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Author Topic: War Provocations and Peace Actions  (Read 10599 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2016, 11:21:25 pm »
M.I.C./Wall Street "LOGIC": The economy is in the tank and the people want a populist president!  The Russians are wining in Syria.  The Iranians gave their nuke stuff to the Russians so we can't scare loyal patriotic Americans into forcing us  ;D to bomb them by branding Iranians as Terrorist Atomic Ayatollas. Argh!   And those sneaky Iranians are starting to get visited by container ships! This is a catastrophe! Our military budget and our Wall Street Fascist Friends are BOTH in BIG trouble! .....
I guess it's time for the old "Remember the Maine/Gulf of Tonkin" Trick.   ;) 


U.S. Navy Says Video Shows Iranian Navy Firing Rockets Near Warships in Strait of Hormuz
SNIPPET:

Quote
January 10, 2016 by Reuters

By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (Reuters) – The U.S. Navy released black-and-white video on Saturday it said was taken by an American helicopter showing an Iranian Revolutionary Guards vessel firing unguided rockets on Dec. 26 near warships including the aircraft carrier USS Harry S Truman in the Strait of Hormuz.


Iran on Dec. 31 denied that its Revolutionary Guards vessels had launched the rockets as the United States claimed, with a Revolutionary Guards spokesman saying the “false” accusation was “akin to psychological warfare.”

https://gcaptain.com/2016/01/10/u-s-navy-video-shows-iran-navy-fire-rockets-near-warships-in-strait-of-hormuz/

Agelbert  Note;
Don't you just love how quotation marks are so cleverly used? Those propagandists know their properganda Just take the first paragraph and add a few quotation marks in places like, uh, e.g. --- "near" warship"s" "in the Strait of Hormuz", etc.   

Works every time! SUCKERS!   
 



Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #76 on: January 12, 2016, 02:08:36 pm »
M.I.C./Wall Street "LOGIC": The economy is in the tank and the people want a populist president!  The Russians are wining in Syria.  The Iranians gave their nuke stuff to the Russians so we can't scare loyal patriotic Americans into forcing us  ;D to bomb them by branding Iranians as Terrorist Atomic Ayatollas. Argh!   And those sneaky Iranians are starting to get visited by container ships! This is a catastrophe! Our military budget and our Wall Street Fascist Friends are BOTH in BIG trouble! .....
I guess it's time for the old "Remember the Maine/Gulf of Tonkin" Trick.   ;) 


U.S. Navy Says Video Shows Iranian Navy Firing Rockets Near Warships in Strait of Hormuz
SNIPPET:

https://gcaptain.com/2016/01/10/u-s-navy-video-shows-iran-navy-fire-rockets-near-warships-in-strait-of-hormuz/

Agelbert  Note;
Don't you just love how quotation marks are so cleverly used? Those propagandists know their properganda Just take the first paragraph and add a few quotation marks in places like, uh, e.g. --- "near" warship"s" "in the Strait of Hormuz", etc.   

Works every time! SUCKERS!   
 





The video never shows the aircraft carrier, and it cannot get the frigate and the tanker and the Iranian vessels in the same frame, even when at 11,000 yards range.  The rockets are clearly not being fired AT the tanker or anything else.  At worst they are fired parallel to the tanker's track and in the opposite direction, if anything, away from the tanker.  "only 23 minutes of advance notification of its intention to fire rockets" means they WERE given notice, and could have been at least 7 nautical miles further away, if they were the least bit worried.

The aircraft carrier and the frigate were gate-crashing the Iranians' test, to get a better look, and to complain about it afterwards.

All shipping in the shipping lanes have to pass through Iranian territorial waters, and have to ask permission to do so. 
US @ 0600: Iranian Shipping Transit Authority, this is USS Truman and party requesting permission to transit." 
ISTA @ 0600: There will be a sea-to-sea missile firing test from 0620 to 0630 at 26.355°N 54.991°W into the NE quadrant.  Please proceed with caution." 
US: "Thank you, understood. Out."

Hardly news, is it? - not compared to the world-shatteringly tragic news of the death of David Bowie, pop and fashion icon of the 20th century anyway.  Not to mention flying a "nuclear-capable" B-52 over South Korea 4 days after the nuclear test, just to show the North Koreans "We mean business."


Of course it is cheap propaganda. But most Americans will swallow it if repeated enough. Don't you remember the Bin Laden videos (that turned out to be fake)? They got over a trillion dollars of war profiteering out of THAT! 


Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2016, 12:01:44 am »
Quote
Can it finally be said that George W. Bush didn't lie about WMD's in Iraq?

Mike Bowerbank


Ross Cohen, B.A. in History & Political Science


There was a joke going around during the WMD debate that went something like this:
"How do the Americans know Saddam has chemical weapons?"
"They still have the sales receipts."
 
I hear apologists on the right say things like "Saddam was known to have chemical weapons, and chemical weapons are WMD, so Bush didn't lie" and it's a terrible, terrible distortion of the truth.
 
First of all, chemical weapons were not the WMD that were being discussed. We were told that Saddam was developing NUCLEAR weapons specifically. There was even that bogus "intelligence" that showed Saddam was acquiring yellow cake uranium from Niger. There is no real use for yellow cake except for nuclear weapons, so this was pretty damning stuff... except that it wasn't true.
 
