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Topic Summary

Posted by: AGelbert
« on: October 31, 2018, 05:54:14 pm »

Jordan Peterson is BOUGHT AND PAID FOR by the Koch Brothers

Who is Jordan Peterson 😈, the ‘alt-right’ darling of YouTube?

Brenden Gallagher— Apr 30 at 2:00AM | Last updated Apr 30 at 8:45AM

SNIPPET:

If you hang around intellectuals or academics long enough, one of them will make the joke that they wish they were conservative because there is a lot more money in it. Jordan Peterson is living proof of that.

The Koch Brothers and the Heritage Foundation are eager to fund and promote the brightest minds conservatism has to offer. They intend to use the free market language of the right, there is a high demand for “intellectuals” who will defend conservative ideas, but there is a very low supply.

So if you’re wondering how 55-year-old Canadian psychology professor Jordan B. Peterson became an overnight sensation, going from obscure academic to international bestseller lauded in the New York Times 👹 as “most influential public intellectual in the Western world right now,” you don’t have to look much further than that old academic joke.

Jordan Peterson is famous because in the era of the resurgent alt-right, the loose collection of conservatives that align with white supremacists, there are few intellectuals willing to align themselves with the movement. The alt-right is in need of intellectuals to justify their fascist worldview, and Peterson has been ready.

Full article:

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/jordan-peterson/

Agelbert NOTE: I repeat, Jordan Peterson is a stalking horse for FASCISM. He enthusiastically supports the Koch Brothers push to get Trump and his wreckng crew to eliminate Social Security and Medicare.

Ashvin, like Jordan Peterson, is also a Fascist Enabler, as well as a serial liar.


Posted by: AGelbert
« on: October 31, 2018, 02:11:24 pm »


The POS people, like Peterson, who would wholeheartedly support the elimination of Medicare and Social Security for EVERYONE, not just the "off the rails" liberals, without blinking an eye, are TEXTBOOK FASCIST ENABLERS.

Another ardent critic of the "fascist" Peterson who hasn't read or listened to him. You guys write like you have been studying the guy for years and have become experts, but the content of you're writing betrays that you have barely looked into him for more than few minutes.

What is a stated above is FALSE - he has never said anything about eliminating Medicare or Social Security that I'm aware of. If you can come up with evidence to the contrary, we are happy to look at it. But we're not holding our breath.

The rest of your rant is completely irrelevant to this topic so I will ignore it.


Ashvin, please continue to "ignore" my "irrelevant" posts by POSTING a reply stating that you are, uh, simply insulting  me while studiously "ignoring" me.

YOU are the fine fellow that couldn't be bothered with reading my "behemoth" (your words!) article(s) several years ago, but here you are harping on people, as is your sophist wont, who "won't think deeply" or "bother to watch some video(s) you posted". THAT is textbook PROJECTION.

It is also a fallacious debating technique, but I'll let RE and Surly deal with your baseless complaints.

You have a track record, Ashvin, of NOT being objective on a plethora of issues. You have consistently sided with authoritarian (i.e. RIGHT WING = NeoFascist to Fascist) political and financial positions deleterious to the well being of the poor, minorities AND the average citizen in the USA of any color or ethnicty. You try to hide from it (as Surly noted) with some present guise of objectivity (see fallacious debating techniques), but it is generally accepted among people of average intelligence that if Ashvin walks and talks like a duck, (etc.). Most who post here are several points above average, so you will always have a difficult time playing your sophistic mind games in this forum.

As to your claim that I am lying, let us clear the air. YOU admire and support Peterson's "deep thinking" POV. THAT alone tells anyone with two brain cells two rub together that you and Peterson are birds of a political feather.

That doesn't mean you think alike in all areas, but, as Surly intimated, it produces a telling metaphorical odor. The "odor" has some characteristics that you can deny until the cows come home, but no one can take you seriously when you engage in said denials.

The tem "Politically Correct", when espoused, defended or originated by anyone (e.g. Jordan Peterson) is prima facie evidence of RACIST BIGOTRY. I am experienced hearing those too clever by a half ASSHOLES making the clever jokes and snide remarks about being "politically correct" in places I have worked. You KNOW THEM BY THEIR hateful, derisve, sarcastic, scorn filled FRUIT.   

In addition, Jordan Peterson does a lot of word twisting to get people to reject good government. Good government is what gave us Social Security AND Medicare. I stand by my previous statement that Jordan Peterson would DEFINITELY APPLAUD the elimination of these vital programs that HONOR the Lord Jesus Christ's teachings.

Thie following is a quote from an intelligent fellow who sees through Jordan Peterson's clever rhetoric.
Quote
Jordan Peterson: The social structure is corrupt and incomplete

Quote
Jimmy Owen

Social structures will NEVER be perfect, because they're complex and made up of people, and because they must balance competing but equally important values in an ever-changing world (e.g. freedom vs. security, rights vs. responsibilities, progress vs. stability, etc.) But social structures ARE necessary and valuable, and some are FAR better than others, so it's not axiomatic that you should tear them down.  American and Canadian societies, for example, are among the best, and most free EVER to have existed.  So, gain an honest understanding of their relative merits, and propose a BETTER ALTERNATIVE before you try to tear them down out of self-righteous indignation at the way you naively perceive things to be.

Proposing the DESTRUCTION of social structures is precisely what FASCISTS DO. ANYONE, like Jordan Peterson, wanting to take apart our social structures will enthusiastically support the elimination of social Security AND Medicare. You called me a liar, Ashvin. You are the liar.




Jordan Peterson is just one more large vocabulary stalking horse for FASCISM.

Quote
Proverbs 12:18 “There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.”

You and Peterson are among those that speaketh like the piercings of a sword. Have a nice day, Antinomian Heretic.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: October 18, 2018, 05:15:13 pm »

+  = 

The Terrible Trump Portrait That Explains Everything

October 18, 2018

William Rivers Pitt, Truthout: The legacies of Nixon , Reagan 🐉 and W. Bush 🦕 combine to tell a long, sorry tale of corruption, greed, brazen lies, abused power and religious fundamentalism gone wild that put us where we are today. Remove any one of those men from the strange painting that lit up the internet on Monday, and Donald Trump would be just another late-night punchline you slept through, again.

Read the Article:

https://truthout.org/articles/the-terrible-trump-portrait-that-explains-everything/

Posted by: AGelbert
« on: October 17, 2018, 11:00:52 pm »


SNIPPET:

Quote
earlofhuntingdon says:
October 17, 2018 at 11:18 am
Yep, more wishing from lawyers for Trump, hoping that a troubling prosecution will go away.  The meme also serves to distract the Don about how this will all go away by the end of the week/month/Friedman unit.  Giuliani has been peddling that s h i t for months.

Nothing’s “going away” if Mueller announces a series of indictments. That just turns the heat on the Trump frying pan.

This relates to the question the MSM seems to be breathlessly asking itself:  Why is Trump making this mid-term election about him?

Does the MSM have the same vacant memory as Donald Trump?  Everything is about Trump, just as the Kavanaugh “win” was all about his intervention.  Donald Trump could not permit an election to be about anything but him.  It occupies the press for months.

He needs to frame the issues, too.  Just as he needs to distract from the fact that he cannot do the job he endlessly campaigns for, but makes money from.  That would include the opportunity to raise mountains of “campaign” cash.

The press just noting the dollar amounts raised adds no value.  What would add value would be investigative reporting on whose coffers it ends up in and what it’s spent on.  Such as painfully expensive criminal defense lawyers for close associates of Donald J. Trump.


Lee says:
October 17, 2018 at 7:50 pm
“Everything is about Trump, just as the Kavanaugh “win” was all about his intervention.  Donald Trump could not permit an election to be about anything but him.”

