing a discussion that has proceeded in a logical and truthful manner.  8)

WHD,
Than you. You are absolutely right that I am hypersensitive; been that way since I was knee high to a grasshopper. In the FAA people would say, that I was "too" sensitive. I would respond that I would prefer being overly sensitive than insufficiently sensitive (i.e. I don't DO insensitive).

In fact, I am convinced that YOU are a rather sensitive fellow and a genius in your own right. You figured it out and didn't buy the BAU bullshit. You knew it would you cost you to have principles. Yet you retained them. That's defined as lack of CFS by the apex predators that run the joint. I define it as doing the right thing, come hell or high water. You are there. GOOD!  (http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg)
But who knows? I may be projecting NOW by cleverly trying to flatter you into taking seriously my 'making it up as I go along just to be controversial' "baloney".  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp) (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_2932.gif) But really, you know that's not the way I roll. I may be a tad on the histrionic side (cue to - it must be his "latin" heritage LOL!) but you've never seen me get too exercised about total collapse from lack of fossil fuels, have you?  I've been accused of being a tecno-fix wishful thinker more than once. Guilty!  :(

I can be incorrigibly optimistic at times. But I have never based a word I have written here or anywhere else on deliberate falsehoods, pie in the sky or any other bit of razzle dazzle rhetoric just for the fun of it; I formulate my views on evidence (I am ashamed to say even my spiritual views are formulated on evidence - useless to most other people because it is 100% anecdotal - I did NOT 'make that up as I went along' but that's another subject.  8)).

Sure, I have several bones to pick, so to speak, with so-called modern civilization, the consensus that mankind has progressed due to secular humanism and so on. I'm not happy, to put it mildly, with how I have been treated and how I have been denied several opportunities in life despite being more gifted than my peers. But, hey, you can always say that is why losers pursue Christianity, right? They get the goodies they never got here in the next life. That's MKing's view, I'm sure.

My dad agreed with it. He called me Intelliburro. He knew that I knew the score and refused, from lack of CFS, to 'play the game'  (**** can the conscience for good pay). Martyr complex, anyone? Inferiority complex, anyone? Superiority complex, anyone? Delusional fellow thinks he's hot snot but is really a cold boogar, anyone? Whatever. ::)  I sleep quite well at night, in my view, BECAUSE I tell people exactly what I think is true and exactly what I think is false in no uncertain terms.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191456.bmp)

So, that leaves all those prudent, measured, cold blooded fine fellows that don't DO sensitive (because they consider it emotional, irrational, hysterical, illogical and so on) open to discard my "histrionics".    (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/fly.gif)

But I think they are punting ((http://www.pic4ever.com/images/237.gif)) BECAUSE what I say IS logical but uncomfortable to their paradigm  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/290.gif)   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)

What you did with Mary Shweitzer was an excellent example of punting. You are a capable wordsmith. You know exactly what I said and how I said it. I won't split hairs with you. Mary Shweitzer published credentialed research on T-Rex soft tissue (blood vessels and collagen) and hemoglobin, period. You said that was false. It was true. What the "earth is 6,000 years old" wishful thinking folks tried to make out of it is not relevant.

However, it IS USEFUL to use the creationist histrionics to undermine the credibility of the evidence in general, is it not? I'm being "hypersensitive" by becoming somewhat discomfited by being called a liar? I don't think so. If I get a rep for pushing WAY OUT THERE stuff (with your help  ;D) what does that do to my claims of ancient High Tech, HUH?

So, YEAH, in a world where being INsensitive is celebrated as favoring logic and reason, when what it actually favors is the **** canning of ethics and principles, feel free to label me as "hyper" sensitive.  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif)

I agree that one must not get burned out on anything and a healthy outlook requires a sense of humor. Old dogs should always be prepared, ready and willing to learn new tricks. But I enjoy a good rant as much as you do.   (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)   

AZ,
I don't question the age of the rocks. I do, however, question the dating of fossils in the rocks and the man made artifacts found in the rocks. The point is we should proceed with the view that "anomalous" findings in the fossil record and evidence of high tech in ancient artifacts CANNOT be discarded just because it doesn't "fit" the Darwinian paradigm.

Yet modern science REFUSES to even contemplate the possibility that we are Devolving, even though that is precisely what any OBSERVABLE phenotype appearance and genotype whittling events due to natural selection (dogs, bacteria, etc.) provides evidence for.  Things ARE winding DOWN, not up. But that's another subject. And a sore one at that BECAUSE the secular humanists will IMMEDIATELY equate it to bible thumping "the fall of man through sin" stuff. It's just another subject that the SO-CALLED logical thinkers cannot deal with reasonably.

I know you see everything in a light and vibrations paradigm. I just ask you to look for more common ground with the other world views so that you won't be dismissed outright. If you want people to listen to you, provide some evidence they can deal with.

I have seen some really weird stuff coming out in science now. They put stretched cloth over a speaker pointed up. The cloth is flat. Then they spread tiny particles of some type of sand or dust on the cloth. Different sounds began to produce some spectacular symmetrical shapes! WEIRD stuff. But beautiful too. Then it gets really crazy. They found a frequency that matches a carving in some ancient stone perfectly. There is a lot we don't understand about frequencies in sound as well as the total electromagnetic spectrum.     (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191404.bmp) That too is another subject.

Ashvin,
I hear ya. But don't you think that granite vase is pretty convincing of ancient high tech? And what about the marks on the workpieces that nobody understood until we had machines that make those kinds of marks in modern industry? That is evidence, not hearsay.

As to ET presence evidence, I agree that what we-the-people have access to is circumstantial. But here's one you will have some fun with as a lawyer. There is a tribe in Africa that science had to make up a tall tale (otherwise know as credible "scientific" speculation. LOL!) about. You see, they had astronomical information in their (strictly) oral tradition that they could not have had without telescopes. You see, what happened is that white explorers who knew about astronomy taught one or more tribal elders the astronomical information. Nothing to see here. Move along.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)

The problem is that said tribe is a wee bit more into astronomy than just having knowledge of Sirius A, B and possibly C. That dog gone Dogon tribe thinks they were given the info by aliens! And that's part of their religion BEFORE they were ever contacted by Western "civilization".

I have not looked deeply into it but I know that Science is very quick to delegitimize any idea that ET has been or is here while simultaneously supporting gobs of money being spent on radio telescopes to find ET. But this "hypothesis" (whitey gave them the info) was accepted without a SHRED of proof that the tribe had been contacted and given the astronomical data.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Toguna.jpg)
A Toguna

SNIPPET 1:

Dogon and Sirius

Quote
Certain researchers investigating the Dogon have reported that they seem to possess advanced astronomical knowledge, the nature and source of which have subsequently become embroiled in controversy. From 1931 to 1956 the French anthropologist Marcel Griaule studied the Dogon. This included field missions ranging from several days to two months in 1931, 1935, 1937 and 1938[28] and then annually from 1946 until 1956.[29]

SNIPPET 2:
Quote

Oberg points out a number of errors contained in the Dogon beliefs, including the number of moons possessed by Jupiter, that Saturn was the furthest planet from the sun, and the only planet with rings. Intrigue of other seemingly falsifiable claims, namely concerning a red dwarf star orbiting around Sirius (not hypothesized until the 1950s) led him to entertain a previous challenge by Temple, asserting that "Temple offered another line of reasoning. 'We have in the Dogon information a predictive mechanism which it is our duty to test, regardless of our preconceptions.' One example: 'If a Sirius-C is ever discovered and found to be a red dwarf, I will conclude that the Dogon information has been fully validated.'

This alludes to reports that the Dogon knew of another star in the Sirius system
, Ęmmę Ya, or a star "larger than Sirius B but lighter and dim in magnitude." In 1995, gravitational studies indeed showed the possible presence of a brown dwarf star orbiting around Sirius (a Sirius-C) with a six-year orbital period.[47] A more recent study using advanced infrared imaging concluded that the probability of the existence of a triple star system for Sirius is "now low" but could not be ruled out because the region within 5 AU of Sirius A had not been covered.[48]
  :o    (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogon_people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogon_people)
 
Eddie,
Good link. By the way, there's a sunken city off of India recently discovered that SEEMS to date prior to 9,500 BC (possibly up to 32,000 years ago). It's no stone age village, either. Over 250 separate cultures have a flood narrative. That cannot be a coincidence. There was a worldwide flood probably about 12,500 years ago caused by God knows what (super nova/meteor strike/volcanism maybe?) in addition to simple glacial melting.

Considering that most of the population NOW lives near sea level, which is quite a bit HIGHER than t was back then, a huge flood back then with lots of tectonic stuff thrown in would send them back to the stone age pretty quick.

Recently they discovered that Ceasarea port, a port built by King Herod (No, he was not a fictional character. But hey, if people can claim J.C. wasn't real, they'll be throwing in Herod, David and Solomon too before long in the "fictional" category. LOL!) sank because the hydraulic concrete pier structure gradually sank into the sand base. They did not put pilings into bed rock like they do now. There was no big cataclysmic earthquake and tidal wave like the one that did Alexandria in.

There is a LOT we don't know. I just get real tired of the scientific community's assumption that, until THEY admit something is real or even plausible, we are not supposed to. **** THAT! Those people are not high priests and they sure are not basing SPECULATION about whether there were or were not humans with high tech in the ancient past on anything but CONJECTURE. Their "absence of evidence" claim is incredibly convenient in the face of the FILTER they put out there to admit something IS evidence.

They just LOOK THE OTHER WAY when something doesn't "fit".  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)

A great example is that dinosaur carved in a temple. It's total bullshit to claim it was just a stone carver with a vivid imagination. But they KNOW where the admission that those ancients saw dinos would lead them so they LOOK THE OTHER WAY.

In South America they found hard evidence of a tribe that is African. Their cave paintings show them fighting a giant "Armadillo" (supposedly common in South America at the time...).

GIANT Armadillo!!!? I looked at the rock painting and it could have been a dino easy. The thing was the size of an elephant with short legs. I swear they just keep force fitting new findings into their "scientific" procrustean bed paradigm. Sure, lots of good science is done. But the INSTANT something doesn't "fit", out it goes. That's not science. 

At any rate, that's why I focus on fossils, artifacts, skulls and other physical objects that cannot be ignored as being real.

Also, as a former air traffic controller and pilot, I have a lot of respect for pilot testimony and USAF personnel testimony as well. These people HATE to talk against the system. I was there. I know how they think. When they come forward, they are telling the gospel truth. It's PAINFUL for them to lie.

They are not run of the mill people. But most civilians cannot understand that. In fact, since so many representatives of the military in the top brass are such bold faced liars, people assume the underlings are the same. NOPE! In the military, if you lie, you get in deep trouble very quickly. Weird, I know. Considering they are trained to destroy without conscience. But witness testimony of ET encounters by USAF personnel should be considered HARD EVIDENCE in a court of law.

UB,
Fascinating info from that taxi driver that did some archeology. All the questions Ashvin (and all the rest of us have) have about ET are moot if we can't get "in your face" evidence to everyone out there that they are here.

But let me speculate. I have previously mentioned that they may view us as a biologist views a lion pride with tool making abilities. A male lion will kill the offspring of another male lion if he can. The biologist does not interfere.

So it goes with ET up to a point. If the lion pride is causing it's major source of food supply to go extinct, the biologist may intervene, not just for the lion pride, but for the prey species too as a matter of biosphere balance.

Either way, the motives of the biologist when dealing with others of his species are quite different from those when dealing with the animals he/she/it/we/they study. Lions are sometimes darted so they can have a dangling tooth or a broken jaw repaired. The lion has no memory of when or how this was done. Also, others of the biologist's species may just want to kill the lion to get a trophy. It's a jungle out there.

WHERE do we get the idea that being self aware and sentient makes us BETTER, NICER or SUPERIOR? What's or track record? Why do we assume that IF some ETs are around AND they have superior technology, they are going to be just as "NICE" as Homo saps are?

Stephen Hawking wants no part of them. He says we should stop trying to communicate with them because, if they get wind of our existence, we will get the same "treatment" as Columbus gave the native Americans.

So we go round and round. ET isn't going to pay the rent so why talk about it? Because the assholes running the joint DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT THEY ARE SECOND FIDDLE! That's why!

But one might say there is no evidence that they can do "stuff" to TPTB if they want to. There is. THEY, in the 60s, on film, took a MIRV (multiple independent reentry vehicle) on a missile shot downrange in the Pacific and CAREFULLY zapped it several times and destroyed it. WE didn't do that. The Russians didn't do that. Who else but ET could do that?

Again, NONE of the WHYS are answerable until they are willing to converse publicly with the intelligent tool making naked killer apes. But we have a REAL PROBLEM with TPTB going bat **** insane with their profit over planet apex predator religion. So let's keep reminding these fucks that they are taking a long walk off a short pier if they keep insisting on this Wall Street insanity, not just from us, but from the new sheriff in town.

Am I making his up as I go along? NOPE. But TPTB are. Don't let them. They are lying to us to preserve their profits and power. Keep pushing for disclosure.

Finally, I am NOT concerned about getting "accepted" in the galactic fraternity or whatever. If they haven't squished us like a bug, by now, they probably won't. And I don't think the ET species are like the Skull and Bones at Yale where you have to "meet certain qualifications" to get promoted into the IN CROWD. But it's possible. We have pecking order, so maybe they have it too.



Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on February 21, 2015, 12:02:49 am
My Cousin, The Movie Star With a Conscience.

He acted with Meryl Streep, Elizabeth Taylor, Harrison Ford and other top movie stars. He began in theater and went on to movies later in life.

I will talk about the stuff not published. Raulito, as he was called in the family, was a very intelligent and talented man. He could sing beautifully and he could leave rolling on the floor with his jokes. They guy was an absolute riot to be around.

Quote
I remember I was like five or six years old; I played the devil. That was my first role.

But above and beyond that, he had a heart for the poor and downtrodden in this world. He never ceased to do whatever he could to help them. But first he had to overcome the obstacles placed in his path to stardom.

The first obstacle was his parents. My old man was really tight with his old man (they were first cousins). They both had a super macho outlook on life, liked to clown around at parties, had talent for singing, playing the guitar ( my father) and telling great jokes (Raulito's father).

They were both womanizers while being strict disciplinarians with their children (quite common in Spanish culture). His old man married a rich girl (only 15 at the time!) so he was basically set for life. His wife was a devout Catholic church goer like my mother.

That made my mom and his mom great friends too. They were both stoic ladies that looked the other way while their "childish" husbands fooled around. Raulito was several years older than me and I grew up mostly in the states side so I didn't get to know him until I was around 15 when the first tragedy in Raulito's life occurred.

At the time, his mom wanted him to be a priest and his dad wanted him to be a lawyer. Raulito tried the seminary but dropped out, to his mother's chagrin. He was faced with the alternative of becoming a lawyer. Being a top student, he could have become whatever he wanted, but he wanted to be an actor.

His parents were not having THAT! It's okay to express talent in singing, dancing, telling jokes and general enetertainment purposes at parties, but upper crust Spanish society frowns on the acting profession as one for low life morality free bohemians. The upper crust does all THEIR morality free stuff out of the public view, you see. It's a scandal to have a serious boy "doing stuff" in the theater or movies. So there! 

But the excesses of Raulito's dad were creating great stresses for his mom. She was very straight laced and Raulito's dad, unlike my dad, was too damned indiscrete about his philandering.

Then Rafaelito, Raulito's young brother about my age, was killed in a car accident.  The driver and front seat passenger survived unscathed. The driver was speeding on the, just inaugurated, new expressway and lost control of the car. It slide sideways into a concrete base light pole which split the car in two. The two rear passengers were killed instantly. Rafaelito was one of them.

His parents received a life insurance payment of around $20,000. Raulito's dad (Raul) chartered a mediterranian cruise on a sailboat with an all woman crew for a month or so for about $15,000 (1962 approximate time) to "get over his grief".  He left his wife, two daughters and Raulito in Puerto Rico to get over their grief in church. WTF!!?

I am 100% certain that Raulito, who was very close with his mom and loved Rafaelito dearly, was not pleased. Raulito then made the decison to discard the desires of his old man (that Raulito study law) and decided to become an actor, even if he might go hungry doing it.

Quote
Instead of acting in court, I decided to act onstage.
(http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg)   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)

There is something else you should know that never made the papers. Raulito's first fiance was also killed in a car accident within a year or so of his bother's death {head on collision by drunk driver). I never met her or his first wife. I met his second wife in 1987.

So, when Raulito began his acting career, he was already quite familiar with strong emotional pain. He was a method actor. If he was going to play a lawyer, he would study law. If he was going to play a hair stylist, he would work in a hair salon for a while. That's the way method actors prepare for roles. I don't know if his tragic experiences influenced him to become a method actor or not but I'm certain they indirectly helped him in his profession, in addition to making him a stronger person in the face of adversity.

Quote
We tend to think of meditation in only one way. But life itself is a meditation.

He got his (very slow) start in theater in New York City. It turns out he had done the math on the high probability of having absolutely no problems with weight gain as an actor.  ;D

Hunger was his constant companion for about a decade. He told me face to face how that went many years later (1986). I said, "You sure had a lot of guts to do that. I don't think I could have.". He just smiled and said it worked out and he would have rather died than do anything else so he just kept at it. Here's a famous quote of his about his life as a struggling theater actor:

Quote
Sometimes we used to eat once a day... chicken backs. You could buy four chicken backs for a quarter.

But he knew acting was his true vocation.

Quote
Thank God for the theater.

Quote
I knew there was something special about the theater for me something beyond the regular reality, something that I could get into and transcend and become something other than myself.

Thanks to a good (and influential) man in the USA, he managed to avoid a lot of the stereotype latino 'dumb guy' or 'low life crook' roles that are the typical Hollywood fare for minorities. Those of us who KNOW HOW IT WORKS in the USA, understand why this is done (i.e. to give most Americans the wrong idea about intelligence and ability in minorities   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp)). We understand that is quite deliberate. Raulito knew the score. He wasn't going to help propagandize whitey for money. Of course that made it quite a bit more difficult to make money for long time.

When he finally did hit the big time, he used his celebrity in the service of the downtrodden.

Quote
Just the fact that I've lived more, and I'm not concerned about when I am going to get my next job anymore. This business is free-lance and it's not a steady job. Younger, I would have been more preoccupied with myself.

It was a very profound experience, getting in touch with that part of us, in all of us human beings, that is committed beyond yourself to the point of giving everything you have, including your life, for other people, for your fellow man.

There are 38,000 people dying of hunger each day and most are children. And, being a celebrity, I communicate about it as much as I can.
  (http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/2thumbs.gif) 
When he played a Catholic Bishop that was assassinated, his mom (and mine) were ecstatic! His mom got to see her boy dressed as priest! By that time she had long been (SORT OF - see Catholic style legal separation with a promise to not remarry - she kept it) ) divorced from his dad although she would never remarry due to her Catholic religion.

Raulito put his heart and soul into that role. When he is ranting in the movie, it reminded me of hearing  my dad (or his dad) go on a tirade of righteous indignation (but my dad and his really had no grounds to do so - they were good actors too! ).

The movie was banned in El Salvador because it told the TRUTH about how Predatory Capitalism "does what it does" there. Raulito was dead serious in agreeing with what his character's role was saying. It was an  easy role for him to method act into because he shared the same ideals.

Quote
I have a very deep care for Latin America, and, of course, for what was going on in El Salvador.

His dad died in a car accident while in a drunken stupor in the late 1980's. I went to see him in the hospital. He was brain dead. They pulled the plug on him after a week or so. The guy just could not stop the heavy drinking and womanizing. So it goes. :(

But don't get the idea that Raulito was this morose, serious ranting type (like me!). This guy could make a joke out of ANYTHING! That look of his when he puts on that sly smile and looks to the one side like a naughty boy enjoying an inside joke is a TRADEMARK inside our family!  ;)  We all do it!

But of course, he did it better (pictures at the end of the article will illustrate "the look"  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-291014182422.png)).  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif)

Quote
You have to have the right atmosphere, really be in the right mood to really fully enjoy a Cohiba.

A cigar is as good as memories that you have when you smoked it.

Maybe it's like becoming one with the cigar. You lose yourself in it; everything fades away: your worries, your problems, your thoughts. They fade into the smoke, and the cigar and you are at peace.

Why pay $100 on a therapy session when you can spend $25 on a cigar? Whatever it is will come back; so what, smoke another one.

I even smoke in bed. Imagine smoking a cigar in bed, reading a book. Next to your bed, there's a cigar table with a special cigar ashtray, and your wife is reading a book on how to save the environment...
(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif)

Don't get the wrong idea from his joking. He was quite militant about protecting the environment.   (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/earthhug.gif)

Raulito became a multimillionaire movie star.

With his fame he was able to pick roles that defended the downtrodden and the environment.


I am certain he angered quite a few murderers in the service of profit over people and planet.  (http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg)  ;D

When he was doing "Kiss of the Spider Woman", he had to get skinny as a rail for his part in prison. He also had to kiss a man.  :P Around that time (1987) his second wife had their second child. He gave a party at the Berwind Country Club in Puerto Rico for the family. I guess it was a kind of a "home town boy makes good" thing. He and his wife showed off the new baby boy that was about six months old.

As is the habit of menfolk worldwide, later on, and with a few drinks in us, we gathered around him at the private bar in the area he had rented for the party. I asked him what was it like to work with Liz Taylor and Richard Burton a long time ago. He said they are quite different off screen and were quite friendly with him throughout the filming. They treated and respected him as a colleague.  (http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg)

Then one of my cousins (A.A.) looked at him rather crossly and said, Raulito, what's this business of kissing an HOMBRE? Raulito said, "It's just acting. It was part of the role".  A.A. pondered that a few seconds, ran his hand over his head and said, "Well, then I guess it's okay, but I sure wouldn't do it!". Everybody laughed and Raulito lifted his eyebrows and gave "the look". Then we really roared!

My brother Larry, always interested in the money angle, commented to Raulito that it must be great to be rolling in the green with all that movie money and asked him what his living expenses were. Raulito quoted a figure that amounted to several hundred thousand a year. Larry asked, "How come so much?". Raulito said he supported several movements for people and the environment that were quite costly.

He added that his lifestyle also required very expensive hotels when travelling or vacationing to keep from getting mobbed. He had to support a team of handlers that took care of fan mail, security, threats, scheduling and, of course, his agent. It goes with the territory of fame.

The last time I spoke to him was in January of 1990. He called the funeral parlor where my mother's body was being viewed and I happened to answer the phone.

I realized then what a hassle it was to be him on certain occasions when my "daughter" and one my nieces rushed to the phone when they realized Raulito was on the phone. They were begging me to ask him to send them an autographed picture. Such lack of decorum. It was their grandmother's funeral and my mother's funeral. So it goes.

I apologized to him and passed on the request. He said, no problem and not to worry about it. He would send the pictures to Sophia and Renee. I thanked him for the condolences, promised to pass them on to the others and we said goodbye.

A funny guy with a huge heart that I will always remember.


His name is Raul Juliá. The last name is NOT pronounced Júlia (like Julie). The accent goes on the last letter. 

Raul Juliá quotes source: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/rauljulia320711.html (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/rauljulia320711.html)

Biography:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%BAl_Juli%C3%A1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%BAl_Juli%C3%A1)

He could play a good guy as well as a bad guy and do great comedy (Movie pictures below).  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/19.gif)



Obit with a tribute

(http://i.imgur.com/WVdBVf7.jpg)
THE LOOK    (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif)



The Adams Family Character

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200215231007.png)



(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-100115191314.jpeg)
THE LOOK    (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif)


(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-100115191210.jpeg)


(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-100115191116.jpeg)


(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-100115191035.jpeg)


(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_RO7L_nsBp90/TdBpb2nT0LI/AAAAAAAABHs/QAVE7tHy_tU/RJ_thumb%5B1%5D.png?imgmax=800)


(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200215235323.png)
Bishop Oscar Romero played by Raulito

Quote

It was a very profound experience, getting in touch with that part of us, in all of us human beings, that is committed beyond yourself to the point of giving everything you have, including your life, for other people, for your fellow man.  Raul Juliá Arcelay

(http://meditationtechniques.co/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/1355783384832_raul-julia1.jpg)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on March 05, 2015, 09:59:21 pm
You can have everything in the universe. You can have it now. It is yours for free, and it is unconditional. This is God's covenant with every living thing that was ever born.

A seed of a giant redwood falls on the forest floor. It sticks a root into the ground and begins to consume. How much does it consume? As much as it wants! There are birds flying past my window right now going leaf to leaf, branch to branch, eating the seeds, berries, insects, whatever they want. How much are they taking? As much as they want!



You know, this subject is very interesting to me.

First off, any backsliding Christian from East Texas can tell you that this is straight from the Sermon on the Mount. Matthew 6:25-34.



(I still like the King James. It's what I cut my teeth on.)



25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


So....that's Jesus's take on it. He said that.....right after the part where he said you can't serve both God  and money. If you believe the New Testament is an accurate account.

And far be it from me to argue with Jesus. It's only some of Jesus's rabid fans whom I take issue with.

However, it seems to me that although man is not fundamentally different from the other animals, he does have one characteristic that influences his behavior that other animals don't. He has the brain power and the moral judgment to make decisions about what he should or shouldn't do.

Like...recently I was out on the stead with my dogs. They hemmed up another raccoon. The heeler had him treed at the base of a cottonwood tree that had collapsed into the creek, and he was barking to beat the band.

The fox terrier closed in for the kill from the water side. She was just about to take the first bite out of the coon's ass when I showed up, and she had her gorge up and no amount of hollering got through to her. I had to pick up a rock and bounce it off her flank to get her attention.

It's just their nature. They're bred to hunt. She didn't need to eat that coon to keep from starving. She wasn't even hungry. I could have let them kill it, but there was no reason to allow that. If I'd needed the meat, it would have been different. The coons have gotten thicker on the ground because of the deer corn I put out. So it was more or less my fault the coon was there in the first place.

Maybe not the best example, but what it amounts to is that plants and animals....every species but man (as far I know) has absolutely no conscience regarding killing, or whether to eat all or just some of whatever food is there. They just follow their natural instincts.

Maybe that's what's meant by the myth of the Fall from Grace, getting thrown out of the garden. We do have the knowledge of Good and Evil.

So...it seems to me that while it is okay to take what I need from the earth, that it's just plain wrong to take anything and everything I might want. That's what's gotten us into all this trouble. Too many people taking, and taking , and taking.

When our hunter-gatherer ancestors roamed the world, they could take what they wanted...and the environment and the other species recovered immediately. Now that isn't the case. We do take what we want, most of the time, and there just isn't enough left to go around anymore. I wonder what Jesus would have to say about that.


Eddie,
That's interesting about your dogs and the raccoons. I observed the same behavior as a kid with a snapping turtle and several frogs in a wash bucket. It killed them all even though it was not hungry. And it was my fault because I put that snapper in that wash bucket with all the frogs that could not escape.

We are the caretakers of this planet because we are the only self aware species. That's called Stewardship in the Bible and I agree with it. There is good stewardship and there is bad stewardship. Those are moral choices. As to the alleged "subjectivity" of morality that knarf claims, I resolved that issue long ago.

The Native Americans had the seven generation impact of whatever they did as the litmus test of morality (i.e. good stewardship). Translated to science speak, a decision by a self aware being that will result in the reduced viability of the biosphere for about 300 years is an immoral decision.

Hence morality involves each and every choice we make that impacts other Homo SAPS and ALL other life forms in the web of life called the biosphere. That is NOT a subjective issue.

Immoral behavior degrades the biosphere; moral behavior enhances it. Yes, that means that, in certain cases, what is immoral for civilized folks and several religions (including Christianity) is probably not really immoral when all is said and done.

Of course that can set up a slippery slope where genocide can be "justified" because a tribe was killing off the butterflies or some such ridiculous pretzel logic.

But aside from legalese jargon and fast and loose use of language to justify conscience free predation, it's pretty obvious what not the morality of doing anything that craps the biosphere for 300 years while we live means.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on March 19, 2015, 01:46:28 am
Quote
But I will give you one point in your logic that cannot be refuted. If the Libertarian style government was the norm, large armies, navies and air forces, as well as nation states, would not be funded.

Thanks AG, Lets face it Agelbert, no political party or system is perfect, you and I can find faults with all of them at any time.

When I hear we gotta stop these evil disgraceful wars and get the Government out of things they are not supposed to be doing, like spying on their citizens, turning the country into a militarized war zone, buying tanks and bazookas for local police, killing civilians with drones my ears perk up. To me Libertarians under a Ron Paul are not even close to being ideal, but just a step in the right direction is all.

Your point about a rebirth of MORALITY is the right point, that's what we need for sure. Unfortunately I'm not that much of a romantic to hold my breath waiting for that to come about, not without there being a RUDE AWAKENING first that is.  :-\

GO,
You are most welcome. Morality and no nonsense mandatory ethical behavior enforced by law is what we need. And yep, like you, I'm not holding my breath either.  :(

Here's a video (below) that I recommend. I believe these Dr. Strangeloves behind this global experiment (funded with our money   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp)) will get a VERY rude awakening when a HUGE chunk of Greenland ice sheet slides into the ocean, despite their feverish, and pseudo scientific, efforts to save fossil fueldom's ASS. Then there is going to be HELL to pay when it comes out that their experiment made everything WORSE.(http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/2thumbs.gif) 

And speaking of "Rude Awakening", I read that newsletter for almost a decade. In fact, the Libertarian that runs it (forgot his name  :-[) was the guy that made that statement about a monarchy being the best and most stable form of government if you have a benevolent monarch. He also said, as early as the year 2000, that gold was the "Trade of the Decade". He was right!

But after 2010, he said that gold was more of an inflation hedge than anything else. I agree with that too. But I'm not an investor so it really does not make much difference to me. He is of Irish descent from Maryland. He lived in France for a while and then went back to the USA. He's got a ranch in Argentina which is totally off grid that he used to spend a lot of time on. I have not kept up with what he is up to for years.

Here's that video. It will knock your socks off!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPfm1ljfwkU&feature=player_embedded

One more thing. The grim reaper made a low pass at me when I got up today (before I had posted or read anything so nobody here was the cause    (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp) ). I was feeling quite well, was engaged in emptying my bladder, when I got real dizzy and started to get nausea. I finished up as quick as I could and walked into my bedroom where my wife was talking to me and kneeled down on the floor.(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-020.gif) She saw I was doing the Syncope two step and became very concerned that the pacemaker battery was failing (It's supposed to last ten years and I'm a little over eight). I managed to go to the computer room (while my wife was telling me to lay down on the bed NOW! ), grab my pulse watch (pilots love to read the gages!  ;D) and go back the few steps to the bedroom where I laid down. My wife said I was very pale.  :o  :P  I checked my pulse and it was at 61. I kept checking it and it dropped to 56, then 53, then, within seconds (an ETERNITY for the pacemaker software!) up to 62.

The pacemaker is supposed to kick in at 60. There is NOT supposed to be a delay.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp) After a few minutes my pulse got up to between 65 and 70. I did not actually faint and the nausea went away within a couple of minutes along with the dizziness so the pacemaker IS working, but I felt rather strange the rest of the day. My hands stayed cold until I exercised a few hours later. My wife has been hovering over me. I showed her where to push on my sternum for CPR if the agelbert batteries crap out. She was not a happy camper. I marked the date so the pacemaker clinic can look at "episode" data when they dump it on my next check up.     

I'm okay now. Cheated death again.  (http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-052.gif)

Nearer my Lord, to thee.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 12, 2015, 05:36:59 pm
Intimations of Mortality (http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,4594.msg72867/topicseen.html#msg72867)
Off the keyboard of Surly1
(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/freda-blackboard.jpg)
Artwork: Anthony Freda

Originally published on the Doomstead Diner on April 5, 2014

"Any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde;  And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee."

?John Donne



It was a milestone week. I turned 65. Like many, I never thought I would reach this age. Yet this very week I learned that several childhood friends did not. Three have passed this year, two of whom played significant roles in my early life and then drifted away, like we do.

Allow me to beg your indulgence from taking the pulse of doom to indulge a few personal observations.
We children of Happy Motoring, were raised on the Flintstones and the Cleavers as a vision of family life, and on the Jetsons as a vision of a cornucopian future. As the son of an electrician and a homemaker, I was raised on trade union Democrats values– economically liberal, socially conservative,  and expected that I would somehow take my place in a world much like theirs. Uh, no. By the time I left college, that world that no longer existed.

During my lifetime it’s all changed– the New Deal social contract has been rescinded, and the prescription, we’re told, is austerity for workers and tax breaks for corporations and the one per cent.  In the 1960s a single earner could pay the rent or mortgage, clothe and feed a family, buy a car and maybe have a little left over for a vacation. Now two earner (or more) households have become the norm,  and the vast majority of paychecks yield far less earning power than that of a union electrician in 1965.

I recall a lesson from fifth grade.  We learned about the “melting pot,” complete with an illustration of people of all nationalities and races happily jumping into a pot to make soup. The point being we were a nation of immigrants, bonded together in the notion that, “out of many, one:” E Pluribus Unum.  Today armed, angry white men patrol the southern borders in search of brown faces without papers. A nation built on immigrants no longer welcomes immigrants, unless they bring an independent fortune or skills favored industries need.