Joe Wilson called BS on the yellow cake story, and the Bush White House sought revenge. Scooter Libby (widely believed upon the direct order of Dick Cheney) outed Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, as a CIA spy. (To this day I don't understand how that is not treason.) Cheney said Plame was "fair game".
 
So the whole "Saddam had chemical weapons, so the WMD wasn't a lie" is an unintelligent, disingenuous, and downright insulting attempt to justify the war that led to hundreds of thousands of deaths, trillions  in wasted money, and the current fustercluck we see in Iraq and Syria today. 
https://www.quora.com/Can-it-finally-be-said-that-George-W-Bush-didnt-lie-about-WMDs-in-Iraq

Agelbert NOTE: Yep. But it was also an excellent example of how Game Theory is employed by the IRRESPONSIBLE, LAZY, WELFARE QUEEN M.I.C. in the USA to make money off of we-the-people...

The problem with that method of "making money" is that you eventually run out of OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2016, 04:12:36 pm »
Week Eighteen of the Russian Intervention in Syria: A Dramatic Escalation Appears Imminent

    Excellent article. The Saker knows his stuff.

My only observation is that Russia is in a better position than the "coalition" to maintain air superiority. Unless somebody in the US oligarchy wants a shooting war with Russia based on lots of dead coalition troops, they will muzzle Turkey. Erdogan is in a precarious position in his country and he knows it. Sure, it would be just like him to try to invade in order to prevent his ouster due to the continued exposure of his massive corruption. But if that is green lighted by our knuckle draggers in the MIC, Erdogan is the designated fall guy because his troops will have their asses handed to them. I'm sure he has a few generals under him that may decide discretion is the better part of valor and act to depose Erdogan on some exposed corruption. Erdogan has so many skeletons in his closet that he could corner the calcium market in turkey!

Here's what Saker is missing. The MAIN reason all this S H I T goes on down there is because of a resource of polluting energy called oil. Russia has lots of oil and gas and Saker sees them the way the Russian government sees them (allegedly valuable energy sources).

Saker, therefore, does NOT see the connection between cratering fossil fuel prices worldwide and the coming peace in that region. I do.

It ain't about religion, no matter what we have been told. It never was. It's about "national interests".  "National interests" in the coalition are ALL ABOUT VALUABLE energy or mineral sources, PERIOD.

When something (that the MIC has been coveting and fighting over since Standard Oil took over most of this country's foreign policy predatory piggery) is no longer very valuable, the wind goes out of the sails of the Wall Street Greed MACHINE behind EVERY military action since WWII. Yes the doffense contractors will lose some money, but they were never in the driver's seat of our foreign policy, despite their war profiteering MO in every war this country has been involved with. The fossil fuel industry has DOMINATED US foreign policy for well over a century. And the fossil fuel industry is STRONG in Russia. So, they are as much stuck in their "real world" as the coalition is.

The bottom line is that people fight over valuable stuff. There is no money in fighting over oil producing regions anymore. This is BASIC game theory. Our MIC bases ALL its plans and actions on game theory, unlike Russia. The MONEY is now, because of the high tech snooping of everybody and his mother now available, in nickel and diming we-the-sheeple 24/7. It's mostly invisible and it keeps the oligarchs in place. The MIC is happy as long s they can "justify" the giant logistics swag they now enjoy required to operate all their bases. The MIC will, of course, continue to occasionally terrorize and butcher a few humans here and there to make sure congress doesn't forget the, uh, "national security" justification for the humongous budget we-the-suckers must provide for these Welfare Queens with very big teeth. The MIC is just as happy not having to lose any people in wars if the swag keeps coming in. And the weapons makers too because the military practices a LOT blowing stuff up and shooting bullets. Their Wall Street backed "business model" works great as long as we-the=suckers in the USA swallow their "national security" propaganda. I'm sure Lockheed Martin is grateful to all of us for helping fund their solar panel infrastructure improvements that will provide Renewable energy based electrical power for their weapons making factories.  ::)

I predict peace in Syria punctuated by occasional incursions from Israeli jets to keep the money flowing from our gooberment to our pet "democracy" (Israeli Oligarchy). Our favorite mediaeval Sheikdom of butchers and perverts (the Saudis) will join in on the fun with token incursions to keep our money flowing to them too. After all, they have been loyal servants of Big Oil for many years. We must do all we can to bolster their efforts to pump oil out of the ground with solar panel generated electricity. We wouldn't want them to lose money, now would we?  ;)     
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2016, 06:39:53 pm »
This is what I think about all the alleged "complexities" in human politics and ISMs of all stripes:

Aggressive, dominating humans are either greedy bastards or they are intelligent and far seeing enough to be socially responsible. All the political labels and nuances are either cheap rationalizations for tyranny or a pretense of the obvious required egalitarian harmony among all members of a species (AND the surrounding biosphere) necessary for the perpetuation of a species.

The rest is B U L L S H I T.
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2016, 05:13:44 pm »
In yet another surprise move, Putin announces the withdrawal of Russian forces from Syria.  The straightforward interpretation of this decision is, as he says, that the ceasefire is holding well enough for the political peace process to begin.  But Putin is anything but straightforward, and the ceasefire is shaky at best, and the peace conference is far from likely to achieve any outcome.