It has always interested me how so many people who think of themselves as Christian could miss the overwhelming resemblance of Donald J Trump to every biblical and theological description of the Devil, as someone who wants to dominate the whole universe, to be the center of everything.  It brings to mind the words of C.S. Lewis’s character Screwtape, a demon writing to his nephew Wormwood about their war against God:  “We want cattle who can finally become food; He (God) wants servants who can finally become sons. We want to suck in, He wants to give out. We are empty and would be filled; He is full and flows over. Our war aim is a world in which Our Father Below has drawn all other beings into himself: the Enemy wants a world full of beings united to Him but still distinct.”

I can’t think of a more apt personification of “our Father Below” than Donald Trump.  Just FWIW.
 

Read more:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/10/17/on-corey-lewandowskis-big-legal-bills-and-muellers-deadline-from-rosenstein/

Posted by: AGelbert
« on: October 10, 2018, 04:34:21 pm »

Donald Trump and the prosperity gospel

Robert Harrington | 12:12 pm EDT October 10, 2018

Palmer Report » Analysis

When last year CNN fired sometime commentator and full time religious studies scholar Reza Aslan for tweeting that Donald Trump was a “piece of s h i t,” one was left to wonder if it was because he employed a profanity in describing the President of the United States, or merely because he committed the journalistic heresy of stating the obvious. Whichever it was, one cannot also help but wonder if CNN knew not what it did. For it was also about that time that Aslan put his perspicacious finger on the not-so-obvious reasons why “the Donald” has gathered unto himself so rabid a following, and how, after all this time, that following appears to have remained bafflingly loyal.

The good news is the aforementioned following we are concerned with here is at least confined to the pulpits and pews of white fundamentalist Christians. Were it not for Aslan, the question of why Trump should gain such popularity with such a group might remain an ostensible head scratcher. But for this recipe for Dragon Stew, Aslan actually provides us with a plausible dragon: Donald Trump is a religious cult.

That cult comes compliments of something called “the prosperity gospel.” The idea goes that the more righteous a man is, the more God blesses him with material wealth. Trump’s ostentatious trappings of wealth are the obvious proof that God must think Trump a pretty groovy guy.

Some of the cynical among us noticed that “the prosperity gospel” started to appear right around the same time that the dorsal fins of the big-haired, Rolex-wearing televangelists started to cut the water. Mansions needed sanctification, luxury cars and private jets required the consecration of Elijah’s chariots of fire. The prosperity gospel gave the perfect fit.


“But none of this … explains the most important phenomenon about white evangelicals in America,” Aslan says, “and that is this: In the span of a single election cycle, white evangelicals have gone from being the group in America that is most likely to say that a politician’s morality matters to the group that is now least likely to say that.”


In other words, the cult of personality surrounding Donald Trump has managed in a single election cycle to convince good people that doing bad things is okay. The last time we witnessed a phenomenon like that was when a community of Americans settled in a little regarded country called Guyana led by a little known evangelical named Jim Jones. This time the stakes are much, much higher.

Click here to help fund Palmer Report's editorial effort to take Donald Trump down

Be sure to follow Palmer Report on Facebook and Twitter, and sign up for our mailing list.

Robert Harrington  is an American expat living in Britain. He is a portrait painter.


https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/prosperity-gospel-donald-trump/13333/

Agelbert NOTE: The Heretical Doctrine of Demons called "Prosperity Preaching" (a principle tenet of the Antinomian Christian Heretical teaching), that the pseudo-Christians in the USA are enthralled with, is thousands of years old.

Quote
an·ti·no·mi·an
[an-ti- noh-mee- uhn]

NOUN

a person who maintains that Christians are freed from the moral law by virtue of grace as set forth in the gospel.

I have a deceased brother-in-law who worshipped monetary wealth above any Christian duty to help the disadvantaged and poor of this world. He thought it was A-OKAY to be GREEDY, as his wife (my sister, also a Mammon worshipping Pseudo-Christian) still, unfortunately for her, does.

In the Epistle II Peter in the New Testament, Peter addresses the Antinomians who claimed to be Christians. These Heretics were defined by their insistance that it was okay to sin to get more money and wantonly engage in just about any worldly lust they wanted to engage in based on a deliberate twisting of the Holy Scripture (SEE Paul: "We are saved by Grace, not works"). 

Peter makes it crystal clear that claiming to be a Christian and chasing money, comfort, power and the lusts of the flesh is HERESY. Anyone practicing it is doomed to perdition, period.

Quote
II PETER 2: 17-22

17  These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18  For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean [5] escaped from them who live in error. 19  While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21  For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


 
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: August 29, 2018, 01:24:21 pm »


Agelbert NOTE: There is a special place in Hell for world class hypocrites like "Dr." James Dobson, who once fooled me into believing he was a brother in Christ. :(

The hypocrisy of white evangelicals


By Renée Graham GLOBE COLUMNIST  JULY 24, 2018

WHEN THEN-PRESIDENT Bill Clinton lied in 1998 about an affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky, Christian extremist James Dobson  declared it was “foolish to believe that a person who lacks honesty and moral integrity is qualified to lead a nation and the world!” Under Clinton, Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, warned that America was facing “a profound moral crisis.”

Fast-forward two decades. We’re chest deep in a profound moral crisis, and every other kind of crisis you dare imagine. Yet, like most of his fellow evangelicals, Dobson is as silent as a church mouse about the White House’s current occupant, a man who breaks at least three of the Ten Commandments every day.



Never underestimate the hypocrisy of white evangelicals.
 

With his multiple marriages and affairs, penchant for grandiose lies, and general indifference to normal adult behavior, President Trump should represent what white evangelicals claim to despise.

Instead, he received 81 percent of their vote, and their support is unfailing.

It’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than to find any evangelical handwringing about whether Trump’s moral turpitude renders him unfit to govern.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/07/24/the-hypocrisy-white-evangelicals/grOuIwWqPrmmllAbnd6JSL/story.html


Posted by: AGelbert
« on: August 18, 2018, 08:33:43 pm »

Quote
2 Timothy 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV)

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Child Abuse, the Catholic Church and the Justice of Real Consequences

August 18, 2018

William Rivers Pitt, Truthout: Due to the actions of the institution’s leadership and the priests who have committed unfathomable crimes against children, Catholic churches in the United States have surrendered their moral right to remain in operation until this matter is resolved down to the last detail, the last victim and the last collaborator. At long last, it is enough.

Full EXCELLENT article:


https://truthout.org/articles/child-abuse-the-catholic-church-and-the-justice-of-real-consequences/
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: June 11, 2018, 06:11:53 pm »


Yep.  :(

The racist bastards never stop doing what they do. As they get more confident of their power, they become more in-our-faces about brazenly doing what those evil bastards have ALWAYS done since ancient times, when they could get away with it.


Quote
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.

There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.

There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

Proverbs 30:12-14

Posted by: AGelbert
« on: June 02, 2018, 10:08:16 pm »

Golden Oxen, if you actually believed that hell existed, you would not repeat your TOO OFTEN repeated braggadocio about how rich you are and how all of us "saints" will get our "reward in heaven" while you "end up in Hell".


Yeah, that's true. BUT, YOU DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF IT!

Golden Oxen does not like to have his life style questioned (see below):


Your correct Agelbert, I don't believe there is a hell for people who do not want to spend their life and their families being poor.

Nor a heaven for those who became poor through drugs and boozing and partying.

                                                                        Nice talking to you Anthony,  GO   
                       


How cleverly reductionist of you. Cut the bullshit, GO. You don't have ANY conditions on your NONbelief in the existence of Hell or Heaven. Your vulgar, empathy deficit disordered stereotype demonising of the poor is typical of your rather limited empathy for disadvantaged people, none of which have abandoned their family or partied, but have been subjected to social injustices you deliberately pretend are not there. Your clever positioning of your greed based life style as "worthy" of Heaven because you are "just taking care of your family", not worshipping your STUFF while you rationalize that those who have it "deserve" it and those who don't have it "deserve" not to have it.