I was the second of my family to enter college, and my luck to enroll during the height of Vietnam. I went in patriotic, full of received wisdom and civic virtue,  and enrolled in ROTC, earned a scholarship and was prepared to enter the Regular Army as an officer.

Then came the USS Pueblo incident, and then My Lai. Those episodes shattered closely held beliefs and preconceptions. At once, my college experience transformed from 13th and 14th grade to learning how to think, perhaps for the first time. What, you mean our government would leave Lloyd Bucher and those sailors to rot in a North Korean prison? What, you mean kids like me uncritically murder Asian women and children? What, we’re not the good guys? I began to question everything that I had been taught, and from there, everything changed.

On reaching adulthood and employment in which the demands were on mind rather than body, my style would be to work hard, play harder and cram as much as possible into what would doubtless be a few short years. To the surprise of all, those stretched on. My MO was that while I might not be the brightest or most talented, I was a grinder who would succeed through sheer dint of effort and persistence. 80 hour weeks punctuated with long evenings of riotous relief, and, uh, excess? A way of life. For a while.

It took many years to realize that what I did was not who I was. There were victories; and there were losses.
The losses give you perspective, and remind that the bell eventually tolls for all of us.

And with that ringing in my ears, I now approach the final laps of a career in media, including photography, video, film and writing. A time to think of What’s It All Been About, and What Have I Learned Along the Way? Having made every possible mistake along the way, committed every sin short of murder, and been slow to learn from experience, repeating most mistakes several times, a few simple principles  have emerged:

1) Kindness. Always be kind.   Easy to lose track of when we are young and on the make, in competition with others and serving those all-important ego needs. We get sucked–or leap– into the matrix and forget what’s really important, which are relationships.

2) Don’t criticize, condemn or complain.
Dale Carnegie makes this his first rule of human relations. In college I played interior line, and wrestled. My job was to knock other people down.  After a while the workplace, as in life, one eventually begins to learn that not every adversary needs knocking down, and not every obstacle is an adversary- some are opportunities. Some learn this essential truth later rather than earlier.  It’s amazing how relationships change when you stop being critical of others, and thus engage their own self protective mechanisms. Duh.

3)  Live in the Present. In my 20s, I encountered a slender tome by Baba Ram Dass  entitled, “Be Here Now.”  As I recall, it was about the importance of being fully present in the here and now.  It resonated. How many of us spend time rehashing old wounds, or worrying about the future? There is a reason that the “Recitation of the Grievances” made famous by Jerry Stiller’s Festivus celebration on Seinfeld was so funny– because it’s so true.  Whenever I return home, I become 15 again as my 86 year old mother opens a trunk full of 60-year-old grievances. Was it Voltaire who said, “My life is been filled with one catastrophe after another, most of which never occurred?”  We spend a lot of time worrying about uncertainties, when the effort is better placed on creating a desired reality.

So we Boomers came of age and enjoyed the blessings of cheap energy and a dollar backed by nukes and military force. Now the energy is getting more dear, harder to extract and the dollar is closer than ever to losing reserve status, all at a time when good jobs remain hard to find.

My life has been modest in material terms, but has been enough. Enough to enjoy a working class standard of living, a decent home and raise a daughter.  It’s a life I’ve chosen, with no apologies or excuses. What brings me to the Diner each day is the realization that it’s all doomed,  and I will miss it when it’s all gone.  Between the neocons eager to fight World War III down to the last drop of your grandchildren’s blood,  and the crony capitalists and their bankster allies  determined to bleed the last drops of wealth out of the near empty husk of what used to be America’s middle class, it appears that those at the top of the pyramid have determined that the world needs to shed about 6 billion “useless eaters” and redundant population.  What do corporations do when they have excess workforce? They lay them off.

Prepare to be “laid off.”

Quote
The clouds that gather round the setting sun

Do take a sober colouring from an eye

That hath kept watch o’er man’s mortality;

Another race hath been, and other palms are won.

Thanks to the human heart by which we live,

Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears,

To me the meanest flower that blows can give

Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears.


 –Wordsworth,  Intimations of Immortality
                                 
           
 
People aren’t stupid. Most people, from urban liberals to country rednecks, can sniff the zeitgeist  “Survivalists” have been around since the 70s. Nowadays, more people are turning to “prepping”, including many on the far right, who have repaired to fortified compounds in Idaho, etc., the better to wait out the zombie hordes and/or the black helicopters. (Bracing, is it not, to think that the Mormons will be the subset of Americans best positioned to transition through the Zero Point?)

Karma is a ****. If one reaps what one sows, our portion today is the inevitable bitter harvest of decades of government lies and perfidy, from the Warren Commission’s “magic bullet” to the 9/11 cover story to the lack of faith in the very function of government due to corporate capture.  People are sick of being lied to; people are sick of seeing their unresponsive government toady to lobbyists, while ignoring the needs of ordinary citizens. So they’re planning for it all to end, and quite literally taking matters into their own hands for when it does.

One of the great blessings of my dotage is having found the woman that shares my home and life.  I met Contrary quite literally in the streets during the height of Occupy.  Casual conversation developed into a friendship that then exploded into something quite unexpected.  Had anyone told me that I would be getting married after decades of living as a single man, I would have doubled down on that action and covered all I could get.  Well. Surprise, surprise. I now live with my best friend, confidant and a veritable Scheherazade, a wellspring of both stories and common ****ing sense.

As a child, my grandmother had ice delivered by horsedrawn dray, and lived to see man land on the moon and the end of the Soviet Union. Considering my own lifetime, in which cheap energy draws to a close, I can see our current mode of living will not survive our generation. We have been reduced to a “precariat,” a term used by that servant of hell Alan Greenspan.  Prospects for our young people of gone from bad to worse.  Our grandchildren will shake their heads in disbelief when they hear stories about the way their parents used to live. 

When the dollar loses reserve status, the American lifestyle will be reduced to that of the average Croatian today; couple that with the significant and increasing likelihoods of environmental collapse, water shortages or nuke plant meltdowns, and the prospects darken even more. The good news is that the holders of real wealth, those who own property, metals, real assets will survive substantially intact. The only people who will suffer are those who are paid in, save or spend dollars, and who **** away their earnings on luxuries like food, rent, heat, and medicines.

So near the end of it all, it looks as if we’re at the end of it all. Makes a fellow wistful. What matters is that we make such common cause as we can, treat one another as well as we are able, and greet uncertainty with grace and dignity.  And be grateful that that bell has not yet tolled, and that the grave has not yet opened for that dirt nap.

Intimations of Mortality (http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,4594.msg72867/topicseen.html#msg72867)

(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/banksy-07-flower-thrower-wallpaper-e1423051661990.jpg) Surly1 is an administrator and contributing author to Doomstead Diner. He is the author of numerous rants, articles and spittle-flecked invective on this site, and quit barking and got off the porch long enough to be active in the Occupy movement. He shares a home in Southeastern Virginia with his new bride Contrary in a triumph of hope over experience, and is grateful that he is not yet taking a dirt nap.



Surly,
Thank you for your honesty. That, in and of itself, is rare among Humans.  (http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/2thumbs.gif) 

I wish I could say what you said about past experiences. I can't. When I look back on what happened and when it happened and what I did, NOT KNOWING what was actually happening, to further compound my errors in life, I am actually glad it is almost over. I was mostly a stupid chump.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)

My only accomplishment in life has been that, after God knocked some sense into me, I am willing to die to avoid doing the wrong thing. (http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/2thumbs.gif) Doing the right thing is to "Trust God and lean not upon your own understanding".

Everything else is missing the mark.

Forgive my arrogance and lack of humility, but I consider that the only achievement that has any merit whatsoever while our soul occupies a body. Of course, most here don't just disagree, they get a great laugh about anyone ignorant enough to believe in a personal God and salvation through Faith in Him, practiced ONLY by obedience to Him. 

Unlike you, Surly, a person who has demonstrated with his life and example that working for the good of the whole is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than working for the good of the individual, most humans are convinced that providing for their biochemical needs and surrounding themselves and their loved ones with possessions is the only prudent course of action for a Homo SAP. Looking out for number one and number one's offspring is IT, as far as they are concerned, no matter how much pretense of working for the good of humanity they may espouse.

IF IT ALL ENDED HERE, THEY WOULD BE JUSTIFIED IN THEIR EGOCENTRISM. BUT IT ONLY STARTS HERE... 8)

(http://biblepic.com/53/17761.jpg)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 12, 2015, 08:13:07 pm
I wish I could say what you said about past experiences. I can't. When I look back on what happened and when it happened and what I did, NOT KNOWING what was actually happening, to further compound my errors in life, I am actually glad it is almost over. I was mostly a stupid chump.    (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)


My only accomplishment in life has been that, after God knocked some sense into me, I am willing to die to avoid doing the wrong thing. (http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/2thumbs.gif)  Doing the right thing is to "Trust God and lean not upon your own understanding".

Everything else is missing the mark.

My friend, thank you for taking the time to read this little screed. I often think no one reads anything I write.

When you say, and I quote,

Quote
I was mostly a stupid chump.

... you must realize that I have spent the bette part of a lifetime in that role. Every lesson I learned, I paid retail plus 30 for, because I come from a long line of hardheads to whom no one can tell anything.

I identify with what you have written about wanting to leave a little something behind for your wife, as I do now too, waiting to spare her waiting in line at the plasma bank.

One of the great blessings of this misspent life is time with my daughter. She had a rare day off today and spent it hanging out with me. She's 23 going on 50, whereas I have friends who decry the immaturity of their 50 year-olds. Counting blessings and feeling grateful...

Quote
retail plus 30

Same here. The latest "installment" is still ANOTHER fast one by my ever loving family and the Courts. The judge got together with the bank after dragging her feet for nearly two months to authorize "mediation" proposed by the bank.

The judge finally figured out why the bank was playing dead (in theory, mediation would have eliminated conditio juris for a bank auction of the house by a payment plan for the tiny debt of $5,912 on a building worth $700,000 plus). What they ACTUALLY wanted to accomplish was to have an excuse to charge ME with contempt of court and make ME a rebel so the foreclosure could proceed. The court "mediation authorization" order made it CLEAR that anyone who didn't show up can be charged with contempt.

This is not normal in that type of a court order. In fact the rules of procedure in all court orders ASSUME that anyone ordered to a proceeding can be found in contempt if they don't go.      (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191404.bmp)

I smelled a rat and said so to my wife. She said it didn't make sense for the widow, who now had a lawyer, to not pay the $5,912 so the bank would get taken out of the picture. At that point, with the house paid for, a sale of the property could proceed without the widow (or me) getting shafted.

My wife did not think it possible that the widow could be so stupid as to go along with the fraud perpetrated by the bank, the judge and my siblings. So I hoped for the best. At any rate, I did not think it prudent to travel 1,500 miles one way to get my ass handed to me. My brother is not a nice guy. Life is cheap in Puerto Rico.

My brother (with his power of attorney from all my other siblings), the one that has been ABSENT, along with all the others, from all court proceedings since day one and the widow (my stepmother) showed up with ZERO intention to pay anything.

Their job was to DEMONIZE ME in the time tested motto of the Court System (Vox Populi, Vox Dei - "the voice of the PEOPLEMOB is the voice of GOD"   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)).  I didn't go on April 9, 2015. The next day I called the mediator to see what the results of the mediation were.

The "mediator" told me over the phone that the case had been returned to the judge because "not all parties were present" and "other things she learned that were confidential and I had no right to know". I calmly said that as a party to the lawsuit, I though I had a right to know. She repeated that I had no right to the information on the motion she had sent to the judge and "other things she learned that were confidential". When I said the bank had only been interested in negotiating with the widow, she said that was not her concern. She said that if I had a complaint, I should get a lawyer and tell the judge.

I was taken aback by her tone, which was arrogant, angry and dismissive. I was very low profile and low key throughout the conversation and never raised my voice or spoke rapidly. When I asked her to calm down, she almost screamed into the phone that she was "calm". I then realized what had happened (the whole "mediation" thing was a setup) and, in total defeat, said, "God bless you", She angrily responded, "AND YOU TOO!". I said bye but she had hung up already. 

SO, I'M the bad guy now, will be found in contempt of court followed by the house being auctioned AND have whatever fine (sanción) the HONORABLE judge slaps me with, OF COURSE. deducted from the pittance that I might get from the auction (Most likely, I will end up OWING the court money after my entire inheritance is stolen from me - stealing from me wasn't enough; they have to punish me for wanting justice too.).  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp)

They are very prudent in their own eyes. So it goes.

And ANYONE STUPID ENOUGH to state that I could have avoided the contempt charge by showing up, does not understand that a crooked system has OTHER OPTIONS in readiness if that one isn't "effective" in shafting the target. So if YOU KNOW WHO shows up to defend the court system, I have a GIANT FINGER ready for him if he dares to do so.

I told my wife I should have never submitted all the legal motions. She said that everything I stated was true and regardless of how crooked the judges, the bank, my family and the widow are, telling the truth about this carefully planned and orchestrated fraud was the right thing to do. Somebody read it and somebody learned something about how greed and evil works, hopefully, to avoid being victimized by it in a similar fashion.

God will judge them in His Court. There is no corruption there.

Sorry to be so down. I'm glad you can be grateful. Good for you.
(http://imageprest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Sunflower02.png)

 
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 14, 2015, 03:59:00 pm
(http://clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/images/people/lincoln/lincoln_rob_young.jpg)
Robert Todd Lincoln

Quote
Robert Todd Lincoln – “Bob” to his family and friends – was dubbed the “Prince of Rails” during his “Railsplitter” father’s 1860 campaign for president, after a visit to this country by England’s Prince of Whales. Robert was a prince that would never ascend to the throne.

He was the oldest of the four children – all boys - of Mary and Abraham and the only one to reach maturity. He lived a long life. Born in 1843, he died in 1926.
http://clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/articles/lincoln/prince_rails.htm (http://clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/articles/lincoln/prince_rails.htm)

This is an interesting article about Robert Todd Lincoln, son of Abraham Lincoln,  who was present at the SEGREGATED  :P 1922 dedication of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Robert_Todd_Lincoln_-_Harris_and_Ewing.jpg)
Robert Todd Lincoln

by Mark Bushnell, a historian and writer who lives in Middlesex, Vermont.

SNIPPET 1:

Quote
During his tenure as secretary of war, Robert got blood on his own hands, Vowell asserts, having been ultimate responsibility for a botched expedition to the North Pole. Under the auspices of the Department of War, a 25-man scientific research team had started for the pole the same week Garfield was shot. The men established a base at the pole and waited in vain for resupply or rescue.

Some historians blame Robert’s lack of interest in the expedition for its inadequate provisioning. The starving men eventually tried to head south. Only six of them survived the journey, which they did by eating some of those who did not.

Robert Lincoln and others tried to cover up the cannibalism by claiming that the bodies of the dead had been cut up for bait.

SNIPPET 2:

Quote
Few people knew about other connections between the Booth and Lincoln families. A couple of years before the assassination, Robert Lincoln had been moving between moving train cars when he slipped.

A man reached out and grabbed Robert’s coat, saving him from being crushed between the heavy train cars. “That was a narrow escape, Mr. Booth,” said Robert, having immediately recognized his savior, Edwin Booth .

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-060914180936.jpeg)

Robert Todd Lincoln, harbinger of presidential doom (http://vtdigger.org/2015/04/12/robert-todd-lincoln-harbinger-of-presidential-doom/)

Robert Todd Lincoln is a very interesting character to me. You know that he was the one who had to deal with his mother, who ended up institutionalized. Her situation was tragic, but it must have been living hell for him to deal with her suicidal depression and bipolar craziness.

You know that he probably destroyed a great deal of her correspondence, and also refused to allow the release of his father's papers until after his own death in 1926. At that point, a lot of books about Lincoln has already been written, many of them not too accurate.



Eddie,
Yes, Robert hired Pinkerton guards to follow his mom around and keep her out of trouble before he finally took her to Court (with all the testimony from the Pinkerton fellows to help put her away, of course). But after she was institutionalized, she won her release In Court. They never spoke again.

ALL her brothers fought on the Southern side in the Civil War. ALL her children except Robert died young. It's a wonder she didn't go crazy sooner. I think it was Robert's Responsibility to take care of her. I think it was wrong to try to "put her away" as is the American wont with "inconvenient" family members that are "embarrassing" the family. Robert had the money and the time to care for his mom with paid help AT HER HOME. Had she been violent to herself or other people, I would agree that she be institutionalized. But she wasn't. So it was an example of a self centered attitude so prevalent in this society.

I'm not trying to judge him. I simply don't agree that relatives can be stuffed into institutions when they are losing it.  I think that is irresponsible, but quite modern and accepted DARWINIAN, apex predator, survival of the fittest, egocentric and conscience free behavior.

I have BEEN THERE where Robert's mom was. It is WRONG to shaft a relative because of a mental crisis. But that is what my family did when I had a crisis. They never stopped demonizing me after that. That is how I got my disability retirement from the Federal Government.

I'm not crazy. I never was. I simply had a crisis. This society is an unforgiving piece of ****, Eddie.

Robert Todd Lincoln was NOT being charitable or responsible by trying to off load his responsibility to care for his mom. She had suffered FAR more than he had. Please take that into consideration.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 14, 2015, 06:44:14 pm
Having had the experience of having a bipolar mother myself, I guess I can't help but feel sympathy for the son, although my brothers (after the death of my father) were the ones who did most of the heavy lifting, had to deal with Mom's mental illness, much more than I did.

Well then, you are indebted to your brothers. Our parents did the heavy lifting to raise us. We owe them any and all heavy lifting they require later in life.

That is why, despite my dad's successful efforts to deny me my mother's inheritance, I never tried to sue him.

I did not like that greedball. He ran the household I grew up in like a permanent Army boot camp. As soon as my feet were big enough, all I ever got were G.I. shoes because they were the cheapest. Christmas "presents" were mostly clothing. Other clothing and sneakers was mostly from the thrift shop (second hand from other military families that donated clothing).

But ALL my dad's clothing, except the uniforms, was top of the line (See the Dictator complex). He had silver embroidered ties while he complained about how fast our hair grew ("forcing" him to give us our crew cuts) and how we were eating too much and outgrowing our clothes too quickly. The guy was a permanent disher outer of 24/7 guilt trip psychological abuse so we would feel guilty for being such moochers and grateful to his royal fascist highness for all his "sacrifices". He actually complained to me when I was a teenager that I "made too much noise" when I was pis sing in the toilet!

OF course he never missed a Sunday golf game with his personal golf clubs, bag and cart (he NEVER paid a caddie). And he was SO PROUD of that HAPPY FAMILY of 7 children that he took such GREAT CARE OF.  ::)

But he did keep me fed and clothed while growing up. Yes, he was an abusive fu ck, but, I know my responsibilities. He died at the ripe old age of 95 in 2008. I hope he extracted his head out of his self centered ass before he died. RIP.  8)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 14, 2015, 07:57:43 pm

You don't think it is a good thing to be allowed to think for oneself, and to be able to pursue one's own path to one's own goals? What point is there to survival if only groupthink is allowed?

The problem is that Individualism leads to EXTINCTION, not SURVIVAL.

Assuming this is true (which I don't, but I'll get to that), I ask again, what is the point of surviving if you are not allowed to think for yourself?

Quote
Individualism deemphasizes your dependence on the Group to survive.  By becoming Individualistic, we fractured the society and lost our group understanding of our dependence on the rest of the environment to support not only our own species, but all species.

I guess you haven't noticed my posts about Green Libertarian Socialism. If you had, you would be aware that I am aware of the danger that unrestricted individualism has to the environment, that as I just stated (to Eddie) that I am not in favor of a Ron Paul-like like libertarianism. Any individualist who is not aware of his dependence on the biosphere and of his group to survive is a dangerous idiot.

On the other hand, if the group does not allow individualism, then it does not deserve to survive.


Quote
Individualism is the precursor to Greed, because it allows you to justify your own well being at the expense of others in your community.

I dispute this, in that there was Greed long before individualism became an ideal. Greed, and other sins of groupthink societies (like worries about losing face) arise because the groupthink honors the rich and famous. And that has been around as long as history. Individualism, however, never became an ideal until the modern era -- in fact, modernism can just about be defined as the rise of the ideal of individualism.

Quote
The individual can only exist though if the community exists.  So the individual has to be subservient to the needs of the community, which in fact includes all the other living creatures on the earth as well.

Yes, the individual needs the community, but the community also needs individuals who can think outside the box so that when conditions change it has a way to adapt. So how do we reconcile these needs?

My answer is green libertarian socialism. The social structure needs to be set up so that basic needs of everyone are met, yet in a way that prevents the rise of a nomenklatura, and that preserves the biosphere. And does not require everyone to chant slogans from the Little Red Book. To achieve this will take a lot of thinking, but I think it can be done, but almost certainly not realizable until enough of the thinking class sees it as the only viable alternative.

Ka,
Well, YEAH, Green Libertarian Socialism does take care of circumscribing individualism to behavior that doesn't harm the community/biosphere. (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_0293.gif)

But RE might claim that the individual IS TOTALLY subservient to the community (i.e. the biosphere) under Green Libertarian Socialism. Me too  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp) . The reason for that is that the buttons that are pushed inside our gray matter when somebody talks of "individualism" are DOING WHATEVER YOU WANT, WHENEVER YOU WANT TO DO IT. As you said, that IS being an idiot.

But THAT is how our society defines "individualism". Your nuanced and ethical definition that differentiates from the individualism (which includes boundless greed) of Nero, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan and so on is, as you have said before, a hard sell for the average Libertarian (or average American, for that matter).

THAT was the type of "individualism", I believe, that RE is referring to. That is the type of "individualism" that you consider only an idiot would have.

I agree. But the Green Libertarian Socialism definition of "individualism" is not part of the common parlance.

Thinking "out of the box" has always been a function of the wise, regardless of whether they were groupthink type societies or the more dysfunctional, "everyone for themselves" modern social structures.

Are you saying that wise people ONLY began "thinking out of the box" when individualism was given free rein in society? If so, I would beg to differ. That premise will not hold water.

As a matter of fact, modern society is HARDER on "free thinkers" than those with the "calculate seven generation effects before making changes" world view.

We ARE NOT allowed to invent ANY device that challenges the Corporate Status Quo. IF we try, we get suppressed, bought or bopped. The rigid control of Homo SAP thought and endeavor is WORSE THAN NEVER. And the celebrated people TODAY are the greediest IDIOTS the world has EVER witnessed. Paulson, Buffet, Koch Brothers et al put Nero to SHAME!

Your belief in the necessary contribution that thinking outside the box is, of course, is valid. But linking it to "individualism" is incorrect. Thinking outside the box comes from wisdom, not from studying the rules to see how you can break them and make a profit. SOMETIMES the "new widget" that makes somebody some big bucks improves social conditions.

But, by and large, the ones that actually do, are suppressed before they get to market. We have a destructive inertia in our brand of "Capitalist individualism" BECAUSE only the "celebrated" greedballs actually CAN act as individuals. And when they do, which is most of the time, they act like the destructive idiots that they are.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 14, 2015, 10:22:00 pm

You don't think it is a good thing to be allowed to think for oneself, and to be able to pursue one's own path to one's own goals? What point is there to survival if only groupthink is allowed?

The problem is that Individualism leads to EXTINCTION, not SURVIVAL.

Assuming this is true (which I don't, but I'll get to that), I ask again, what is the point of surviving if you are not allowed to think for yourself?

I could speculate on a lot of reasons, like the point is to love others, or to observe the world around you and take joy in it etc.  However, since you speculate that Individualism didn't exist back in the distant past, what was the point then of surviving?

Quote
Individualism deemphasizes your dependence on the Group to survive.  By becoming Individualistic, we fractured the society and lost our group understanding of our dependence on the rest of the environment to support not only our own species, but all species.

I guess you haven't noticed my posts about Green Libertarian Socialism. If you had, you would be aware that I am aware of the danger that unrestricted individualism has to the environment, that as I just stated (to Eddie) that I am not in favor of a Ron Paul-like like libertarianism. Any individualist who is not aware of his dependence on the biosphere and of his group to survive is a dangerous idiot.

I did miss those posts.  Just from the title though, "Libertarian" & "Socialism" in the same sentence is an Oxymoron.  I've never met a Libertarian who was a Socialist and vica versa.  It sounds like a kludge to me.

On the other hand, if the group does not allow individualism, then it does not deserve to survive.

See above.

Quote
Individualism is the precursor to Greed, because it allows you to justify your own well being at the expense of others in your community.

I dispute this, in that there was Greed long before individualism became an ideal. Greed, and other sins of groupthink societies (like worries about losing face) arise because the groupthink honors the rich and famous. And that has been around as long as history. Individualism, however, never became an ideal until the modern era -- in fact, modernism can just about be defined as the rise of the ideal of individualism.

How do you know Greed predates Individualism?  If you define Individualism as beginning with modernity (when did that begin?) you might make that case, but IMHO you had Individualism going right back to the beginning of Ag.  Kings, Pharoahs etc clearly acted Individually making rules for the society.

Anyhow, while Greed likely existed in some form before Individualism, it really took off with this ideal.


Quote
The individual can only exist though if the community exists.  So the individual has to be subservient to the needs of the community, which in fact includes all the other living creatures on the earth as well.

Yes, the individual needs the community, but the community also needs individuals who can think outside the box so that when conditions change it has a way to adapt. So how do we reconcile these needs?

My answer is green libertarian socialism. The social structure needs to be set up so that basic needs of everyone are met, yet in a way that prevents the rise of a nomenklatura, and that preserves the biosphere. And does not require everyone to chant slogans from the Little Red Book. To achieve this will take a lot of thinking, but I think it can be done, but almost certainly not realizable until enough of the thinking class sees it as the only viable alternative.

I never said that Individualism should be eliminated, only that it must remain subservient to the needs of the Group.  In the words of Mr. Spock:

(http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/kirk-and-spock-needs-quote.png)

That's just CFS.  Or as Spock would say, "Logical".

RE
  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif) (http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/2thumbs.gif)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 11, 2015, 07:57:11 pm
Actual footage of MIT undergrads working on this technology under laboratory conditions.

[embed=425,349]http://youtu.be/nxMRpql7Ook[/embed]

I first you don't succeed, open another Guinness.

 ::) I not only bring out the curmudgeon in you, I bring out the snarky side as well.  ;D

In 1969, yours truly attended sea survival school at Homestead Air Force Base. We had a lot of fun and learned all sorts of cool facts like "Drinking urine is not recommended because of the high salt content" and other gems of CFS that downed fliers might not possess. After some fun and games (falling 60 feet along a wire attached to a parachute harness that splashed into a pond where we had to "release the chute", swim under a floating chute to prove we wouldn't get tangled in it, and then climb on a raft.), they gave us a taste of the real thing in Biscayne bay.

(http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy178/KiwiBiggles/005.jpg)

We would, attached to a parachute, be towed off a floating platform and launch into the air like an aircraft taking off from an aircraft carrier. After parasailing a few minutes, they waved a red flag from the speed boat. At about 300 feet above the waves, I hit the release of the tow rope. Then I carefully opened the chute release rings as I floated down (you have to stick one arm over each riser in case you pull the ring release when you open the cover).

Then you watch the horizon so you can yank the rings about 20 feet before impact. You do this because, once you are in the water, your weight is off the chute and it is an absolute BEAR to get the rings to release the chute. Downed fliers were drowned this way by either getting tangled in the chute OR having a strong wind drag them for miles, face down, over the water surface.

Once in the water, we all gathered on an 18 man raft and were picked up by a chopper (we had to swim away from the raft to get fished out). We could NOT touch the lift harness until it was in the water (they said it would shock the **** out of us if we did -so you swim at it as it descends and frantically swim away when it is coming too close. LOL!).

But, to make a long story even longer :icon_mrgreen:, we did the condensation ball moisture capture thing to get drinking water way back then.  It's part of the issue equipment on pilot survival gear.  8)

The MIT invention is NOT that. The MIT invention is a bonafide bit of Renewable Energy technology that will help people in third world countries and help Americans as we transition to third world status too. But you know that.   (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6869.gif)

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-110515184812.jpeg)

Quote
The finished prototype is small enough to fit in a tractor-trailer and includes photovoltaic cells to supply the electricity. The system, when fully operational, can supply the basic water needs of a village of between 2,000 and 5,000 people, MIT officials said. Although the prototype was more expensive, Wright said the team is hopes to lower the costs of a village-sized unit to about $11,000.   (http://www.emofaces.com/png/200/emoticons/fingerscrossed.png)

Such a lower-power system is useful mainly for treating brackish water and not seawater, which contains far more salt. But the prototype now being tested could handle water that contains salt concentrations of up to 4,000 parts per million, meaning it would work in about 90 percent of India’s wells, Wright said. Seawater’s salt concentration averages about 35,000 parts per million.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/08/1383429/-MIT-created-a-solar-powered-machine-that-turns-saltwater-into-drinking-water (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/08/1383429/-MIT-created-a-solar-powered-machine-that-turns-saltwater-into-drinking-water)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on August 30, 2015, 07:16:30 pm
Agelbert NOTE: I am congratulating fossil fueler MKing on the purchase of a Ford Fusion Energi EV.

Well done, MKing.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191456.bmp)


I am relieved of the thought that you were going to "take advantage of low gasoline prices"  by buying a hummer.  ;D

I've already owned one. It was okay. 15 mpg around town, got as good as 19mpg on the highway. Used it for one family christmas trip. It was a bit tight for 4 people, the dog, and presents and stuff.

I had a brief job parking cars at the Park and Travel long term airport parking when I first moved my retired ass to Vermont. Having spent most of my working life inside a reinforced concrete windowless building (Enroute Air Traffic Control Center), I figured this was a chance to be outdoors 24/7 and get paid for it!

I confess to the gas guzzling pleasure of driving cars too (at least in 1996!). I got to drive Mercedes diesels, a hot Porsche and all kinds of vehicles I would have otherwise not driven because they are high price tag items. We even had that EV that GM destroyed on behalf of the fossil fuel industry parked there once. I didn't get a chance to park that one, though.

I got to drive a Hummer once. I was surprised that it had that that HUGE separation between the driver and the passenger in the front. I did not find the hummer to be anything but a rather clunky riding truck suitable for midgets with Napoleon complexes. How tall are you, MKing? (just kidding!  ;D)

Back in 1981, when you made your discoveries about how to deal with the status quo, I made a few discoveries of my own. I had a Ford F-150 super cab pickup that got about the same mileage as that hummer you had. :( I was working at Syracuse Tower (not where I could see outside - I was in automation at the time).  I had owned that pick up since 1977 and I was not a happy camper about the mileage, given the price shock in 1979. I would  ride a bike with a tiny roller drive motor on it to work during the summer (freezing my arse off at night because it used to go down to 45 in summertime Syracuse, New York back then. Even at 15 mph, 45 degrees is no fun at all for an 8 mile ride).

Of course in winter ( any part of the year that was not summer in Syracuse - only Buffalo gets more snow in the lower 48 USA than they do!), my fondly labeled "Arab buster" ;D ( I was a Republican back then!) was out of the question.

Just before the strike, Jeff Hall, the PATCO union rep, became all friendly with me even though previously he (along with most people there) had no use for me whatsoever because of my "low class" Hispanic heritage. I smelled a rat but did not say so. I simply told Mr. Hall that I had signed a contract when I hired on specifically pledging not to strike.

The strike came in August. The telephoned threats came right after that. At work, I went back to working airplanes instead of the computers that helped work airplanes. We worked 50 to 60 hours a week.

The union folks decided the spic needed a lesson. My F-150 crapped out. Courtesy Ford charged me about $1100 for a major overhaul. I specifically told the mechanic to give me an oil sample BEFORE the overhaul.

He "forgot". All I got from him was the scored cylinder sleeves. I took those to my insurance agent (vehicle vandalism repair costs were part of my homeowners policy).  He said, I'm sorry sir, company policy does not allow payment for damages if no oil sample is submitted and we get proof from a lab of adulteration. But thank you for insuring with Allstate.  (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9HT4xZyDmh4/TOHhxzA0wLI/AAAAAAAAEUk/oeHDS2cfxWQ/s200/Smiley_Angel_Wings_Halo.jpg)

I'm sure the "bad memory" of the mechanic at courtesy Ford had nothing whatsoever to do with the one thousand plus people march at the Syracuse airport terminal building SUPPORTING THE STRIKERS (that included a lot of employees from Courtesy ford...).

So we both learned a thing or two in 1981.

I'm sure my experience does not surprise you, considering the steps you take to avoid getting the short end of the stick, so to speak.

I bring them to your attention, not so you will say, "No sh it Sherlock, where'd you get the first clue?", but as proof that some people, quixotic though their behavior may appear, refuse to go with the "fu ck your buddy to stay ahead of the game" Social Darwinist program.

Of course, folks like me often end up living in manufactured homes and driving 20 year old gas guzzlers. I simply do not consider the outward accoutrements of  materialism a true measure of success.