It puts pressure on Assad and the "moderate rebels" to be more accommodating at the talks, otherwise fighting is sure to resume.  Indirectly it puts pressure on the US too, but their influence over the moderate rebels is not as strong as they would like to make out.  And it does seem to take pressure off the US-supported "non-moderate rebels" or ISIS and Al Nusra and their backers, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps this is about dumping the whole mess back in Obama's lap, as any fighting now is going to be all down to the US and its "allies", who are in total disagreement over what to do next.

https://www.rt.com/news/335554-putin-orders-syria-withdrawal/
Putin orders start of Russian military withdrawal from Syria, says ‘objectives achieved’
14 Mar, 2016

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu to start the withdrawal of forces from Syria starting Tuesday. Russia will however keep a military presence at the port of Tartus and at the Khmeimim airbase to observe ceasefire agreements.

“I consider the objectives that have been set for the Defense Ministry to be generally accomplished. That is why I order to start withdrawal of the main part of our military group from the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic starting from tomorrow,” Putin said on Monday during a meeting with Shoigu and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

"In a short period of time Russia has created a small but very effective military group [in Syria]... the effective work of our military allowed the peace process to begin," Putin said, adding that with the assistance of the Russian Air Force "Syrian government troops and patriotic forces have changed the situation in the fight with international terrorism and have ceased the initiative."

To control the observation of ceasefire agreements in the region, Moscow will keep its Khmeimim airbase in Latakia province and a base at the port of Tartus, Putin said.

At Moscow's initiative, a phone conversation between Vladimir Putin and Syria's President Bashar Assad was held on Monday evening, the Kremlin reported.

The two leaders agreed that the actions of Russia's Air Force in Syria have allowed them to "profoundly reverse the situation" in connection to fighting terrorists in the region, having "disorganized militants' infrastructure and inflicted fundamental damage upon them."

Bashar Assad has recognized the “professionalism, courage and heroism” of Russian Army soldiers and officers, who have taken part in the military action, thanking Russia not only for extensive help in the fight against terrorism, but also for providing humanitarian aid and assistance to the Syrian civilian population.

The Syrian leader also stressed its readiness to engage in the political process in Syria as soon as possible, the Kremlin said.

Russia's president also addressed his foreign minister. He had tasked Lavrov with intensifying Russia's participation in the peace process to solve the Syrian crisis, the Kremlin reported.

Moscow launched its anti-terror campaign in Syria on September 30 last year. Russia’s participation in the operation, according to a previous statement by Putin, has its basis in international law and has been conducted “in accordance with an official request from the president of the Syrian Arab Republic [Bashar Assad].”

The Russian Air Force has been carrying out airstrikes against Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) and other terrorist targets in the region, eliminating military equipment, communication centers, vehicles, arms and fuel depots.


It's not a surprise to me. It's also not a surprise to me that Erdogan just had the war come home to Turkey. http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/ankara-bombing-one/2600226.html?cx_tag=trendingworld&cid=tg:recos:trendingworld:standard#cxrecs_s

Russia might or might not be behind this terrorist attack. I tend to think, like I told Surly a while ago when you and other people wrongly thought that WWIII was going to be triggered in Syria, that the generals in Turkey have simply sent the message to their jackals that it is time to "undermine" the confidence in Erdogan, for Turkey's own good and to return the country to sanity. Please note the date on the following post. I anticipated correctly what has transpired, whether you want to accept that, or not.   


Week Eighteen of the Russian Intervention in Syria: A Dramatic Escalation Appears Imminent

    Excellent article. The Saker knows his stuff.

My only observation is that Russia is in a better position than the "coalition" to maintain air superiority. Unless somebody in the US oligarchy wants a shooting war with Russia based on lots of dead coalition troops, they will muzzle Turkey. Erdogan is in a precarious position in his country and he knows it. Sure, it would be just like him to try to invade in order to prevent his ouster due to the continued exposure of his massive corruption. But if that is green lighted by our knuckle draggers in the MIC, Erdogan is the designated fall guy because his troops will have their asses handed to them. I'm sure he has a few generals under him that may decide discretion is the better part of valor and act to depose Erdogan on some exposed corruption. Erdogan has so many skeletons in his closet that he could corner the calcium market in turkey!

Here's what Saker is missing. The MAIN reason all this S H I T goes on down there is because of a resource of polluting energy called oil. Russia has lots of oil and gas and Saker sees them the way the Russian government sees them (allegedly valuable energy sources).

Saker, therefore, does NOT see the connection between cratering fossil fuel prices worldwide and the coming peace in that region. I do.

It ain't about religion, no matter what we have been told. It never was. It's about "national interests".  "National interests" in the coalition are ALL ABOUT VALUABLE energy or mineral sources, PERIOD.