THIS is your Hell deserving religion, Mr. Golden Oxen:

Quote
"Capitalist ideology claims that the world is perfectly ordered and everybody is in their place (i.e. everybody gets what they deserve). This self legitmating aspect of Capitalism is Socially Catastrophic. This is the Victorian view of the world." Rob Urie - Author " Zen Economics"

Sir, you don't believe there is a hell, PERIOD. If you did, you would not routinely work so hard to earn a place there. Have a nice day.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: June 02, 2018, 07:47:49 pm »

I had trouble with the sunday school conception of Christianity since i started asking these questions and being reprimanded for it in the 1st grade.

1. Jimmy Swaggart goes to heaven and Ghandi goes to hell.

2.Being born into abuse/starvation or being born to billionaires is as random as advantageous mutation in the theory of evolution.

3. No explanation of where human souls went prior to Jesus life.

4. No explanation of where souls go after 33AD but before hearing the gospel that they are sinners and the white people killing their fellow natives and taking their land are actually good and doing them a favour by replacing their evil religions.

5.No explanation of why Jesus did not expressly forbid war and conquest in his name if he is an all knowing God and knew this would happen.

6. No explanation of where the seperate God resides, now that we have orbited and photgraphed the earth from space, so scriptural 'on the clouds' is unstisfactory.

7. No explanation of Jesus absence age 12 to 30.

8. No explanation of why 3 men from the east who would hold wrong beliefs were present at the first Christmas instead of at least reps from Gods chosen people.

9. No explanation of why the 3 men from the east were "wise", if they represent the sort of wrong teaching the Beatles travelled to India for.

10. Jesus said he would return soon, 2000 years ago.

These need to be answered from the words of Jesus or direct scripture, not post hoc theology.

As to that point about the Puritan belief permeating America as a Christian country, I hope a uniform of authoritah is better than bathing suits on a boat.

Nice post. All kids with a brain ask those questions when they grow up in a fundamentalist authoritarian religious church. They generally go unanswered, and that's one reason why thinking people tend to drift away as they get out from under the thumb of their parents and church elders.

There are answers to questions like that.

For one thing, the Christianity practiced in churches, by and large, is a very twisted and perverted version of the real thing. At least somebody like Palloy, who seems to have avoided real Bible study (to his benefit), can grasp Jesus' basic message. The more clap trap that gets added to the mix, the more difficult that gets.
1. Love God
2. Love your neighbor as yourself
The rest is commentary.

Seen any mustard trees?

The "mustard seed" is the Gospel of Jesus.  Mustard plants normally are knee-high weeds.  For it to grow as large as a tree requires a miracle.  That's because it has become a mutant.  But the point of that is to protect it from dying out.  In the final harvest, the wheat (those who truly follow Jesus, see #1 and #2 above) will be separated from the chaff (those who just took the form of Christianity).


Posted by: AGelbert
« on: June 01, 2018, 03:00:28 pm »

Eddie said:
Quote
Ah, we've gotten around to the core message. I read you loud and clear Cap'n.

What does "Love thine enemies" mean to you?  What specific behavior is involved? That's where Palloy misses the boat when he comes down so hard on me. You're missing it too.

To me it doesn't mean that I can literally make myself instantly treat an adversary like my brother. There's a reason somebody is my adversary. It didn't happen in a vacuum. They are my adversary because they did something to me, or are causing me some kind of grief. They're maybe still doing it.

But "love thine enemies" means I need to give them a big hug the next time I see them and say, "Hey, you've been a major prick, but I love you cuz Jesus sez"......

I doubt the real capacity for most humans to do that if they were REALLY trying. It isn't likely to ever happen on a Federation planet.

"Love thine enemies", to me means something different from that..

To me, love thine enemies extends to putting myself in the enemies' place and trying realize maybe they have legitimate reasons for whatever they're doing that negatively impacts me. Understanding that they're fallible and human and that I'm not perfect, and maybe I should try to see it from their side.

THAT, I can do. And I do. Who says I don't?

The scripture does not indicate this person is not going to be my enemy anymore.

  --------------------------------------


"Turn the other cheek." That one has several possible meanings, according which religious authority you accept, actually. Ancient metaphors are easily misunderstood. Especially in translation from dead languages. Blessed are the cheese makers.

You ones all see things black and white. It's all so simple. Must be nice
That's a rather harsh judgement, sir. I have the Hebrew Greek study bible and get HEAVY into the orignial words to see if I can figure out the cultural mindset of the writer at the time. Yes, GOOD and EVIL are 100% black and white to me. That is irrelevant to proper interpretation of Scripture and does not interfere with my analytical mental faculties. For example, most "Christians" believe that the Commandment to "Honor thy father and thy mother" means you must obey their every wish. Obedience has NOTHING to do with that. As Jesus made rather clear, it's about taking economic and physical care of your parents in their old age. You and I know that children were (and in some places still are) the social security and retirement pension for humans back then. Jesus was accutely aware of how hypocrites mistreated their aged parents while claiming to be men of God. He called them out on it and many other examples of Mammon worshipping evil behavior.

But, people who find it uncomfortable to get past 1st grade Sunday school (i.e. most American "Christians") cannot be bothered with such realities. Providing sustenance for aged parents is TOTALLY different from observing obedience to their wishes. The "Honor" in that Commandment is where the word "Honorarium" came from that the lawyers came up with to fleece their clients. 

As to your other points, I basically agree. The point of contention you and I have has to do with the source of our decision making mental and spiritual software, not what good Christian behavior is.

My Christianity has been tainted by lots of subversive influences.  Tantra. Taoism. Astrology. Past Lives. Karma. Dharma. LSD. Peyote. Mushrooms. Meditation.

All kinds of unsubstantiated hocus pocus. I'm a spiritual sponge. I soak it all up and when I dry out there is a little bit of all of it still inside me. It is as it is supposed to be. That's my faith.

I have no hope of influencing you in any positive way, or of convincing you that my belief system has any merit, or that anything in the world of spirituality is correct besides your limited personal interpretation of Jesus's message as perceived by a nosebleed Type One.

But I won't willingly stand by and listen to you badmouth me. You aren't qualified to do that, and I won't allow it.

You don't hold the moral high ground here that you erroneously assume that you do. You have your own work to do, and it's late in the game for you. You should worry less about my **** and more about your own ****.


This is the only comment I'll make on this thread, because it is prima facie absurd. Reminds me of the old rock tune with the lyric, 
"My girl is red hot, your girl ain't doodle squat..." except substitute "God" for "girl." A POV underpinning every pointless squabble on the face of the earth.

This resonated for me:

Quote
I'm a spiritual sponge. I soak it all up and when I dry out there is a little bit of all of it still inside me. It is as it is supposed to be. That's my faith.

Our faith tempered by experience makes us who we are. Seems self-evident to me.

Not sure I get your POV either. I didn't mean it the way you took it, that's for sure. If I had to rephrase what I meant, it would be :

"I have my own belief system. It's  a hodge-podge made up of many influences. But it's mine, it's legitimate, and I won't listen to some really ignorant and judgmental jerk try to take it apart.

Better?

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but Surly's point is 100% valid in regard to this subject. I think what Surly is trying to say is as follows:

When discussing the term, "Christianity", different people get a totally different picture in their heads. For example, a fighter pilot gets a picture of a fighter plane when he hears the word, "F16".



But, a photographer gets a totally different picture in his head when he hears the word, "F16".




All that said, you and I pretty much understand each other. I think that Works without Faith are as empty as Faith without Works. You think that's for the guilt ridden. 