Lucid said,
Quote
I think it's healthy to marinate on your mortality from time to time.  It helps keep things in perspective.  I read an article a while back that was written by a hospice nurse.  She said the number one thing that people regret on their death bed is that they didn't live life how they wanted to...they lived it how society wanted them to.  They wished that they had done more of the things that they wanted to do. 

I think there is a lot of wisdom there.  We should all live as if we will die tomorrow, and we should live that way everyday.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,559.msg84109/topicseen.html (http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,559.msg84109/topicseen.html)

I agree. and because I live my life, particularly since 1981, as if I might die tomorrow (or today), I have lived my life the way I think is the best way to live it, regardless of what society wants or expects from me.

When I go to my grave, I will have some regrets, but they are all from my behavior prior to my 1978-1981 epiphany.

You may say, as any materially successful chap might say to my "sermon" about the joys of principled poverty  ;D, that I'm just rationalizing the shaft job I have gotten from society because I didn't have the intestinal fortitude to overcome life's " normal Social Darwinian challenges", as the materially successful chap DID and DOES.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp)

But I might counter that it is the materially successful chap that is doing the rationalizing (see what Lucid said.  8)).
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on October 02, 2015, 02:13:21 am
Quote
Ashvin and K-Dog, the most important issue of our time is the existential threat we face from CO2 pollution. The other empathy deficit disordered activities humans are foolishly, greedily and stupidly pursuing need to be addressed. Those activities produce habitat destruction.

It is a mistake to think that I disagree.  The assault on humanities future is being fought on many fronts and these fronts mutually reinforce each other.  Consider that agriculture as we currently know it is dependent upon massive quantities of fossil fuels.  The use of fossil fuels sends CO2 pollution into the environment in a relentless assault.  Modern agriculture is not sustainable, it will kill us and it is madness to pursue the unsustainable.  It has become a matter of life and death.  With the current world population humanity must change ways or perish.  There is no longer any other way to make it through and stop the CO2 pollution that will trigger our demise but by changing ways.  It is all interrelated and everything man does under the sun determines the outcome of humanities future or the lack of one.  There is no singe greater contributor to CO2 pollution than animal agriculture.

K-Dog,
In addition to my scientific training, which I got AFTER the following life work experiences, I learned along the way to prioritize in life and death situations.

If you don't, you freeze. I'm an experienced pilot. I'm also an experienced air traffic controller. We are trained to not fool around with competing, interrelated issues. We are trained to prioritize one or more emergencies. We temporarily DISCARD the lower priority, even if it means people will die.

I've seen big tough guy students freeze at the controls of an aircraft. I've slammed their hands turned white on the controls and yelled at them to get with the program. It usually worked. But if I, the flight instructor, would not have been there , they were dead meat.

I've seen air traffic control trainees about defecated on their drawers when they lose the picture. I've pulled the plug on a supervisor working 25 plus C141 aircraft around Grenada during Reagan's mini-war there because the guy froze up. And he had more time as an air traffic controller than I did!

So don't think because you are so analytical and reasonable, you are not in danger of IRRATIONALLY making things worse by prioritizing our biosphere degradation factors incorrectly. If you want to give up, then I will tell you straight out that you are making a mistake. If you want to draw some false equivalence with meat and CO2 from fossil fuel burning, then you are like some student I had once who forgot to pull the flaps up before starting a take off roll in a touch and go. The torque from the lighter load caused him to ground loop. He was the brightest student I had, but he thought he knew it all.

He was his own worse enemy BECAUSE the instant it dawned on this smart ass that he was losing control, he panicked.

Are we communicating, K-Dog?

There are a LOT of big talkers here that I know will sh it on their drawers when the enormity of our situation dawns on them. For now, most of them are happily bathing in that river in Egypt. When they can no longer do that, it will be sad to watch. THAT is why I rant and rave here trying to get people to pull their heads out of their comfort zone asses. THEY are putting themselves and their families in DANGER.

The fact that eating meat causes SOME CO2 pollution does not mean that it has an equal priority with our duty to do whatever we can to FORCE every fossil fuel corporation into bankruptcy and every executive pushing that poison into penury and/or prison.

THAT is the priority. We do not have ANY chance if we don't stop that. Did you read what I just posted about the methane in the Arctic? It's fun time up there with methane soon. Do you think going vegan is going to stop that horror? Good luck with that.

I understand priority of duties. People who don't prioritize in an emergency situation contribute to the clusterfork, make things worse by their lack of clarity and cause people who look up to them for advice to give up.

I CHOOSE to remain focused on the MOST important issue. And it torques me off to NO END that I get such little support on that.

Expect your scattergun approach to be labeled back door nihilism. The fossil fuelers will applaud while they gear up to scream for a geo-engineering bit of taxpayer fleecing. And all along we will going merrily along down to hell in a hand basket.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183337.bmp)

What you are advocating is similar to a pilot adjusting the elevator trim tab to keep the proper back pressure on the control yoke while ignoring the engine out procedure. Our ENGINE is the biosphere. Burning fossil fuels is what is stalling OUR participation in it.

If you don't get that, then I'm done trying to convince you of it.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on November 10, 2015, 07:27:38 pm
https://youtu.be/EDHBoOnfaXQ

Tip #5: Have Fun!


Five Tips to get the most out of your technology. Tip #5: Have Fun! - You can, and if you choose to you'll see that it helps make tips 1 through 4 even easier!



https://askleo.com/tip-5-have-fun/#comment-376349


Agelbert COMMENT: Thumbs up for Tip #5, Leo.

Since I programmed a mainframe back in the 1980's (yeah, I'm ancient!), I learned to have fun with technology and accept that continued learning is sine qua non to having that fun. When you stop trying to keep up, it starts to get NOT fun to catch up a few years later.

The machine I programmed back then was a 32bit machine. It "only" took about 15 years or so  for the 32 bit machines to reach the general populace. If Motorola had been the winner of that race instead of Intel, it would have happened a lot sooner. But that is water under the 'sore subject' bridge.

Back then, even the definition of a  "half-word", "word" and double-word was in dispute! A "word" for us was 30 bits with the added 2 bits for parity. IBM had other ideas and they won out.  I bring all this up because I programed in assembler, not high level stuff. When you do a "double Shift left" (i.e. a type of divide in binary), in our assembler language (Sperry-Univac ULTRA -Universal Language Translator Assembler), 60 bits were shifted.

Everybody agreed about what a bit was. We all were familiar with the "bit bucket" where all embarrassing programing efforts were sent. But IBM decided what a 'byte" was and what a "word" was. Some guys had the TRS80 and programmed it so a bit of confusion ensued. The Boolean instructions that accessed a "word" or a "half-word" for buffer packing or math manipulations  needed some type of standard.

This is a quote from my Technology Dictionary published by Radio Shack in 1987:

Word: a collection of bits which the computer recognizes as a fundamental information unit and uses in its operations. Usually defined by the number of bits contained in it, e.g., 8-,16-, or 32-bit word.

Word Length: The number of bits in a computer word.

Byte: A group of adjacent bits treated as a unit. Eight bits is a common byte size.

END OF (ancient) QUOTE

Back then there  was all sorts of hype about the "coming advances" when computers would move from 8 bits to 16 bits. I was not impressed. If they could build a 32 bit data transfer (and 64 bit buffering!) missile tracker and modify it for air traffic control back in the 1980's, I didn't see why they couldn't make 32bit personal computers. Motorola was working on it. IBM and Intel  were taking their time.

Well, we are up to 64 bit handling motherboards with 128 bit buffering video cards (I may be behind here because I am not a gamer). I am certain that much wider data path technology (that DO NOT heat up motherboards like gaming computers do now) is available.

Leo, I have kept up and it has been fun to do so. But since I am, like you, a bit of a geek, I think it is much easier to do. Most people cannot get the "nuisance factor" out of their minds when dealing with technology. So I do appreciate your efforts to make all this stuff more "user friendly" to the user.

Thank you..
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on July 14, 2016, 02:48:59 pm
WATCH: Aircraft Nearly Crashes Into Sea During Landing Aboard USS Eisenhower
July 11, 2016 by Mike Schuler

https://youtu.be/r-EHwYOfY94

Quote
new video released by the U.S. Navy shows the moment an E-2C Hawkeye aircraft nearly plunged into the water from the deck of the USS Eisenhower after an arresting cable snapped during a landing on March 18, 2016.

Details of the incident including video were released Friday by the Virginia-Pilot following a Freedom of Information Act request.

The video, which has since gone viral with more than 1.6 million views, shows the terrifying moment the arresting cable snaps, causing the aircraft to overshoot the runway and fall below the Eisenhower’s landing deck, only to appear moments later as it climbed back into view.

The Virginian-Pilot reports that eight sailors were injured in the incident. The U.S. Navy has blamed the accident on human error and an improperly programmed valve, the paper says.

https://gcaptain.com/watch-aircraft-nearly-crashes-into-sea-during-landing-aboard-uss-eisenhower/

Agelbert NOTE: The E-2C is a pocket sized version of the AWACS (B707 with a saucer on top). Back in the day when I worked airplanes, the E-2C was my favorite Navy aircraft.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)


The Navy plays war games about 200 miles from land in various locations. They are called "Warning Areas" and have a number (e.g. W368").   

When the Warning area goes "hot", we ATCs had to vector civilian aircraft around the area. Inside, there would be fighters, aircraft carriers, submarines and E-2C aircraft fighting a mock war engagement.

When the exercise ended, all the birds that are not carrier based head for the nearest land base. Most of them are fighters with BINGO fuel status (Minimum fuel for a comfortable and safe return to base. Aircraft can fly and fight past bingo fuel in combat situations, but at considerable peril.)

This creates what is known as a "situation" for an Air Traffic Controller.  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/www_MyEmoticons_com__smokelots.gif)

WHY? Because I am faced with about 10 to 20 aircraft in a scattered group exiting the Warning area that all want to get to the Navy land base, most of which are BINGO fuel. I am supposed to give the BINGO fuel aircraft priority in sequencing but his makes no sense if a non-BINGO fighter is much closer to the base.  :P

In addition, it is well known among the fighter jocks that civilian ATC types cannot check their fuel gages to see if that pilot is trying to beat his pals to the base. ;)  ;D

Yes, fighter jocks are a sneaky lot. They are usually rather young, cocky and not very informative. YET, I still had to identify each one. THEN I had to give each and every one a clearance to the base (via radar vectors) and sequence them towards the base in enough order to avoid them getting too close to each other and the non-military aircraft out there.

The problem was complicated by some BINGO fuel fighter(s) calling several miles behind somebody CLOSER to the base who called a couple of minutes later.

So, faced with this huge pain in the arse situation, I would call on the E2-C that tracked everybody in the exercise, and knew where they all were, to ensure that the birds closest to the base called me first. This made my job quite a bit easier.

Alas, due to the nature of fighter jocks, this did not always work.  :(

If the flight conditions are visual, there is no requirement for a military aircraft exiting a Warning Area to call for a clearance. They can switch directly to the base tower/approach control frequency.

A flight of four that didn't want to "waste time" for a clearance by me went straight for the base. One of them mid-aired with another fighter I had just handed off to the base on approach. They were both killed. The Base tower controller went into a panic and closed down the base.

I then had to vector about 7 remaining aircraft with BINGO fuel to a civilian international airport about 20 miles away. It was a bag of worms but it all worked out. I received an at-a-boy from a squadron of F-14s at the base but that didn't bring back the people killed in the mid-air collision due to impatience and lack of respect for civilian ATC authority by fighter jocks.

Every time the Navy would have one of those war games on my watch, it was worry time. Unliike the fighter jocks, the E-2C crew were always professional and willing to help smooth the exit process from the Warning Area to the land base. 

(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/thankyou.gif) E2-C pilots and crew  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/19.gif) everywhere.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on July 21, 2016, 09:23:57 pm
Getting ahead in life depends on three components: hard work, talent and luck. The first two are self-explanatory but the final one of luck is something most people are unwilling to acknowledge and if they do consider it tend to downplay how big a role it plays. To me luck means being born in the right place and at the right time. For example you can work hard as Eddie has done but if you were born in a small African village the chances of being as rich (materially at least) are far slimmer. Similarly if Eddie was born in the US but 500 years in the past he isn't going to be a well off dentist.

Not sure you can call that winning the lotto but where and when you are born, as well as what family you live does play a big part on how your future will turn out. In regards to family they say the best barometer of future success is to take the occupation of your father. Therefore it is safe to say that the things you have no control over can play a big part over your future. Off course the first two factors can contradict the latter especially the bit about family but if you are too far from the right place and/or time hard work/talent will not be enough.

When and where you were born is a HUGE portion of the DL Variable.  Also Race a big portion of the DL Variable.  For instance, lets say a Black Affirmative Action candidate was enrolled in Dental School the same year Eddie was.  Is it likely he would be as successful as Eddie?  Probably not, because first off he probably was not as well educated going in to dental school as Eddie.  Second, he would have faced more difficulty getting a practice up and running, because White people with money for expensive Dentistry would go to a White Dentist rather than a Black one.  Even Black people probably would go to a White dentist before a black one in the 80s.

In terms of the When DL, back in the 70s-80s when Eddie went to school, it was relatively CHEAP.  You could work your way through school accumulating relatively low debt.  Today's Dental student?  Fuhgeddaboudit.  You're in the hole $200K when they issue you the sheepskin and open the Gate for you to practice Dentistry.

In the Where DL sub-variable, Bill Gates has been quoted as saying if he had his skill set but was born in Africa, he never would have got anywhere with it.  He had a geek mind suitable for where he was born and when he was born.

Other DL involved here as well.  Over on TBP there used to be a Doctor A-hole a Proctologist.  LOL.  He died a couple of years ago rather unexpectedly.  He was an ass hole and I sure did not mourn his death.  A-hole however set up his practice in the WRONG location and his practice failed.  This ma have had something to do with the fact he was an ass hole though as well.  lol.

Then there are all the Aerospace Engineers who got screwed when the bottom fell out of that market in the 90s.  Smart guys, hard workers, well educated, but NO Aerospace Jobs!

Then all the hard working Air Traffic Controllers who got s h i t-canned by Rayguns.  A more stressful job does not exist than ATC, ask Agelbert.  It also takes a lot of smarts.  It was THEIR fault they were in the wrong f u c k i n g profession at the wrong time?  They didn't "Endeavor to Persevere" enough?

In my upcoming article, I focus on the problems of recent Law Skule graduates.  You will need to wait a couple of weeks for that publication though.

Meanwhile, Eddie's Horatio Alger arguments have been beaten to death, and he needs to find a new and better argument. :P

RE


Agreed.

I looked into what an African American Dentist is faced with in the USA. It is not, in any way, shape or stretch of the imagination, a level playing field compared to a white privileged Dentist like Eddie.

They have trouble getting a loan for the chair and the stuff. Back around 1970, John Adair, my deceased brother-in-law dentist (part Cherokee but looked white with red hair), took a Coast Guard Commission in exchange for them having paid a lot of his studies. He was able to set up after he did his years of service in private practice in Fort Lauderdale with a $25,000 loan from my old man. John was from a poor family in Kansas. He became a "winner" with help from my old man.

African American dentists go the ROTC route too in order to get their studies paid. BUT, after that, most of them don't have a father-in-law with the money to set up an office AND the PLACES they can set up, when it isn't a poor minority neighborhood, are MUCH FEWER than the options open to someone like John BECAUSE of WHITE PRIVILEGE.

So, African American Dentists have to work for a group (and get paid much less) OR go do prison dentistry until they accumulate enough money to set up a private practice. And YEAH, when they DO get a loan, they invariably pay higher interest AND are allowed a LOWER principal.

ALL THE ABOVE, when NOT PRESENT means MORE PROFITS the white privileged dentist gets for EXACTLY the same amount of hard work, lengthy studies and perseverance.

Everything I just said about Dr. John Adair and Dr. Palm (African American dentist in Burlington with a private practice) is true.

Yes, they are just two people. BUT, the SHAFTING that African American dentists get in the USA, despite their exemplary work ethic and above average intelligence (to make it through white dental schools being black, you HAVE to be VERY intelligent), is WELL DOCUMENTED in EVERY profession in the health care field.

Meritocracy, MY ARSE!

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on August 09, 2016, 01:49:22 am
I just woke up from my mid-morning nap after waking up early this morning to do usual Diner tasks.  I had the most vivid dream in quite some time with a heavy doom theme.

I was visiting cousins at their house for Thanksgiving.  In reality their house was a very plain Levittown style tract house on Long Island, and the one in the dream looked a lot like it from the front.  However, on the back side wasn't their yard, it was right on the ocean with a cliff-like arrangement and two steel pins painted red holding the house to the cliff.

I was watching TV in the living room and made a comment to my cousin that she was the only person I knew who still had CRT tube televisions.  They always had old stuff and were very cheap about buying anything new.  I also had my laptop open on the desk.

There were other relatives in the kitchen getting the food ready, and a few more out on the back porch, when one came in and reported that one of the steel pins holding the house up had rusted through and the house was now only being held up by one pin.  He wasn't sure how long it had been like that though.  Nobody except me got too nervous about this and kept going about the task of getting Thanksgiving dinner ready.  I however decided I needed to at least get my laptop to safety so I unplugged it from the charger and then took it outside in the front of the house going through the garage.  There I noticed that at the front edge of the garage, there was a gap forming with the driveway.  I SCREAMED at all my relatives, "THE HOUSE IS GOING DOWN, GET OUT NOW!"

They began moving toward the front exit, but then the second pin snapped and the house quickly tilted and slid about halfway in the water.  This left a much larger gap and a kind of mini-cliff that the remaining relatives had to climb to get to safety.  There were some little kids who couldn't climb it and relatives went back down to get them.  I didn't go because with my bad arm and bad legs, I didn't think I could help the kids get out and I wouldn't be able to climb back out either.  Then the house broke off and slid completely into the water and all the relatives who had not made it out were lost.  There were a few of us standing on the cliff edge, with one of the guys crying, the owner of the house.

Then another relative asked what we were going to do about Thanksgiving dinner since the Turkey and all the fixin's had been washed out to sea?  I suggested that we could go to a Diner for Thankgiving Dinner.

Then I woke up.

Now, unfortunately unless you are truly amazing at dream interpretation, it's impossible to figure out what the event really is that is coming here or precisely how far off it is either,
but this is the most powerful premonition style dream I have ever had, so something big may be very near on the horizon.

RE


Thank you for sharing. I agree that it is a valid source of information, not to be discarded because of some moronic skeptical comments about food and obviously dead biblical characters.

Since it is about a calamity, it may be a warning in the form of a metaphor about a "house". Dreams often portray our God given premonitions in a symbolic manner. For example, a dream I had many years ago showed a person that was betraying me hugging a dark three dimensional shadow shaped like a human but without any identifying characteristics (torso, legs arms and a head but no individual fingers or viewable eyes, nose mouth, hair, etc.). Within a month I learned the problem was not the shadow, but the person hugging it BECAUSE the dream triggered an investigation by yours truly on the matter.

Years earlier I had a dream about my home filling with a giant wave of water. It wasn't water; it was something else. But the dream made me pay more attention to personal matters. It saved me a lot of grief within a year when the "water" was identified.

Sometimes, dreams are not symbolic, but quite accurate representations of the proximate future. During a particularly stressful time in my Air Traffic Control Career (lots of overtime during strike recovery), I dreamed that my right front tire had a blow out on my way to work. I parked the car and was befuddled when I went to change the tire by the way it was sliced clean across the tire outer side.

When I woke up, the dream was still vivid. I told my wife about this weird dream. My wife was going to use the car so she would ride with me to work that day. The tires looked fine. Well, I ate breakfast and off we went.

About a mile from the Enroute Air Traffic control Center, I swerved to avoid something on the road that a car had just passed directly over without hitting.  It was a brake shoe (a half moon shaped part that some idiot had dropped on the road). The tire hit one end and the other knifed into my tire and caused a blow out. I pulled over and relived my dream in every detail seeing the slice in the tire.

Anybody here that is so stupid and ignorant as to discard dreams because they never got past pseudo scientific Freudian bullshit claims that dreams are simply psycho-somatic reactions to food is not worthy of respect.

Dreams CAN be about food, but to claim they are of no importance beyond that is bullshit.

NO, I don't expect certain well off people or sophistic hairsplitters to believe in the accuracy of my anecdotes. That would force them to question their tidy "modern" view of reality measured exclusively by the size of their bank account.  ;)

But everything I said is true.

RE, I once did not take particularly vivid dreams seriously. Experience taught me that is a mistake. There is quite a bit I will not go into here because there are too many mocking ass holes around that prefer sniping and jeering to taking the subject of dream interpretation seriously.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on August 17, 2016, 10:33:07 pm
(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)
 Since I am a bit of a 'no spiritual gain without pain' fanatic, I can never embrace Epicureanism, but I applaud your modest life style.(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191456.bmp)

Don't worry, my body provides copious amounts of pain, and since I can't take ANY ingested analgesic for more than 2 days without becoming addicted, I get plenty of practice with Stoic endurance, too.

Yikes.  :( I never knew someone could become addicted to non-opiate and/or non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (e.g. aspirin).

Tale care.

Back when I used to work airplanes, about six times a year I used to get such severe migraines at work that I could actually feel the spiking, throbbing pain tracking across the top of my scalp.  :(

You just couldn't get up and leave. You had to finish your shift WITHOUT any aspirin.

So, I was about three hours into heavy duty pain by the time I made it home. I used to call them Excedrin Headache number unlimited  :P. I had to get in a dark room after taking two extra strength Excedrins and press a pillow over my eyes. After about an hour, I would fall asleep and it would be okay. In all my years of working the boards, I had to be driven home on only one occasion.

Now I have psoriasis tracks exactly where the "pain tracks" traveled across my scalp. But I rarely get headaches and have never had a migraine since my time on the boards.

After 19.5 years of working for the FAA (the last third of which was as an automation analyst baby sitting an ATC mainframe and providing programming, troubleshooting and routine patches), I had a nervous breakdown. That is why I was retired with only 26% of my high three instead of 51%. That is why I am poor.

All those years of study, from two years pre-engineering to two years in becoming a commercial pilot and fight instructor to three and have years of concentrated study and OJT hell to become a journeyman radar air traffic controller, a year an a half of accounting and business administration, 3 and half years of pre-med and the equivalent of two years of computer science packed into 4 months of 8 hours days did not save me from economic disaster. :emthdown: 

So, according to certain 'survival of fittest' folks here, I am a failure and therefore deserve what I got for being a 'weak sister'. These 'people' will toss those who stumble, despite a lifetime of hard work and study, in the garbage and laugh at their misery and pain. They are fools. They eschew empathy and mock the downtrodden. I know. I was on the receiving end of their bankrupt world view.

Se la vie.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/db/5a/b4/db5ab483b20064b97660bdec15e70991.jpg)

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on September 11, 2016, 05:48:22 pm
http://nypost.com/2016/09/11/hillary-clinton-has-medical-episode-at-911-ceremony/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UvDmksZxEmI



Interesting. As a veteran of some serious syncope episodes prior to my pacemaker implantation, I wish to inform readers that they way Hillary collapsed is precisely the way you pass out from syncope. It could also be a stroke but strokes usually take minutes, not seconds, to knock you out.

In syncope, your heart just stops in its tracks. About 10 seconds later, you are unconscious. The heart starts up on its own about 15 seconds later. Syncope is NOT a heart attack.

I just wanted to add that, minutes prior to a syncope, you feel fatigued and you get paresthesia (tingling in arms and head). This is because the heart is already stopping and starting for a second or two, not enough to knock you out, but enough to reduce the oxygenation in your extremities (tingling and pin pricks).

Hillary could have started to feel woozy, taken out, and then had the main (15 seconds or more) syncope at the SUV.

UPDATE:
I just found this. This doctor seems to agree with my diagnosis.  8)

Quote

Hillary Clinton almost fainted. I’m a doctor. It’s really o.k. | Dr. Jen Gunter

10 hours ago - Hillary Clinton left early from the 9/11 commemoration in New York as ... With near syncope it is pretty easy to intervene, as Mrs. Clinton's team did, and prevent the faint. ... breath as I am pretty confident that if Mrs. Clinton did have shortness ... with symptoms consistent with vasovagal or orthostatic syncope, ...

https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2016/09/11/hillary-clinton-almost-fainted-im-a-doctor-its-really-o-k/ (https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2016/09/11/hillary-clinton-almost-fainted-im-a-doctor-its-really-o-k/)

Agelbert NOTE:
The vasovagal syncope is the one where the heart stops. The Orthostatic syncope is caused by low blood pressure (hypotension) from rising up quickly from a sitting or squatting position. Also, soldiers at attention in a formation sometimes lock their leg muscles inadvertently causing loss of blood pressure. They keel over and wake up embarrassed. I DOUBT whether Hillary's syncope was orthostatic.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on September 11, 2016, 11:47:35 pm
By the way, AG, welcome back. Your voice has been missed.
By the way, AG, welcome back. Your voice has been missed.


Yes,
Glad your participating AG...


Thank you. I'm feeling better. I hope to be fully normal soon.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on September 22, 2016, 05:31:08 pm

Quote
Agelbert: I was thinking the other day about my deceased dentist brother in law. He did his own lab work to increase his profit on crowns and such. I understand that dentists, like jewelers, could purchase gold when it was technically illegal to purchase it back before 1977 (approximate year).

I know jewelers do not pay the retail price. Do dentists get a similar discount? I know you folks don't use gold and silver as much as you used to, but I don't know whether you stopped using it altogether.

Can you enlighten me?

You are correct that dentists were allowed to legally possess gold after Roosevelt confiscated the gold of American citizens.
At that time, it was necessary to confiscate gold to keep people from using it as a substitute for currency, so that the USD could be devalued. By raising the price of gold from $20.67 to $35, the USD lost 40% of its buying power in one day.

Dental gold is not sold to dentists at a discount. It actually costs more, because it passes through an extra middle man, the dental gold refiners. There are four basic kinds of dental gold, and now (because gold is ultra expensive) many substitutes. Pure gold is too soft for dental work, and the different dental golds differ mainly by hardness. They are alloys, containing mostly gold and silver, and some platinum and/or palladium.

Many so-called "gold" crowns and bridges contain zero gold. That has been one way unscrupulous dentists have bilked patients and insurance companies over the last generation, although now it's getting harder to do, since some insurance companies demand to see lab receipts proving that the gold charge is legitimate.

Gold is still a fine material to use where esthetics aren't important, and when base metals are substituted, some sensitive patients have allergic symptoms. 

Gold will be around for a while in dentistry, but zirconium is rapidly becoming a cheaper, and still very acceptable substitute. And zirconium, although technically a metal, does not look like metal. It looks like porcelain.

As for me, I did stop doing silver fillings some years back and no longer keep silver on hand. I never actually kept silver metal  (or mercury) anyway, since I bought pre-capped amalgam (more convenient and safer for staff).  I still do a fair number of gold crowns, but I don't have an in-house lab.

The amount of gold in a crown might be 3-5 pennyweights (a pennyweight or dwt is 1/20 of a Troy oz.) so a typical gold cost for a crown is roughly $150 to $250. To that add typical lab labor and you get the doctor's lab bill for the crown, $300 to $500. So a crown you pay $1200 for amounts to $700 to $900 for the dentist's time and skill.

A zirconium crown total fee is still $1200, but the lab bill might be $200 total. You can see why zirconium is getting more popular with dentists. Patients do like the esthetics, as the crowns are now quite life-like in appearance.


  (http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg)   

 (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/thankyou.gif)Thank you for filling in all the blanks I had on gold and dentistry. I had no idea they were using zirconium.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on October 23, 2016, 06:35:25 pm
My computer had a massive failure a week ago.   :( I tried to put a new hard disk in but that didn't work. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183337.bmp)

The hard disk MIGHT still be good and just the mother board is fried but I will have to find that out at a future date.

So, the HP Pavillion and about a year's worth of data are kaput.  :P  I did have some backup for tax stuff and legal but lost a bunch of pictures and doc that weren't essential. I also lost the "Favorites" list so I have to build that up slowly again.  :P  I am not real thorough at backing my stuff up. Mea culpa.  :-[ :'( (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183337.bmp)

I have a 3.70 GHZ new Desktop Dell Inspiron i3-6100 cpu and 6GB of memory (expandable to more, of course). It's the cheapest thing around so that's what I got.  ;D

I'm still rebuilding things so it will be a while before I do my thing here again.  8)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on October 25, 2016, 01:49:11 pm
My computer had a massive failure a week ago.   :( I tried to put a new hard disk in but that didn't work.  :emthdown: The hard disk MIGHT still be good and just the mother board is fried but I will have to find that out at a future date.

So, the HP Pavillion and about a year's worth of data are kaput.  :P  I did have some backup for tax stuff and legal but lost a bunch of pictures and doc that weren't essential. I also lost the "Favorites" list so I have to build that up slowly again.  :P  I am not real thorough at backing my stuff up. Mea culpa.  :-[ :'( :emthdown:

I have a 3.70 GHZ new Desktop Dell Inspiron i3-6100 cpu and 6GB of memory (expandable to more, of course). It's the cheapest thing around so that's what I got.  ;D

I'm still rebuilding things so it will be a while before I do my thing here again.  8)

Hi AG, You won't feel compromised with that i3 chip. It's one of the best values out there. 6GB of memory is adequate as well. Computers have gotten way ahead of what most of us use them for, and I have little doubt your new rig will prove more than adequate.

Agreed.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191456.bmp)   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)

My computer had a massive failure a week ago.   :( I tried to put a new hard disk in but that didn't work.  :emthdown: The hard disk MIGHT still be good and just the mother board is fried but I will have to find that out at a future date.

So, the HP Pavillion and about a year's worth of data are kaput.  :P  I did have some backup for tax stuff and legal but lost a bunch of pictures and doc that weren't essential. I also lost the "Favorites" list so I have to build that up slowly again.  :P  I am not real thorough at backing my stuff up. Mea culpa.  :-[ :'( :emthdown:

I have a 3.70 GHZ new Desktop Dell Inspiron i3-6100 cpu and 6GB of memory (expandable to more, of course). It's the cheapest thing around so that's what I got.  ;D

I'm still rebuilding things so it will be a while before I do my thing here again.  8)


Pencil, paper, filebox....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Fz1K9UCpLRo

Yep.   8)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on October 25, 2016, 02:09:16 pm
Hey Hey AG.....
Glad your vertical & among the living.
Find a 4 year old Aquarian child to help with your computer being stuck on stupid.
I think I'm going to buy a new laptop after Christmas. Mine's starting to sloooowwww  waaaayyy down as well.
Gotta' love that Chinese planned obsolescence.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113183729.png)

Sidenote: Where the heck has Surly been. On assignment or just pissed about the shellacking Killary is taking around here ?

I don't know where surly is. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191404.bmp) RE probably knows.  8)

For avoiding computer woes, I recommend a utility I just found that can save you a LOT of trouble. Heat is a computer's worse enemy. If I had used this in my old system, I could have anticipated imminent failure and backed everything up adequately. The utility is called Core Temp and sits in the taskbar (when minimized). It monitors core temps continually.  ;D

I LOVE IT! Check it out.  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/170fs799081.gif)

How to Monitor Your Computer’s CPU Temperature

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/ever-wonder-what-temperature-your-cpu-is-running-at/

CoreTemp DOWNLOAD page

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on January 10, 2017, 02:42:37 pm
(https://faculty.etsu.edu/gardnerr/wright-brothers/1903photo-small.jpg)
Now if I can just stay clear of those cows, this should work out all right.  :D

How Newsworthy Were the Wright Brothers’
First Flights? ???


It may surprise you to learn that news of the first-ever powered airplane flight was not covered by the mainstream press.

It was actually a beekeeper named A.I. Root (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/170fs799081.gif) who first wrote about Orville and Wilbur Wright’s early flights in the pages of his obscure journal Gleanings in Bee Culture. Although Root didn’t witness the first flight at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, in December 1903, he was on hand in September 1904 when the brothers took a plane up and circled around, returning to their starting place.

The Wright brothers had obtained permission to use a local cow pasture known as Huffman Prairie, a few miles outside Dayton, Ohio. The owner did not charge them, but he did ask that the Wrights make sure his livestock were not harmed. Root witnessed several other flights at Huffman Prairie and reported the successes in his beekeeping journal.

The first family of fearless flying:  (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Transports/flying-044.gif)

•The Wrights built a hangar at Huffman Prairie and began experimenting with their second airplane. They started to use a catapult device to assist with takeoff in lighter winds.

•The Wrights added weight to the front of their 1904 Flyer to shift the center of gravity forward and increase stability. They also moved the elevator farther ahead of the wings, which made the plane easier to fly.

•It took 49 flights for the Wrights to equal their Kitty Hawk flight time. The first circular flight lasted 1 minute, 36 seconds and covered 4,080 feet (1.2 km).

http://www.wisegeek.com/how-newsworthy-were-the-wright-brothers-first-flights.htm

Agelbert NOTE: Cows do not take kindly to being buzzed by airplanes. Back in 1966, the flight school I was attending at Opa Locka airport in Florida received numerous complaints from ranchers north of us (what was designated as the "practice area" for student pilots) between North Miami and Ft. Lauderdale (mostly open land at that time). The cows were being buzzed and having abortions. I never buzzed any cows or people. But there are stupid, empathy deficit disordered people in every profession, I guess. The only time you were supposed to be below 600 feet (the lowest altitude for ground reference maneuvers like turns about a point, pylon eights and S turns above a road) was when you were simulating an emergency landing (you got to about a 100 feet and then applied power when the instructor was satisfied that you would survive the forced landing and possibly not damage the aircraft).