When something (that the MIC has been coveting and fighting over since Standard Oil took over most of this country's foreign policy predatory piggery) is no longer very valuable, the wind goes out of the sails of the Wall Street Greed MACHINE behind EVERY military action since WWII. Yes the doffense contractors will lose some money, but they were never in the driver's seat of our foreign policy, despite their war profiteering MO in every war this country has been involved with. The fossil fuel industry has DOMINATED US foreign policy for well over a century. And the fossil fuel industry is STRONG in Russia. So, they are as much stuck in their "real world" as the coalition is.

The bottom line is that people fight over valuable stuff. There is no money in fighting over oil producing regions anymore. This is BASIC game theory. Our MIC bases ALL its plans and actions on game theory, unlike Russia. The MONEY is now, because of the high tech snooping of everybody and his mother now available, in nickel and diming we-the-sheeple 24/7. It's mostly invisible and it keeps the oligarchs in place. The MIC is happy as long s they can "justify" the giant logistics swag they now enjoy required to operate all their bases. The MIC will, of course, continue to occasionally terrorize and butcher a few humans here and there to make sure congress doesn't forget the, uh, "national security" justification for the humongous budget we-the-suckers must provide for these Welfare Queens with very big teeth. The MIC is just as happy not having to lose any people in wars if the swag keeps coming in. And the weapons makers too because the military practices a LOT blowing stuff up and shooting bullets. Their Wall Street backed "business model" works great as long as we-the=suckers in the USA swallow their "national security" propaganda. I'm sure Lockheed Martin is grateful to all of us for helping fund their solar panel infrastructure improvements that will provide Renewable energy based electrical power for their weapons making factories.  ::)

I predict peace in Syria punctuated by occasional incursions from Israeli jets to keep the money flowing from our gooberment to our pet "democracy" (Israeli Oligarchy). Our favorite mediaeval Sheikdom of butchers and perverts (the Saudis) will join in on the fun with token incursions to keep our money flowing to them too. After all, they have been loyal servants of Big Oil for many years. We must do all we can to bolster their efforts to pump oil out of the ground with solar panel generated electricity. We wouldn't want them to lose money, now would we?  ;)     


As they used to say in my Russian Language classes at West Point, Klass Konchen (класс распущен).
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2016, 09:55:04 pm »
Hope Returns

March 17, 2016
© UNHCR/A. McConnell

SNIPPET:


Scattered debris and concrete bones of buildings blanket the neighborhood of Baba Amr in Homs, Syria. These are cruel reminders of the conflict that drove some 80,000 Syrians from their homes over five years ago.  :(

Now that calm has settled in again, Syrians like Sabah are the first to return home to repair their roots and dust off the town they left behind to the fate of war.

Sabah remembers vividly the day her home was struck. “When the house was shelled, we felt a huge explosion. We ran out of the house. We looked up and saw that a floor had collapsed.”

It takes years to build a home, but only seconds to destroy it. Rebuilding will be difficult and costly, but Sabah is determined to restore what was lost.

Her home in Baba Amr was more than a place to live, it was a sanctuary of good memories before war and violence became part of her everyday life. “I didn’t want to leave it and lose all these memories,” she said.


Now Sabah has transformed her war-torn home into a place of refuge. She rents two out of three floors of her home to those displaced by conflict. 


http://www.unrefugees.org/2016/03/sabah-is-determined-to-rebuild-her-home/
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #82 on: March 20, 2016, 06:07:49 pm »
Quote
MKing: Don't say you weren't warned when you lift the lid on the crazy box.

I know.   ;)
I am completely open to being persuaded that the conspiracies are true, but it has to be based on evidence, not joining the dots.
I am completely up to speed on this, and have no doubt I will NOT be given evidence.
Abuse, certainly, especially from AG.

I could always spend my time on some other blog - moonofalabama has far fewer crazies on it.

I'm so sorry you feel so abused by the Law of Gravity and its "stubborn" applicability to the physics involved in the demolition of WTC 7. The last time I checked, New York City is on the surface of the Earth and WTC 7 was there too. The force of gravity there is 32 feet per second squared for ANY object, or part of one, in free fall. I was taught that "free fall" acceleration cannot be achieved when something is in the way of that free fall. When any part of a building being demolished is in the way because it ain't broke yet, you CANNOT achieve free fall.

And, in order to break all that stuff in the way OUT OF THE WAY in order to achieve FREE FALL, you need a very precise demolition sequence on EVERY support column, not just one or a few, that supports the building NEAR THE BASE OF THE BUILDING (where, in WTC 7' s case, there WERE NO FIRES). It takes at least two weeks ( rush job) to rig that demolition sequence. 

I guess you have other special knowledge about how to get around the laws of physics that you would like to enlighten us with.  ;)

As for MKing, it is expected that he would label "crazy" anyone that understands and can accurately measure what an acceleration of 32 feet per second squared is. That is what propagandists devoid of any ethical constraints whatsoever do to defend the propaganda lies they are paid to push.   

But if you pair of propagandists want to push this BULLSHIT effectively, I suggest you switch from fallacious debating techniques like appeals to authority or arrogant puffery to some really clever mendacity like, for example    ,  claiming the following video below has been "doctored" to make it look like the building fell at free fall speeds. You really ought to do that because, as long as you agree that the following video was not "doctored", you expose, for all to see, your serial mendacity. 

Who are ya gonna believe, Palloy and MKing, or yer own lyin' eyes?
 