I don't understand your hangup with guilt. For the life of me, I don't feel any particular guilt for having a fallen nature. I was born with it. You and Yogananda, however, eschew all that "fallen nature" business. Sir, that is so basically UNChristian it boggles the mind that anyone could reject the Biblical teachings about human fallen nature, the ONLY reason Christ had to die for us, and claim to be Christian.

Nevertheless, I understand that your "F16" is rather different from my F16. When we die, that issue will be cleared up permanently.

The Book of James makes it rather clear that the cornerstone of Christianity is Faith, even before the admonition that good works MUST accompany Christian Faith. Good works come forth only if the person actually lives their Faith.

Good Works without Christian Faith are laudable, but they are not in any way related to Chritianity. Verse 18 is often taken out of context to make the case that the bottom Christian line is WORKS, as many New Age folks claim. Capter 2: Verse 22 begins to clear that up. Then, verse 24 makes it crystal clear that Faith (see: "only") is a sine qua non Christian precondition to  Good Chrisitian Works.

The following is sine qua non to being a Christian (Agelbert's F16 WITHOUT QUOTES ):

Quote
James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


To Agent Graves:
Thank you for changing your icon.  :emthup:  :icon_sunny: Now I feel free to read your posts.
I am certain you view my stuffed shirt prude outlook as a weakness. You are right. I do what I can. Welcome to the Doomstead Diner. Here you will have a front row seat on the collapse of industrial civilization. Most of us here feel it is baked in (pun intended  ;)).

RE,
You know that I hunger and thirst for justice as much as anybody else. I have skills that make me a very, very potentially dangerous person. As to being as evil as you can possibly be, I probably take the prize here for past thoughts that, thankfully, I never had the opportunity to carry out. Jesus said that if you THINK approvingly and willfully of doing something (e.g. adultery) you have already committed that sin.

Well, sin covers a lot of behavioral ground. As an Intelligence Operations Specialist, while in training at Lowry AFB, Colorado in 1967, I prepared a bombing run as an exercise to destroy two major airfields in Hanoi, Noth Vietnam. I went to Bombing Encyclopedia (a LARGE document prepared by the USAF with the radar signature of EVERY CITY in the world - including US cities ) and looked up the included nuclear weapon yield. After doing some math, I realized that two nukes with smaller yelds would do more damage than one big one. Besides, B52s could carry the slightly smaller ones easier. If that mission had taken place, I would have shared the responsibility for killing over one million people plus animals and foliage, followed by horrendous misery and death for hundreds of thousands others within a year or so. Yeah, it was just an exercise. BUT, I can tell you right now I would have carried it out without batting a BRAINWASHED eyelid.   

Paul ain't got nuttin' on me. I am the CHIEF among sinners. So, I have a LOT to be grateful for by Jesus Christ coming into my life. I know how to fly the big jets too. I am confident that I will never use my dastardly skills to kill. But you never know. Being a Christian is a daily struggle, not for the feint of heart. I am NOT a nice guy. My good works behavior and willingness to forego revenge for the evil visited on me an many fellow humans for Christ is the result of God's grace, PERIOD.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 31, 2018, 09:00:15 pm »

Quote
I'm not sure you've actually heard my definition of Christianity. ... Profession of faith, Confession of sins, baptism of some sort.

That's a pretty unusual set of rituals.  As a non-Christian (baptised at birth) it is hard to take you to task over your definition of what Christianity is, but surely it has got to have something to do with believing in the rightness of what Jesus preached - "love your enemies as much as yourself", "turn the other cheek" and not to put yourself first all the time. Given you think my hermit lifestyle is proof of something bad (not sure quite what) could you please explain that in plain language without citing someone else, without riddles, and without Amerikan slang.

Well, I think Palloy has hit the semantic nail right on the head. I rarely agree with him, but he is right here.

Eddie, I am curious. Do you actually think the USA was EVER a Christian country? The Founding Fathers were deists, NOT Christians. Their pattern for government was the Roman Republic of the Roman Empire. They were imperialists from the word go. This country's beliefs are, and always have been, based on MIGHT EQUALS RIGHT, PERIOD.

Yes, the US is very much a Christian country and always has been.

The Founding Fathers were more educated, philosophically oriented, and generally perhaps a bit more enlightened than the rank and file citizens of the early days. We were greatly influenced by all the splinter group protestant religions that arose in Europe and then were brought here by those looking for a place to practice their various sectarian brands of Christianity without interference from the State.

They were mostly alike in that they were the high-guilt, sins-of-the-father-visited-on-the-son brand of hell-fire and damnation Christianity.

America forever is stained with the stiff-necked, self-righteous dogma of the Puritans. It is the Puritans I blame for much of what is wrong with our culture.


Guilt is the LAST thing Americans, especially the Founding Exploiters, have ever been known for. A people that wallow in guilt don't calmly go about conning the natives until they get enough power and population to kill them off, Eddie. Might equals Right is NOT Christian doctrine. NO, this country was never Christian in any way, shape or form, just like the Catholic church was never a Christian organization. So, I will disagree with you totally on that. This country is pagan to the core. The "Christian" thing was always a clever fig leaf to cover the ruthless greed of the elites AND the citizenry.

My best understanding of Jesus I gained not from Texas doctrine, but from reading Yogananda, who completely GOT Jesus, imho. He was so interested in trying to explain Jesus to Americans that he wrote two whole books about it, neither of whom ever got much attention.

Was Yogananda a Christian? Specifically, did Yogananda believe that Jesus Christ was, and is, God? If not, Yogananda was focusing on the teachings, not the supernatural nature of grace and the action of the Holy Spirit. That is, again, the belief that humans can actually follow Christ's teachings by the force of their own "Godlike" will. Did Yogananda believe in Karma? Karma is a replacement for God's answer to sin without God. That is, quite frankly, a blasphemy if associated with Chritianity or Jesus Christ.

Gandhi, like you, said he liked Christianity (i.e. SOME, not all, of Christ's teachings) but wasn't too impressed with the unChristian behavior of Christians.

I respectfully, but totally, disagree with your definition of Christianity. Knarf, the Bhuddist, is quite Christian in his behavior towards fellow humans and the life forms around him. That does not make him a Christian.

Your behavior towards your neighbors is ethical and laudable, but that does not make you a Christian. I am sure Yogananda, if he lives still, is a principled human with laudable behavior. But as long he claims Jesus was not God, Yogonanda, like Gandhi, Knarf and you, is not a Christian. Monotheism is not negotiable in Christianity.

Nice conversation and no hard feelings about a single thing on my part. I hope I didn't say anything you found offensive. I understand and respect your brand of Christian faith. And your works are substantial and speak for themselves.

Yogananda talked a lot about what he called Christ Consciousness. I'm not sure I can explain that very succinctly, although it makes sense to me.

I can't really say that I think he was a Christian... by your measure and by the New Testament, no, I don't think he was a Christian.

I'm pretty sure he did not ever undergo a baptism and confess his sins and accept Christ as I was taught was necessary.

Did he give his life to God? Yes. He very much did that. I recommend his autobiography. Steve Jobs, btw, was said to have given away many, many  copies to people, as he thought it was the most important book people could ever read.

I'm not sure you've actually heard my definition of Christianity. In my post above I repeated what many, many Christian ministers have said. Not just the church I grew up in, which was very fundie, but also every one of the other Christian churches I ever sat through a sermon in, which is quite a few. All protestant, however. They all agreed on the basics. Profession of faith, Confession of sins, baptism of some sort.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think just going through the motions means much. I agree that it does not. Many "Christians" are going through the motions. And Palloy is right, that many of them are brainwashed. But it isn't just TV. They're brainwashed in church too. That has become prevalent, unfortunately.