I never went anywhere near a cow or a person. I saw cows and people and was perfectly aware of where they were at so I assume some idiots thought is was "fun" to buzz them. So it goes. There are way too many Homo SAPS among Homo Sapiens. (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_2955.gif)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on March 21, 2017, 01:06:56 pm
I like this Texan.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191456.bmp)

https://youtu.be/y7y0uQWdumM

I was surprised I don't know this guy. I bet money I know somebody who knows him. LOL. Thank you!

You are welcome, Eddie. Check that dude out, if you can. He is having some marital problems but he seems like a straight shooter. Who knows, he may become a bona-fide Doomstead Diner. He has a following on U-tube of about 3,500 subscribers. I think he could use some help from a fellow Texan, even if it's just moral support.

RE, you may want to give him a holler too.  ;)

The problem with multi-hull boats is they are not self-righting.  So if you get rolled over or pitch poled, you are seriously **** and SOL.  If the trimaran folds, you can right it if the seas calm, but you cannot right a flipped cat in any way. Trimarans have the serious problem of a lack of room in the main cabin, not a great living space in general.

I experienced two flying jibes.  One not too bad on a small daysailer boat, it only pulled out a couple of cleats.  The other one worse, the boom got ripped off the mast on a 32 footer.  Very ugly, and expensive repairs for dad the pigman.

RE

I hear ya, RE, but I want to tell you about something I saw that you will find hard to believe. I certainly found it hard to believe. I was at the beach watching a dude sailing a Hobie cat. Of course that's a bit small for a catamaran but it IS a catamaran. Well, it FLIPPED! And the dude, WAY out over 200 yards away from the beach, stood on a pontoon and UNFLIPPED IT!.  :o  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png) (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191456.bmp) The mast came out of the water. After some scurrying around, he was sailing again. That guy knew his stuff!

(https://www.westcoastsailing.net/media/wysiwyg/Landing-Pages/Category-pages/Hobie-landing-page/Hobie_14.jpg)
A Hobie Cat in action

Of course you can't do that with a full sized catamaran but I like em' anyway!  ;D

 
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on March 21, 2017, 01:43:20 pm
You are welcome, Eddie. Check that dude out, if you can. He is having some marital problems but he seems like a straight shooter. Who knows, he may become a bona-fide Doomstead Diner. He has a following on U-tube of about 3,500 subscribers. I think he could use some help from a fellow Texan, even if it's just moral support.

I dropped a note on his utoob page and he invited me to meet him sometime soon. I think he's going to be out-of-town for a few days, though.  I'll let you know how it goes.


Great!  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/thankyou.gif) I learned from watching his screeds that he used to be a Real Estate salesman and made some big bucks for a while until the crash. It appears he has struggled for about a decade. I watched the way he deals with and handles his dog. That alone told me he is a good, caring man. He cusses up a storm but considering the present situation, I cannot blame him.  8)

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 23, 2017, 09:25:44 pm
Weren't the Krishnas those folks that hung around airports and sold pencils in guru outfits or something? (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6656.gif) As an air taxi pilot I had the experience of running in to them often. I do admit they were always polite and friendly.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)  I kind of felt sorry for them because they always looked like they hadn't had enough to eat.   :(

Given the time period you were doing that job, yes those were likely Hare Krishnas.

RE


Yeah, they must have been the ones.  8) I think they would have one shoulder bared in those outfits. That worked okay in the tropics...  ;)

I was kind of hungry in the days of being an air taxi rat myself. I had a mail run to two small islands for a while (Vieques and Culebra). I tried to make ends meet by importing goat cheese from Culebra but I couldn't get connected with the supermarket personnel that purchased quantities of food items.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113183729.png) So, I ended up eating the samples I bought. That was GREAT cheese!  ;D

When I flew from Vieques to Culebra I had to traverse a Navy fun and games blow stuff up area of the ocean. I got to see depth charges shot and large guns firing in real time. They were polluting the crap out of the Caribbean especially after the bomb, you know. They towed vessels that had been exposed to the nuke tests in the Pacific ALL THE WAY to Vieques and sank them off shore. Vieques has one of the highest cancer rates in the WORLD. Of course I'm sure the U.S. Navy had nuttin' to do wid dat....


Sorry for the ramblin' I'm getting old.
(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)


Great story AG.

Harry's fresh chum for the shark tank. Since JeRM slithered back under his rock,
I've adopted Harry as my new squeak toy....  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)


Sorry for the ramblin' I'm getting old. (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)

Don't sweat ramblin' on about your life history.  I love hearing anecdotes about people's lives.

I'm hitting the big 6-OH this year, and I wrote an autobiography to celebrate this momentous occassion.  ::) :icon_sunny:  lol.  It's so **** long even by my standards I'm going to spread out the publication in parts over the next few months.  Part 1 will go up in May.

RE

 (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/computer3.gif)


Great story AG.

Harry's fresh chum for the shark tank. Since JeRM slithered back under his rock,
I've adopted Harry as my new squeak toy....  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)


lol :D

I needed a good laugh...thanks Azozeo  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)


 (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif)

WAR STORY TIME!  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)

There I was, flying my Piper Navajo in the year of our Lord 1970 through a hellacious thunder storm. I had a full load of adventurous bidness people (eight  ;D), I was young and I COULD FLY!   (http://www.jrcompton.com/photos/The_Birds/J/Feb-12/Forsters_Tern_Looking_Down-DSC_5644.jpg)

 
Well, at least I thought so.  8)

Where were we? Right, the San Juan to Ponce run in the afternoon when the thunderheads on the south of Puerto Rico, which is usually about as wet as Arizona, were built up to really ugly dimensions. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-310714182509.png)

Being a fearless flyer (most of the time), I was up to the task of delivering my paying passengers smoothly to the Ponce airport, of course. This was a bit challenging because the turbulence was a pain in the arse. Aircraft have seat belts for completely different reasons than cars, ya know.

The Captain's seat in the Navajoe (left seat in the cockpit) positions you so that you can reach the throttle quadrant with three pairs of handles on it. The red ones are the mixture control of avgas (130 octane green color) and oxygen. That Navajo had superchargers on it so you had to be careful with the mixture control or you would get power boosts that would unnerve the passengers. They don't like a twin engine aircraft sashaying this way and that, even for a few seconds. And it looks bad too. The whole idea of flying commercially is to convince those fine folks on board that you are a sort of limo in the sky so they will come back for another ride. Avoiding wiggles and bumps is a big deal.  :laugh:

(http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/3/3/8/0760833-v40-10.jpg)

The other pairs of handles on the throttle quadrant are for the propeller angle (blue color) and for the throttles( black color) for each 350 HP Lycoming gas hog. The blue ones are called pitch control handles. These are basically a variable gearshift for airplanes. They can also be used to "feather"  the prop if the engine quits to avoid drag. (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6961.gif)  I know. You are bored to tears so let's get on with the thunder bumper story. (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6869.gif)

I was at 5,000 feet on instruments (in the soup) heading southwest about 15 miles from the airport at around 220 knots. I was cleared for the "circling" VOR approach to runway 11. All that techno-babble means that I had to shoot a non-precision approach because Ponce was a two-by-nothing airport that didn't merit an instrument landing system (ILS - tells you how high you are until about 200 feet above the runway a mile or so away from the threshold).

A VOR is a Very High Frequency Omni-range device/building that looks like a 100 ft diameter sombrero. It puts out 360 radials that you can tune into with your VOR gizmo on the panel and tell if you are on the right or left side of the radial.

In a VOR approach, you first intercept the approach radial and follow it. If it's a "circling" approach, that means you are NOT lined up with the runway when you reach the minimum approach altitude at a specific time for the velocity you are traveling at.

If you see the runway, you circle (at Ponce I had to circle about 210 degrees!) to line up with the runway.

IF you do NOT break out of the soup or cannot see the runway at minimum altitude (it was about 1,500 above the runway here) and clocked time, you had to shoot a "Missed Approach" and climb back up to 6,000 feet and Hold (do 4 minute race track patters of one minute legs) at the PSE VOR on a specific radial and await another  approach clearance (or proceed to your alternate airport).

In this approach, after spotting the runway, I would be heading about 260 (west-south-westward) and have to spot the airport, fly south of, and then parallel to, the runway heading 290.

As soon as I was abeam the runway 11 threshold (it's runway 29 in the other direction but the wind is always coming from the east there so I couldn't just land on 29), I would circle to the right to 110 degrees (East-south-eastward) and land. Simple, RIGHT?  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)

I was traveling on a radial from another VOR station.

I had a second VOR gizmo (you have two on decent aircraft, sniff) set to the PSE (Ponce) VOR radial I wanted to intercept. So, as the needle began to center, I passed a fix from which I could start the approach.

I began a descent using a timed rate of descent along the approach radial.

You practice all this stuff a lot to get an instrument rating. BUT, when you are flying routinely, you RARELY need to shoot approaches on instruments in a DRY place like Ponce.

BUT, some days (it's mostly during the days, not nights) it just cain't be helped. THIS was one of those days.   (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/www_MyEmoticons_com__smokelots.gif)

It was quite bumpy. as I went through 4,000 feet. I tightened my seat belt to make sure I would have no difficulty reaching the props and throttle while being bounced around.

No smoking sign: ON (in air taxis you always require the passengers to have their seat belts on).
Boost pumps: ON
Fuel: ON MAIN TANKS
Cowl flaps: OPEN
Flaps: 20 degrees
Gear: DOWN with three green lights (locked)
Mixture:  FULL RICH (handles full forward)
Prop Pitch control: FLAT PITCH (handles full forward)
Throttle: AS NEEDED to keep 500 feet per minute rate of descent (unlike a car, the throttle is used to control descent rate in an approach - you control velocity with the elevators).

CROSS CHECK: constant rescan of instruments and CLOCK to see how much time you have left to missed approach point. You want to make sure you reach the minimum altitude just before the time expires so you have the best chance of being low enough and near enough to spot the runway.

I checked my speed and the clock. More bumps and flashes of lightning.  :P The tower advises a heavy rain storm is in progress over the field with a visibility of less than a mile. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp) That is VERY bad news for me because non-precision approaches CANNOT be executed completely when the visibility is less than a mile...
I say "roger" and prepare myself to have to do a Missed Approach.  :P

The tower informs me that the visibility SOUTH of the airport is above a mile and the storm is mostly on and north of the airport. 

I say "roger" and start to think fast. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp)  I know this area like the back of my hand (famous last words  ;D) so there is NO WAY I'm gonna let that dumb rain storm GIT me. I KNOW all the high terrain is north of airport and I KNOW the land is flat as a pancake and near sea level SOUTH of the airport for the few miles to ocean.

SO, I figure I can cheat a little.  ;)

Descending through 3,000 feet,  I deliberately deviate about 8 degrees south of the approach radial. The soup continues as thick as ever and the lightning is more frequent, instead of less. I call the tower for a visibility update. They say the storm appears stationary with no sign of decreasing intensity except to the south.

I say, "roger" while my hand on the yoke is getting a bit on the sweaty side. I deviate another 5 degrees or so left of the approach radial.

I pass 2,000 feet and still nuttin'. I have 500 feet more I can legally descend and about 30 seconds left.

I keep descending past 1,500 ft (I was STILL in the soup at 1,500 ft) to 1,000 feet and begin to break out of the soup, but I can't see the runway.

The tower calls and reports the visibility is just above a mile! (http://cliparts.co/cliparts/Big/Egq/BigEgqBMT.png)

I say, "Roger, please advise if you go below Special VFR (visual flight rules). Less than 3 miles but greater than one mile are known as "special" VFR rules that IFR (instrument flight rules) rated pilots like me CAN use to get around IFR rules and land in visual conditions legally.".  ;)

I reach the end of my time at 1,000 feet. I'm not in the soup (barely) but I can't see the airport (I am planning to head straight south over the ocean to stay away from the soup and regroup - I have no desire to go up in to that crapola at moment).

He says, " Roger, report the runway in sight for visual approach to runway 11. Wind is 090 at 15 gusting to 25 knots. Altimeter 2998 (approximation - that was long arse time ago  8)).

As he says that I realize the tailwind pushed me further towards the airport than I thought with my timed approach. A look hard towards that black ugly soup to the right and THERE is the runway!

Ponce tower, San Juan Air 533 has the runway in sight.

PSE TWR: Roger, San Juan Air 533 is cleared for a visual approach to runway 11. Visibility continues to be above one mile (I think he was making that up but what the hell.  :laugh: I knew he just trying to help. I couldn't see the tower cab!  :o)

AND NOW is when the FUN began.   (http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif)

I fly WELL (nearly over the ocean) south and parallel to the airport at about 800 feet. I then fly over the city and carefully pick my land marks.

You see, when it's raining real hard, you can NOT see forward, but you can see straight down.  This is a rather dangerous thing to do, but if you think your a hotshot pilot, you might be dumb enough to try it.  ;D

I knew there is this hill about 500 feet high on the approach path to runway 11 within a mile or so of the runway. I knew that there was a hospital on that hill. I planned to have that just to my left. After passing that hill, there are two rivers, then an expressway next to the threshold. On the left of the runway was located the Serralles Rum plant that made Don Q rum. It had some large stacks on it that I didn't want to run into that also served as good land marks.

So, as the hill got abeam of my position going west, I circled to the right, maintaining the fiction that I still had the runway in sight (I no longer did, but don't tell nobody  ;D). I could see the ground and somewhat forward.

As I turned, over the city, towards the airport, I lost forward visibility as the rain grew heavy. I applied full flaps for the landing and increased the power to keep at approach speed (about 130 knots)). I had to keep my eyes glued to the ground and didn't want the aircraft to get away from me.

In passing, I must tell you that there was a passenger in the co-pilot's seat. The owner of the air taxi normally allowed that to make more money.      (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp) You only needed (FAA regs) a co-pilot when you had to BEGIN the flight in IFR conditions (which rarely happened). I got fired for organizing a union to force that bastard to put co-pilots on all flights, but that's another story for another time.  8)

Back to the high pucker factor approach, the tower is calling the wind and there is Prinair 4 engine De Haviland Heron ready for take off but being held at the apron due to my imminent arrival.

The tower clears me to land. I say, "roger".

I'm watching the city go by and the terrain rapidly goes up. THERE's the hospital on the hill!

I slightly bank left, going through 300 feet and see the two rivers, now 100 feet.

WHERE is the expressway? It's really coming down HARD!

I start to apply more power to stop the descent while looking down desperately (although my outward appearance was the calm cool Captain Kirk of the Star Ship Enterprise LOL!).

THERE I see the Heron 4 engine job right underneath me! I pitch the nose down slightly. I still can't see forward at all. It's like a waterfall going UP my windshield.

I'm slightly right of course. I find the runway centerline and see the left runway lights (they were on despite it being during the day because of the low visibility) and just try to keep them the same distance from the aircraft wing. I'm at about 50 feet. I throttle back all the way.

Rather than bank and lose the visibility I have to stay straight along the centerline, I use the rudder pedals to move the nose left or right.

I touch down. The Prinair crew that watched the whole thing says, "BRAVO!" on the radio.  ;D

I still can't see forward. I apply foot breaks while watching the runway lights to stay straight.

The aircraft stops. It's still raining cats and dogs out there. The tower orders Prinair to taxi into position and hold and orders me to taxi to the ramp with instructions to NOT open the door because the ramp crew has personnel with an umbrella coming  :D (normally the pilot opens that door).

I say "roger" and push hard right rudder to do a circling left turn on the runway (there was no taxiway at the 29 end of the runway).

As I did that followed by hard left rudder and differential engine power to help the turn, the passenger blurted out that he couldn't figure out how I did that because he couldn't see a thing. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191404.bmp) I calmly explained that you could see down and use land marks in my best Captain Kirk voice (while I hoped the passenger wasn't noticing that wiggle that had developed in my two knees right after the aircraft finally stopped).

When I finally reached the terminal, I smoked the most enjoyable cigarette I have ever smoked in my LIFE!  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/acigar.gif)

No, I never had to do that again. When I bragged about it to my Airline pilot brother, he chewed my arse for 20 minutes reminding me of all the ways I could have killed myself and a bunch of other people.  :-[
So, I made  sure I didn't repeat the risky maneuver.

But, to this day, I'm HAPPY that I got away with it! (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif)

(http://lias.cis.rit.edu/sites/default/files/images/wasp-navajo_0.preview.jpg)
Piper Navajoe
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 23, 2017, 09:56:58 pm
FABULOUS Anecdote AG!!!!!  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png)
RE


 (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/thankyou.gif) Sir. I'm glad it helped you have a better day.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png)

 I can't wait until Surly finds out I once organized a UNION! Hopefully, he will relieve me of my "aparatchik" status for having worked for the feds (just kidding surly!  But now you know I 've always been a socialist at heart.  ;D). 
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 24, 2017, 06:02:03 pm
FABULOUS Anecdote AG!!!!!  :icon_sunny:

I invite all Diners to post an Anecdote from their lives for publication in a Compilation Blog of Diner Autobiographical Tales!

RE

I can't wait until Surly finds out I once organized a UNION! Hopefully, he will relieve me of my "aparatchik" status for having worked for the feds (just kidding surly!  But now you know I 've always been a socialist at heart.  ;D).

Proud of you, AG. What a tale!

Have never doubted your heart is in the right place
.

 (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/thankyou.gif)  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png)

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 24, 2017, 06:18:47 pm
In 1971 I was drafted into the armed service. The Viet Nam war was in high gear. I was living in the Bay Area, Ca. and there was a lot of protests against the war. I had read the "The Pentagon Papers", and had met some guys who had returned from the war. I had been on my own since about the age of 14, my Mother died a year earlier and Father became an alcoholic. So I made the decision to become a Conscientious Objector. You have to serve 2 years in the States doing community service work, and can only be paid $100 a month. C.O.'s do not get any Military help after completion of the 2 years.

  My first year I joined a Conservation Corp. and went to a camp around Mt. Lassen. We helped the US Forest service build roads, clear messed up terrain, and fought forest fires ( mainly mop up on the perimeters). I once got doused by fire retardant dropped by a plane, nice. :)

I was a "born again" Christian at this time. I found out about a Church of Christ mission in the Ghettos of NYC. I was able to do my second year at this organization, called "Shiloh". We lived in East NY and Brownsville from late September through April, and then brought a ton of kids to a camp in New Jersey.

  We lived in a tenement apartment with rats, cockroaches, and urine in all the halls. One of the leaders almost lost his eye because he got slugged in a pick up basketball game on the street park. One staff girl was rapped. There were two robbery's in our apartments.

  While playing vollyball with the staff at the local gym, I tore my right knee cartilage. I didn't know that yet though. The first thing I did was go to local doctor. On the way a big older street bum walked up beside me and started walking with me. He suddenly said "I have a .45 pointed right at you." ( buldge in his coat) We keep walking then he say "What are you doing here?" I said I worked at Shiloh . He says "where do you live?" I said over on Wilson in an apartment just a few blocks away." We keep walking, he says "Well, why didn't you tell me so!" Ok, I just did. Then he slowed down and stopped and turned around.
 
  The doctor was an old Jewish fellow. He said I just sprained it real bad so he put a cast on my knee to keep it immobile. Well it didn't and when the cartilage popped out on my knee bone it felt like being stabbed with a knife. I had the top bunk and jumped up to get some rest and my knee went out. This time I couldn't strech my leg out to pop the cartilage back in place. So I am in the top bunk being stabbed in the knee. I crawled down and to the kitchen , got a hammer and a butter knife, and cut the cast off to stretch my leg. It worked. I eventually had knee surgery in "The Hospital for Special Surgery" where Joe Namath had his knees repaired. I also roomed with a concert violinist. I was playing my guitar one day and he says "that sounded really good." That is when I found out about his mastery of the violin/music. I was really embarrassed because I just could play rock, rhythm and blues, and some jazz. But he insisted that I played really well. That was cool.

  Another time I was going through the neighborhoods knocking on doors to see if anyone had children they wanted to send to camp. The black guys crossed the street and started following me and getting closer. I tried to stay cool, and then one of them mentioned Shiloh. That was enough to back them off. We did a lot for the neighborhood, and was mostly welcome there.

  Two years later my supervisor and friend was shot and killed while walking a kid to his apartment.

  Speaking of these anecdotes from the oil consumption days, we got put on the even/odd license plate gas fill up. On our day we had to wait in a line of about 50 cars at time.

ANOTHER FABULOUS ANECDOTE!

This is shaping up well already!

RE

  (http://cliparts.co/cliparts/Big/Egq/BigEgqBMT.png)

Knarf, my hat is off to you for making this sad world a better place. I am indebted to you for your sacrifices on behalf of the downtrodden. The fact that, though you were forced to be a man at 14, you went out of your way to help others, is an example to all of us of what we should be like.
(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160614020239.gif)

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-170614152530.gif) (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-210614220933.gif)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 24, 2017, 06:46:40 pm
(http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0502.gif) Agelbert's Aerobatic Adventure - In A NON-Aerobatic Aircraft :o  :P   (http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0503.gif)

Once upon a time, I was young and a newly licensed Private Pilot. I had racked up about 53 hours of flying time, passed my 4 hour written test and my one hour flight test so I figured I had most of this flying stuff all figured out. I was now starting my commercail pilot training which required a total of 160 hours. A lot of this time was solo flying practicing advanced maneuvers such as chandelles, lazy eights, pivotal altitude hold while circling a ground reference point, several kinds of stalls, engine out procedures, emergency landing procedures and some extended cross country flights.

But most of that was in the future. I had already flown my mother as my mandatory first passenger now that I was a bona fide licensed pilot and could legally carry passengers (without charging for it, of course).

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213205316.jpeg)
I modified the last part of the tail number on the cherokee 140 above. It's not the one I flew but is identical in appearance and paint job.

This bright sunny day I boarded Zero Nine Whisky (N--09W tail number) Cherokee 140 trainer aircraft to accumulate some flying time towards my minimum required for a commercial pilot license. Zero Nine Whiskey was my favorite of the aircraft. It had a pretty paint job and was the plane I had soloed in. It was an old friend to me by now. I didn't have any particular plan except to go out over the everglades practice area and repeat some of the maneuvers I already knew. 

Of course, being young, curious, over confident and foolish, I wanted to expand my knowledge of how the aircraft responded in somewhat, shall we say, higher pitch attitudes than the every day dull training fare.

If you have ever heard the expression, "pushing the envelope", let me tell you that it is originally and aviatior's expression stolen from us by you ground pounders to make your dull lives seem more exciting!

Yes, dear readers, Agelbert was fixin' to push the envelope.

The flight "envelope" is the airspeed range and pitch attitude (angle above or below the horizon) as well as bank angle range of the wings that the aircraft is designed to fly at. If you leave the envelope when you are in the air, you are entering the danger zone. WHY? Because the aircraft can suffer catastrophic structural damage, engine, failure or a combination thereof. If this happpens near the ground, you are done. If it happens 4 to 5 thousand feet up, you MIGHT be able to recover and live through it. You have a little more time but your survival usually depends more on luck than skill.

Recently licensed Private Pilots are not too long on skill...

I taxied out, took off and flew northwest about 10 miles to the practice area. This area over the Florida Everglades was (in 1966) in the middle of nowhere. There were a few roads near some farms that had boundaries by the glades but otherwise it was all swamp and you were alligator food if you went down there.

(http://www.desmoinesflyingclub.com/planeimages/c140a2aturn.jpg)
Cherokee in cruise flight at about 115 mph over Ohio, not the Everglades.

On the plus side for a designated practice area, it was flat, far away from people or cows (our flight school had been told to NOT allow the student pilots to practice low approaches to emergency landings near cows because it caused abortions), and arrival and departure aircraft traffic to Opa Locka or Miami International Airports. Besides, it was within radio range of several ATC towers so if you had an emergency, you could set 121.5 on your radio and call for help before you made a forced landing even if you were at a low altitude.

Out over the practice area at 2,000 feet, I practiced a few engine out procedures and checked the area for potential landing sites that I could reach with the power off. It didn't look all that great but I would pick a spot and pretend I had to put it down right there. At about 300 feet I would apply full power and climb away looking down at the spot to see what sort of a mess I would have made if I had actually landed there.

I then decided to try something new. I knew I might have some "difficulties" so I climbed to 5,000 feet (the recommended altitude for stall and spin practice). I may write about an exciting and humorous adventure with spins someday but that was still in the future for me then. For this adventure, I must explain to you what a "stall" is before I explain my imaginative variation of it.

An aircraft flies because a low pressure area forms over the upper surface of the wing in direct proportion to the velocity of said wing and the angle of the wing to the air movement (relative wind). The point is that the wings are sucked up and the aircraft flies. 

Straight and level flight (arrow) ----> produces enough lift to not go up or down. When you pull back on the control point the aircraft nose higher, you are increasing the pitch attitude. A Cherokee 140 normally flies at a pitch attitude of a few degrees (positive pitch).

A stall has nothing to do with the engine. A stall is what happens when the low pressure area over the wing surface gets disturbed (burble point) by too high a pitch attitude and the wings no longer produce lift. The maneuver is performed by gradually increasing the pitch attitude with a certain designated power on or power off condition (or something in between) until the nose shakes a little and noses down as the wings hit the burble point.

Stall recovery is performed by establishing a negative pitch (nose below normal glide pitch) to pick up flying speed while applying full power simultaneously. Panicky student pilots have a tendency to point the nose down steeply and upset their flight instructors. After some practice, students learn that the secret of stall recovery is just to put that nose down to a few degrees below glide pitch and, of course, keep the plane from banking with the rudder so you don't get into an inadvertent stall-spin.

The most challenging stall recovery is a power on stall because the nose is pitched about 40 degrees up (much higher than for a power off stall) and the burble point stall break is snappy. It's also harder to keep the plane straight to avoit a spin entry due to one wing stalling before the other.

Well, I knew all that. I had that down! Let us see, I said to myself, what happens when we REALLY pick up the nose with full power?   (http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0502.gif)


I pushed the throttle all the way and pulled the nose as far back as I could about 60 degrees). The effect was a much more violent stall (imagine a bucking bronco) break and the plane trying to spin this way and that. But I recovered within a few hundred feet of altitude loss which was well within limits for a power on stall.

I thought about that for a while. I wanted a 90 degree pitch up nose position (straight up!) but, even with full power, I couldn't get there before the plane stalled. Bummer.
So, I applied full power again and lowered the nose to pick up maneuvering speed (129 mph designated aircraft speed where structural damage could not occur from control movements). ZOOM!

At 129 mph I gradually lifted the nose all the way to 90 degrees! Yippee! There I was, going straight up like a fighter pilot!

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213210450.png)

I then waited for the stall break and the nose to pitch forward. And I waited. And I waited. The airspeed went down past 60, which was no flaps stalling speed, and kept going down. Fifty, forty, THIRTY (WTF!), TWENTY!!! (I pulled the power off and tried to nose the aircraft over - no response - I was going too slow to ahve ANY EFFECT on the fight controls - I was basically a rock tossed in the air at this point approaching the peak of a ballistic trajectory), TEN, ZERO!

Now it gets really good. The cherokee 140 is a utility trainer aircraft. That means it is capable of withstanding 4.4  G forces plus and 2.2 G minus. Aerobatic aircraft can handle 6.6 both ways with out structural issues. I knew this. I knew I was not in a Citabria or Stearman that could do whip stalls and tail slides and hammer head stalls at air shows just for fun. Cherokees have a stabilator (instead of an elevator) on the tail that is quite easy to break. If that breaks, you are dead, period.

You DO NOT want to stress the stabilator, EVER.

I went weightless. My pilot briefcase began floating in the air next to me. The wind noise was picking up rapidly and the airspeed still read ZERO!

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213210610.png)

Panic time! I decided to release the controls because ANYTHING I did would translate BACKWARDS because the aircraft was "flying" backwards. I did NOT want to bust that stabilator. I wanted to get that nose DOWN somehow. As a kid I had thown gliders in the air and watched them tail slide and whip stall to a nose down pitch and recover. I was counting on that but my confidence level was measurable in fractions of an inch at the moment.

Hanging by my seatbelt, I experienced the most violent forward whip stall forward you can imagine. That is probably what save my life. Had the stabilator caused a BACKWARD whip stall, it would probably have broken off. Without the ability to control the pitch attitude, even with engine power, a small aircraft will nose hard into the ground destroying the airframe and killing the pilot.

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213215342.png)

I watched the blue sky instantly change to brown everglades. It was weird. The nose did not just go from straight up to straight down; it went from straight up to a pendulum movement. I still hadn't touched the controls. The airspeed had, of course, been increasing all along but it didn't show because aircraft measure airspeed with a pitot tube that faces the relative wind. Planes don't generally fly backwards. LOL!

The moment the plane whipped over to the glades facing pendulous rocking movement, the airspeed went from zero to ABOVE VNE (Never Exceed Velocity - about 160). The airspeed indicator was PEGGED!

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213224524.png)

That was another fright. I realized the flip had occurred above maneuvering speed and was sweating the possibility I had lost my stabilator.

I  reached for the controls and, ever so gradually, applied back pressure to get out of the dive without tearing the wings off. Also, if I pull back too hard and too quick, that was another chance to over stress the stabilator (if I still had one) that I didn't want to risk.

It worked. I hadn't lost my stabilator! Gravity returned and I got the airspeed back to 115 mph normal cruise. I had lost about 3,500 feet. I applied power.

Nothing. Engine failure. Argh.

I turned on the electric fuel pump (this aircraft has a manual fuel pump but uses the electric fuel pump to aid starting and engine restart in the air) and set 121.5 emergency frequency on my radio and looked for a place to put Zero Nine Whiskey down.

At 800 feet the best place looked like a dirt embankment in the Everglades. I began a final approach and had the mike in my hand to begin transmitting mayday when the engine sputtered on. Believe it or not, my greatest relief at the moment was not having to embarrass myself by radioing an emergency.

Such is the foolish pride of the young.

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213210345.png)

I hooked the mike back on to the panel and changed to tower frequency, radioed that I was inbound about 15 miles northwest and brought her home (without turning the electric fuel pump off until I was safely on the runway).

I taxied to the grass parking area at the fight school and shut own the aircraft.

Then I noticed something that needed to be taken care of. The cowling above the panel was full of dirt! The whip stall had been so violent that every speck of dirt on the floor had been thrown up and then forward and down onto the cowling as I applied gradual back pressure to pull the aircraft out of the dive. The floor looked like someone had done a great vacuuming job on it. LOL!

I called a line boy and said there was a lot of dirt on the cowling that should be cleaned up. He looked at it  and asked, How did that get there?". I said, "I don't know." and quickly walked into the office to sign out...".

NOTE: Zero Nine Whisky was NOT damaged. I flew over 50 hours in that aircraft subsequently along with hundreds of hours by other pilots and flight instructors.

I pre-flighted VERY closely the aircraft a day later and, had I seen the least bit of evidence of stabilator stress, would have reported it.

I know, I should have reported it anyway but I was foolishly and pridefully afraid to besmirch my pilot record because it would reduce my chances of getting hired by the airlines.


All I can say is the Piper Cherokee 140 is an excellent trainer aircraft.

So that is how a foolish young man happened to cheat death in 1966.


If you liked this true story by Agelbert, be nice and register. 

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-181113150826.png)
Agelbert giving his first lecture on Renewable Energy.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)

Have a pleasant day.   ;D

Renewable Revolution (http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/465/465823jzy0y15obs.gif)
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/index.php)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 26, 2017, 07:52:06 pm
Very well put AG.

Don't get me wrong, sign me up for one of these 4th Reichstag's windup plastic run-abouts, there cool as ****.

I'm seasoned, AG's seasoned. We both possess a ticket to ride. I'm not current at this point in time. 30 days of
review in reg's, weather, sim time, left seat with an instructor & whaa-la I'm a Legal Eagle again. Oh, yeah & the medical.  :icon_mrgreen:

SOOOOOO, it's complicated & for "1st timers" that's a BIG hurdle.
The point is, the ego is being tickled & the brain is in the caboose. Eye candy with big consequences.
If you'll notice in the vid, no one was aboard. That was a big boy toy drone test flight. These cats haven't even
received GOOBERmint approval to have a test pilot flight yet.

I'll take a Cherokee 6, an attractive female hostage, leave Lauderdale airspace & head to little Guana Cay for lunch.
 

 (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif)

So, you've flown a six? I put quite a few hours into those birds way back when. Here's a short war story from my air taxi rat days:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Piper_PA-32_Cherokee_Six.jpg/220px-Piper_PA-32_Cherokee_Six.jpg)
Piper Cherokee Six

It was the San Juan to Vieques flight in a 260 hp Cherokee six sometime in 1969. The folks that lived in Vieques would fly to San Juan and buy stuff to take back to their island (half of it - the other half was routinely being blown to smithereens as a bomb fun and games place for the Navy and Marines - it looked like the moon  :P).