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2016, 06:27:03 pm »
I think the simplest explanation is a little of both... they knew an attack was coming, didn't know when, didn't know where, had some idea it involved hijacking planes... so when the first plane crashed into a building, haha, that was some mighty bad piloting, continue reading to the kids... but when the second plane crashed, oh crap, this was a coordinated attack, run for your life!

So what brought down Building 7?
A small group of demolitions experts, of course... like I said, a little of both: vast government incompetence, small secret conspiracy.  There were plenty of investigations going on in Building 7 that powerful people were happy to have terminated.

No kidding.
Large numbers of case files for ongoing investigations by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) were reportedly destroyed in the collapse. The Los Angeles Times reported that "substantial files were destroyed" for 3000 to 4000 of the SEC's cases. The EEOC reported that documents for 45 active cases were destroyed. 3   Before the attack, SEC investigations of corporate fraud by companies such as Enron and Worldcom were the subject of many news reports -- reports that virtually vanished in the wake of the attack.

http://911review.com/attack/wtc/b7.html

Also...

Why destroy such a valuable piece of real estate?

We know that WTC7's developer and lease-holder, Silverstein Properties, and WTC7's mortgage-holders, the Blackstone Group, Banc of America Securities, and General Motors Acceptance Corporation, received a Court-awarded amount of $861 million dollars from Industrial Risk Insurers in February 2002. We know that about $386 million had been invested in WTC7 before its destruction. The Court-award meant that Silverstein Properties and the mortgage-holders would share in about $475 million of profit. [8]

Silverstein Properties is headed by Larry Silverstein, a large contributor to Democrat and Republican office-holders. Silverstein Properties became the primary owner of the WTC Twin Towers less than two months before 9/11/01 (Westfield Malls was Silverstein Properties' minority-partner). Buying from the New York Port Authority, Silverstein Properties invested only $15 million toward a total purchase-price of $3.2 billion for a 99-year lease on holdings worth an estimated $8 billion. The low-rise office buildings WTC 4, 5, and 6, and 400,000 square feet of retail space were included with the Twin Towers in this deal. Silverstein Properties immediately took out extensive insurance policies on its new holdings.

One clause in Silverstein Properties' insurance policies for the new WTC holdings soon proved instrumental. Quoting the British Financial Times of September 14, 2001, the American Reporter wrote that ‘ the lease has an all-important escape clause: If the buildings are struck by “an act of terrorism”, the new owners' obligations under the lease are void. As a result, the new owners are not required to make any payments under their lease, but they will be able to collect on the loss of the buildings that collapsed or were otherwise destroyed and damaged in the attacks. ’


Again, a remarkable coincidence.

And speaking of coincidences, on September 10, 2001, SecrDef Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference to disclose that over $2 trillion in Pentagon funds could not be accounted for. According to a report by the Inspector General, the Pentagon could not account for 25 percent of what it spent. Such a disclosure normally might have sparked a huge scandal. However, events of the following day assured  the story disappeared down the memory hole.
Plus accountants, bookkeepers and budget analysts looking into the missing funds were killed in the Pentagon attack.

Another coincidence.

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2016, 10:04:21 pm »
Quote
MKing : Don't say you weren't warned when you lift the lid on the crazy box.

I know.   ;)
I am completely open to being persuaded that the conspiracies are true, but it has to be based on evidence, not joining the dots.
I am completely up to speed on this, and have no doubt I will NOT be given evidence.
Abuse, certainly, especially from AG.

I could always spend my time on some other blog - moonofalabama has far fewer crazies on it.

I'm so sorry you feel so abused by the Law of Gravity and its "stubborn" applicability to the physics involved in the demolition of WTC 7. The last time I checked, New York City is on the surface of the Earth and WTC 7 was there too. The force of gravity there is 32 feet per second squared for ANY object, or part of one, in free fall. I was taught that "free fall" acceleration cannot be achieved when something is in the way of that free fall. When any part of a building being demolished is in the way because it ain't broke yet, you CANNOT achieve free fall.

And, in order to break all that stuff in the way OUT OF THE WAY in order to achieve FREE FALL, you need a very precise demolition sequence on EVERY support column, not just one or a few, that supports the building NEAR THE BASE OF THE BUILDING (where, in WTC 7' s case, there WERE NO FIRES). It takes at least two weeks ( rush job) to rig that demolition sequence. 

I guess you have other special knowledge about how to get around the laws of physics that you would like to enlighten us with.  ;)

As for MKing, it is expected that he would label "crazy" anyone that understands and can accurately measure what an acceleration of 32 feet per second squared is. That is what propagandists devoid of any ethical constraints whatsoever do to defend the propaganda lies they are paid to push.     


But if you pair of propagandists want to push this bullshit effectively, I suggest you switch from fallacious debating techniques like appeals to authority or arrogant puffery to some really clever mendacity like, for example     ,  claiming the following video below has been "doctored" to make it look like the building fell at free fall speeds. You really ought to do that because, as long as you agree that the following video was not "doctored", you expose, for all to see, your serial mendacity. 

Who are ya gonna believe, Palloy and MKing, or yer own lyin' eyes?