I've read quite a bit about "Christ consciousness". You will probably disagree, but it is based on a person using their OWN WILL to DO Christ and/or to "channel" the "ascended master" thing that Jesus has allegedly achieved. That does involve spiritual experience, but it is not the Holy Spirit doing the action in the person. So, any true Christian must reject it.

Sorry to be so frank, but, I was exposed to a lot of the New Age stuff before I finally gave myself to Christ. I am no spring chicken. I went through the whole reincarnation belief structure too and read several books about this amazingly logical karmic multi-life structure. I was attracted by the apparent balance  (i.e. hope for justice for all). Unfortuantely, the whole ball of metaphysical wax there revolves around the SELF, not God. It is 100% against everything that Christ taught.

The brainwashing done in the "Christian" churches, since (and long before) this country began, was, and is, exclusively for the purpose of suckering the rubes to conflate the National Flag with God so they will be willing to die for empire in wars. It has ZIP to do with Christianity.

The "hell and damantion" thing IS Christian, whether you and I and Yogananda like it or not. ;)  BUT, if that pack of lying preachers had actually believed in Hell and Damnation as punishment for evil behavior, they would not have trained Americans to love money and do whatever necessary, including "God" approved murder and mayhem in other countries, to GET IT!

Sure, every other country from Spain to England to France to Italy to Russia to Germany (e.g. Gott Mit Uns!) has pulled the same con on their people. That does NOT make it Christian. That just proves that religion was hijacked in the propaganda service of the warmongering state! The problem is the STATE, not the Christian Faith.

You are fond of lambasting that war promoting propaganda effort everywhere else but you think it is some kind of simple con game to get money out of people in the "Christian" churches? It goes WAY BEYOND THAT! And, you know it. Lambast away at those Texas megachurches! They deserve to be burned to the ground and every crooked "Christian" pastor forced to give back all the money they conned out of the rubes. All I ask is that you use quotes around the word "Christian" when you speak of those devils.

Eddie, I don't have a "brand" of Christianity. You are free to call it that but I hasten to add that the basic tenets of the Christian Faith require worshipping God. That's the one, the only, God. That is not some monist "we are all one and we are actually worshipping ourselves" concept. Monism is basphemy.

My major complaint with these discussions with you is that you refuse to make a distinction between Christians and "Christians" behaviorwise, never mind the Heinz 57 number of excuses for "Christianity" out there. You claim this fellow Yogananda really understood Jesus. Well, I am CERTAIN that he rejected absolutely everything Jesus Christ said about Hell and Damnation. A person can't claim to know Jesus Christ and reject His rather frequent warnings of "outer darkness" and such for those who rejected His teachings by replacing Divine punishment with some Karma mechanism. That's just more cherry picking the Gospel for convenience.

Yogananda never served God if he believed in Karma, no matter how righteous his behavior was. Works without Faith are as empty as Faith without Works.

We can go back and forth forever defining either the Christian TALK (doctrine, rituals, etc.) and/or the Christian WALK (respect for our neighbors and daily submission to God's will through prayer) but it is clear that I can never convince you that the WALK MUST accompany the TALK for a person to be a Christian. 

So, believe what you will. May God guide your thoughts, words and deeds, Amen.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 31, 2018, 02:51:13 pm »


Well said.

However, I think the rich backers of Trump are effectively taking a long walk off a short pier. Yes, we will all go down together. Life on Earth is aptly named the valley of tears.

I am looking forward to life after this life.

Some may say that is a defeatist attitude. I say, as a student of climate science and human history, the interminable hostility of greedy humans to each other and the continued, willful insane destruction of the biosphere 'seed corn' that allows human existence are behavioral problems can only be fixed by God modifying human nature so we ALL think altruistically, instead of greedily.

I don't see Him doing that any time soon.
 


I quite agree. WE are the pillow the rich will land on which the entire rotten edifice falls down.


That will be a mighty hard pillow.  The problem for the Rich is they won't be Rich after a collapse of the monetary system.

RE


Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 31, 2018, 02:42:09 pm »

Christianity in the FSoA is defined by its Spokesmodels.


RE

They wear the label, but they need to be called "Christians", not Christians. There is NOTHING about those con artist front men for empire murder and mayhem that is Christian in ANY WAY!

Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 31, 2018, 02:33:23 pm »

Eddie, you were raised in Texas with Christian doctrine and I was raised in Kansas with serious (walk the talk, not like most Catholics) Catholic doctrine.

Later on I went to an evangelical Christian church, learned sound doctrine, and observed while almost nobody followed it. They threw me out.  ;D
 
All of that is water under the bridge. You and I have seen first hand thoughout our lives how people cherry pick portions of the Gospel to suit their greed and their selfish needs.

That IS the issue with Chritianity. That is what causes so many people to walk away from these so-called "Christian" churches AND keeps a lot of Catholics in the fold, so to speak, because Catholicism focuses on the "we are all sinners and that's life" convenient cop out for egregiously routine sinful behavior with no attempt whatsoever to follow Chistian ethics, except with lip service.

Also, the nominal "Christian" evangelicals who claim they can party because it's all "under the blood" are in the exact same category of reprobates as most Catholics are.

What this teaching of Jesus Christ is all about, and as you know sticks in most people's craw, is that, without God's grace through the Holy spirit, you cannot walk the Christian talk.

Some people throw up their hands and say it is victim psychology and anyone with a minimum of pride and two brain cells to rub together should reject Christianity.

Yep, most people do that. And they DO THAT because human society celebrates the strength of human will, resolve, fortitude, and so on. It's important to have those qualities, but they are a stumblig block if they are the foundation of a person's personality. They MUST be secondary in the true Christian.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ makes it crystal clear that your will is not worth a tinker's damn. THAT really torques a lot of people who feel they can control their behavior and are ethical to the core. Well, they are full of pride, not ethics. They are fooling themselves (and a lot of other people too).

As humans, we can only judge the veracity or not of what people say they are with what they do. And even that is not totally reliable because sometimes people have a bad day and abuse those around them. So, we just try to get a general track record of what they do as it lines up, or not, with what they say.

BUT, we are NOT God. The instant we put ourselves in that role, as too many here routinely do, we are not going to be objective about what sinful behavior is and what it is not simply because God, by definition, DOES NOT SIN. At that point the person who fancies himself to "have the big picture", will use every bit of pretzel logic in existence from Machiavelli to Orwell to justify whatever he wants to do and condemn whoever he conveniently wants to condemn.

That's idolatry of the self. That is what most "Christians" in the USA DO. That is what atheist DO. That is what this country is all about! Christianity is a joke to most "Christians".

What God will do with this mess is His problem. My categorical imperative (apologies to Kant  ;D) as a Christian is to ask, each and every day, NOT what God can do for me, but what God wants me to do for Him. The INSTANT that God is not in the driver's seat of my decision making software, I am NOT a Christian, PERIOD.


My best understanding of Jesus I gained not from Texas doctrine, but from reading Yogananda, who completely GOT Jesus, imho. He was so interested in trying to explain Jesus to Americans that he wrote two whole books about it, neither of whom ever got much attention.




Was Yogananda a Christian? Specifically, did Yogananda believe that Jesus Christ was, and is, God? If not, Yogananda was focusing on the teachings, not the supernatural nature of grace and the action of the Holy Spirit. That is, again, the belief that humans can actually follow Christ's teachings by the force of their own "Godlike" will. Did Yogananda believe in Karma? Karma is a replacement for God's answer to sin without God. That is, quite frankly, a blasphemy if associated with Chritianity or Jesus Christ.

Gandhi, like you, said he liked Christianity (i.e. SOME, not all, of Christ's teachings) but wasn't too impressed with the unChristian behavior of Christians.

I respectfully, but totally, disagree with your definition of Christianity. Knarf, the Bhuddist, is quite Christian in his behavior towards fellow humans and the life forms around him. That does not make him a Christian.