Vieques islanders were  sort of country bumpkins to the average cosmopolitan San Juan dweller. Country folks are very practical and aren't real particular about appearances.  ;D On this particular flight I had some people carrying sacks of potatoes (I eyed these carefully when I did my weight and balance  ;)) and a lady that had some live and healthy (and noisy) chickens. I can't imagine why, but country folks also smell a bit ripe on a hot day in the tropics... Perhaps it's fear of flying that makes them perspire a bit more than normal, but I was always glad for my tiny flip down pilot seat window...  :D

Well we, took off and encountered a lot of wind noise. (http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0502.gif) I called the tower at the international airport 5 miles east of my air taxi base (Isla Grande airport) and asked for a touch and go, which they approved. It seems the latch over the door had not sealed the door properly.  I had a friend riding in the right seat (he wasn't a pilot) and I asked him to see if he could force the door open a bit and then try to pull it closed again (we are in flight approaching the international airport at this time). He did that (sound of torrent of air going by at 150 mph) and the lady with the chickens screamed. The chickens weren't too happy about that either.  :D

It didn't work. So, we landed, slowed down and did that again until we got that silly latch to catch right. Without ever coming to a stop, we just took off again and flew east over the north coast of Puerto Rico and then southeast to the island of Vieques.

The landing was "routine" but I should explain to you what that entailed at Vieques. They have a weird runway there.  :P The runway, when you are landing going east (which is almost always) is much higher than the other end. To further complicate matters, the runway elevation goes UP after the threshold before it starts to go DOWN.

All that is a great advantage when you are taking off but a bit tricky when you are landing. AZ, you obviously know about ground effect and low wing aircraft fun and games. A runway sloping down hill is a ground effect nightmare that can lead you to overrun the runway if you don't watch it!

I don't know if you have ever flown a FULLY LOADED TO THE GILLS Cherokee six. They are very squirrelly on landing. You know that the normal drill is to round out and then flare out, right? Well that would result in way to much FLOAT at Vieques.

So, I came up with a trick to deal with that.  ;) ;D  I would establish approach speed at a fixed pitch attitude. That's right, I would NOT flare. I would bring her over the threshold watching for the slight runway rise just before the downhill part started WITH MY HAND ON THE FLAP HANDLE (I had full flaps at this time, of course  8)). As I reached the bump I would lower the flaps to touch the main wheels without any pitch change and remove all flaps and hit the toe brakes. It worked like a charm. The people, potatoes and chickens all arrived safely.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png) (http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0503.gif)

I taught a few other pilots to do that and they said, HEY, it works! Flaps are just supposed to be there to steepen the glide path on approach when you apply them, not when you remove them, so we all agreed the FAA would not understand our cool trick and that we would never tell the feds about it. (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif)

Getting back to the Electric Airplane subject, most people are not aware that aircraft internal combustion engines mostly fail when you are at full power, which happens to be when you are taking off and need that engine the most. Electric motors, can fail at any time. But when they do, it's almost always temperature related. Which means they will rarely fail on take off because they are fresh! For large EV flying machines, having a bunch of motors will make them far more reliable than internal combustion or even jet engines (less moving parts to fail).

I can imagine the FAA coming up with some BULLSHIT about having to learn engine motor out procedure for 30 different configurations on an Electric bird with 30 motors just to keep anybody from ever being able to check out in it. That's what they do.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 27, 2017, 06:54:06 pm
I've been thinking about what story to tell here.  I've told a lot of stories on the Diner over the years, and I don't want to repeat one I've told before.  I've probably told most of the best ones.  I don't think I've ever told the story of the pollywog/shellback nonsense from the Navy days.  Basically when you cross the equator on a Navy ship you have to be initiated into the kingdom of Neptune  :dontknow:  It's pretty old tradition and here's the wiki link on this fiasco:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-crossing_ceremony (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-crossing_ceremony)

Quote
In the 19th century and earlier, the line-crossing ceremony was quite a brutal event, often involving beating pollywogs with boards and wet ropes and sometimes throwing the victims over the side of the ship, dragging the pollywog in the surf from the stern. In more than one instance, sailors were reported to have been killed while participating in a line-crossing ceremony.

As late as World War II, the line-crossing ceremony was still rather rough and involved activities such as the "Devil's Tongue", which was an electrified piece of metal poked into the sides of those deemed pollywogs. Beatings were often still common, usually with wet firehoses, and several World War II Navy deck logs speak of sailors visiting sick bay after crossing the line.

Efforts to curtail the line-crossing ceremony did not begin until the 1980s, when several reports of blatant hazing began to circulate regarding the line-crossing ceremony, and at least one death was attributed to abuse while crossing the line.


Now, y'all know how I felt about the Navy while I was in.  Our crossing of the equator was happening as we were sailing back to the states after dropping 3 million pounds of ordinance on Afghanistan days after 9/11.  We had just had liberty in Singapore for a few days (which was the first port since the bombing campaign started...we were at sea for 115 consecutive days).  While I was in Singapore I almost went UA (unauthorized absence).  I had went into an internet cafe and researched on how to change my identity.  I had paid for some pamphlet with detailed instructions on how to do it.  Minutes before it was time to get back on the shuttle that would take me back to the ship I was still contemplating whether to go UA or not.  Ultimately, because I was in a foreign country, and at the behest of my only friend on the ship, I decided to get on the damn shuttle and take my sorry ass back to that sorry ass ship. 

A couple of days later and we are going out of our way to cross the equator so that we can be initiated as Shellbacks.  From Singapore to Hawaii you don't cross the equator, but we were crossing it, going out of our way to do so.  This was 2001, and by then the Navy was allowing sailors to opt out of the proceedings. 

It was highly recommended by the chain of command that all sailors participate.  In fact you were mostly coerced into it even if you didn't want to, and by the chain of command.  Never mind all of the peer pressuring.  Nobody wanted to do the horrible things that were done to you during this ridiculous excuse to **** with your inferiors, and in some cases superiors.  It was a way to get a lot of rage out on your fellow shipmates.  I was bound and determined that I would have nothing to do with this barbaric display of suppressed anger.  I made sure to sign my waiver and opted out.  In my division I think there was only one other individual that opted out.  So, day of the crossing, and I'm blissfully in my rack, listening to music, enjoying my time off (that was a rarity). 

Disgusting and putrid things were done to you during this hazing process.  Eating jelly out of the fat chiefs belly button, crawling around on the smoke deck with a leash and collar on, and all manner of disgusting concoctions were made for the occasion.  Think mayo mixed with syrup and ketchup and pickles and anything else that was in the galley that could be added to make the most horrid experience possible for the pollywogs to endure.  Not me, **** you, I was in my rack enjoying my time off while all of the idiots participated in the ridiculousness.  Safe and sound, until I wasn't any longer. 

You see, in the lounge of my berthing all of the idiots had assembled and created a mass of crawling worms with their almost naked bodies.  They had all striped down to their skives, my entire division, and had created a 40 person dog pile of disgusting sailor bodies mixed with the fore mentioned galley concoction.  I was pulled out of my rack by several mouth breathers and thrown into this noxious pile of retards.  I was the only one clothed due to my forced participation.  I ended up on the bottom of this pile of odious bodies.  Attempting to claw my way out and some fat ass decided to belly flop onto me from a couch.  He landed and nearly broke my arm.  I clawed my way out of this pile of fat and goo and retreated to my rack.  I suppose the group think was satisfied since I was now covered in goo and boat funk.  I went straight to my rack, grabbed my shower bag, and headed off to the head to get clean. 

On my way up the ladder, just to the top, and that's when the ship listed 12 degrees to the port side.  At 15 degrees the tower on a carrier is designed to snap off of the ship and into Davy Jones' locker to keep the ship upright.  I had a firm grip on the ladder when it happened.  I watched as the slippery bodies tossed and turned over one another.  A few people went cruising down the p-ways being unable to pull off enough traction to stay upright.  It seems that we were headed straight into a tropical storm and it was sufficiently bad enough to where we had to change course.  In perfect navy style we never crossed the equator  :laugh:  Also in perfect Navy style they still allowed all of the pollywogs to become shellbacks even though it's about crossing the equator and we never did cross it. 

As soon as the p-way was back to an even keel I got my ass to the head and showered.  In the five minutes it took me to shower the p-ways had turned into a line of sailors all waiting for the head so they to could shower.  Of course they were all covered from head to toe in pollywog grease and looked exceptionally miserable.  The Captain had informed us all on the 1mc that we were not going to cross the equator due to the storm, so all of these idiots were in the state they were in and still gonna be pollywogs  :laughing6:  I felt exceptionally justified as I walked back to my rack past all of these disgusting idiots.  I had just gotten ahead of this line.  Every head on the ship had a line of sailors stretching further than one could see.  Basically the entire ship was trying to catch a shower at the same time.  I had just finished my shower. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)  I felt like I was the only one that had become a Shellback in that moment.
Great story.
(http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_0293.gif)

LD, that was a rather timely tropical storm. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png) I know you aren't into that sort of belief system, but I think God has a great sense of humor.   (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif)

I got my share and then some of hazing back at West Point. It was so bad in the summer of 1964 that a cadet was paralized. It was inadvertent. They has him doing the roach. That's where you lay on your back with a rifle at port arms and move your legs double time. The kid made some kind of move with his neck and, though he did not break his neck, somehow lost nerve sensation below the neck.  :emthdown:
That slowed the hazing down for a while. One of those fun things they would make us do is sweat through our bath robes (shower formation (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013200859.png)) while bracing and reciting at the top of our lung capacity (if we didn't yell it out, the upperclassmen would say, "POP OFF!") all kinds of memory crap from our bugle notes plebe 'bible' (army poems, proverbs, snippets of speeches from generals, songs, rank insignias for all services from the lowest to the commander in chief, etc.).

I actually thought some of that idiocy was funny at the time. But hey, I was 17 and thoroughly brainwashed to worship all things military.    (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/gen152.gif)

They know how to turn people into mindless killing robots in the military.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183337.bmp)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 28, 2017, 02:52:27 pm
I've got one for you. Let me lay a little groundwork first.

I first went sailing with some friends when I was in college. I grew up around ski boats and fishing boats, the kind working class  people used to be able to afford when I was young , but coming from rural East Texas, I was not exposed to sailing at all as a kid. That was something rich people did. I never even thought much about it. But once I tried it, I was hooked for life. However, for four long years of dental school, I was nose to the grindstone. I didn't even have the time to read a book for pleasure. Dental school is roughly equivalent to carrying about a 25 hour load as an undergrad. I was at school every weekday from 7:30 am until midnight most nights, when they made us leave and go home whether we wanted to or not. Four years, with a month off for summers. I worked as a research assistant during the summer breaks. I needed the money.

When I got out of school in San Antonio and moved to Houston to start my residency in pediatrics, I scrimped together enough money to spend maybe a thousand bucks on a very neglected but very worthy old Flying Scot, a 20 ft daysailor with a big swing keel with a windlass. I didn't even know where to go to put it in the water. I asked someone, and they said people sailed on Offut's Bayou in Galveston. I proceeded to hook up the trailer to my 1976 Toyota Corolla Wagon (1600cc's, 5 speed manual transmission, roughly half the size of the boat) and headed down there to check it out.

Fortunately, the freeway on to Galveston Island crosses Offut's Bayou, so I found it without much trouble. I backed down the public ramp and launched my vessel. I was pretty busy between the hospital and two part-time side jobs, but I found time a couple of times a month to drive down there and begin to figure out how to sail a boat. By the time I was out, two years later, I at least knew a tack from a jibe, and enough not to get blown on to a lee shore. There was a lot more about sailing I didn't know, far more than I did know. But when we moved to Austin i pulled the Scot down (now behind my new Ford Bronco II, the worst car I ever owned...but that's another story).

When we had moved to Houston, my two oldest girls were ages 2 1/2 and 6 months. Near the Med Center there was a fairly famous infant swimming school, the Phil Hansell Academy. Remember that article from Life Magazine in the 1960's that documented how children younger than a year could be taught to float and even swim? Phil Hansell (one time swim coach for University of Houston) got in on that early wave, and started such a training center. By the time we came to town, it had been in business over 20 years, and it's still there now. The teachers there have taught thousands of babies how to float on their backs fully clothed, with a soaked diaper. The kids don't graduate until they can do that.

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwuCMf8scIsXYbuJ5fDFwly2S1X4LviwUQl3SmOrdM8sfIKOx9)
A Typical Infant Swimmer (after 3-6 months of training)

On the wall at Phil Hansell are displayed many letters, photos,  and anecdotes from parents whose children's lives were subsequently saved in various water accidents as a result of their training, even one involving a toddler who fell through an open manhole and floated far below street level in a storm sewer for half an hour until the fire department could get a man down. Expecting a corpse, they were surprised to find a floating kid who wasn't even that upset.

My wife wanted to put our girls in swimming lessons, and so we did. We lived in some student apartments owned by the University of Texas, which had an Olympic pool. Very soon my kids were known around the complex as swimming prodigies, and the late Dr. Red Duke (trauma surgeon turned TV personality) who had a regular spot on the nightly evening news, even sent out a camera crew to video my kids, and they were on TV one night, for maybe 30 seconds. LOL. Frequently, people who didn't know they were completely water safe, would jump into the pool and try to rescue them, or just walk up and give us a ration of **** about not watching our kids around the pool. It was a great joke for me and my wife.

Fast forward to the summer of '87. We moved to Austin, and I started asking again about where to put in a sailboat on Lake Travis. My wife's brother allowed as he had seen people sailing at a place called Windy Point, so once again, I hitched up the trailer and went to check it out.

There are no coincidences.

Now, today, Windy Point would be the last place I'd go to launch a sailboat on Lake Travis. Very shallow water, no boat ramp. I had to back way out into the water in my car to try to launch, and it still wasn't easy. A guy about ten years older than us offered to help us launch. He'd been sailing a borrowed Sunfish, but had just broken his rudder. He helped me launch the Scot, and bummed a ride. Turned out he was a single Dad who lived right in our neighborhood and had a son right between my kids in age. We would go on to become best friends and sailing buddies (on a long string of boats) for decades. He was already an experienced sailor, but not on small boats.

We spent the whole summer sailing our asses off, kids along, often all three kids and me, my wife and our new friend Terry.

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSf_6VetoT1whAbAg4ZWuD7U18MbHjgg_uD9AZ3J5cXB3HWvMfgFA)
A Flying Scot Under Full Sail

In Texas it isn't always obvious when summer ends. We went out one fine Sunday, the first weekend in November, 1987. The weather was glorious, the water still fairly tolerable for swimming, and the wind was blowing a steady 10-15 knots. By this time we were feeling pretty good about our expertise, and we "put the rail in the water" as they say, and spent a great afternoon sailing across the main basin in Lake Travis. Now, one thing you should know, is that lake sailing can be tricky. Unlike the bay, the wind is constantly changing direction and speed, and promontories of land can put you out of the wind completely. Eventually, Terry and I would know that lake like the back of our hands, but we were still newbies then.

We had already named the main basin "The Vortex" because of the weird wind effects there. One side of the lake is lined with high cliffs. At the top is a huge destination restaurant and bar called The Oasis, which bills itself as "The Sunset Capital of Texas". The wind along the cliffs creates whirls and eddies and you can never tell exactly what you might get hit with next.

We stayed out until very few other boats were still on the lake. The wind started to rise a bit, but we didn't pay that much attention. We had put away a few beers, and we were having fun. Terry was at the helm...if you can call lying on your back with one hand on the rudder and the other holding the mainsheet "at the helm".

Then, suddenly, it all went very wrong. A big gust, and we heeled way over. Terry let go the main and I let go the jib. but the mainsheet (the line that lets the mainsail release, thereby de-powering the sail and preventing a capsize), got caught under someone's foot. In one long second, we got knocked down. We were in the drink. Me, Terry, my wife, and my two girls. His kid was not there. Mom's weekend.

The Scot has a somewhat unique rig. The main halyard (the line that raises and drops the main sail) is not a rope. It's a cable, and it works by turning a tiny little ratcheting winch in a box affixed to the mast. To drop the main, you need the winch handle. The winch handle was gone. As we went over, my oldest girl grabbed the boom, and I had to pry her strong little hands off of it to keep her from being dragged under as the boat proceeded to turtle,

The kids had on life jackets. The rest of us grabbed one and put it on. Nobody was hurt. Everyone was fine.

Except...the sun was going down and the water was getting colder. There wasn't a single boat in sight. Terry and I finally stood on the centerboard together and stood the boat back up. But it was too full of water to bail, and the wet main, still up, was making the boat unstable. It could turtle again anytime. We were already getting exhausted. 

(http://i.vimeocdn.com/video/66466085_1280x720.jpg)
A Swamped Scot

Within a few minutes, I knew we were in real trouble. I was cold, but the kids were really cold, teeth chattering cold. Blue skin cold. They wouldn't last an hour. No way. The sun set and we were way too far from shore to swim in. It started to get dark.

Just about the time I was coming to the realization that my kids were in danger of dying of exposure, a small cabin sailboat, sails furled, motored up under the power of a tiny outboard. They took my wife and kids onboard and dried them off. We didn't want to abandon our boat. It was too unstable to tow, though. So....Terry and I stayed onboard and sat on opposite sides on the gunwales and kept the wobbling boat upright, while they towed us to shore, which took about an hour. Their tiny motor strained just to pull the Scot with its cockpit full of water and its flapping main sail.

It was nearly 10pm before we were able to secure our boat to some rocks near the put-in, where we left it for the night, still full of water. We would return the next day to bail it and put in back on the trailer.

(https://txwinelover.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/oasis-from-oake.jpg)
The actual site of our accident. The shore is not nearly as close at it looks.

I was colder than I ever remember being. Our rescuers gave me some dry sweats and towels, and I stripped off my wet t-shirt and shorts and put them on, but my teeth kept chattering for a half hour and I didn't get warm for hours. Not until I was home in bed. We quickly thanked our rescuers and they motored off. My wife drove us home, because neither Terry nor I was was able to drive.

About ten years later, my wife was attending an adult bible class here at Riverbend Church one Sunday. The teacher asked everyone in the class to recount some experience they'd had that had made a real impact on them. The people in the class took turns telling about things that had happened to them.

One woman started to tell a story about a day when her family had been at the lake, motoring in at dusk, when they came upon a derelict sailboat and some people with little kids stranded in the middle of the lake....and how they pulled them out of the water and saved their lives. As the story progressed, my wife suddenly realized she was talking about rescuing us!  So she finally had the chance to thank them properly.

I'm sure they'll never forget what they did for us. Neither will I. What would have happened if they hadn't stopped to help us? I'm not sure. But the outcome might have been very tragic. I learned a lesson that day about sailing. A hard lesson I'll never forget.



EXCELLENT! Thank you, Eddie!  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/19.gif)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on April 29, 2017, 04:38:49 pm
Thanks AG.

You are most welcome. I am convinced there was a significant bit of spiritual intercession that day/night. (http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1726/1726203ha2mjbxeje.gif)

(http://hawrivercanoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/HRCK-web_LAP3643-e1362334221328-1024x511.jpg)

In terms of boating insanity, one of my best anecdotes is a canoe trip I took with a friend to Verendrye Provincial Park in the Great White North.

I had been there before as a Camper in the Primitive Skills camp I attended as a teenager, so I was the "expert" on this trip.  On the trip with the camp, there were experienced counselors who knew the route, they took it every year.  It covered 3 lakes with 2 portages that were not too long, one maybe a 1/4 mile, the other maybe a 1/2 mile.

I wanted to see all the parts of the park we missed on that trip!  There are dozens of lakes, along with rivers/streams/creeks between them.

So first thing was to order a topographical map of the park to plan the trip.  There was no internet and no Google Earth in those days.  We budgeted 2 weeks for this trip after finals in May.  I picked out what looked like a really cool route on the map of 6 lakes with 3 portages and 2 river connections, which I figured probably had some rapids because there was a significant elevation change between the lakes.  Figured we could handle it though, being a couple of macho 20 year old guys. lol.

So we drive to Canada and first thing is to rent the canoe from an outfitter and give him our launch point and destination for pickup later, along with the estimated date of arrival.  No cell phones in those days either, so if you missed your pickup time, this was not good.  You had to then hitch a ride to the nearest pay phone and get them to come back for you, and pay an additional fee for that.

So OK, I give our route and dates to the guy renting the canoes and he looks at me suspiciously.  In a really thick Hoser accent, he asks me:

"So you have canoed here in Verendrye before?"

"Oh yes, I respond."

"You are sure you can make this route in 2 weeks?" he asks.

"Oh sure." I respond.

"OK, I rent you the canoe.  $300 deposit."

"$300?  Your sign says $100."

"That is for lake trips only.  Not down the rivers."

This of course should have clued me in, but we drove all that way and I didn't want to just paddle around lakes and hoist a canoe on my back on portages, I wanted White Water ADVENTURE!  :o

The canoe is a big old cheap aluminum model, not anything real nice and also costs I think it was $100/week rental fee.  Fortunately we carried a lot of spare cash, since there were no digibit cards then and neither of us had credit cards yet.  The $500 outlay did not leave us much left over though, probably not enough for gas to get back to NYC.  I figured I could wire my mom for more money though to get home.

So he loads the canoe on the trailer and drops us off at Lake 1.  First day is just beautiful, it's about 80F in May in Canada, and this like never happened back in those days.  We paddle across the Lake and make camp, for a portage the next morning to do Lake 2.  Fabulous meal of 2 fresh steaks packed in ice and wrapped in a makeshift cooler of towels and (clean) underwear, along with rice and canned beans.  Rest of the trip was all Freeze Dried food of the era, which amounted to Chicken ala King, Spaghetti with Meat Sauce and "chinese" Pepper Steak.  We smoked a doobie and hit the sack.

Next morning, instant oatmeal for breakfast and we do the portage, first carrying the backpacks along the trail, then going back for the canoe.  Temperature is still climbing, now approaching 90 on day 2, still in the morning.  Work up a nice sweat.  Launch point?  On the map it looked like part of a Lake, in REALITY it was SWAMP attached to the lake!  Mosquitos come out as we begin to paddle through the reeds.  Not a few mosquitos, the air is BLACK with them.  Out of desperation we jump out of the canoe and into the water, walking/swimming the canoe along from underwater and coming up for quick gulps of air, filled with mosquitos.  I takes an hour or so to make it throuh the swamp and into open water.  Mosquitos finally peter out.  We are both bitten up and itchy, but splash the clear cool water on which relieves the itch and we paddle across the lake.  I fill up my canteen with water in the middle of the lake, and drink from it with no boiling, no purification tablets.  Water still pretty clean in those years.

The other side of this lake is the first River connection.  We stop here for 2 days of rest and relaxation, do some fishing and catch some, so we have more fresh food here to go with the freeze dried stuff. Mosquito itching subsides, and we walk the river bank to scope it out, spying where the rocks are and good channels to try and go through.  It doesn't look too bad, so that even though it's an open canoe, we elect to try it with our gear in the canoe, rather than walk it with gear first, then go back for an empty canoe ride.  This was a mistake.

We did in fact make the whole ride without capsizing, although we did not hit all the channels we had planned to.  By the time we were halfway down the river, we had shipped about half the canoe full of water.  Our packs were stewing in this, and the canoe itself was wallowing deep in the water and hitting every rock on the ricer bed.  SCRAPE, SCRAPE, DENT, DENT.  Scrapes and dents were a minimum of $10/inch off your deposit money on the canoe for repairs.  All our gear was SOAKED.  It took a day to get everything dried out.

On the second portage my friend sprained his ankle.  Not really bad, but enough we had to wait 2 days to get rolling again, because the canoe was just too heavy for me to portage alone.  Now we were starting to run behind schedule.  The second river run was about the same as the first, although this time we were smart enough to bring our packs down on foot first, then go back for an empty canoe ride.  We still hit more rocks though.  SCRAPE, SCRAPE, DENT, DENT!

We did make our pickup on time, paddling well into the night the 2 days before the meeting time.  The Hoser who picked us up look genuinely surprised we made it.  He looked at the dented up wreck of a canoe and laughed.  Back at his shop, he gave us estimate on repairs, $500.  $200 more than the deposit!  No got the money.  Drives me to a supply store with Western Union and I wire mom for the money.  Comes through, and we are free to drive back to NYC.

For $500 then you could have bought a brand spanking new canoe of this type, and he probably did that rather than repair it.

RE

Ouch! But hey, you came out okay so it was a good experience. As we used to say in pilot training, any flight you can walk away from is a good one.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)  ;D
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 22, 2017, 08:02:35 pm
Debate with a Monist  8)

The thread was about nihilism and eternalism. Ka, a type of Buddhist Monist, claimed RE had engaged in Ad Hominem against people like him by mocking nihilists by claiming nihilist views are "fear" based.

I stepped in to try to insert some clarity into the discussion.  ;D


Ka,
why do you think being motivated by fear is a negative concept? I agree that being motivated by GROUNDLESS fear is certainly to be disdained, but LOGIC based fear (e.g. some thing, being or event is to be feared because it has been conclusively proven to be deleterious to your continued biochemical activity.), IMHO, is, well, prudent, as well as logical.


Yes, but the question is, is eternalism true or not. To say that eternalists are eternalists only out of fear does not say anything about whether or not eternalism is true. Chapman wouldn't have put that statement in there except to cast doubt on eternalism. just as atheists bring up wish-fulfillment and such to question theism. Even if it were true that all eternalists are fearful of nihilism, that would not in itself make eternalism false. Hence his statement is a logical fallacy. And that kind of fallacy is called an ad hominem, because it refers to the character of the eternalist, and not eternalism itself.

Hmmmm. After all the polite debate between Ka and RE  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/3ztzsjm.gif), I feel the need to expose a fundamental intransigence on the party of the first, second and third (etc.  :icon_mrgreen:) parts in this eruption of erudite debating activity.


So,
It appears that Ka has attempted to dance around the FACT that it offends him for anyone to NOT question the validity of externalism.  ;D

RE is correct  :o  ;D that questioning Externalism to the point of saying it is totally invalid, useless, counterproductive and possibly destructive to human society (paraphrased  ;)) is certainly NOT Ad Hom to Ka, just because Ka thinks our plebian perception of reality is some sort of illusion that we cause and effect types are being fooled into believing. RE and I are on different sides of the universe in regard to SPIRITUAL cause and effect, but that's not relevant to this particular effort by da godfader, so I won't get caught up in that bag of worms here.

RE gets it about the connection between reality and what is external to us and what ain't. Ka not only doesn't get it, he is pissed at anyone who says Ka doesn't get it.

A few years ago I went through excruciating detail explaining the human sensory apparatus. The very ability of Ka to question our assumed cause and effect "externalism" is impossible without that sensory apparatus.

But Ka, even though he is a man I respect immensely, just don't wanna go there.

So, as Comey would say:

(https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2017/05/Jim-Comey.jpg)

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 22, 2017, 08:12:46 pm
RE and I are on different sides of the universe in regard to SPIRITUAL cause and effect

I'll dispute that conclusion.

We're in entirely DIFFERENT Universes!
(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp)

RE


Yup.   (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/155fs853955.gif)


So,
It appears that Ka has attempted to dance around the FACT that it offends him for anyone to NOT question the validity of externalism.  ;D

?? In this thread there has been no debate concerning the validity of externalism. I did state my position on the matter in my first post in this thread, but the only thing objected to in that post was my use of the term "ad hominem". Since then, that is all that RE and I have been debating. So I don't understand how you get to "Ka has attempted to dance around the FACT that it offends him for anyone to NOT question the validity of externalism."


Quote
RE is correct  :o  ;D that questioning Externalism to the point of saying it is totally invalid, useless, counterproductive and possibly destructive to human society (paraphrased  ;)) is certainly NOT Ad Hom to Ka,

I agree. It would not be an ad hom. Only he hasn't said anything of that nature in this thread.


Quote
... just because Ka thinks our plebian perception of reality is some sort of illusion that we cause and effect types are being fooled into believing.

Our perception is not an illusion. It is an inference we make concerning the nature of what we perceive that I consider to be false, namely that what we perceive exists on its own in the way we perceive it. Just clarifying.


[/size]
Quote
RE gets it about the connection between reality and what is external to us and what ain't.

Then how does he (or you) solve the interaction problem?

Quote
Ka not only doesn't get it, he is pissed at anyone who says Ka doesn't get it.

I'm just waiting to hear of a solution to the interaction problem (not really, since I don't think there is a solution). Anyway, I don't see how that counts as being "pissed" or not "getting it".


Quote
A few years ago I went through excruciating detail explaining the human sensory apparatus. The very ability of Ka to question our assumed cause and effect "externalism" is impossible without that sensory apparatus.

I don't ever recall saying that we don't have a sensory apparatus. Whether it does what you think it does, versus what I think it does, is what we debated. And the answer to that cannot be provided by the sensory apparatus alone, which just gets perceptions. It is the concepts we add to those perceptions that are in dispute.

Quote
But Ka, even though he is a man I respect immensely, just don't wanna go there.

Well, here I am, going there.


Ka,
Your vocabulary lends itself to some fascinating interpretations of what "IS" is. THAT is why any debate with you ends up in a hair splitting exercise. What you DO with words is, as RE has pointed out repeatedly, move the definition goal posts around so that you can say, uh, NO "I didn't say that" or "No, this thread has no relevance to eXternalism", etc. FOLLOWED by your apparent willingness to discuss an issue, that by your own words, is rather fruitless to discuss (i.e. the interaction).  ::)

Here's the deal, Ka. EVERYTHING about your outlook on what you consider WHATEVER is impossible to argue against BECAUSE you DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE (yeah - I know you'll claim that about you is incorrect as well) WE are talking to each other here.

Sure, you can come up with all sorts of erudite labels with "justification" for your claim that you believe we do have sensory apparatus and that you do actually engage in debate with other humans and recognize that we talk to each other, but it is NOT SO, according to your concept of reality.   

This then taints absolutely every subject on the issue (i.e. cause and effect related) about integrating, analyzing and taking appropriate action on, INFORMATION about the OUTSIDE world that our sensory apparatus MUST have for us to remain as viable homeostatic biological entities. 

There is just NO WAY for you to look at your belief system and seriously consider the possibility that you are a space cadet living in a totally erroneous private world. The biosphere is NOT accessible through a meditation chamber, and never will be, IMHO. You have provided zero evidence that it is.

Furthermore, you may even claim that "looking for evidence" is evidence ;) of an incorrect approach to "perceiving" the biosphere or anything else.  :laugh:  It's kind of like saying that jumping out of a window of a multistory building is not dangerous; it's the concrete that kills you. And even that was a mere perception of smacking the concrete. (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/ugly004.gif)

When I question your ability to perceive without accepting the fact that perceiving IS a sensory EVENT that INCLUDES integrating outside information, you DANCE by saying the, uh, "interaction is not explained".

I'll tell you what. When you agree that it is possible that you are a space cadet and do not have a clue of what you speak, then I will admit that SAME possibility is present in my worldview as well. But until you, a separate and distinct entity from me, are actually willing to GO THERE, you are fibbin' when you claim you ARE willing to "go there" on the issue of eXternalism.

I challenge your claim that eXternalism is not related to, or relevant to, this thread. It is. People who BELIEVE that there is ZERO meaning in anything and everything they "do" OFTEN end up committing suicide (e.g. Buddhists). THIS SENSELESS ACT is born of nihilism. ANYONE that teaches others that there is NOTHING because there is NO THING is nurturing a potential nihilist who may end up committing suicide.

DON'T hair split with me about the importance of MEANING and PURPOSE in human lives. Your worldview EXCLUDES BOTH MEANING AND PURPOSE. But of, course, you will claim that you never said any of that or represent any of that. Well, I think you do. And I think you should take responsibility for telling people there is NOTHING to FEAR out there because there is NO THING, or even an "out there".

The following is an example of REALITY of the planet Earth, irrespective of anything we humans have THOUGHT since we could THINK. There is NO WAY to dance around THAT REALITY (yes you DO try to dance around it!).
(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-171015000317.png)

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 22, 2017, 08:23:20 pm

Your vocabulary lends itself to some fascinating interpretations of what "IS" is. THAT is why any debate with you ends up in a hair splitting exercise. What you DO with words is, as RE has pointed out repeatedly, move the definition goal posts around so that you can say, uh, NO "I didn't say that" or "No, this thread has no relevance to eXternalism", etc.

Instead of just accusing me of moving the goalposts, show me where I have.


Quote
FOLLOWED by your apparent willingness to discuss an issue, that by your own words, is rather fruitless to discuss (i.e. the interaction). ::)

It is not fruitless to discuss it, and in fact I welcome discussion of it, since I am pretty sure that the more people think about it, the more people will realize that the interaction problem has no solution, and so take a look at the alternative -- idealism. Of course they might also fall into the error of materialism, in which case I would welcome discussion of the hard problem of consciousness, which they can't solve.

Quote
Here's the deal, Ka. EVERYTHING about your outlook on what you consider WHATEVER is impossible to argue against BECAUSE you DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE (yeah - I know you'll claim that about you is incorrect as well) WE are talking to each other here.

Yup, incorrect. See below.