 

Funnily enough, I AGREE that the acceleration cased by the force of gravity is 32 feet/second/second.  What is expecting was some kind of accurate timing of the fall to show that it actually DID fall with that acceleration.  Probably the videos run at 25 frames per second (whatever it is, it will be known by the TV station), and then YouTube may modify that, quite possibly cutting that in half.  Nevertheless that's as accurate a clock as we are going to get.

Then we know the height of the building, and each floor (corrected for the angle of view).  So we should be able to measure off the distance travelled (downwards) and time (in frames) and show whether it does or doesn't obey s = (1/2)*g*t2I'm asking you to give me a link to where that has been done sufficiently well for me to check it.

Does it look to you like it falls at a constant speed?  It does to me.  But that's NOT what gravity does - it makes things fall faster and faster.

It may surprise you to know that I have been through this in detail before, and know more about it than a TV news reporter.

Quote
Quote
ACCELERATION at 32 feet per second squared was DOCUMENTED in WTC 7

That's something we can discuss.  Would you like to start, with the documentation?

I don't believe you, Palloy.
I believe you will read the following HARD EVIDENCE of 32 feet per second free fall acceleration and immediately question the link, instead of addressing the EVIDENCE. K-Dog has your number. So do I.

If we are wrong, prove it by admitting that the WTC 7 evidence of a preplanned demolition is irrefutable. I know MKing will never admit the truth. Perhaps you will. 


Quote
World Trade Center Building #7
A QUESTION OF PHYSICS

THE FACTS:

At 5:21 PM on September 11, 2001, World Trade Center Building 7 collapsed to the ground in approximately 6.5 seconds. This 47‐story building fell rapidly into a compact pile.

With several video cameras focused on Building 7, at the time of the onset of its collapse, the descent of the building is well documented.

This symmetrical and rapid descent of the entire upper portion of WTC 7 through the path of greatest resistance, poses a very significant physics question.


The entire upper portion of the building, for a period of 2.24 seconds, covering the vertical descent of 100 feet or 8 stories, accelerated in its descent at the rate known as “free fall”. The National Institute of Standards and Technology confirmed this in their final report on the collapse of WTC Building 7.



OUR UNDERSTANDING:

As we understand the laws of physics, this rate of free fall acceleration is only
possible in the absence of any significant resistance to the descent.

The rate of the building’s downward acceleration is, to us, proof of the simultaneous removal of the internal structures that would have offered resistance to the collapse of WTC Building 7.


http://www1.ae911truth.org/home/344-building-7-implosion-the-smoking-gun-of-911.html





That clearly says that 8 stories fell at free-fall speed, although the tiny jpg image:



shows that it was anything but that.  The chart has time in seconds across the bottom, and velocity (measured with upwards as positive and downwards as negative) on the left.

You can clearly see that only the section between 0.7 and 3.2 seconds has constant acceleration. It is much more difficult to make out (why such a tiny image?, and why jpg ? - the worst format to display charts) but I think you can see that in fact the fall is in a series of steps.  For short periods of time there is NO acceleration - this would be the time in which the steel is crumpling. 

Now when the acceleration stops and restarts, it is not the same as being under free-fall conditions (continuous acceleration).  The difference is small at first, but much more noticeable as the falling velocity picks up.

And what of the periods [0 - 0.7] and [3.2 - 6.5] seconds?  They didn't fit the free-fall pattern at all.

If you can find a better image of this chart, please show it, as it will prove my point better.

So "WTC-7 fell at free-fall speeds" is FALSE.

And I should add, to save time, that you don't need to reach the temperature of melting steel for steel to lose its strength - there numerous videos that prove this.

Next.


So, you wish to deny the NIST report with your own private hairsplitting interpretation of ONE GRAPH?

And Palloy, did you just say CONSTANT ACCELERATION? YES YOU DID!  ;D

THAT is what GRAVITY gives you at 32 feet per second squared, not CONSTANT SPEED. Your double talk about "continuous" not being "constant" is hair splitting of the most pathetic. CONSTANT ACCELERATION will give you a higher velocity at each point in a downward plot.

You KNOW that the PLOT for a 32 ft/second squared acceleration is EASILY predicted. WTC 7 FITS that plot almost EXACTLY.

If some debris prevented a perfect plot, that certainly does NOT give you the excuse to claim ONE deformed girder could justify the PLOTTED building collapse. But you gave it the old college try with your "continuous" versus "Constant" bit of baloney.   

NOBODY, not the NIST, nor anyone else, has come up with the fool assumption that the building DID NOT ACCELERATE throughout its descent EXCEPT YOU. It DID. The PLOT proves it.

The ONLY STRAW you have left to cling to is to assert that the ACCELERATION (which is NOT in question by the authorities) was LESS than 32 ft/second squared. YOU have not DARED give a lower value because you know you will be laughed off the stage.  ;D

If, however, you are privy to some OTHER VALUE FOR CONSTANT ACCELERATION that NIST is unaware of to enlighten us with, by all means do so.  ;)

You obviously do not want to face the truth
. So, please continue your laughably pathetic efforts at 9/11 "The Evil  Ayrabs did it" propaganda. The more you post, the clearer it becomes that YOU, like MKing, are totally bereft of objectivity.   