Your behavior towards your neighbors is ethical and laudable, but that does not make you a Christian. I am sure Yogananda, if he lives still, is a principled human with laudable behavior. But as long he claims Jesus was not God, Yogonanda, like Gandhi, Knarf and you, is not a Christian. Monotheism is not negotiable in Christianity.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 31, 2018, 01:57:56 pm »

US barking up the wrong trade tree

And therein lies the cruelest twist of all. China is the US' low-cost provider of imported consumer goods. The Trump 🦀 deal would shift the Chinese piece of the US' multilateral imbalance to higher-cost imports from elsewhere - the functional equivalent of a tax hike on US families. As Hoover's ghost might ask, what's so great about that?


What many Trump apologists fail to note is that NOTHING that Trump does is for the good of the "'Murkin pee-pul." It is for the good of Trump, his immediate family and his criminal grift and money-laundering enterprise. Cabinet members and hangers-on get to grab as much as they can for as long as they can as long as the window  remains open, and devil take the hindmost. The Russia investigation notwithstanding, a not corrupt Congress would have already impeached and convicted Trump, for emoluments clause violations alone. The scale of the corruption is truly staggering, making the Grant and Harding administrations look like so many convent devotees.

The rich will be just fine, as the rich are always fine. It is Trump's supporters who will find themselves further dispossessed and broke, and who will be encouraged to take out their ire on someone younger, browner, poorer. Fleece the rubes: Wash, rinse, repeat. It always works.
Yeah, I know. Here come the choruses of "Both-sides-do-it," "whataboutism," "but-her-emails," and "****."


Well said.

However, I think the rich backers of Trump are effectively taking a long walk off a short pier. Yes, we will all go down together. Life on Earth is aptly named the valley of tears.

I am looking forward to life after this life.

Some may say that is a defeatist attitude. I say, as a student of climate science and human history, the interminable hostility of greedy humans to each other and the continued, willful insane destruction of the biosphere 'seed corn' that allows human existence are behavioral problems can only be fixed by God modifying human nature so we ALL think altruistically, instead of greedily.

I don't see Him doing that any time soon. 





Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 31, 2018, 01:28:42 pm »

Eddie, with all due respect, I think your definition of a nominal Christian requires quotes around the word "Christian".

A Christian does NOT EVER make money and economic prosperity his goal in life (See: SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and so on).

A Christian does NOT EVER support government action that murders foreigners in their lands for corporate profit.

A Christian does NOT EVER consider himself better than any other human being, of whatever religion or culture or skin color.

If you think a person can be a Christian and not behave as I just described, then you are confusing those reprobates who wear the label of "Christian" as a con to take people for a ride with a real Christian.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 31, 2018, 01:27:55 pm »

Quote
Eddie: And Palloy doesn't get why I'm a bit conflicted by the current flavor of Christianity in the world.

That is because you call them Christians, instead of "Christians", and you call yourself Christian as well, but you consider yourself different from them.  So it is very hard to understand what you mean.

All I am saying is "highest duty is to myself and my family" is NOT a Christian saying, it is a Bernaysian saying used by rich American fake Christians to justify their selfish deeds.


I said I was a Christian. I didn't say I was Jesus Christ.

Jesus said to "love your neighbor as yourself".

Neighbor. Get that, Commandante?

Like Jesus described, I practice my Christianity locally. When the die-off comes, if I'm still around, I expect I'll have plenty of opportunities to be a good Christian.

He didn't say:

"Seize the means of production, form a collective, and divide the proceeds so that the greatest good is accomplished for the greatest number."

or

"Blow up the Parliament with a keg of gunpowder to protest the oppression of the masses."


He did say (when pressed by some guys that remind me of you) "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

I never said that putting myself and my family ahead of all the miserable starving people in the world was a Christian saying. It's the most simple law there is. The law of the jungle. If you don't think you're controlled by that law, you're crazy.


“On the day of the hunt I came to know in the slick center of my bones this one thing; all animals kill to survive, and we are animals. The lion kills the baboon, the baboon kills fat grasshoppers. The elephant tears up living trees, dragging their precious roots from the dirt they love....And we, even if we had no meat or even grass to gnaw, still boil our water to kill the invisible creatures that would like to kill us first. And swallow quinine pills. The death of something living is the price of our own survival, and we pay it again and again. We have no choice. It is the one solemn promise every life on earth is born and bound to keep.”


 


Eddie, you were raised in Texas with Christian doctrine and I was raised in Kansas with serious (walk the talk, not like most Catholics) Catholic doctrine.

Later on I went to an evangelical Christian church, learned sound doctrine, and observed while almost nobody followed it. They threw me out.  ;D
 
All of that is water under the bridge. You and I have seen first hand thoughout our lives how people cherry pick portions of the Gospel to suit their greed and their selfish needs.

That IS the issue with Chritianity. That is what causes so many people to walk away from these so-called "Christian" churches AND keeps a lot of Catholics in the fold, so to speak, because Catholicism focuses on the "we are all sinners and that's life" convenient cop out for egregiously routine sinful behavior with no attempt whatsoever to follow Chistian ethics, except with lip service.

Also, the nominal "Christian" evangelicals who claim they can party because it's all "under the blood" are in the exact same category of reprobates as most Catholics are.

What this teaching of Jesus Christ is all about, and as you know sticks in most people's craw, is that, without God's grace through the Holy spirit, you cannot walk the Christian talk.

Some people throw up their hands and say it is victim psychology and anyone with a minimum of pride and two brain cells to rub together should reject Christianity.

Yep, most people do that. And they DO THAT because human society celebrates the strength of human will, resolve, fortitude, and so on. It's important to have those qualities, but they are a stumblig block if they are the foundation of a person's personality. They MUST be secondary in the true Christian.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ makes it crystal clear that your will is not worth a tinker's damn. THAT really torques a lot of people who feel they can control their behavior and are ethical to the core. Well, they are full of pride, not ethics. They are fooling themselves (and a lot of other people too).

As humans, we can only judge the veracity or not of what people say they are with what they do. And even that is not totally reliable because sometimes people have a bad day and abuse those around them. So, we just try to get a general track record of what they do as it lines up, or not, with what they say.

BUT, we are NOT God. The instant we put ourselves in that role, as too many here routinely do, we are not going to be objective about what sinful behavior is and what it is not simply because God, by definition, DOES NOT SIN. At that point the person who fancies himself to "have the big picture", will use every bit of pretzel logic in existence from Machiavelli to Orwell to justify whatever he wants to do and condemn whoever he conveniently wants to condemn.

That's idolatry of the self. That is what most "Christians" in the USA DO. That is what atheist DO. That is what this country is all about! Christianity is a joke to most "Christians".

What God will do with this mess is His problem. My categorical imperative (apologies to Kant  ;D) as a Christian is to ask, each and every day, NOT what God can do for me, but what God wants me to do for Him. The INSTANT that God is not in the driver's seat of my decision making software, I am NOT a Christian, PERIOD.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 31, 2018, 12:14:50 pm »

And Palloy doesn't get why I'm a bit conflicted by the current flavor of Christianity in the world. Evangelicals are completely delusional. Someone should tell them it's a small planet and that the Good News has already made it around the globe. The only people left to convert are the hungry people with no food. They'll listen to anything if you're buying dinner.

Everybody else already knows all about how God so loved the world that he sent white men with funny hair in private jets to fleece them for their spare change.


Preacher Asks Followers To Help Buy Fourth Private Jet For $54 Million

One would think that by the time you are buying your 4th private jet, you can afford it on your own; well in the case of US televangelist Jesse Duplantis, that's not the case: it turns out Jesse decided to share the burden of his newest toy with his followers, asking them to help fund his fourth private jet because Jesus "wouldn't be riding a donkey".

In other words, Jesse Duplantis said God had told him to buy a Falcoln 7X for $54 million.