Quote
Sure, you can come up with all sorts of erudite labels with "justification" for your claim that you believe we do have sensory apparatus and that you do actually engage in debate with other humans and recognize that we talk to each other, but it is NOT SO, according to your concept of reality. 

My concept of reality is that there is nothingness (no-thingness) AND there is thingness, and each depends on the other, making them a unity. So it does not follow from my concept of reality that there is no sensory apparatus, or other humans, or biosphere.


Quote
This then taints absolutely every subject on the issue (i.e. cause and effect related) about integrating, analyzing and taking appropriate action on, INFORMATION about the OUTSIDE world that our sensory apparatus MUST have for us to remain as viable homeostatic biological entities.  [/size]

There is just NO WAY for you to look at your belief system and seriously consider the possibility that you are a space cadet living in a totally erroneous private world. The biosphere is NOT accessible through a meditation chamber, and never will be, IMHO. You have provided zero evidence that it is.

?? What does meditation have to do with the existence of anything?

Quote
Furthermore, you may even claim that "looking for evidence" is evidence ;) of an incorrect approach to "perceiving" the biosphere or anything else.  :laugh:

The only (non)-thing for which one cannot look for evidence is no-thingness. The biosphere is a thing, so there is no problem perceiving it, or studying it scientifically.

Quote
It's kind of like saying that jumping out of a window of a multistory building is not dangerous; it's the concrete that kills you. And even that was a mere perception of smacking the concrete. (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/ugly004.gif)

Ah, now here there is something to say. Yes, smacking the concrete is just perceptions, very painful ones, resulting in death, which is to say the scrunched up body is no longer able to perceive physical reality (its sensory apparatus has been destroyed). After which (I think) one perceives non-physical reality, but I can't prove that. In any case, physical reality continues to exist as long as there are people or bacteria perceiving it. The problem I suspect you have with this is the word "just" as in "just perceptions". My task, if we are to actually debate this, is to show that saying that physical reality is "just perceptions" does not detract an iota from science, or how we should engage with physical reality, for example, it remains the case that jumping out of high windows results in death.

Quote
When I question your ability to perceive without accepting the fact that perceiving IS a sensory EVENT that INCLUDES integrating outside information, you DANCE by saying the, uh, "interaction is not explained".

As I said, I accept that perceiving is a sensory event, and have no idea why you think I would think otherwise. And it does integrate outside information, that is, information that was outside my ego consciousness, and moves inside it. However, I would also say that "inside" and "outside" are spatial metaphors, and that space has no independent existence, that we create space, time, and mass in the act of perceiving. And this, of course, is where discussion gets tricky, and calls for "hair-splitting", though I would call it precision. The moon really exists, but only exists located in spacetime when it is looked at.

Quote
I'll tell you what. When you agree that it is possible that you are a space cadet and do not have a clue of what you speak, then I will admit that SAME possibility is present in my worldview as well. But until you, a separate and distinct entity from me, are actually willing to GO THERE, you are fibbin' when you claim you ARE willing to "go there" on the issue of eXternalism.

I agree that it is possible that I am wrong. There is no certainty in metaphysics. All one can do is argue over what is most plausible. But then I have never claimed otherwise, so I really don't understand this talk about being unwilling to "go there". After all, until I was 37 I was just as much an externalist as you are now. So I've been there.

Quote
I challenge your claim that eXternalism is not related to, or relevant to, this thread. It is.

Of course it is highly relevant to this thread, which is why I made my first post in this thread attacking externalism. However, it is not relevant to the debate I had with RE over the usage of 'ad hominem', which is all I claimed.


Quote
People who BELIEVE that there is ZERO meaning in anything and everything they "do" OFTEN end up committing suicide (e.g. Buddhists). THIS SENSELESS ACT is born of nihilism. ANYONE that teaches others that there is NOTHING because there is NO THING is nurturing a potential nihilist who may end up committing suicide.

Then I'm off the hook, because I definitely believe there are things, such as you, me, and the biosphere, and that real people are doing real harm to it. What I do not believe is that there are any mindless things existing on their own.


Quote
DON'T hair split with me about the importance of MEANING and PURPOSE in human lives. Your worldview EXCLUDES BOTH MEANING AND PURPOSE. But of, course, you will claim that you never said any of that or represent any of that. Well, I think you do. And I think you should take responsibility for telling people there is NOTHING to FEAR out there because there is NO THING, or even an "out there".

I am afraid of disease, poisonous critters, of losing my savings to some bankster, etc. etc., since I consider viruses, critters, and banksters to all be real. I also think that MEANING and PURPOSE are names of God, and that things exist to express that Meaning and fulfill divine Purpose.

You say I am moving goalposts. Show me where I have. Show me where I have ever said or implied that "nothing is real" or anything like that. Some Buddhists say that, but I am not one of them.


Well, how can I show you that you have said it?  (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6656.gif) The only way, I suppose, which I am sure you will take issue with, is the "spatial metaphors" term and the alleged conditional "existence" of the moon (or any thing -atoms, molecules, people, etc.- else, for that matter).

Ka said (smileys are sins of Agelbert - Ka is innocent!):
Quote
I would also say that "inside" and "outside" are spatial metaphors, and that space has no independent existence, that we create space, time, and mass in the act of perceiving. And this, of course, is where discussion gets tricky  ;), and calls for "hair-splitting"  ;D, though I would call it precision.(http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_2932.gif) The moon really exists, but only exists located in spacetime when it is looked at.
(emphasis mine  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp))

I don't like to use labels, but aren't you a type of monist?
Quote

Monism is the view that attributes oneness or singleness (Greek: μόνος) to a concept (e.g., existence). Substance monism is the philosophical view that a variety of existing things can be explained in terms of a single reality or substance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism)
(emphasis mine  ;D)

The issue of names for God is not something I ever associated MEANING and PURPOSE with. I agree that God has a lot to do with that in our lives, but I wasn't talking about God; I was talking about humans. You know, like Maslow's hierarchy and things like that. When you do that sort of subject classification rearrangement, it appears to me that you just moved a goal post. Can we stick to human meaning and purpose for a while? You are the scholar, but I know a thing or two about language as well. The word "vocation" is one I would associate with God as linked to meaning and purpose in our lives simply because I believe that we all have a mission. But that's at a level of mind far beyond avoiding pain, breathing, getting enough to eat, maintaining homeostasis, etc.

Quote
vo·ca·tion noun: vocation; plural noun: vocations

late Middle English: from Old French, or from Latin vocatio(n-), from vocare ‘to call.’

a strong feeling of suitability for a particular career or occupation.
"not all of us have a vocation to be nurses or doctors"

synonyms: calling, life's work, mission, purpose, function; More
profession, occupation, career, job, employment, trade, craft, business, line, line of work, métier

"forestry is my vocation"

•a person's employment or main occupation, especially regarded as particularly worthy and requiring great dedication.

Back to the window jump to concrete splat experience, to you, the concrete is only "there" because the jumper thought it would be there PRIOR to jumping out of the window. If, for example, the jumper firmly THOUGHT that a 12 ft deep swimming pool was down there prior to jumping, he would just splash into the pool and swim to the edge unharmed.

This "ability" you believe we conscious entiti(es  ;)) possess to sort of create our physical universe on the fly as a function of perception (which vanishes from existence just as quickly with our Trump like "attention" to perception) is a bit difficult to accept from the point of view of thermodynamics, if nothing else is at issue (although there certainly ARE a lot of other controversial considerations to be explained).

Once I had appendicitis. I didn't know I had it. I just knew I had an upset stomach after eating at around 6:00 PM, which turned into a stomach ache that would not go away, but was not localized on my right side near the appendix. I went to the ER at around 9:00 PM. The doctor diagnosed my ache as gastritis and prescribed some shots I could give myself in the thigh (two shots).

Now why did he make that mistake? BECAUSE of the power of suggestion of my mind (at least partly - the doctor that operated on me later on told me it's real hard to diagnose appendicitis when the pain isn't localized, and even then they can only confirm SOMETHING is wrong in one or more of your organs because of the high white blood cell count).

You see, when I arrived at the ER with that gut pain, the young doctor, after examining a 24 year old healthy male with a stomach ache, gave me a shot of something. The pain in my stomach vanished like it had never been there. This convinced the  doctor that his gastritis initial diagnosis was correct, so no blood tests were ordered and I was sent home.

I got up at midnight with renewed pain in my stomach. I gave myself the shot. Within an hour it was worse. I gave myself the second shot. By two AM, I am pounding on the headboard to avoid dealing with the severe stomach pain and cramping.

WHY? Because I was poor, newly married, had been fired from an air taxi for organizing a union, was out of a job, and living in my parent's house. I DID NOT WANT to rack up some hospital expenses, comprende, amigo?

BUT, I had GREAT FAITH in doctors. But that "faith" didn't last too long as the organs did a duty dance in there. I finally went back to the hospital at around 4:00 AM and, within another 12 hours, and a LOT of pain, I had my appendix, which had ruptured, making it life threatening peritonitis, removed.

The doctor that operated on me later explained that some people, like me, never get a pain in their SIDE that helps doctors diagnose appendicitis. Gastritis is more common so that's the way young doctors frequently go when faced with patients like me. The shots for gastritis actually exacerbate the swelling of the infected appendix.  :P

As the appendix swells, the other organs begin to swell as a defense mechanism. After the appendix ruptures, the other organs quickly sense this and try to limit the damage from toxins that will certainly damage them (and kill you) from septic conditions.

These other organs isolate the appendix as best they can by expanding through inflammation. It works for a while. THAT is when the pain becomes localized on your side. But if you are not operated on within a certain time period, the toxins and bacteria from the ruptured appendix attack the walls of the organs pushing against the appendix and THEY get severely infected too. Then the patient dies.

So, you can see why I have some issues with believing that my (allegedly instant matter creating thought processes) had BEANS to do with anything but making a situation WORSE BECAUSE of the power of my mind to incorrectly, but due to my faith in doctors, believe the doctor who diagnosed me with gastritis and gave me a shot had fixed everything.

From the "perception is creation of cause and effect on the fly" view you claim is logical and reasonable, it makes no sense whatsoever. Ka, I was NOT in the conscious sensory loop. Everything that happened in my appendix and surrounding organs was an involuntary response that I knew nothing about until the doctor explained it to me AFTER THE FACT. It all happened, regardless of what I THOUGHT and the events were totally adverse to my perceived economic needs at the time.

You believe our minds are a creative force, with few limits. I am convinced that our bodies and minds are, in the scientific sense of the word, "irritable". That is a term, in this case, NOT related to "being in a bad mood or feeling bothered", as it is commonly used in the vernacular. I am referring to the ability to sense defined as "irritability". I learned that term in a mainframe computer class. The Sperry Univac missile tracker converted to an air traffic tracker was "irritable" because it had sensory response connections (IO - input output) from radar sites through PAMS (peripheral adapter modules).

My organs operate on a level that my thought processes rarely sense, yet they DO have a purpose and a meaning to their primitive but absolutely vital functions within me. I cannot accept your claim that, somehow,  these irritability based cause and effect processes do not exist when I do not have them in my perception.

We have argued this stuff before. You have said, if I remember correctly, that my constructed universe is real for me so, even if I "created" all that cause and effect AFTER it happened, that's okay too because thought is not "limited" by time.

I disagree. And it is you that needs to do a bit of convincing here that you aren't making a circular argument. Think about it, Ka. Nobody can pin you down to flawed logic because your cause and effect creative horizons aren't even limited by time!

Now IF you accept that ignorance of a form of cause and effect such as my appendicitis/peritonitis on my part is inexplicable from the monist point of view, I would consider that a rational position. But that is "rational" from your point of view, ONLY if our creative modus operandi is time limited. But that would mean that reality exists independent of thought perceptions. And that is why I believe the "unlimited time for creative tought cause and effect" thing is sine qua non to your belief system.  :(

Now, if you say you agree that our instant creative processes ARE time limited, as you imply when you say the moon no longer exists right after you stop thinking about the moon, then you should NOT keep denying, what I believe is a corollary, i.e. that, if I am in a space ship, I won't hit the moon, even if I'm flying at it in ignorance, because I don't THINK it's there. :P  Sorry Ka, it's THERE, whether I am thinking about it or not.

My appendix ruptured when it was the very last thing I wanted or was thinking about because the poison was THERE.

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on July 03, 2017, 02:41:41 pm
OK! Day 2 of the July 4th Weekend Stealth Van Testing now done!   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png)

I got up early (for me) this morning around 9AM with quite a few projects to accomplish.  Although a good deal more organized than when I took off on the Adventure, SaVannah was still not up to snuff to have such a small space well enough organized to move around.  This became clear early in the morning when I first woke up and because of all the clutter from the campsite I threw back into her for the night, I couldn't move around easily to get myself dressed for the day.  So on the list for more stuff to buy went a couple of more organizing containers/plastic drawers.

By early morning also it was pretty cold, around 50F (10C).  While I was toasty warm in my sleeping bag, once out of it and trying to get dressed (which takes me quite a while), it was rather chilly. I had to fire up the engine and get the Van heating system going, running the engine for around 20 minutes.  So tonight I am implementing the first of my several levels of Heating Plans.  I am utilizing a kerosene lamp as a heater overnight.  This is straight out of the Van Dweller Handbook.

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-030717160020.jpeg)

When I fired up the lamp around 8PM, temps were still a comfortable 63F both inside and outside SaVannah.  As the night approached around 11PM, outside temps had dropped to around 55F, while the interior of SaVannah was up to 65F, a full 10F of gradient there on one kero lamp!  I think 1 lamp runnig overnight will work at these temps.  Going down to 40F, I might have to run 2 or 3 lamps.  Because the volume of the space is so small, you get a lot of bang for your buck on heating this way.  Kero lamps burn miniscule amounts of kero, a Liter will last at least a week.  I'll report tomorrow on where the temps were at when I wake up.  For still colder temps, I can run more of these lanterns.  2 more should take me down to close to freezing I think.  After that, it may be necessary to fire up the Catalytic Kero Heater which pops out a whopping 8000 BTUs.  That should warm up the cabin in minutes, I doubt I would have to run it continuously unless outside temps were in the Slope territory of -30F and below, and I NEVER expect to be in that situation.

The most important additional prep to buy today was a NEW LAPTOP!   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png) The one I am currently using is just beat to ****, I am lucky I even got the mother fucker to work!  That's why I bought the new Dell All-in-One as my primary computer at home in the digs.  So all of this essential **** required a drive back to "civilization" at Walmart, and since my digs are on the way there I cheated and made a stop off there in mid afternoon. ;D  That's when I wrote my fairly long post on the HOA topic.

[smg id=3920 type=preview align=center caption="Boondocks New Laptop"]

My intention was to get the new laptop set up tonight at the campsite, but I decided against that and will wait until the trip is finished on the 4th and do it at home.  The batt probably needs a good charge, and it is steadily raining which while I was protected by the Big Brolly does not give me much room to move around. Besides, setting up a new compute and downloading all your favorite software takes hours, and I would have to do that over my Wireless 4G connection and burn up the limited bandwidth.   So tonight I am suffering again on the old laptop with its keyboard idiosyncracies which makes keyboarding out this post twice as long as it should take.  The new laptop should be ready for the next Adventure down to the Kenai Peninsula for another Property Search as well as shooting pics of the Dip Netting melee. lol.

While all this stuff might seem simple to you healthy folks out there, for me it is thoroughly exhausting.  Every trip of 50 feet between me and SaVannah makes my legs ache, and I have to sit down and rest them all the time.  Simple tasks like disposing of packaging materials requires a new round trip to SaVannah, to be dropped into another garbage bag and dropped into a dumpster for itd finsl trip to the Land of Away.  It's also getting ever more difficult yo get into and out of her to access everything.  Nevertheless, I soldier onward.   ::)

RE

On awakening this morning, SaVannah was still at a comfortable 61F with exterior temps around 51.  One kero lantern running works to put out enough heat overnight to make a 9F gradient, adding in of course your body heat escaping from the sleeping bag.  I will install more permanent Hooks for lanterns and run up to four of them on cold nights.  This should cover me down into the 30sF, possibly 20s.  Colder than that, I go to the Catalytic Kero Heater.

Maybe I missed this, but are you accounting for CO buildup?

I read in an earlier installment about the fan system you hooked up, but that was for cooling. Just wondering about ventilation with all those kero appliences.
Let's not do The Big Sleep too early.


 (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png) (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png) (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)



About 20 years ago, when I still smoked, I participated in a smoking study at UVM. They would measure the amount of carbon monoxide in my lungs at intervals. When I would walk in, they would check the level before starting the test. Normally it was next to zip. But one day it was off the charts. I was also feeling rather groggy that day after sleeping rather heavily the night before.

The researcher's eye brows went up and he asked me if I had been chain smoking just before arriving. I  hadn't. But I had woken up really groggy with a bit of a scare. I was renting a tiny efficiency apartment in Burlington at the time and my wife was not with me there yet. I had lit one of those incense candles that are in large square glass containers and placed it on the floor. When I awoke in the morning, the rug was partially scorched. Luckily, the place had not caught fire, because the CO (not just the CO2 - you ALWAYS get some incomplete combustion when burning  hydrocarbons) from that candle had knocked me out just enough to keep me asleep but not quite enough to kill me, unless there was a fire.

I never lit one of those incense candles again.  :-[ We live, and we learn.


Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on July 03, 2017, 09:30:39 pm
On awakening this morning, SaVannah was still at a comfortable 61F with exterior temps around 51.  One kero lantern running works to put out enough heat overnight to make a 9F gradient, adding in of course your body heat escaping from the sleeping bag.  I will install more permanent Hooks for lanterns and run up to four of them on cold nights.  This should cover me down into the 30sF, possibly 20s.  Colder than that, I go to the Catalytic Kero Heater. 

Maybe I missed this, but are you accounting for CO buildup?

I read in an earlier installment about the fan system you hooked up, but that was for cooling. Just wondering about ventilation with all those kero appliences.
Let's not do The Big Sleep too early.

The Van leaks too much air for CO to build up, especially running just one kero lamp.  CO only forms if there isn't enough O2 around for the combustion to be complete and form CO2.  Maybe if I was running all 4 it might be an issue, but I doubt it.  The kero catalytic heater is indoor safe and has a CO detector and automatic shut-off.  If that doesn't shut itself down, then 4 kero lamps definitely won't be producing CO in any great magnitude.  The heater puts out 8000 BTU.  A kero lamp?  Maybe 500 BTU.

I may buy a separate CO detector though just to get some numbers on this.

RE

I think that would be prudent. Your assumption that high oxygen availability guarantees complete combustion in a kerosene lamp is erroneous. I won't argue with you about how much oxygen is available. I'm sure you are okay in that regard.

Of course there is a gradient involved in the percentage of combustion products when the oxygen supply varies.

Of course a van is not as tight as a building, so CO poisoning is less likely. BUT you DO turn on the engine every now and then when it is parked  and a MASSIVE amount of CO comes out of that tail pipe and hangs around the van.

I had no tail pipe in my efficiency apartment and plenty of oxygen but I still almost bought the farm. My apartment was, of course, well insulated, unlike your van, which compounded my problem and lessens yours, but  I didn't have a tail pipe a few feet away.

So if you think that lamp of yours isn't putting out CO, talk to me again when you have bought the monitor.

Quote
500 ppm Often produced in garage when a cold car is started in an open garage and warmed-up for 2 minutes. (Greiner, unpublished, 1997).

800 ppm Dizziness, nausea and convulsions within 45 minutes. Unconsciousness within 2 hours. Death within 2-3 hours. Maximum air-free concentration from gas kitchen ranges (ANSI).

1600 ppm Headache, dizziness and nausea within 20 minutes. Death within 1 hour. Smoldering wood fires, malfunctioning furnaces, water heaters, and kitchen ranges typically produce concentrations exceeding 1,600 ppm.

3200 ppm Concentration inside charcoal grill (Greiner, single example). Headache, dizziness and nausea within 5-20 minutes. Quickly impaired thinking. Death within 30 minutes.

6400 ppm Headache, dizziness and nausea within 1-2 minutes. Thinking impaired before response possible. Death within 10-15 minutes.

12,800 ppm Death within 1-3 minutes.

(http://www.coolassparts.com/images/exhaust.jpg)

35,000 ppm
Measured tailpipe exhaust concentration from warm carbureted gasoline engines without catalytic converters.
(Greiner, unpublished field study, January 1997)

Many years ago I used kerosene lamps under banana plants to get them to flower quicker. It's a long story but there was PLENTY of oxygen in my back yard and i STILL was getting products of incomplete combustion.  Kerosene is called that because there are several different groups of long chained hydrocarbons in the mix. Some, as you know, burn faster than others...

Quote
Regardless of crude oil source or processing history, kerosene's major components are branched and straight chain alkanes and naphthenes (cycloalkanes), which normally account for at least 70% by volume. Aromatic hydrocarbons in this boiling range, such as alkylbenzenes (single ring) and alkylnaphthalenes (double ring), do not normally exceed 25% by volume of kerosene streams. Olefins are usually not present at more than 5% by volume.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene

In my yard I was goosing my plants with ethylene, the ripening hormone, but I knew there was some CO, CO2 and H2O coming out of that kerosene witches brew.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on July 04, 2017, 02:29:14 pm
Quote
OK, I'll pick up a CO monitor to get some numbers on this.  I am quite sure it is not a problem though, since Van Dweller is still alive after 50 years living this way.

RE

 (http://www.clker.com/cliparts/c/8/f/8/11949865511933397169thumbs_up_nathan_eady_01.svg.hi.png) (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-020617175335.png)

Just remember that in all those examples of CO concentration I quoted, the oxygen concentration was around normal atmosphere (about 21 to 23% if you aren't next to a refinery or in a traffic jam, of course  ;D).  So, even with 210,000 PPM of Oxygen, a mere 1,600 PPM of of CO from a kitchen stove can waste you in about an hour.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on August 03, 2017, 02:02:01 pm
Agelbert NOTE: RE lives in Alaska. He is writing to Palloy, who lives in a tropical jungle (populated by, among many different species, some interesting small mammal eating pythons). :o  :P

I went outside to smoke a Cancerette, and has been the case for the last few months on many days, it was raining.  Not hard rain, just a steady drizzle.

We had a summer here a few years ago like this, but the recent ones have been much more dry and sunny.  Generally speaking, such a summer is a good thing here, because the dry summers result in lots of Wildfires.  Wet summers reduce this danger.   Fire danger signs at all the parks now are at the BOTTOM level of LOW.  Nothing is likely to burn here at the moment, you would have to pour a **** load of kero on some piece of wood to get that one started.

As long as you have some shelter, a steady drizzle is not a real big issue.  On my porch, I have the shelter of the porch above me.  When in SaVANnah, I have the Big Brolly right now as well as an Awning for the Side door, although I have not tested that one out yet.  I also am working on the Geodesic Gazebo as a further addition.  Driving rain with a lot of wind attached to it is a bigger problem of course, but we don't get much of that here.  For that **** you basically gotta just hole up in the Van unless you do up a full blown dome, which I probably will not do.

Overall, having steady rainfall in your neighborhood is a GOOD thing, although it can be annoying as far as going out and enjoying nature is concerned.  The water feeds the crops and keeps the aquifer filled.  Too much of it and too much humidity as is the case in many Tropical Rainforest locations can of course be a problem also.  You get problems with Mold of course with too much dampness around all the time.  For me also, I just can't stand being Sweaty all the time, which you always are when it is hot & humid.  I prefer a climate with about a 60-70F average temp and about 20% humidity.  The climate here in the Matanuska-Susitna River Valley hits this target most of the time through the summer, although this one has been rainier than usual.

I just can't grasp why some people would choose to live in HOT & HUMID climates like the Tropical Rainforest, with lots of PYTHONS slinking about who want to make a meal out of your Kitty,  This makes no CFS to me. ???   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191404.bmp)

RE


I feel the same way. Having lived several years in the tropics, I got tired of feeling like a wet sponge most of the time. That's why I live in Vermont. The routine relative humidity here is between 40 and 60% in the summer (much less in the winter). That is comfortable climate to me.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on August 03, 2017, 07:51:37 pm
Agelbert NOTE: Azozeo lives in Arizona.

I merely stated my opinion that you can't live with predators on your property.

RE


I do....


There's a coon tail diamond back rattler that sets up shop by the water dish outside
around sunset waiting for field mice to come out after sunset. His name is Dillinger....

Kathy had to dispose of a tarantula last week. Bottled him up in a mason jar, took him up to the end of the street & set him free in the desert. Damn thing walked back down the street & was on the garage door the next night.

I picked up a baby scorpion of the rug in my room & gave him the tidy bowl challenge.

RE, It comes with the territory.

I'm surprised you don't get bears or moose wandering into town.
There all a bunch of moochs.

One of my friends showed me a vid he took of a whole herd of elk in his back yard eating the bread scraps set out for the birds.

Papa elk was a 12 pointer & he had six bitches with him. mmm mm mmmmmmm .....


Fascinating.  (http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/xig/ojx/xigojx6KT.png) I read somewhere that some people have trained Tarantulas to eat out of their hand. It seems they are smarter than they look.  ;D  I'll skip that experience, thank you very much.

As to what critters out there will eat, well, just about anything edible. I recently saw pictures (not photoshopped) of a deer with a strange looking "twig "in it's mouth. It was a human rib, as the human skeletal remains on the ground makes clear. The caption was "I didn't kill him. Please do not shoot".     (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif)

So it seems that herbivores will eat bones and meat, which probably does not do them any good at all. So if we get an epidemic of mad deer disease, you will know why.  :P

Photo without the gag caption:

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-030817192249.jpeg)
Its attention caught, a deer found eating a human corpse looks up, a rib dangling from its mouth.
Photograph courtesy Lauren A. Meckel/Academia

SNIPPET:

By Delaney Chambers

PUBLISHED May 7, 2017


In an unprecedented finding, researchers spotted a deer chewing on a human rib during a study aimed at examining how human remains decompose in the wild.


Scavengers take advantage of opportunities to eat, and carcasses left in the wild often decay quickly because animals can make quick work of the remains–even human remains.

Known as “body farms,” some research facilities study how human remains decompose in the open air, including which animals interact with the corpse.

Foxes, turkey vultures, raccoons, and other scavengers are commonly seen helping themselves to decomposing bodies. Researchers at the Forensic Anthropology Research Facility in San Marcos, Texas, set up a camera to see whether any other scavengers would stop by–and they were not disappointed.

Body Farm: It's a field filled with rotting corpses  :P. But no one is burying these bodies just yet.

In a study published this week in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, researchers highlighted their finding: Ungulates, too, will partake in human flesh, if it’s available.

White-tailed deer are considered herbivores and subsist on a diet of readily available plants, including twigs, fruits, nuts, alfalfa, and the occasional fungi. (Read more about the white-tailed deer.)

This is the first time scientists have observed deer eating human flesh, though they have been known to turn carnivorous in the past, eating fish, dead rabbits, and even live birds.

Deer may pursue flesh because they lack minerals like phosphorous, salt, and calcium, especially in the winter months when plant life is scarce.

Full article with more mouth watering pictures:   (http://www.netanimations.net/Frankenstein-looks-stares-and-blinks-animated-gif.gif)(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-070814193155.png)


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/05/deer-eating-human-forensics-decomposition/
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on December 16, 2017, 10:31:31 pm
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-161217204110.jpeg)
My Pine Grove home is 17 years old and still going strong! (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-260116191529.png)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on December 26, 2017, 08:19:38 pm
Not Your Grandfather's Trailer (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-250817121649.png)

https://youtu.be/exYDDNKvKRc

Not Your Grandfather's Trailer

Ray Doughty

Published on Jan 22, 2016

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on December 26, 2017, 10:11:28 pm
Agelbert NOTE: The video is a bit dated but the info is still valuable. Learn why manufactured homes are routinely a lot tighter than stick built homes. 8)

How It's Made Explores the Merits of a Factory-built home 

https://youtu.be/dI9WBDNQkYw

FleetwoodHomes Inc 

Published on Jan 2, 2013


http://fleetwoodhomes.com

Manufactured Homes
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on December 27, 2017, 03:02:50 pm
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-271217135300.png)

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-271217135637.png)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on December 27, 2017, 05:28:53 pm
The first video you posted would be what we call a manufactured home up here and they are more and more popular. They usually come as modules of any number necessary in all shapes and sizes. I've built frost walls for 2 of them. My part ended there. The second one is what I think of when I think trailer home or double wide. That one as shown was quite poor thermally but it was an old video and probably built for somewhere warm. One company I like is this one : http://www.canadabuilds.ca (http://www.canadabuilds.ca)
They are pretty cutting edge but pricey. I'll stop this here since LD probably cares not at all about our various views of home construction since this thread was originally about trucking.
Cheers, David B

David,
The only type of home I am are intested in discussing is a singlewide manufactured home. I agree that Canadabuilds makes a good home, but LD does not need that type of super insulation or high price per square foot. The whole idea of going for a manufactured home is to avoid the inflated, and totally unjustified, stick built price per square foot. The videos I posted both show advantages that stick built homes will never have.

My home is a Pine Grove. They make very good, but not pricy, manufactured homes. Here are the details on the construction standards and materials on a 3 bedroom 2 bath that they now make. These same standards are part of my 17 year old home. That said, they don't currently market to South Carolina (Pine Grove makes homes with strong roof load design for snow so LD probably would not want that home anyway). I present this home as an example of real world excellent quality equal to or greater than a stick built, but with a much lower price per square foot. I suggest you adjust your thinking and stop generalizing about manufactured home quality and price.

Pine Grove PA 17963
Phone: (570) 345-8600
Web: www.pinegrovehomes.com (http://www.pinegrovehomes.com)
3 Bedroom 2 bath singlewide made by Pine Grove: G16-612 - 16' X 76' - 1,165 SQ. FT.
http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/vault-single-section (http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/vault-single-section)

Pine Grove Homes is located in Pine Grove, Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania. Our homes are marketed throughout the northeast and mid-Atlantic regions of the United States.

For info on Pine Grove dealers near you and availability and price of the Pine Grove G16-612, fill in this contact info:
http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/contact/ (http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/contact/)

Standard Features for Pine Grove Homes
Interior
⦁   Complete Fabric Drapery Package with 2” Blinds or Sheers
⦁   Vinyl On Gypsum Wall Coverings Throughout
⦁   Residential Ceiling Fixtures in All Bedrooms
⦁   Switched Ceiling Light in All Walk-In Closets
⦁   Chandelier in Each Designated Dining Area
⦁   ½” Finished Drywall Cathedral Ceilings with Stipple Finish
⦁   Residential Wood Molding Profiles
⦁   Solid Oak Window Sills
⦁   25 oz. Textured Carpet Installed with Tack Strip & 5.5# Pad
⦁   No Wax Vinyl Flooring by Congoleum®
⦁   Pre-Hung 6-Panel Interior Doors Installed with 3 Hinges
⦁   Vinyl Clad Shelving in Closets and Pantries
⦁   Foyer Entry with Vinyl Flooring at Front Door

Cabinetry
⦁   KCMA Approved Cabinetry Built by Blue Mountain Cabinet Co.
⦁   Solid Oak Cabinets with ¾” Solid Oak Face Frames
⦁   Cabinet Crown on Overhead Cabinets
⦁   Concealed Cabinet Door Hinges
⦁   Drawer-Over-Door Base Cabinets
⦁   Metal Drawer Guide System
⦁   Designer Coordinated Door and Drawer Pulls
⦁   Adjustable Shelving in Overhead Cabinets
⦁   Shelving in All Base Cabinets

Utilities
⦁   Miller Direct Spark Gas Furnace with Metal Access Door
⦁   In-Floor Perimeter Heat System with Perimeter Diffusers
⦁   Insulated Fiberglass Heat Duct w/ Sealed Crossover Connection
⦁   40 Gallon Electric Water Heater with Drip Pan & Exterior Drain
⦁   PEX Hot & Cold Water Lines and Schedule 40 Drain Lines
⦁   Enclosed Water and Drain Lines
⦁   Plumbing for Washer
⦁   Wire and Vent for Dryer
⦁   Water Shut-Offs at All Fixtures
⦁   100 Amp Electric Service
⦁   Hard-Wired Smoke Alarms with Battery Back-Up
⦁   Copper Wiring Throughout
⦁   Switched Receptacle in Living Room
⦁   GFCI Protected Exterior Receptacle
⦁   GFCI Protected Receptacle(s) in Wet Areas

Kitchen
⦁   33” x 19” x 7” Deep Double Bowl Stainless Steel Sink
⦁   Peerless by Delta® Single Lever Faucet with Sprayer
⦁   Soffit Light Over the Sink (in most models)
⦁   Refrigerator Overhead Cabinets
⦁   Wilson Art® or Formica® Laminate Counter Tops, 25” Deep
⦁   4” Laminate Backsplash on All Counters (Ceramic Optional)
⦁   White 18 Cubic Foot Refrigerator
⦁   White 30” Free Standing Gas Range
⦁   White 30” Vented Range Hood with Light by Broan®

Codes
⦁   HUD Code
⦁   Energy Star Compliance
⦁   Thermal Zone III
⦁   Wind Zone I (Wind Zone II Available as an Option)
⦁   Green Certified (Available as an Option)

Bath
⦁   One-Piece Fiberglass Tub and Shower Units
⦁   36” High Oak Vanity Cabinets with China Sinks
⦁   Peerless by Delta® Single Lever Faucets on all Fixtures
⦁   Wilson Art® or Formica® Laminate Counter Tops
⦁   4” Laminate Backsplash on All Counters (Ceramic Optional)
⦁   Oak Medicine Cabinets and/or Mirror with 24” Strip Light
⦁   Broan® Lighted Exhaust Fan in Each Bath
⦁   1.6 Gallon Round Front Water Saver Commode
⦁   All Bath Fixtures are White

Exterior
⦁   Georgia Pacific® Dutch Lap Vinyl Siding
⦁   3/8” Wood Fiber Sheathing Installed Underneath Siding
⦁   Owens Corning® 3-Tab Fiberglass Roof Shingles
⦁   Eaveguard Ice and Water Shield
⦁   38x82 Residential Size Fiberglass 6-Panel Front Door, No Storm
⦁   38x82 Residential Size Fiberglass 2-Lite Rear Door, No Storm
⦁   Exterior Light at Each Entrance Door
⦁   Vinyl Thermopane “Low E” Single Hung Windows
⦁   12” Raised Panel Shutters on Front Door Side & Right Gable End
⦁   6” Fascia and Soffit
⦁   Ridge Vent

Construction
⦁   All Wall Studs, Trusses, & Floor Joists Installed 16” On-Center
⦁   40# Snow Load Roof Trusses
⦁   7/16” OSB Roof Sheathing
⦁   2x6 Graded Wall Studs
⦁   7’ 6”’ Sidewalls Standard (8’ Sidewalls are Available)
⦁   2x6 Floor Joists (28’ Wide) and 2x8 Floor Joists (32’ Wide)
⦁   2x6 Perimeter Joists
⦁   ¾” Tongue and Groove OSB Floor Decking
⦁   R-19 Fiberglass Wall Insulation
⦁   R-38 Blown-In Cellulose Ceiling Insulation
⦁   Combination of R-19 and R-27 Floor Insulation
⦁   Matewall Sealed with Double Center Seal Gasket
⦁   10” or 12” I-Beam Foundation Frame

Note: Any home receiving a site-built garage (or other structure) MUST meet all egress requirements for exterior doors. A third exit door may need to be installed in the home in order for it to be in full compliance. See below for more details.