You have wasted enough of my time today. Nevertheless, I'm sure you will try to bob and weave your way around the next two videos. WHATEVAH, Mr. Failed Propagandist.

Dots? What "dots"?  Try Parade of  ELEPHANTS!  :o


9/11 Video Clips Dan Rather Would Rather Not Show You     
What a COINCIDENCE that the words "NEW PEARL HARBOR" (see: 1998 neocon document      )are mentioned as a QUOTE from a government official...

NOTE: Must be watched at U-Tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_0eC3uns3pA


Your Tax Dollars at Work on the Pentagon Lawn on 9/11 

Obviously they must have been looking, not for missile fragments  ;), but for the Al Queda passports (those dad gum passports have an amazing ability to survive explosions and steel melting fires      ).




Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #85 on: March 21, 2016, 04:59:00 pm »
Much talk about the free fall of building seven but there is something even more obvious than that.  The equipment shed on top of the elivator shafts which must have been in the center of the building falls into the roof  a fraction of a second before the roof in it's entirety starts to free fall.  This is clear  proof that demolition brought the building down.   That shed was on top of the strongest part of the building on an elivator shaft made of concrete which would have been the first structural component blown to insure the building fell in on itself.

 

And even Propagandist Palloy was forced to admit FREE FALL for a SIGNIFICANT part of the descent.

PALLOY SAID:
Quote
"You can clearly see that only the section between 0.7 and 3.2 seconds has constant acceleration."

The fact that initial split second acceleration is difficult to measure is ignored by Palloy to make the ridiculous and irresponsible claim that there "wasn't any acceleration" prior to the 0.7 mark. This is the cheapest rationalization I have seen him invent yet for some imagined gradual failure by a "critical" girder.

At any rate, AFTER the 3.2 second mark, any debris encountered is irrelevant to the FACT that free fall acceleration between the 0.7 and 3.2 second mark REQUIRED that ALL support structures be TOTALLY severed. That can ONLY occurred from a precisely timed demolition sequence.

But facts are inconvenient for Palloy. Notice how your in depth discussion of seismic signatures and sound was totally ignored by BOTH MKing and Palloy. YOU, as an engineer, KNOW what you are talking about. So, they avoid anything that that they cannot bob and weave around with double talk.

Palloy is a text book example of the old Tobacco industry meme that was handed off to the Fossil Fuel Industry to delay the truth. He tries to come off as that fine fellow interested in "objective" discussion when all he really is out there to do is throw DOUBT on absolutely everything said by opponents who defend the truth.

For him, for example, to say that he "surprisingly agrees" with my statement that free fall is 32 feet per second squared is one of his more insidiously clever statements. Any book on physics and gravity provides that figure. The ONLY reason he comes up with such TRIPE is to establish some arrogant puffery about how "much he knows" and how anything I say is "questionable" by his highness, Mr. "objectivity".

Finally, every time I expose his shenanigans, he plays the "verbally abused victim" card. 

Basically, while claiming his fishing expeditions and propaganda are an attempt to be "objective"  ,THIS is Palloy's mission here in regard to what happened on 9/11 and why it happened.  :evil4:


Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2016, 10:29:10 pm »
Quote
The equipment shed on top of the elivator shafts which must have been in the center of the building falls into the roof  a fraction of a second before the roof in it's entirety starts to free fall.  This is clear  proof that demolition brought the building down. 

You obviously have a different concept of "clear proof".  I call that "pure guesswork", of the kind needed to make a conspiracy theory stand up.

Now you are being ridiculous.  The center of the building, the strongest part of the building because it is located over the elevator shaft clearly begins to fall first.  That is clear proof the elevator shaft failed first.  In an authentic conflagration elevator shafts are the last to fail.  Frequently they are the only part of a building left standing.  The fact that more people do not notice this obvious fact demonstrates how easily definitive proof is ignored in order to satisfy confirmation bias.  The bias here being that the U.S. Government could never be so evil.  And your bias is not to challenge but to sow doubt. 


Quote
K-dog: In an authentic conflagration elevator shafts are the last to fail.  Frequently they are the only part of a building left standing.  The fact that more people do not notice this obvious fact demonstrates how easily definitive proof is ignored in order to satisfy confirmation bias.  The bias here being that the U.S. Government could never be so evil.  And your bias is not to challenge but to sow doubt.

That should be easily tested by you producing lots of photos of destroyed buildings with only the elevator shaft still standing.

WTF!!? "Last to fall" does not mean "still standing"! That is still another example your fried logic circuits.

And the following is pure speculation mixed with spurious accusations:

Palloy SAID
Quote
My contention is NOT that "USG could never be so evil", it is that 9/11 was far bigger than was necessary to justify going after Al Qaeda in Afghanistan (really a cover story for TAPI pipeline, etc).  It would also leave USG/Pentagon/CIA/FBI/Air Force looking like they were an incompetent and incapable of defending the homeland.  Nobody would hatch a stupid plot like that against themselves.  Evil doesn't come into it.

As for making doubly sure by demolishing the WTC towers with explosives, the mere transporting of the required amount of explosives through the streets of New York, which never sleeps, let alone setting them up without anyone noticing, is embarrassingly ridiculous and grasping at straws to make the conspiracy theory fit.  Now THAT is confirmation bias.