And while according to BBC he was hesitant at first about the ridiculous purchase, when God told him "I didn't ask you to pay for it. I asked you to believe for it", all his doubts faded away.

While there have been similar ridiculous past requests by tele-evangelists, who pray on the stupid and the gullible, this particular appeal caused immediate controversy, and as noted by BBC, Twitter exploded with many users responding to the request with shock and disbelief, some quoting Bible verses warning against greed and "false prophets", or suggesting that the money could be better used to help the poor; others simply decided to slam the charlatan "preacher."

The belligerent responses, however, did not stop Duplantis: in a video address posted on his website, the 68-year-old explained: "You know, I've owned three different jets in my life, and I've used them and just burning them up for the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Now, some people believe that preachers shouldn't have jets. I really believe that preachers ought to go on every available voice, every available outlet, to get this Gospel preached to the world."


Standing beside framed pictures of his current fleet, he said that the jet he bought 12 years ago was no longer sufficient for his ministry because he could not fly non-stop, meaning he had to pay "exorbitant" refuelling costs. And what god allows his preachers to have to deal with that...

Jesse Duplantis
@jesse_duplantis
 Watch "this Week with Jesse" as Jesse shows the importance of using aviation as an amazing tool for evangelizing the world! Tune in each Monday at http://jdm.org  or on our JDM App. Click to watch http://bit.ly/2leCz7E

3:00 PM - May 21, 2018
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In another picture which appeared in the video, the preacher stands with the three aircraft, above the caption: "It's not about possessions, it's about priorities."

To be sure, Duplantis came prepared and justified his request by saying that Jesus had told people to "go into the world and preach the Gospel to every creature, now how we gonna do that? I can't live long enough to travel by car or by ship or by train, but I can do it by an aeroplane".

In retrospect, flawless logic, and we certainly understand his motivation: surely there will be enough idiots within his "flock" who defray the $54 million purchase price; but why the fixation with private Well, in 2015, Mr Duplantis appeared in a video with another preacher, Kenneth Copeland, in which Mr Copeland described travelling on commercial airlines as being "in a long tube with a bunch of demons".

Come to think of it, he may be correct.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-31/preacher-asks-followers-help-buy-fourth-private-jet-54-million

Eddie, it gets better.  ;)

During the horrendous rains from Hurricane Harvey in Texas, a certain mega church prosperity preaching "Christian" (Palloy is right that anyone who doesn't walk the talk should not call themselves that without quotes) who never says ZIP about sin or sacrifice but just talks about lovey dovey and so on, REFUSED to open his church as a shelter for those flooded out. I don't remember that soul of perdition's name, but that is one the biggest "Christian" churches in the USA. So it goes.

Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 20, 2018, 07:08:42 pm »

Thank you AG. For your time and your excellent reply. Lots to think about there, and I will. Thank you again.

You are welcome.

   
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: May 20, 2018, 02:46:24 pm »


There will be a lot of pieces to put back together, all at once, when he is gone.


Can the Republic Recover from Donald Trump?
here will be a lot of pieces to put back together, all at once, when he is gone.

Yates asked the assembled: What is going to happen when this administration is finally, blessedly over? It is a very good question and there is no very good answer to it.

This is a rhetorical question. Yates, and Charlie Pierce both are smart enough to figure out the answer.

It isn't Trump that's the worst problem. At some point he will be gone. The real problem is that the worst of the worst Americans, the Kochs, have finally captured the Executive branch in the same way they have successfully captured the Congress and state government.  It's game over folks. Checkmate.

Will you vote for President Pence, or President Scott Walker?  Or maybe President Greg Abbott.  Maybe Bob McDonnell of Virginia will run, now that his several criminal convictions have been reversed. They all know where to get the money. America's good Christian community will support them all the way.

They will lower taxes for any unfortunate point O-1 Percenters still left with a tax bill. They will make it legal to mine for coal where your house sits. They will drill for oil in Coral Bay, and bomb Turkey.[/size]

The USA is a disguised military dictatorship. Military dictatorships are the worse kind of parasite on an economy. Their main products are death and pollution.

We are toast.

 

You are absolutely correct AG. Because Trump and/or Clinton and/or Pence and/or any others that Eddie just named are merely symptoms of the lack of morals and integrity in this whole society which no longer is unified by any values but the worship of money and hedonism and selfishness. The entire world is being murdered and destroyed by these Satanists. They are Satanists because they are out to wallow in the destruction of everything even including themselves. Can God prevail? Or must he start over?

If God is God, then He/She/It cannot do anything but prevail. Most readers here at the Doomstead Diner either are atheists who disdain the "psychololigal weak minded crutch" of worshipping the Deity OR do not really give a fork as long as said Deity does not require worship and obedience to any moral code. The former claim to be "ethical".  Their only "ethics" based behavioral code is "might equals right" (Orwell lives!). The latter are an egotistical bunch that cannot, and will not, accept any constraints on their behavior by some uppity Deity that never asked them permission to be born into this plane of existence.

I KNOW that God IS God. I may never prevail, but God will prevail. Though for many years I was angrily frustrated about the lack of justice in human society, I now finally realize and accept the fact that no human has the mental equipment to question God's apparent lack of name takin' and ass kickin' on this planet.

Yeah, we've been trying to do that for a long, long time (see below).

Jeremiah 12 King James Version (KJV)

1 Righteous art thou, O Lord, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of thy judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?

2 Thou hast planted them, yea, they have taken root: they grow, yea, they bring forth fruit: thou art near in their mouth, and far from their reins.


Jeremiah was thoroughly bent out of shape when he wrote this. The next few passages has him asking for God to slaughter the bad guys with all sorts of colorful blood and guts mayhem.

3 But thou, O Lord, knowest me: thou hast seen me, and tried mine heart toward thee: pull them out like sheep for the slaughter, and prepare them for the day of slaughter.

4 How long shall the land mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein? the beasts are consumed, and the birds; because they said, He shall not see our last end.


I've been there with that. Many readers here, whether they worship themselves or the Law of Conservation of Energy  ;D, also want to kill off all the bad guys.

True, blessed are those folks who hunger and thirst for justice. So, I will not judge harshly those who want to kill off all the bad people making life difficult to miserable for the rest of us.

Their logic is sound as long as there is no afterlife.

I firmly believe there is an afterlife. I firmly believe this portion of human existence is an embryonic proving ground.

What comes after is as different as a majestic Sequoia tree is from a tiny seed.

Due to the inherent limitations of  a seed versus a tree, I can understand why so many other seeds around here think I am full of horse poopy.

Another analogy to the self-limiting modus vivendi of these seeds is Plato's Cave. I've seen what's on the outside of that cave. Nothing that goes on inside the cave compares to it. The cynical wishful thinkers that firmly believe that this cave of shadow boxing baloney is all there is are DEAD wrong.

I used to be just like them. But I finally got to a place where the real water of life cleared things up for me.


I still get depressed and I still rant about injustice, but I know all this is temporary. God IS God. I am not now, or ever will be, God. My job is to obey He/She/It, whether I like it or not. Seeds should never presume to know what it is like to be a Sequoia.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: March 29, 2018, 08:31:08 pm »

Posted by: AGelbert
« on: March 09, 2018, 05:50:03 pm »



Christian Dominionists 😈 Meet at Trump's Washington Hotel to Answer the "Divine 😈 Call to War"

Friday, March 09, 2018

By Bill Berkowitz, Truthout | News Analysis

SNIPPET:

Though they are not nearly as well known as Christian Right leaders, such as Jerry Falwell Jr., Franklin Graham and Robert Jeffress Jr., top Dominionist leaders  like Dutch Sheets, Chuck Pierce, Cindy Jacobs and Lou Engle are a force worth paying attention to.