All representations and descriptions of the Pine Grove product are believed to be accurate at the time of publication. Due to continual product improvement and changes in design, we cannot guarantee exact duplication of every product shown herein. Model availability and specifications may change without notice. Your Retailer, an independent contractor who is not an agent of Pleasant Valley Homes, is the party responsible for your purchase contract and any additions, deletions, alterations, or attachments made to or in your home.

Garage Notice:

Pine Grove manufactured homes are built to the standards as established by the manufactured housing HUD building code. Please note that any home that will have a site-built garage added to it will need to have three exterior doors in order to meet egress requirements as established by HUD (one which provides access to the garage and two which provide immediate access to the outside of the home). There are rules in place governing where these doors can be located within the homes and all designs will be subject to final approval from the engineering department to ensure that the home will be in full compliance following the addition of the site-built garage.

General:

All representations and descriptions of the Pine Grove Product are believed to be accurate at the time of publication. Due to continual product improvement and changes in design, we cannot guarantee exact duplication of every product shown herein. Model availability and specifications may change without notice. Your Retailer, an independent contractor, who is not an agent of Pine Grove Homes, is the party responsible for your purchase contract and any additions, deletions, alterations or attachments made to or in your home.
http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/standard-features/ (http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/standard-features/)

David, what you think of in any house is what you should think of in a manufactured home. There is no valid assumption about the level of insulation or lack of that merits your generalizations about double wides and so on. The following infographics are what you should be referencing when you think of manufactured homes in the USA. Please stop generalizing.

Manufactured Homes Quick Facts 1 of 2
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-271217135300.png)

Manufactured Homes Quick Facts 2 of 2
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-271217135637.png)




Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on December 28, 2017, 01:44:07 pm
I certainly won't complain about any of the well thought out advice and information that I get here on the Diner.  I value all of the experience, insight, knowledge, and expertise that I get here, and that is why I always come here with big decisions.  I respect everyone's opinion even when I do not agree (contrary to RE's assertion). 

On matter of what I'm going to do about a home...well...I'm currently up in the air with it.  What I do know is that I'm going to be mortgaging something.  I'm going to do that because that will result in a lot more for less to the same amount of money that I'd pay to live in an apartment here.  A decent apartment in my area will run about $900 a month in rent, and that would be the cheapest option that we'd care to live in.  While I'm aware that there are benefits to apartment living, such as low utilities bills and no responsibility on upkeep for appliances, plumbing, electrical, etc etc..., typically only one year lease agreements, and no mortgage.  I'm also aware, having lived in apartments for most of my life, that it also comes with shitty neighbors who make lots of noise and complain about ****, no land for gardening, no storage buildings for tools and such, next to no privacy outside of the dwelling, and a lot of time maintenance staff and admin who give less then two shits about anything other then getting the rent on time.  Even still, I'd be willing to live in an apartment...my wife however is not.  That takes apartment living off of the table for me.  Besides, I'd rather not rent because you pay more to rent then you do to mortgage. 

The only question left for me is what am I going to mortgage?  Currently I'm entertaining all options.  My bank told me I need a 680 for my credit score.  It's currently 650 and slowly rising.  Very slowly.  Those fuckers are a bunch of bastards and the credit score game is a loosing one if you are a consumer.  The rules make no sense unless you are a coked up banker.  I really don't care to play, but I have little choice in the matter. 

I'm game for the manufactured home if I can get one that's not a piece of ****.  Apparently that can be difficult but it's possible as Agelbert has demonstrated.  Currently I'm looking into stick built houses for sale as well as manufactured home options.  The main benefit for me, with a manufactured home, is that I can have one plopped down on my mom's 11 acres.  That is the most appealing option for me as finding a house is going to result in less land in a place that will likely not be as ideal.  120k is the max I'm willing to finance because it's the max I can afford on my current salary.  It's also the max I could afford to hustle to pay given I return to the gig economy.  Which is likely at some point. 

Another important tidbit on this entire discussion ties the thread together.  I went trucking to get us our own home.  I needed the W-2 to mortgage something.  Once I acquire said mortgage I may well decide that working for the man is now a waste of my time and return back to Ancient Earth Landscaping, bamboo, permaculture, and herbal medication  ;D 

Truckin' is likely a temporary strategy for me...although I am paying 4% into a 401k so...I'm keeping all of my options open. 




Good thinking.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png) Let me rephrase the only question left for you: How can you get the most bang for your decent and durable home buck?  ???(http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_1730.gif)

As you have realized, the credit score thing is a perverse game that lenders play. It is a perverse game because they PRETEND that all they care about is your ability to pay. That is a half-truth at best and normally a total lie. All they REALLY care about is whether they can make money off your collateral if they are in a position to foreclose on said collateral.

As I mentioned in the latest PM, lenders are risk averse. If they see the risk is low, they then go to the next step of fun and games. That is the credit rating fun and games they use to do TWO things:
1) Tell you how much principal they will lend you.
2) Tell you what interest rate you must pay according to your "credit" score.

WHY do I say that the above are pervese, fact free fun and games? Because they have access to capital for lending that DOES NOT EXIST in the real world. It is invented out of whole cloth. Lenders are the parasites of the fractional reserve, ex nihilo money creation world. What they are "risking" is ALWAYS MUCH LESS than the assessed value of the property they are lending you money (less than 50% all the way to about 10%) for. But enough of my rant.  ;D

I learned there is a bit of a buyers market near you down in Lugoff for repossessed stick built homes. I don't know a thing about Lugoff, SC, but you probably do. There are probably some excellent deals down there, if you are inclined to live there.  8)

Back to the lenders: P.I.T.I. (Principal Interest Taxes Insurance) for your home monthly payment is the bottom line number that you want to limit to 25% of monthly income, as well as limiting the total home principal to 2.5 times your annual income.

Every day that you are alive on planet Earth is another day that, although some here argue otherwise  ;), you ARE paying P.I.T.I., whether you rent or "own". The idea, as you have realized, is to make do and be able to save a reasonable amount each month.

I'm working on the lender picture. I'll get back to you. You are doing fine. Rome was not built in a day. 
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on December 28, 2017, 05:07:05 pm
Agelbert NOTE: This home is 17 years old. However, they added a new roof in 2014. That means that they did not have serious mold or other problems with the structure at that time, or they would have just tried to replace it or sell it then. Provided the roof was done properly (metal is better than asphalt shingle, but either one done properly should last at least 20 years), this home on a half acre is a great deal.  :icon_sunny:

If the roof was not done properly, this home is a problem home. I would have an inspector look over this home from top to bottom with a fine tooth comb. It's worth the money the inspector will charge. Also, the realtor states that this is a "motivated" seller. This can mean the owner wants to move soon due to job issues OR the home is rapidly deteriorating. There can be other reasons for a person being "motivated" (realtor parlance for "they'll consider a lower offer"), but I think the ones I mentioned are generally applicable to manufactured home owners. I looked at it in Google Earth and it does not appear to be manufactured home. Yet, the picture in the Trulia web site looks like that of a manufactured home (It appears to have skirting). You be the judge.  8)

All that said, if you don't mind the sound of a train going by routinely ;D, this looks like a nice family home.

2386 Green Hill Rd
 Lugoff, SC 29078   3 beds
 •2 baths
 •1,440 sqft
 •0.50 acres lot size
 •Single-Family Home
 

For Sale  $46,900  Est. Mortgage $280/mo 

Home Details



Single-Family Home
3 Beds
2 Baths
Built in 2000
23 days on Trulia

0.50 acres lot size
1,440 sqft
$33/sqft
182 views

Description

Investor alert! 3bd/2ba home in Lugoff. New roof 2014. Walk in closet in all bedrooms. Kitchen appliances to remain. Great Investment. Motivated Seller.  ;)
 
https://www.trulia.com/property/5033377792-2386-Green-Hill-Rd-Lugoff-SC-29078 (https://www.trulia.com/property/5033377792-2386-Green-Hill-Rd-Lugoff-SC-29078)

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on December 28, 2017, 05:13:18 pm
Lugoff versus Spartanburg, SC living costs are about the same:


Agelbert NOTE: It appears that the Lugoff buyers market is a recent phenomenon because the stats. show Lugoff as slightly more costly for housing than Spartanburg (though they are both SUPER affordable (http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg) : compared to the USA as a whole).

                 Spartanburg, SC            Lugoff, SC    United States
 Overall                                     86                          84                   100
 Grocery                                 105.2                       99.9                  100
 Health                                     99                          86                    100
 Housing                                     53                          60                   100
 Utilities                                     92                        103                   100
 Transportation                           97                        87                   100
 Miscellaneous                          104                       100                   100

http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/lugoff_sc/spartanburg_sc/costofliving

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on January 14, 2018, 04:49:04 pm
If you think it all ends here, you will consider risking your life to save a stranger an irrational act, period.(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)
 

I was faced, one day at a beach family outing when I was 34 with 2 small children, with a life or death situation. My dentist brother in law, an expert swimmer and scuba diver, was drowning in a rip current and 14 ft high wave breakers.

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-290714210517.png)

It was afternoon and my sister had scolded her hubby because he was reading a book on dental practice instead of "playing with his children like my brothers do". John wasn't feeling too great that day but he responded to the henpecking by going in. I had noticed that the tide was going out and some rather large "lumps" on the water surface indicating rapid current (about 8 inches high in otherwise calm water in a tide pool) were visible and I said, "It looks kind of rough out there".

He said he could handle it and it would be okay. My sister just looked at me crossly. John went in and was playing with some kind of raft with his kids that would just reach the surf at the edge of the opening in the tide pool lagoon and swing back in.

I knew that dynamic was going to change and the outgoing tide would soon try to suck anyone near the reef opening at the edge of the tide pool lagoon (about 50 yards from shore) into the surf and rip tide. I told my wife to gather up the kids and keep them out of the water. I sat on the beach while John began to drown.

My 36 year old brother and Vietnam vet, Larry, who had supported John in this dangerous game when I appeared concerned, now froze on the shore with a worried look on his face. Somebody grabbed the small raft his 8 year old son was on and managed to get it to shore (it was some good samaritan with red hair in the water that we never did talk to later).

Larry, over his momentary paralysis and spurned to action, ran up to me and said we had to get John. He had a big of piece of driftwood for floatation. He rushed to the shore and waited for me as the seconds ticked by and John was floundering, unable to swim to shore.

I stood there a second and thought to myself, "You know, you are going to die out there." I answered my own thought , "If I stay here, I'll never be able to live with myself so God will have to decide if I make it through this or not". The fear was momentary and rational. I dispensed with it with a practice I had of sticking to my principles come hell or high water. It wasn't heroics, it was habit. And BABY, this was HIGH WATER!

My wife later said we looked like children in the waves because they were so big. So Larry and I hyperventilated for about 20 seconds to get some extra oxygen in our lungs and dove in. My bro lost the driftwood in the turbulent water (just as well - it could have bopped us on the head and killed us). We got to John lickity split. Getting to him was like being on a river in the right direction.

Of course when we got to him, we had to turn around and try to hold his head above water. The moment we reached him and I said, "We've got you, John", he gave up. His head went under and I was under too and watched bubbles coming out of his mouth and his body totally relaxed. We pulled him up only to be slammed by the most god-awful monstrous wave power I have ever experienced. My femur bones were being bent by the force of the turbulence! My fear returned with some terror thrown in. We had to fight to get back up to the surface only to be slammed back down by a new breaker. All the while we were trying to swim to shore and getting weaker. After one particularly powerful wave, I looked at my brother and yelled, "We're going to DIE out here!". Larry yelled, "A man has to think of himself!".

Our only chance to make it to shore was to let John go. We did. I glimpsed him floating away underwater. That was the most heart tearing, sad and anguished moment of my life all wrapped up into one desperate attempt to survive with my principles intact.

We began swimming to shore with the waves still sending us down a couple of seconds after surfacing. The salt water mixing with my breathing felt like fire burning my throat trachea. The people on shore didn't get closer. I lost sight of Larry. I was yelling "Praise the Lord" even as I ran out of energy in those brief moments on the surface.

Larry, much stronger than me and an agnostic, was concentrating on getting back to shore by cursing the ocean, the waves , the current and whatever else he could think of to keep himself "mad enough" to keep fighting for his life (I learned this from him later as I could not hear him in the tumult at the time).

About 15 minutes into this ordeal, I lost all my energy. I couldn't speak and I couldn't swim. I would send the commands to my arms and legs and they just WOULD NOT MOVE! I was in very good shape at that time of my life and had no muscle cramps or anything like that. I sank into the depths.

I made myself a promise that, even though I was sure to drown, I would absolutely refuse to breathe until my autonomic response kicked in after losing consciousness; I wasn't going to DO that burning throat thing any longer (later on my doctor said that saved my life but I'm not so sure). I began "breathing" by pushing the air in my mouth into my lungs and back. I thought of my wife and kids and asked God to take care of them.

I was totally convinced I was a goner. For some reason, I stopped feeling that urgency to breathe. Perhaps it was something like the nitrogen narcosis that divers get but that only happens at depth with scuba gear. I think the Guy upstairs gave me a break here (You know, that "sky God" so many people these days don't believe in).  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp) 

I became quite relaxed, still unable to move and my surroundings got darker. I figure I was about 20 feet down when I felt some rocky bottom passing under my right toe. The force of the waves was slight here but my movement with the current was plainly felt. This woke me from my torpor.

I concentrated on my foot and tried with all my might to flex my foot and anchor my toe on the reef surface below. It worked and I cut my toe. This woke me up more. I still, believe it or not, did not need to breathe. I waited for the current to shift direction and slid along the bottom with the top of my right foot. When the current flipped again, I would anchor my toe on the reef. I did this 5 or six times. The only part of me that I tried to move was my right foot and toe. I still did not have the strength or muscle coordination to swim. It was getting shallower (warmer water) and my surroundings lighter.

All of a sudden the water got murkier and the bottom hard to hold because it was sandy instead of rocky and, like a submarine surfacing, my head popped out of the water.

Now a normal person takes a deep breath here, right? Not me. I was in terror of losing my grip on the bottom (it was sandy with no toe holds) so I plunged back under to "hold position" until the current shifted. I had glimpsed my sister yards away and I realized I was on the shore so I weakly and carefully stood up, breathed in deep and vomited my guts out.

I raised my head and stared into my sister's eyes. She looked at me and said, "You tried". John died that day. I ended up fishing Larry out as he was cursing his way in (We lay him on the beach and he was okay after about 20 minutes) and keeping John's teenage kid (he had two of his kids there that day) from drowning by trying to fish his father's body out.

We got the body as it managed to float a ways away from the rip tide and bump up against the far end of the tidal pool reef. We did CPR to no avail; he had a pulse from my pushing on his sternum while my sister (a registered nurse) cleared the air passage and breathed into his lungs but we gave up when the ambulance got there about 20 minutes later; he was a solid blue color (John was very fair and redheaded). Not a good day.

The point of this experience I am relating is that we need to get our priorities straight in this country. WTF are we willing to die for? What are our principles? I know what mine are, who my boss is, and where I'm going when I leave this valley of tears. That guides me in my decision making.

As a pilot I learned that you HAVE TO think about trouble all the time, plan what you will do when or if it comes and PRACTICE it in your brain. Then relax and go on about your life. Otherwise you will learn by hard experience why a coward dies a thousand deaths.

Be true to your principles and you will sleep better at night and be an asset to humanity and God.

My rant is for anyone here that hasn't thought this through. I'm in the moral imperative faith based camp.

More Background:

I had events occur in my life that kept me alive miraculously when I should have gotten killed. I did not pray to avoid getting smacked by a car that ran a red light without lights on at night while my brother Larry was saying "It's not going to get any greener" to me from the back seat of the car while I sat there like a bump on a log for NO REASON WHATSOEVER!

I didn't spend 10 to 15 minutes underwater refusing to breathe and come out of it because I'm superman; it just happened and I wrote about it in detail here some time ago. Sure, I was praising the Lord and thanking Him for "rescuing" me while I was drowning trying to fish my brother in law dentist (who drowned) from the surf but it was my foot moving me along the bottom for those 10 to 15 minutes or so that got me to the beach because I could barely move my arms and had to concentrate just to dig one toe into the rocky bottom. God made me work for that one!

While totaling a car, the seat belt caused my rib cage to rotate approximately 10 degrees or so. I fully expected to die and had no desire whatsoever to stick around as I lay in a field gasping for air.

I did not pray or ask to be miraculously healed but nevertheless, AFTER the doctor at the ER had decided to do an exploratory on me to see how damaged I was inside, everything just POPPED into place X-ray room just before the body cavity/chest X-ray prior to the operation. The doctor cancelled the operation after seeing the x-ray. Apparently nothing was broken. You studied medicine (this comment was originally made to a doctor). How many times have you heard of rib cage rotation along the sternum that just pops back into position? How about the spleen? In violent car crashes it is almost always ruptured.

I lost consciousness gasping for air at the hospital with everything going round and round. When I woke up I was still gasping and being rolled into x-ray when all kinds of bubbling noises came from my chest.

I addressed God in my mind and said, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!? Something or someone said, also in my mind, I"M FIXING YOU. My reaction was of chagrin. I was convinced I was DONE here and now I had to live in this HELL HOLE some more.

Now you can call that a faith based miraculous healing if you want but if you do I will say that you are fooling yourself. The "power" of your mind in Faith isn't going to have you or anybody else walking on water anytime soon. All this stuff and nonsense about each one of us being a little god and able to do miracles just by tuning in to some zen power or mind focus is simply magical thinking. As to JC's quote about moving mountains, mustard seed and Faith, He was talking about rocket fuel for evangelizing (fishing humans), not habitually violating the laws of physics.

My belief in Christ is EVIDENCE based. RE thinks I fancy myself "privileged" to have these experiences. I consider myself incredibly stubborn; so much so that God decided that I am so dense that He had to show me some evidence before I would believe. He doesn't do that to most people because most people aren't that dense, period.

And no, I'm not going to detail all the weird and wonderful stuff I have witnessed to you because some reader here might think I'm inventing it just to prove some metaphysical bullshit I believe in. Sorry, I'm about as hard nosed about cause and effect as any other scientist out there.

I once put a guy in jail because I refused to back down on my court testimony after witnessing a car he lost control of drive over and kill a street vendor. Despite receiving death threats, I said, fu ck it, it's the right thing to do so I'M GOING TO DO IT.  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)

Everything I witnessed about God doing His thing here and there was rigorously questioned and fact checked moment by moment by me. I was NOT looking for anything but an excuse to NOT believe there is a supreme being that intercedes in the lives of people on this planet in a personal manner.

But the observed events and facts said otherwise. Sure, I have Faith NOW, but I didn't do anything to earn it. It really IS, as the bible says, a gift.

P.S. Larry, my brother who's idea it was to go to that beach that day in the first place, AND who had the "bright" idea of running the current, which eventually caused the drowing death of John Adair, my brother-in-law, has methodically and self servingly lied about his role in the above tragedy. Larry is a serial liar, an adulterer and a crook. If you have been told a different version of any of the above events by him, where he coincidentally appears to be the big hero and I appear as the wimp, you are being lied to. Larry was the chief architect of the theft of my inheritance after our mother, then our father, died. He and all my siblings who joined with him in a conspiracy to steal my inheritance got away with it temporarily.

 
(https://ofcommonsense.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/free-choice-not-consequences.jpg)

Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on January 15, 2018, 02:28:49 pm
Quote from: AG
My rant is for anyone here that hasn't thought this through. I'm in the moral imperative faith based camp.

Gee, ya think?

Great stories.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)

It's a good day to recall the words of MLK, Jr.:


(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-time-is-always-right-to-do-what-is-right-martin-luther-king-15-89-98.jpg)
(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif)

Quote
“We as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values… when machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered.” -- Martin Luther King, Jr. April 4, 1967

Agelbert confession: My goal in life is to be as "maladjusted" as Martin Luther King Jr. was. I admit that I am still a work in VERY slow progress, but I am not confused by Mammon worshipping cults about what is really important in life and what is damning to life.

"Maladjusted" Martin Luther King Jr.
https://youtu.be/zXEIYpnlxbw

Quote
Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif)

Luke 12:30-34

30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.


34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 19, 2018, 07:01:11 pm
Agelbert's  Mini-Catamarran Folly

Posted May 19, 2018

I promised to write about this a while ago. 😇 Today, I'll see if I can set my experience down in print.  ;)  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-291217164030.png)

Way back in 1975 I was an air traffic controller who had FINALLY gotten through three years of grueling training to reach the journeyman radar controller level. I lived in a simple $26,000 home I had bought in 1972. Now that I didn't have to worry about being washed out by some bigots from Indiana on my ATC crew (they had moved back to the "world" after their two year tour of fun and games with Puerto Ricans) in the FAA, I had a bit of time on my hands on weekends...

Idleness is the devil's workshop, they say. I don't know about that. Sometimes doing stuff gets you into a whole lot more trouble...

(http://pm1.narvii.com/5869/6a64193d6770c3afd17406c78686c0eda32ded1c_hq.jpg)

You see, I didn't know beans about sailboats (that hasn't changed much  :D). I have related here about my mishap on a 34' sailboat my airline pilot brother bought.

I hated sailboats. I said I would not get in one again until they had gimbled cabins. :icon_mrgreen: Going sideways was not my idea of getting from point A to point B in a boat. BUT, I had observed that there is a sailboat type out there that did not go sideways. 🧐 This is called a catamarran. Yes, the smaller ones like the Hobie Cat can have a pontoon get airborne if you are not careful. But, generally speaking, they do not go sideways. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)

So, I decided to build one. I mean, how hard could it be? I had an airplane pilot's license with single, multi-engine and instrument commercial (plus flight and ground instructor tickets) ratings in addition to knowing how to add and subtract, so what's the big deal with sailboats? Why do they cost so much? I looked at all the sandwich fiberglass stuff and keel weight and hull speed design and all that.  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418202829.png) BORING...

Also, I wasn't going to spend all kinds of money and rile up the (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418201903.png) neighborhood (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418201722.png)by building a big boat in my yard. Besides. I was on a budget and didn't want to spend more than a hundred bucks or so. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-220216203149.gif)

But all that said, I wish to be brutally honest with you. I had an excess pontoon problem. (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-250817122018.gif)

Now, what in tarnation is an "excess pontoon" problem?

You see, my airline pilot brother (Gilbert - he is seven years older than I am so I had the mistaken idea that he knew what he was doing) had decided on a get rich quick scheme. This involved marketing Aquaskims.
Aquaskims are pontoons that you put your feet into like giant shoes and swish over the water with.

Gilbert thought they would make a great replacement for dingies that sailboat owners used while they are anchored to get to shore for suppllies. This was a really dumb idea for many reasons but Gilbert didn't think so.

Gilbert claimed Aquaskims were more portable than a dingy and lots of people would love them just to walk on water. So, he bought a BUNCH of them. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)

No, it wasn't for the "volume" discount. You see, they would not sell him one or two pairs. He had to buy a sufficient quantity to fill a 40' long standard shipping container.  :P

You can put a lot of them in a 40' shipping container.

Gilbert thought they would sell like hotcakes. They didn't. Despite our best efforts to sell them here and there, people had trouble maintaining their balance so they did not go for them.

Aquaskims were made of foam with some plastic flaps beneath to help you move over the water surface. I practiced a lot on a lake with them. You need strong legs and a keen ability to balance. You have to keep your center of gravity in exactly the right place or you flop into the water. Getting back on is impossible once you are in the water, even if the water is dead calm.

In ocean conditions with any wave action whatsoever, it is impossible even to walk on them. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp)

I nearly made it all the way across the Condado Lagoon (coastal ocean lagoon about a quarter mile wide with fairly flat seas) as a publicity stunt but fell in the water a few feet short of the dock.  Below is a picture of the Condado Lagoon:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Vista_Condado-Miramar.jpg/1200px-Vista_Condado-Miramar.jpg)

I started out from the dock next to the third building (left to right) towards the ocean side of the lagoon and walked to nearly where that obelisk thing is now on the near side.

My legs just kept opening (doing a split) and I no longer had the strength to keep them together. The muscles you use to do this are almost totally NOT used when walking or running on the ground because the friction of your feet with the ground keeps your legs from sliding apart. Slip-sliding on water to move forward on pontoons is very slippery business. We got a few sales that day but nothing to brag about.

People found it was dangerous to try to get into them in a swiming pool because if you fell sideways or backwards you could hit your head on the pool concrete side. Sailboat owners could not easily carry groceries in bags while balancing on the Aquaskims, even in dead calm waters. I could carry stuff but it was tricky. What I would do to try to sell somebody is that I push a 14' Boston Whaler I owned off a dock at the Levittown lake and let it go out 50' or so. I would then get on the aquaskims, walk to the boat, and tow it back in with a rope. People were not impressed.

I had already tried water skiing with them. THAT was nightmare! The pontoons want to go anyway but straight (those fat foam hulls zig and zag continuously  :() when the boat towing you tries to pick up to normal speed. Of course you can be towed along at 5 mph. :D That is something you certainly can't do with regular water skies, but I was pretty sure that wouldn't catch on as a fad. People like to go fast and all that.  8)

Gilbert's get rich quick sheme was dead.

Guess who was elected to store most of them?

So, as you can see, I had an excess Aquaskim pontoons problem.

This is when I got the strange idea that you could make a tiny catamarran with the Aquaskims.

Experienced sailors know something I was not too clear on (to put it mildly). Sailboats need TWO, not just one, connnection with the water beneath them in order to steer them AGAINST the wind.

Yeah, you need a sail. However, the sail just creates leverage on the mast to move the boat with the wind, period. If you stick a rudder in the water you will not get the boat to point in the direction you want to go unless you have something in the water for the rudder to exert leverage on. That thing is called a keel or a centerboard in a normal sailboat.

In a catamarran it's a bit more complicated. The pontoons can be a sort of a leverage point, but they have to be sticking well into the water and they need a certain design (as in the Hobie Cat). Aquaskims are rounded and stubby. They are designed for maximum floatation. This is no good for leverage traction in the water.

But I hadn't figured that out yet. Experience is really a very good teacher.  :laugh:

I had all these pontoons and I needed to make somehting with them. I figured a cheap mini-cat would sell and I could get rid of all those pontoons I was storing.

So, being a methodical fellow (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418200018.png)(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-050616182935.png), I went to a hardware store and bought a bunch of PVC pipe, a grommet kit, some grommets, "sail" cloth (blue shower curtain plastic), some eye screws and some cord and began my project. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png)

This is what those Aquaskims look like:

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-190518183845.png)

I made this PVC frame with some patio furniture straps for the deck: The four support points beneath would be just pushed into the pontoons through the top foam.
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-190518155055.png)

Next I added the rudder and began attaching the rigging eye screws.

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-190518155139.png)

I then grommeted the sail and attached it to the PVC mast with line and some rigging to be able to raise and lower it. The PVC large pipe ring at the top of the mast could be raised or lowered with the line through the eye screws. I know, VERY CRUDE. But that system actually worked. True, I only took the boat out once and none of this rigging (or any other part of this PVC mess contraption) was built to last, but it goes to show you how cheap you can really go in a pinch.  :D   

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-190518155222.png)

Finished with my Mini-Catamarran Agelbert Folly, I took it to the Levittown lake for a shakedown cruise.

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-190518155258.png)

I lowered into it from the concrete dock and sat in the middle, more or less. You've got to do that so the pontoons don't upend in the front. The pontoons sat a little lower than I expected in the water.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-220216203149.gif) Well, I had a bathing suit on so having a wet ass was no problemo.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png)

Of course I considered that my ass dragging through the water would slow me down a bit, but I was not going to sweat the small stuff. Onward and forward! (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418201112.png)

I raised the sail, held the boom position with my right hand with an attached line and held the rudder with my left hand. The wind was behind me so I moved off the dock and enjoyed running with the wind. (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311017193926.png)

I said to myself, IT WORKED!   (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418194321.png)

I was wrong. Eddie can tell you all the stuff I did wrong, but I will mention a few.  :-[

When I tried to tack, I could not tack. The boat just slid along sideways, no matter what I did with the rudder. I could run with the wind and slightly at an angle, but that was it. I needed a keel of some sort. I did not have it.

Also, had the wind been any stronger than the light breeze I had that day, the PVC thin mast would have bent too much or broken. I had some rigging to keep it steady (not shown in my 3D sketchup file screenshots - I had a line on either side to the frame), but it was not enough for the stiffness needed to propel the boat in a reasonable wind.

My sailboat would not tack.👎 The mast was wiggly.  :P The mini-cat was a failure. :-[ I was stuck with a lot of pontoons.  :(

But, it was quite educational. (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-250817121424.gif) I hope you enjoyed this anecdote.

We live and we learn. (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6869.gif)
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 25, 2018, 09:48:30 pm
For AG. Just A Reminder of Days Gone By

My youngest brother, the rich(er) one, is now partners in a King Air. My other brother, the one who has the auto shop, has now decided he wants a plane too. Part of this is the decadent wish they both have to fly to Alabama on Fridays now to tailgate before my nephew's college games. I know, I know. But they're from Texas, and Alabama is the Numero Uno college team in the US.

The mechanic brother is very technically competent and is thinking about building some fast four-seater experimental from a kit. But since he's been looking at planes, I've been looking too, not that I ever plan to fly anything. The missus has a very low opinion of general aviation aircraft, and she talked me out of it many years ago now. (We once knew somebody who crashed and killed himself and one of his kids.)

But I saw this the other day and thought of you.

(http://www.airplanemart.com/uploaded_images/1432616253-573192495.JPG)

I also wanted to tell you that when we landed at Beef Island last month I counted an even dozen boats still derelict on the beach over near the ferry dock. Seven months later.

Thanks for the info about Beef island.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)
 

Yep, that's a Piper Colt (flying brick) with the 108 horsepower engine. You know, some of them were modified to use flaps. They originally did not have them. The purpose of flaps is not what the non-pilot thinks they are for. Most people think flaps are on a plane to help it fly slower for landing. That is true for fast jet aircraft. BUT, for general aviation aircraft, the purpose of flaps is to steepen the glide path without increasing the airspeed. On a Piper Colt, which has the glide path of a rock  ;D, flaps are not needed.

As to your agreement with your wife not to learn to fly because of the death of a person you knew and his kid, the Wright Brothers once said that the properly designed aircraft would "glide gently to the ground in the event of a power failure". (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-220216203149.gif)

It didn't quite work out that way but light aircraft are really much safer than cars, especially in Texas! (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-250817121424.gif)

Consider that in Texas, where you and/or your brother will do most of their flying, ANY power failure will result in a a power off glide at about 75 mph and 700 feet per minute rate of descent. That is what you do every time you land one of those babies.

Unlike Vermont, Texas is pretty flat and has miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles with LOTS of roads. As long as you don't hit a cow, a power transmission tower or a wind turbine, you should walk away from any forced landing.