"Evil" is not now, or ever was, the issue here. K-dog was using a figure of speech. He has detailed the "how this works" in our gooberment for corporate profit on several occasions. He explained the "Last Man Standing" Neocon MO here recently. As usual, you play dumb.   

Over one trillion dollars spent to make a whole bunch of war profiteers fabulously rich ALONG WITH THE "new Pearl Harbor" excuses for "security measures" police state SWAG in the USA is the ISSUE! If you want to claim that all that money is "insufficient motive" for the fun and games on 9/11, YOU are the one that needs his head examined.

NONE of that was possible WITHOUT 9/11! 9/11 was SINE QUA NON for "justifying" all the police state and war profiteering fun and games we-the-sheeple would not have tolerated otherwise. So spare us the "9/11 evil is confirmation bias malarchy" BULLSHIT.

YOU are the only one grasping at any hair splitting straw you can to deny the facts here.   

ALL of the following buildings were destroyed using controlled demolition. NONE of them fell in a the PERFECT PLOT of free fall THROUGHOUT their descent that YOU demand as proof of controlled demolition. Therefore YOU have erected a nice big straw man to avoid the FACT that the signature of the descent plot of WTC 7 is of a controlled demolition. Pretend all you want. you do not have clue of what you are talking about.


Below you will find, though you (Palloy) will try very hard not to, examples of what K-Dog just tried to explain to you about elevator shafts.


Those BRIGHT FLASHES you see below JUST BEFORE WTC 7 is demolished are not, according to Palloy, part of a controlled DEMOLITION. They are, "confirmation bias" of the "crazies imagining things".  You see, when that "critical girder expanded" and gave way, it gave some "pretty colored lights", surely not explosions.


« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 11:55:07 pm by AGelbert »
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #87 on: March 22, 2016, 03:19:51 am »
Quote
Agelbert said,

  Over one trillion dollars spent to make a whole bunch of war profiteers fabulously rich ALONG WITH THE "new Pearl Harbor" excuses for "security measures" police state SWAG in the USA is the ISSUE! If you want to claim that all that money is "insufficient motive" for the fun and games on 9/11

NONE of that was possible WITHOUT 9/11! 9/11 was SINE QUA NON for "justifying all the police state and war profiteering fun and games we-the-sheeple would not have tolerated otherwise

GO say's AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, It's always about the Benjamins when dealing with these godless swill, ALWAYS!

Thank You Agelbert, your confirmation of my beliefs is most welcome.
      

And thank you, GO, for your comments.    I have been going through some hard times emotionally (totally unrelated to 9/11) and your comments have lifted my sagging spirits.  8)
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Michio Kaku - Top Secret Military War Plans
Eisenhouer wanted to nuke North Korea. Later on in 1969, Nixon wanted to nuke North Korea too.

Published on Dec 29, 2012

Professor Michio Kaku discusses the secret military projects that the United States had planned during the 1950's, such as President Eisenhower's OPLAN 852 to drop the atomic bomb on North Korea and President Nixon's Atomic Anex which had plans to use Thermonuclear weapons on the the China-Korean Border to end the Vietnam War.

Michio Kaku almost discusses the social perception of warfare and peace.
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: War Provocations and Peace Actions
« Reply #89 on: April 03, 2016, 07:59:39 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: Poster UB is attacking K-Dog. K-Dog, unlike UB, is objective both about Guy McPherson's valid science based approach to evidence of the causes of climate change catastrophe and the lack of objectivity (and moral bankruptcy) of Trump's pitch.

 
Kdog yesterday u didnt know what peer review was and now youre calling it a social force and facebook. Thats like Guy objecting to people suggesting the future is survivable in more than 15 yrs because "well its patriarchal", in a podcast.

Guy is the one acting like science should be a social force. The very scientists he tries to use distance themselves from him, and when giving interviews he has to admit his predictions were wrong.  U can not say "so what" because in some very general sense guy could be right. Placing himself as counterpart to the chief climate science denialist Lord Monkton does not help.

Tell us what u mean about trump being irrational and social force, because it seems you are only following the opposite extreme of another one again there.

I think this is pretty objective and science based, don't you?


And Trump is a cheap, vulgar fascist. He uses wedge issues as emotional hot button bullshit to avoid facts and objectivity in order to demagogue his way into power. It's an old formula. And Trump is far less polished than Hitler was in his pitch. If you support Trump because of your ideology, then you are being irrationally emotional and unscientific.   

To show how much Trump MUST rely on manipulated emotion and the irrational result that would give him the presidency, just read the following:

Quote
GOP pollster Frank Luntz thinks that terror attacks on the scale of Paris or Brussels could rescue the Donald Trump ticket from defeat in November.

http://tarpley.net/gop-operatives-eye-terrorism-as-possible-outside-event-to-save-republican-ticket/

It's the old 911 trick all over again. And that was learned from the Goebbels technique for getting people to fight a war against their OBJECTVE and SCIENTIFIC interests through MANIPULATION of IRRATIONAL EMOTIONS, by the way. IOW, frightening people with LIES and Synthetic Terror.   
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

 

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