Those leaders, according to People for the American Way's Right Wing Watch, "are associated with the New Apostolic Reformation, which believes a triumphant, dominion-taking church 😈 will help bring about the return of Christ, and many are part of POTUS Shield 😈 , a network of self-described apostles 😈 and prophets 😈 who believe  ;) President Trump 🦀 was anointed by God to help bring that all about."

full article (bring your barf bag):

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/43793-christian-dominionists-meet-at-trump-s-washington-hotel-to-answer-the-divine-call-to-war

Agelbert NOTE: These people ARE NOT CHRISTIANS! The are pseudo-Christians that embody the Spirit of the ANTI-Christ in the USA. The Bible is VERY CLEAR about how you should treat people claiming to be brothers in Christ who's behavior evidences them as crooks and liars: You are not supposed to associate with them or even eat with them. The fact that these bastards worship Trump is evidence that they are not real Christians.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: February 27, 2018, 06:44:16 pm »



February 21, 2018
How Billy Graham 🐉 Evangelized for American Empire 🦖

Rev. Billy Graham gave his blessing to every military conflict under every president, from Truman to Bush II - Cecil Bothwell writes
By Cecil Bothwell

SNIPPET:

Born on a prosperous dairy farm and educated at Wheaton College, Graham first gained national attention in 1949 when the publishing magnate William Randolph Hearst, searching for a spiritual icon to spread his anti-communist sentiments, discovered the young preacher holding forth at a Los Angeles tent meeting. Hearst wired his editors across the nation, “puff Graham,” and he was an instant sensation.

Hearst next contacted his friend and fellow publisher Henry Luce . Their Wall Street ally, Bernard Baruch , arranged a meeting between Luce and Graham while the preacher was staying with the segregationist Governor Strom Thurmond 🦀 in the official mansion in Columbia, S.Car. Luce concurred with Hearst about Graham’s marketability and Time and Life were enlisted in the job of selling the soap of salvation to the world. Time, alone, has run more than 600 stories about Graham.

The man who would become known as “the minister to presidents” offered his first military advice in 1950. On June 25, North Korean troops invaded South Korea and Graham sent Truman a telegram:

“MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS PRAYING GOD GIVE YOU WISDOM IN THIS CRISIS. STRONGLY URGE SHOWDOWN WITH COMMUNISM NOW. MORE CHRISTIANS IN SOUTHERN KOREA PER CAPITA THAN ANY PART OF WORLD. WE CANNOT LET THEM DOWN.”

It was the first time Graham encouraged a president to go to war, and with characteristic hyperbole: Korea has never topped the list of Christian-leaning nations. Subsequently, Graham gave his blessing to every conflict under every president from Truman to the second Bush, and most of the presidents, pleased to enjoy public assurance of God’s approval, made him welcome in the White House. Graham excoriated Truman for firing General Douglas MacArthur and supported the general’s plan to invade China. He went so far as to urge Nixon to bomb dikes in Vietnam—knowing that it would kill upward of a million civilians—and he claimed to have sat on the sofa next to G.H.W. Bush as the bombs began falling in the first Gulf War (though Bush’s diary version of the evening somehow excludes Graham, as does a White House video of Bush during the attack).

Full article:

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=21188
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: February 18, 2018, 10:52:39 pm »

The Book Of Revelation Animated Full Movie - King James Bible
237,962 views


Grace John

Published on Feb 18, 2016

The Book Of Revelation Animated Full Movie - King James Bible
BLESSED IS HE that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. Revelation 1:3
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: February 18, 2018, 07:06:43 pm »

The Apocalypse and the End Times

By Archeologist Investigator Bob Cornuke 


GET News

Published on Aug 26, 2016
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: February 07, 2018, 02:25:47 pm »

🕊
Quote
2 Timothy 3:1-4

1 You must understand this: In the last days there will be violent periods of time.

2 People 🦀 will be selfish and love money. They will brag, be arrogant, and use abusive language. They will curse their parents, show no gratitude, have no respect for what is holy,

3 and lack normal affection for their families. They will refuse to make peace with anyone. They will be slanderous, lack self-control, be brutal, and have no love for what is good.

4 They will be traitors. They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God.


🦀

FEB 06, 2018 TD ORIGINALS

A Country Without a Heart

Quote
In America, the almighty dollar 🦖 🦀 rules. Having a social conscience 🕊 is not part of the business model for most companies.


In 1972, Kurt Vonnegut covered the Republican National Convention in Miami Beach for Harper’s Magazine and wrote an essay about the experience, “In a Manner That Must Shame God Himself.”

According to Charles Shields, who wrote “And So It Goes: Kurt Vonnegut: A Life,” the title of the essay came from a flyer Vonnegut noticed that a group of Native Americans from various tribes were distributing at the convention. Part of the flyer read: “We come today in such a manner that must shame God himself. For a country that allows a complete body of people to exist in conditions which are at variance with the ideals of this country, conditions which daily commit injustices and inhumanity, must surely be filled with hate, greed, and unconcern.”

The same could be said about present-day America. In fact, during his reporting almost 50 years ago, Vonnegut, a master of irony, made another keen observation that applies today: “If I were a visitor from another planet, I would say … the two real political parties in America are the Winners and the Losers. The people do not acknowledge this. They claim membership in two imaginary parties, the Republicans and the Democrats, instead. Both imaginary parties are bossed by Winners. When Republicans battle Democrats, this much is certain: Winners will win.”

Vonnegut suggested that the “Winners’ 🦖 scheme … for lasting world peace 🦀” was simple: “Ignore agony.”

Full article:

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/country-without-heart/



Posted by: AGelbert
« on: November 23, 2017, 05:04:44 pm »

https://nypost.com/2017/11/22/how-a-homeless-mans-selfless-act-changed-his-life/

How a homeless man’s selfless act changed his life

What a wonderful story... A genuine miracle.



This is an example of a human that acted on principle, NOT on Maslow's hierarchy of selfish (SEE: Social Darwinsm) needs. The reason people like you and I find this sort of news heartwarming is because we understand, at a moral level, that this sort of behavior has merit that selfish, empathy deficit behavior does not.

The mockers are quick to claim we would all go broke if we behaved that way. That's hyperbole and a deliberate distortion of principled behavior to make it look like "irresponsible" behavior. The 'greed is good' crowd have been at that mendacious game since humans began to live in communities. Their mendacious claim, cleverly disguised as "prudent" advice, is, though they don't know it, Orwellian.

The fact is that achieving a society based on altruistic behavior is the only way that humanity will survive. This is the exact opposite of what the Social Darwinist Religionists believe.

Anybody with a lick of sense can see that human society is NOT getting better. Yet, most of those Social Darwinsits that point out the increasingly dangerous dysfunction of our society FLAT REFUSE to see the exact correlation between an increase in socially celebrated selfish behavior and the massive increase in social dysfunction.

I think I know why.

Quote
Proverbs 14

30 A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.

31 He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
Posted by: AGelbert
« on: October 30, 2017, 07:14:11 pm »

The Soul Of The Trump Administration


Thom takes a dark look into the Trump Administration's actions. How far will this go? A 10 year old is being detained... Really?

Thom Hartmann Oct. 27, 2017 4:30 pm

Quote
Matthew 25:

41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;

43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, in as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Posted by: AGelbert
« on: September 02, 2017, 08:04:18 pm »

End Times Prophecy includes Signs and Wonders. Although I am not certain, I am convinced that the massive environmental damage going on is evidence that we are in the End Times. This does not mean we are all supposed to ignore the criminal behavior of the polluters causing it. They belong in prison, not in corporate boardrooms or government.

Photo NASA
It is an eery photo, the solar eclipse hovering over the deep south of the US as tropical storm Harvey aims for Texas, making landfall 8 days later causing unprecedented damage and record amounts of rainfall.


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