What gets people killed in light aircraft is mostly an inadvertent stall near the ground (I am talking about an aerodynamic condition called a stall, not an engine failure type stall). What happens is that they are near the ground and they make a skidding turn (pushing he rudder too hard because they don't want to bank the wings steeply in a coordinated, rudder plus aileron - like you are supposed to ALWAYS do, way). The inside wing loses its abilty to fly (stalls) while the oustide (of the turn) wing keeps flying.

This results in the inside wing dropping hard down (remember this pilot is near the ground and is standing on the rudder (toward the inside wing, making the drop more severe) too much already in that turn.

The plane enters a spin at about 500 feet above the ground (You cannot recover from a spin in less than 1000 feet above the ground). The aircraft strikes the ground at a high angle and usually the pilot is killed the same way a person is killed if they drive into a wall above 50 mph.

I understand your reticence and caution. Just tell your bro that if he has to make a forced landing, DON'T try to keep from dinging he aircraft by turning to reach a road when all the terrain is mostly flat or rolling hills. Just set up a normal glide STRAIGHT AHEAD (into the wind if possible).

When he is almost at ground level, round out (pull back slightly on the stick) to stop the descent and then flair out (pull back on the stick all the way when the plane no longer wants to fly). This ensures that he will make ground contact with the bushes or whatever at the slowest possible speed (about 50 to 60 mph).

If he is going into a forest, put the plane between two trees. The wings get ripped off and you slow quite quickly. I've flown over Texas. Yeah, you've got all kinds of terrain and East Texas is quite different from West Texas. BUT, trees are not an issue there 99% of the time.  ;D n

One more thing: The Beechcraft King Air is an unforgiving (due to the high performance type wing) aircraft. You stay in the proper aircaft envelope or you are toast.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 27, 2018, 01:57:49 pm
My youngest brother, the rich(er) one, is now partners in a King Air. My other brother, the one who has the auto shop, has now decided he wants a plane too. Part of this is the decadent wish they both have to fly to Alabama on Fridays now to tailgate before my nephew's college games. I know, I know. But they're from Texas, and Alabama is the Numero Uno college team in the US.

The mechanic brother is very technically competent and is thinking about building some fast four-seater experimental from a kit. But since he's been looking at planes, I've been looking too, not that I ever plan to fly anything. The missus has a very low opinion of general aviation aircraft, and she talked me out of it many years ago now. (We once knew somebody who crashed and killed himself and one of his kids.)

But I saw this the other day and thought of you.

(http://www.airplanemart.com/uploaded_images/1432616253-573192495.JPG)

I also wanted to tell you that when we landed at Beef Island last month I counted an even dozen boats still derelict on the beach over near the ferry dock. Seven months later.

Thanks for the info about Beef island.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)

Yep, that's a Piper Colt (flying brick) with the 108 horsepower engine. You know, some of them were modified to use flaps. They originally did not have them. The purpose of flaps is not what the non-pilot thinks they are for. Most people think flaps are on a plane to help it fly slower for landing. That is true for fast jet aircraft. BUT, for general aviation aircraft, the purpose of flaps is to steepen the glide path without increasing the airspeed. On a Piper Colt, which has the glide path of a rock  ;D, flaps are not needed.

As to your agreement with your wife not to learn to fly because of the death of a person you knew and his kid, the Wright Brothers once said that the properly designed aircraft would "glide gently to the ground in the event of a power failure". (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-220216203149.gif)

It didn't quite work out that way but light aircraft are really much safer than cars, especially in Texas! (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-250817121424.gif)

Consider that in Texas, where you and/or your brother will do most of their flying, ANY power failure will result in a a power off glide at about 75 mph and 700 feet per minute rate of descent. That is what you do every time you land one of those babies.

Unlike Vermont, Texas is pretty flat and has miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles with LOTS of roads. As long as you don't hit a cow, a power transmission tower or a wind turbine, you should walk away from any forced landing.

What gets people killed in light aircraft is mostly an inadvertent stall near the ground (I am talking about an aerodynamic condition called a stall, not an engine failure type stall). What happens is that they are near the ground and they make a skidding turn (pushing he rudder too hard because they don't want to bank the wings steeply in a coordinated, rudder plus aileron - like you are supposed to ALWAYS do, way). The inside wing loses its abilty to fly (stalls) while the oustide (of the turn) wing keeps flying.

This results in the inside wing dropping hard down (remember this pilot is near the ground and is standing on the rudder (toward the inside wing, making the drop more severe) too much already in that turn.

The plane enters a spin at about 500 feet above the ground (You cannot recover from a spin in less than 1000 feet above the ground). The aircraft strikes the ground at a high angle and usually the pilot is killed the same way a person is killed if they drive into a wall above 50 mph.

I understand your reticence and caution. Just tell your bro that if he has to make a forced landing, DON'T try to keep from dinging he aircraft by turning to reach a road when all the terrain is mostly flat or rolling hills. Just set up a normal glide STRAIGHT AHEAD (into the wind if possible).

When he is almost at ground level, round out (pull back slightly on the stick) to stop the descent and then flair out (pull back on the stick all the way when the plane no longer wants to fly). This ensures that he will make ground contact with the bushes or whatever at the slowest possible speed (about 50 to 60 mph).

If he is going into a forest, put the plane between two trees. The wings get ripped off and you slow quite quickly. I've flown over Texas. Yeah, you've got all kinds of terrain and East Texas is quite different from West Texas. BUT, trees are not an issue there 99% of the time.  ;D

One more thing: The Beechcraft King Air is an unforgiving (due to the high performance type wing) aircraft. You stay in the proper aircaft envelope or you are toast.

My bro did say that his teachers have told him that landing in trees in an emergency is not a bad plan. In Deep East Texas there aren't many of the wider open spaces we have here. There are some where the land has been cleared for pasture. It once was a temperate rain forest with lots of old growth timber. Before my time.

When I was a kid the only thing left of the lumber boom was abandoned sawmill ponds...and sawdust, which apparently can last for a long, long time if the piles are big enough. Now it's all tangled up 2nd growth you can't walk through easily. But not quite as bad as the Caribbean.

Thanks for the primer on stalls. I had heard of stalls, of course, but you explained it better than I've heard it explained before. Now I want to find a utoob vid, maybe an animation that shows what you described. It sounds like a typical rookie mistake. Like sailing.

But in a boat, rookie mistakes are less likely to kill you.

My oldest younger bro will be a decent pilot, probably. I didn't even know the youngest was a pilot. Not sure on him, as far as how much I'd trust his instincts. I didn't know about the King Air until the older one mentioned it. They flew to all the Alabama home football games last fall. I love 'em both, but don't get up there much since Mom passed. They're quite a bit younger than I. Eight and ten years younger.

I walked at least half the roads in Virgin Gorda and we rented a car one day and saw the rest. I'm glad we did. We were staying by the Baths, which is pretty convenient to walk to Spanish Town, but not to the far north end. That part, where most of the rich people live (like Leverick Bay) was beset by tornados, and the damage was worse than the typical roof-blown-off situation I saw in most other areas. There, houses were randomly chosen for complete demolition by mother nature.

It was the first time I've been in the Caribbean right after a major hurricane. What struck me was the extreme random nature of the damage, where one house is intact and the next one is totally destroyed. Makes me glad I got out before it hit. I still want to write a blog about it. I took a ton of photos. My dear partner didn't understand why I'm more interested in documenting  storm damage than I am in taking pics of batholiths and beaches.  LOL..


Yes, hurricanes are weird. I was in Puerto Rico when Hurricane Hugo hit. There was a lot of strange stuff to see. some farmers had seen cows flying during the high wind conditions. The tropical rain forest at El Yunque looked like God had given it a crew cut. It's even worse now after Maria. And like you said, it's these little tornadoes in the event that give the uneven damage effects. It will get worse, I'm sure. All those rich folks down there need underground shelters well above sea level from now on. 

Back to the stall business, the whole physics thing with an aerodynamic stall is normally that the laminar flow pattern of high speed air passing over the top of the wing (which creates a lower pressure - See Bernouilli - above the wing than below it, where the air is moving a tad slower, so you have lift and the wing is "sucked" up into the sky) is disturbed by the burble point (the point where the high speed air meets the low speed air at the trailing edge of the wing)  moving all the way to the top of the wing. At that point, the sucking (i.e. lift) stops because there is no more speed differential between the top and the bottom of the wing. Down goes da plane.

I hope that was clear as mud.  ;D There are lots of animations on u-tube so I'm sure you can watch this phenomenon at work.

But the deal with the low altitude skidding turn causing a stall on the inside wing is a bit more complicated.

The normal stall I described above occurs when you keep pulling the nose of the aircraft up so the angle of attack of the wing is too great for the burble point to stay behind the wing where it belongs. It rapidly moves up the wing surface and the stall "breaks", in pilot parlance. At that point the nose suddenly drops despite your back pressure on the stick. The recovery procedure is to lower the nose below the horizon while applying full power.

If your engine has quit, the recovery procedure is to lower the nose to what is call "glide pitch". That is the nose point below the horizon at which the aircraft will reach it's ideal glide speed (the speed where you can control the aircraft AND cover as much forward motion as possible over the ground in order to reach the place you will make ground contact).

But to make a short story long  ;D, the skidding turn ain't like that. In the skidding turn the aircraft is in a cross control situation. That is the proper way  :P to enter a spin if you want to enter a spin (flight instructors are taught this and we are also taught to exit the spin after three turns - about 3000 feet down seconds later on an assigned heading).

But, of course, you do not want to enter a spin at low altitude unless you have a death wish. If you are in a skidding left turn (e.g. you are abeam the runway going the opposite way you are going to land and, when you turn towards the runway, can't get lined up with the runway in the turn with a shallow bank coordinated turn), what you are doing is applying a too much left rudder AND, to keep that bank shallow, you are using RIGHT (not left) aileron against he rudder. Remember that you are forcing the outside wing to go faster. That outside wing is creating more lift. It wants to go UP (steepening the bank to the left). You have to fight it or it will put the aircraft into a steeper bank.

The thing that happens next, while you are busy trying to line up the nose with the runway, is that the speed of the inside wing gets so much "fuselage wash" (the body of the aircraft is wiping out the airflow pattern over the left inside wing surface near the fuselage = no lift there!).

Now it gets really good (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png). The left wing still has SOME lift (there is no high angle of attack condition here so the wing has smooth air beyond the fuselage wash area) but it begins to sink gradually. The pilot then applies MORE right aileron (the worst possible thing he can do simply because the aileron on the left wing effectively increases the angle of attack which moves the burble point towards the stall condition). The fuselage washout increases and the pressure differential is so slight on the flying part of the inside wing that it just falls out of the sky. All of a sudden the plane is in a steep left turn entering a spin.

The pilot panics and applies full right airelon and reverses the left rudder to full right rudder. The only way that can work is IF you lower the nose well below the horizon, something that you, of course, cannot do when you are 400 to 600 feet about the ground. The panicked pilot tries to keep the nose up as the ground rushes up. That is a BAD, BAD move.

If I get into a cross control stall spin entry close to the ground, I lmust lower the nose as much as I can while coordinating the controls INTO the bank, not out of it. When an aircraft stalls the controls are unresponsive. I need speed to get responsive controls. I NEED to control the aircraft in the seconds I have before gorund contact.

SO, I point at the ground to pick up speed and try a last ditch round out and flair out about 50 feet above the ground. As I said before, if the spin entry from the cross control condition is established, you do not have enough altitude to recover.

I had a similar situation occur from very different conditions. There was no cross control stall or a turning situtation, BUT, it was a severe stall only 70 feet above the ground (runway).

I was teaching landings to a Air Force ROTC student. It was silly to see these kids come to train in a Piper Cherokee 140 in a flight suit, but that's the Air Force fer ya.  ::)

This student was rather nervous. I did my best to keep him relaxed and get him to succesfully make his first landing in order to increase his self confidence. We are lined up with the runway on final approach. He is flying the plane and my hands are on my knees close to the controls.

I coach him to keep the nose pitch (position below the horizon) just right so he doesn't have to watch his airspeed indicator and can concentrate on the approaching runway.

He did fine until the flair out. We gotover the runway at about 20 feet with the round out (pulling the nose slightly back to stop the descent). At that point the aircraft gets into a condition known as ground effect. It is floating on a cushion of air between it and the runway.

You have to wait a few seconds for the aircraft to slow and begin to sink before gradually pull all the way back (flair out) and gently make ground contact with the main wheels.

He didn't do that. He yanked the stick all the way back.  :o The aircraft popped out of ground effect at an angle of about 45 degrees climbing like a homesick angel into a full stall condition. I yelled, "I GOT IT" (the signal for him to let go of he controls). There I was, about 70 feet above the runway, in a full stall condition. :P  I applied full power as I, as smoothlly and gradually as possible 😓, point the nose of the plane over 60 degrees down. I NEEDED flying airspeed. This is one case where the flaps can help you because you can get lift built up quicker at a slower speed with flaps. I applied full flaps. The engine power came up as the ground rushed up.

At the last second, without decreasing the power, I pulled back all th way on the stick. SLAM! The main wheels AND the nose gear hit so hard I thought we might have broken something (I didn't - a testament to the weel designed oleo-struts on the main gear (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png) they don't call them trainer aircraft for nothing. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png) ). I cut the power, raised the flaps, looked at my student and said, "What are you trying to do, kill me?".

I guess I shouldn't have said that but we had a long talk afterwards and he said his dad wanted him to be an Air Force pilot and he hated airplanes and really did not want to fly. I told him he could still learn but he used the hard landing as an excuse to leave the program.  I'm glad he did what he thought was best for him.   
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 27, 2018, 05:53:44 pm
Eddie,
Here's a couple of videos that are educational. The first has both a skidding and a slipping turn type situation explained. The slipping turn is usually less of a problem because the aircraft rolls over the top instead of down. But of course, that one can kill you too.

Quote
Jan 30, 2014 | 16,022 views | by BruceAirFlying
Here's a video that demonstrates the classic base-to-final skidding stall that departs into an incipient spin. The video also shows a stall from a slipping turn.

https://youtu.be/zfwLglHEYvQ


This video is good too. The base leg is the one right after the downwind (abeam the runway) leg. The base leg is 90 degrees to the runway.

Quote
Dec 20, 2015 | 41,676 views | by Gene Benson
Arguably, the deadliest turn in aviation is the one from base leg to final approach. This brief video explains the common scenario that can lead to a stall/spin .

https://youtu.be/3gKx2eh0urg
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on June 01, 2018, 03:01:08 pm
Eddie said:
Quote
Ah, we've gotten around to the core message. I read you loud and clear Cap'n.

What does "Love thine enemies" mean to you?  What specific behavior is involved? That's where Palloy misses the boat when he comes down so hard on me. You're missing it too.

To me it doesn't mean that I can literally make myself instantly treat an adversary like my brother. There's a reason somebody is my adversary. It didn't happen in a vacuum. They are my adversary because they did something to me, or are causing me some kind of grief. They're maybe still doing it.

But "love thine enemies" means I need to give them a big hug the next time I see them and say, "Hey, you've been a major prick, but I love you cuz Jesus sez"......

I doubt the real capacity for most humans to do that if they were REALLY trying. It isn't likely to ever happen on a Federation planet.

"Love thine enemies", to me means something different from that..

To me, love thine enemies extends to putting myself in the enemies' place and trying realize maybe they have legitimate reasons for whatever they're doing that negatively impacts me. Understanding that they're fallible and human and that I'm not perfect, and maybe I should try to see it from their side.

THAT, I can do. And I do. Who says I don't?

The scripture does not indicate this person is not going to be my enemy anymore.

  --------------------------------------


"Turn the other cheek." That one has several possible meanings, according which religious authority you accept, actually. Ancient metaphors are easily misunderstood. Especially in translation from dead languages. Blessed are the cheese makers.

You ones all see things black and white. It's all so simple. Must be nice
That's a rather harsh judgement, sir. I have the Hebrew Greek study bible and get HEAVY into the orignial words to see if I can figure out the cultural mindset of the writer at the time. Yes, GOOD and EVIL are 100% black and white to me. That is irrelevant to proper interpretation of Scripture and does not interfere with my analytical mental faculties. For example, most "Christians" believe that the Commandment to "Honor thy father and thy mother" means you must obey their every wish. Obedience has NOTHING to do with that. As Jesus made rather clear, it's about taking economic and physical care of your parents in their old age. You and I know that children were (and in some places still are) the social security and retirement pension for humans back then. Jesus was accutely aware of how hypocrites mistreated their aged parents while claiming to be men of God. He called them out on it and many other examples of Mammon worshipping evil behavior.

But, people who find it uncomfortable to get past 1st grade Sunday school (i.e. most American "Christians") cannot be bothered with such realities. Providing sustenance for aged parents is TOTALLY different from observing obedience to their wishes. The "Honor" in that Commandment is where the word "Honorarium" came from that the lawyers came up with to fleece their clients.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png)


As to your other points, I basically agree. The point of contention you and I have has to do with the source of our decision making mental and spiritual software, not what good Christian behavior is.

My Christianity has been tainted by lots of subversive influences.  Tantra. Taoism. Astrology. Past Lives. Karma. Dharma. LSD. Peyote. Mushrooms. Meditation.

All kinds of unsubstantiated hocus pocus. I'm a spiritual sponge. I soak it all up and when I dry out there is a little bit of all of it still inside me. It is as it is supposed to be. That's my faith.

I have no hope of influencing you in any positive way, or of convincing you that my belief system has any merit, or that anything in the world of spirituality is correct besides your limited personal interpretation of Jesus's message as perceived by a nosebleed Type One.

But I won't willingly stand by and listen to you badmouth me. You aren't qualified to do that, and I won't allow it.

You don't hold the moral high ground here that you erroneously assume that you do. You have your own work to do, and it's late in the game for you. You should worry less about my **** and more about your own ****.


This is the only comment I'll make on this thread, because it is prima facie absurd. Reminds me of the old rock tune with the lyric, 
"My girl is red hot, your girl ain't doodle squat..." except substitute "God" for "girl." A POV underpinning every pointless squabble on the face of the earth.

This resonated for me:

Quote
I'm a spiritual sponge. I soak it all up and when I dry out there is a little bit of all of it still inside me. It is as it is supposed to be. That's my faith.

Our faith tempered by experience makes us who we are. Seems self-evident to me.

Not sure I get your POV either. I didn't mean it the way you took it, that's for sure. If I had to rephrase what I meant, it would be :

"I have my own belief system. It's  a hodge-podge made up of many influences. But it's mine, it's legitimate, and I won't listen to some really ignorant and judgmental jerk try to take it apart.

Better?

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but Surly's point is 100% valid in regard to this subject. I think what Surly is trying to say is as follows:

When discussing the term, "Christianity", different people get a totally different picture in their heads. For example, a fighter pilot gets a picture of a fighter plane when he hears the word, "F16".

(https://adminassets.devops.arabiaweather.com/t.php?y=article_image&p=https://adminassets.devops.arabiaweather.com/sites/default/files/field/image/uYlV5.jpg)

But, a photographer gets a totally different picture in his head when he hears the word, "F16".

(https://carlacoulson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/F-Stop.jpg)


All that said, you and I pretty much understand each other. I think that Works without Faith are as empty as Faith without Works. You think that's for the guilt ridden. 

I don't understand your hangup with guilt. For the life of me, I don't feel any particular guilt for having a fallen nature. I was born with it. You and Yogananda, however, eschew all that "fallen nature" business. Sir, that is so basically UNChristian it boggles the mind that anyone could reject the Biblical teachings about human fallen nature, the ONLY reason Christ had to die for us, and claim to be Christian.

Nevertheless, I understand that your "F16" is rather different from my F16. When we die, that issue will be cleared up permanently. (http://dl7.glitter-graphics.net/pub/2046/2046807qoer9uc27q.gif)

The Book of James makes it rather clear that the cornerstone of Christianity is Faith, even before the admonition that good works MUST accompany Christian Faith. Good works come forth only if the person actually lives their Faith.

Good Works without Christian Faith are laudable, but they are not in any way related to Chritianity. (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418202709.png) Verse 18 is often taken out of context to make the case that the bottom Christian line is WORKS, as many New Age folks claim. Capter 2: Verse 22 begins to clear that up. Then, verse 24 makes it crystal clear that Faith (see: "only") is a sine qua non Christian precondition to  Good Chrisitian Works.

The following is sine qua non to being a Christian (Agelbert's F16 WITHOUT QUOTES (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-051113192052.png)):

Quote
James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


To Agent Graves:
Thank you for changing your icon.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png) (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png) Now I feel free to read your posts.

I am certain you view my stuffed shirt prude outlook as a weakness. You are right. I do what I can. Welcome to the Doomstead Diner. Here you will have a front row seat on the collapse of industrial civilization. Most of us here feel it is baked in (pun intended  ;)).

RE,
You know that I hunger and thirst for justice as much as anybody else. I have skills that make me a very, very potentially dangerous person. As to being as evil as you can possibly be, I probably take the prize here for past thoughts that, thankfully, I never had the opportunity to carry out. Jesus said that if you THINK approvingly and willfully of doing something (e.g. adultery) you have already committed that sin.

Well, sin covers a lot of behavioral ground. As an Intelligence Operations Specialist, while in training at Lowry AFB, Colorado in 1967, I prepared a bombing run as an exercise to destroy two major airfields in Hanoi, Noth Vietnam. I went to Bombing Encyclopedia (a LARGE document prepared by the USAF with the radar signature of EVERY CITY in the world - including US cities (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png)) and looked up the included nuclear weapon yield. After doing some math, I realized that two nukes with smaller yelds would do more damage than one big one. Besides, B52s could carry the slightly smaller ones easier. If that mission had taken place, I would have shared the responsibility for killing over one million people plus animals and foliage, followed by horrendous misery and death for hundreds of thousands others within a year or so. Yeah, it was just an exercise. BUT, I can tell you right now I would have carried it out without batting a BRAINWASHED eyelid. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png)


Paul ain't got nuttin' on me. I am the CHIEF among sinners. So, I have a LOT to be grateful for by Jesus Christ coming into my life. I know how to fly the big jets too. I am confident that I will never use my dastardly skills to kill. But you never know. Being a Christian is a daily struggle, not for the feint of heart. I am NOT a nice guy. My good works behavior and willingness to forego revenge for the evil visited on me an many fellow humans for Christ is the result of God's grace, PERIOD.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on June 01, 2018, 08:08:14 pm
Alas for me, I need to know how it works as well, but this is just a discussion and exchange of ideas, not argument I hope.

To Agelbert, I will describe two people to show what I believe in both grace and personal will, maybe even karma, without prayer or anything being miraculous.

About a month ago, I was stopped at a red light at a pedestrian crossing on a busy main road at 3.45pm. There was only one person crossing, an Indian schoolboy about 12 years old. He was slouched against the pole. I had been stopped for a while, about 5-10 seconds, when BANG!!! the car beside me had been hit from behind so hard it jumped right across the intersection. It was a very small and light car, an early 90s model ford, driven by immigrant collecting childten from school, but less than a ton.

The car that hit it must have not even slowed or braked, but stopped dead, a larger, modern car driven by a white middle age woman who was in a daze. I guess thats the physics of the impact.

But the amazing thing is that the boy had not crossed the road. I am sure I had been stopped long enough that the green walk signal should have been on. I was on the left lane and the car beside me that got hit was in the right lane, the length of time i was stopped being at least 5 seconds, the boy should have been in front of the car beside me at that moment.  Thats what I call Grace.

My anecdote to do with Will involves a motorcycle cop Ive known a long time. On about July last year at about 5am he also ran straight into the back of another vehicle without even braking, but this time the weight advantage was with the stopped Toyota pickup, not the police bike. I think unless you have constant regular work shift at that time, its very hard to be alert. Do a 12 hr shift at that time when your body clock is screaming for shutdown and here is what can happen. Head first, not good.

When I heard of the injuries, coma, brain damage, lost eye, half a head made of metal and leg still in a brace for now, I thought he was better off dead. Yet he has been positive and humerous throughout, now with a great trick of taking out the glass eye.

The numerous surgeons involved said he will not ride motorbikes again, his reply 'bullshit'. After I dont know how many tests of function and like a 17 year had to sit learners drivers test in a car. Now working towards motorcycle when the brace comes off. He refuses to take a desk job, but goes to the station and sits on the parked police bikes. I have no doubt now he WILL do it again, when i thought he was going to only drive a wheelchair with constant migraine, so i count it miraculous. No religion invoked at all, only Will. Karma? I don't know, except that he's spent a long time on suspension. Mean guy? No, opposite.  The outpouring of support from literally hundreds of people saying what a humbling inspiration this is, is testament to that.


I agree with you that the kid was saved by God's grace.

About the other fellow, I hear ya. People who just give up die pretty quick. It's good that he has not given up. The will does play a part in human interactions. I agree that is important.

But, I've had too much strange stuff happen to me when my will was working exactly backwards to credit the will above a certain level of cause and effect routine interaction.

The experience was coming back from a movie and stopped at a light (I previously wrote about it here about 5 years ago). There wasn't a car in sight. It was dark, quiet, and the light turned green. I'm not colorblind. I was young and a certified commercial pilot.

I just sat there, thinking nothing in particular. No, I wasn't thinking about the movie. I was pretty much in neutral, watching he green light and the surrounding street intersection darkness. Nobody was talking at the time. I had ZERO distractions. A few seconds went by and my brother in the back seat with his wife, who's will was working normally ;D, (my wife was in the front seat) said, "It isn't going to get any greener". I said, right, and immediately took my foot off the brake and moved it to the accelerator as a car without headlights streaked a few feet from the front of my car in the road I was about to cross at over 70 mph. Had I moved, we would have all been dead. We were in a 1966 White Toyota Corolla just like the one below:

(https://cache4.pakwheels.com/ad_pictures/1183/toyota-corolla-1966-11836585.jpg)

I crept accross the intersection and drove home uneventfully.

We were all deathly quiet the rest of the way home. That car would not have protected us and we all knew it. It's hard to chit chat when your heart is in your throat. 😨

The strength of will was my enemy there. You can call it anything you want that saved four people's arses that night, but I call it God's grace. Mind you, I was an atheist at the time. The kid you observed got his will short circuited temporarily exactly the way mine was.

God or one of His messengers (angel means messenger) does this kind of thing routinely. Materialists have trouble handling it. As an atheist, I just could not figure it out. Eventually, I did.

It is impossible to understand these types of experiences from a mechanistic reductionist perspective which so limits the atheist when confronted with cause and effect anomalies that result in the saving of lives. As Palloy and some others here will probably do from reading this anecdote, I made up lots of excuses and tried to relegate the experience to a "coincidence". That was bullshit. It was no coincidence, but I won't get into a hair splitting back and forth with him or anybody else here who thinks I'm telling tall tales. If they think I'm full of baloney horse hockey, that's their problem, not mine.

The human strength of Will isn't always a plus. Sometimes it is extremely counterproductive.


Paul ain't got nuttin' on me. I am the CHIEF among sinners. So, I have a LOT to be grateful for by Jesus Christ coming into my life. I know how to fly the big jets too. I am confident that I will never use my dastardly skills to kill. But you never know. Being a Christian is a daily struggle, not for the feint of heart. I am NOT a nice guy. My good works behavior and willingness to forego revenge for the evil visited on me and many fellow humans for Christ is the result of God's grace, PERIOD.

These threads just wear me out, and I tend to give them a wide berth. But scanning this, AG's words resonated.

God's grace plus a big dose of humility born of self-reflection, IMO.

You do well to give credit to Grace, but sell yourself short, I think, for your walk.

But then whathtefuck do I know?


You know enough to honestly comment with your heart as well as your head.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png) (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png)

Nobody can ask for more. Thank you.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 03, 2019, 12:56:41 pm
As we older folks get on in years, our body does not make the same amount of melatonin. Sometimes people make the mistake of trying strong seep drugs, which they become addicted to and just make sleep harder, and costlier, to come by. 👎

All you need is 3 mg of melatonin a couple of hours before (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185036-1638694.gif) bed. You then sleep like you have always slept. 👍

Good to know.

I have found that I need much less sleep than I did when I was younger. Five-six hours seems to do it these days.

Although in my dotage, I have gained a fresh appreciation for a well-placed nap!


Needing less sleep as one ages seems to be the norm. In my case, that did not happen. I still need around 10 hours of sleep to feel rested. My dad, who never needed more than five hours or so, was always on my case about that when I was in my early 20's (and before I had a steady job ;)).

I am certain I would be more productive if I needed less sleep. But unfortunately, that isn't how I'm wired. In West Point (you NEVER got more that 6 hours there) I actually fell asleep after asking a question (while the computer software teacher was answering!).

In engineering graphics class I routinely had to join the small (two or three) group of cadets in the back that were allowed to stand (to avoid falling asleep). We would lean on the radiators back there. One rime I actually dozed off standing up, but did not fall over (sort of like a horse - lol). The radiator burning my arse woke me pretty quick, though. :D

When I was 26 or so, I was driving one saturday morning to an Air National Guard weekend warrior drill and fell asleep briefly. I know I fell asleep because I was starting a long curved to the left section of the road and suddenly the road was straight in front of me. Well, the adrenaline shot (either side of the curved road  was and 8 ft. embankement and a swamp the car and me would have been submerged in) was enough to keep me 👀 wide awake the rest of the day. 

Now, unlike when I was young, I do not sleep straight through the night. I wake up to urinate once (so far! (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-221017161839.png)). C'est la vie.

“Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: Surly1 on May 04, 2019, 07:41:33 am

Now, unlike when I was young, I do not sleep straight through the night. I wake up to urinate once (so far! (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-221017161839.png)). C'est la vie.


Pretty common with age. Depending on how much liquid I've consumed I do the same thing, sometimes twice.

I read somewhere that back in the pre-electric days, it was common for people's sleep to be divided into two parts, with time for socializing (!) or other indoor sports between both sleep sessions.

Not any more.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 04, 2019, 01:33:44 pm

Now, unlike when I was young, I do not sleep straight through the night. I wake up to urinate once (so far! (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-221017161839.png)). C'est la vie.


Pretty common with age. Depending on how much liquid I've consumed I do the same thing, sometimes twice.

I read somewhere that back in the pre-electric days, it was common for people's sleep to be divided into two parts, with time for socializing (!) or other indoor sports between both sleep sessions.

Not any more.

I didn't know about that two part sleeep time division from before electric lighting. It makes sense that they would do that because back then a lot of the work was physically demading, so they needed to stagger the rest periods with the socializing. 

Too much of what society considers "normal" does not make any sense any more. :(

By the way, how's the arrhythmia medication holding you up? My pacemaker still seems to be workin' okay, though I've skipped several six month checkups. ;D

My last doctor left Vermont after staying here less than two years. That's two doctors now. Perhaps it is my BO :D, but it's probably something unrelated to me personally. Doctors would go bankrupt if they had to rely on me going to frequent checkups. I do not DO the "repeat visit" business model of the modern "health" care bidness. If I ain't sick, I don't go. They don't like that. Too bad.  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-111018132401-16872027.gif) 
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: Surly1 on May 08, 2019, 06:13:18 am

Now, unlike when I was young, I do not sleep straight through the night. I wake up to urinate once (so far! (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-221017161839.png)). C'est la vie.


Pretty common with age. Depending on how much liquid I've consumed I do the same thing, sometimes twice.

I read somewhere that back in the pre-electric days, it was common for people's sleep to be divided into two parts, with time for socializing (!) or other indoor sports between both sleep sessions.

Not any more.

I didn't know about that two part sleeep time division from before electric lighting. It makes sense that they would do that because back then a lot of the work was physically demading, so they needed to stagger the rest periods with the socializing. 

Too much of what society considers "normal" does not make any sense any more. :(

By the way, how's the arrhythmia medication holding you up? My pacemaker still seems to be workin' okay, though I've skipped several six month checkups. ;D

My last doctor left Vermont after staying here less than two years. That's two doctors now. Perhaps it is my BO :D, but it's probably something unrelated to me personally. Doctors would go bankrupt if they had to rely on me going to frequent checkups. I do not DO the "repeat visit" business model of the modern "health" care bidness. If I ain't sick, I don't go. They don't like that. Too bad.  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-111018132401-16872027.gif)

Regarding sleep, your observation about physical labor is a good one. I attributed it to early bedtimes in the lack of artificial lighting. Human cycles would have followed the sun's light. And farmers are early to bed, early to rise, generally up before daylight.

But what do I know?

In re my arrhythmia and the meds, so far so good.  No pacemaker yet, knock on wood. A friend of mine has one with no ill results.  Don't go too long without a service call, though.
Title: Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual Experiences
Post by: AGelbert on May 08, 2019, 12:38:03 pm
Quote
Posted by: Surly1
Regarding sleep, your observation about physical labor is a good one. I attributed it to early bedtimes in the lack of artificial lighting. Human cycles would have followed the sun's light. And farmers are early to bed, early to rise, generally up before daylight.

But what do I know?

In re my arrhythmia and the meds, so far so good.  No pacemaker yet, knock on wood. A friend of mine has one with no ill results.  Don't go too long without a service call, though.

Glad to see you are doing good.  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-210818163127-1680962.png)