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Author Topic: Money  (Read 2172 times)

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Re: Money
« Reply #180 on: June 17, 2017, 02:35:58 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: Here the biological logic of closing the high seas to fishing (Dr. Lubchenco calls it the Wet West - referring to the "Wild West" term because anything goes and there is ZERO respect for sustainability) is mentioned, although also pointed out by Dr. Lubchenco is the fact that major governmetns refuse to do so. 

As Economist P. Dasgupta laments, collective action to stop, or even ameliorate, this crisis consistently fails to be achieved, even though we are basically out of time for additional delays.

Biological Extinction | Discussion #6

Casina Pio IV

Published on Mar 2, 2017

How to Save the Natural World on Which We Depend

PAS-PASS Workshop
Casina Pio IV, 27 February-1 March 2017

On our 4.54 billion year old planet, life is perhaps as much as 3.7 billion years old, photosynthesis and multi-cellularity dozens of times independently around 3.0 billion years old, and the emergence of plants, animals, and fungi onto land, by at least the Ordovician period, perhaps 480 million years ago, forests appearing around 370 million years ago, and the origin of modern groups such as mammals, birds, reptiles, and land plants subsequently. The geological record shows that there have been five major extinction-events in the past, the first of them about 542 million years ago, and suggests that 99% of the species that ever lived (5 billion of them?) have become extinct. The last major extinction event occurred about 66 million years ago, at the end of the Cretaceous Period, and, in general, the number of species on earth and the complexity of their communities has increased steadily until near the present.

Agelbert additional NOTE:  The global warming crisis is itself a symptom of the world view that gave us people like Trump. Unless he starts a nuclear war, he won't kill most of us; but Catastrophic climate change certainly will.

The source of the current and worsening crisis is lack of ethics among government and business elites.

Even though we ARE bordering on collapse, it is due to a concentration of ill gotten profits in a tiny group of rapacious oligarchs, not because the money is not there.

The Wall Street Capitalist "logic" has been debunked over and over. Privatization ALWAYS increases costs to society, not the other way around, as Wall Streeters fervently, and erroneously, believe.

The reason for that has been clearly laid out by eminent economists who do all the math, not just the convenient parts that 'justify' perpetual growth, on the costs human business activity on the biosphere we all require to live.

The "logic" of the business community is that IF a COST is not placed on exploiting the resources of the biosphere in an unsustainable (i.e. POLLUTION PRODUCING) manner, a de facto INCENTIVE exists, according to economic theory, to engage in rapacious biosphere damaging business practices. This, OF COURSE, assumes, as Capitalism's flawed economics education also seems to assume, that ethics play NO ROLE WHATSOEVER in business strategy and decisions to engage in whatever.

This is not only patently false, it is eventually suicidal in a finite resource environment (i.e. our biosphere).
ETHICS has been eschewed by Capitalists to the detriment of, not just the rest of us, but the biosphere as well. This incredibly short sighted attempt to claim monetary PROFIT obtained regardless of Social Costs INCURRED, BUT NOT PAID, is the be-all-end all of economics is sophistry at its worst. It is willful and deliberate cherry picking of what costs apply and what costs are "external". IOW, it's IRRATIONAL thinking passed off as "fiduciary responsibility to corporate profits".

This eminent economist (P. Dasgupta) exposes the ethical bankruptcy of this "incentive to be unethical" (Economic Theory of Income Accounting instead of the more comprehensive, BUT NOT USED, Wealth Accounting) in the following video (go to T7:29):

P. Dasgupta is answering a question asked of him at the time point I just gave you. He discusses flow accounts versus stocks and the historical reasons for it. He discusses the problems with measuring GDP.

SEE BELOW the results of Capitalist "economics" cherry picked "cost efficient privatization" over nationalization:

« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 03:14:51 pm by AGelbert »
Leges         Sine    Moribus     Vanae   
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.


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Re: Money
« Reply #181 on: June 18, 2017, 01:35:04 pm »

What Happens When The Oil Economy Collapses?

June 17th, 2017 by Zachary Shahan


The question is simple and stark, but there will be a gradient of effects, and side-effects, and after-effects. As the oil economy collapses, the world will change. And it will change a great deal.

Let’s start with some of the basics.

Oil company values — which are currently topping the charts — will collapse. That means that certain investors (many investors) will “lose money,” or see their net worth drop. To put this into a little more perspective, we highlighted recently that Tesla [TSLA] has passed the US “Big 3” automakers in market cap, currently sitting at $60.15 billion (compared to GM at $51.73 billion and Ford at $44.76 billion). Meanwhile, Exxon’s market cap sits at $354.59 billion, Chevron’s market cap is $204.76 billion, and Saudi Aramco’s expected to be valued at $1–10 trillion.

Venezuela today; the USA tomorrow? ???

Some of our top commenters have made it clear — the oil bubble could collapse at any moment.

Full article with GREAT comments guaranteed to give fossil fuelers Excedrin Headache number 666. :


Agelbert Commentt reply to a fellow that said Big Oil was being forced to transition Renewable Energy: Big Oil has done the "invest in green tech" head fake before, even while they kept funding denier stink tanks and astro-turf pseudo-science propagandists yammering about the sun "getting weaker" and the "greening of the earth" from all that extra CO2 our loyal servants from the fossil fuel industry are providing at "no charge".

"Beyond Petroleum" for BP?  Transition by  Shell? Nope!

As you said, big Oil will transition eventually to Green Clean Tech, but ONLY when they have no other option under the law. Until then they will continue to drag their feet and defend polluting profit over people and planet with tooth and corruption claw.

This essay clearly lays out the fact that the Fossil Fuel Industry faces huge liability issues in the immediate future simply because there is ample evidence that they have deliberately sabotaged government efforts to transition to Renewable Energy for several decades. Their criminal behavior is not just Criminal Negligence", but actually mens rea criminal involving premeditated harm to the public welfare. That is why the fossil fuel giants like Exxon have always done everything they could to make the courts their handmaidens (SEE: the remedy for the Exxon Valdez damage reduced to ONE TENTH of the initial amount by the Supine Supreme Court).

Why is Big Oil and Gas so apparently  suicidal and stubborn, when they have the capital in their coffers to totally transition to Renewable Energy?


As Zach pointed out, Big Oil is part of the global economy. When Big Oil goes down ,and they will, the economy takes a massive hit. That "hit" will depend on how far along any particular segment of the global economy has gone towards a 100% transition to Renewable Energy. New Zealand is getting there. Denmark, Iceland, Scotland, Finland and Portugal, as well as Germany are doing great as well. But the USA, Russia and ALL the other petro-states except maybe Qatar (Qatar is moving in the right Renewable Energy direction - hence fossil fuel tool Trump's attempt to demonize them) will be the most negatively impacted by the collapse of the oil based global economy.

But there is another aspect of risk that human civilization is increasing by delaying the total transition, not just away from fossil fuels, but to an ACTIVE biosphere remediation program to return to 350 PPM of CO2.

This risk is about the coming gigantic ocean storm and wave activity. This is not hyperbole. Two peer reviewed scientific studies published over the last two years predict ocean wave activity beyond the ability of present ship design.

I wrote a rather long (practically a mini-e-book) a while ago in three parts. The bottom line on the risk to our civilization in general and global shipping in particular is laid out in the third part. 

People need to know what we are facing. People need to know the fossil fuel industry knows the score and does not care. They are the bad guy here.

Climate Change, Blue Water Cargo Shipping and Predicted Ocean Wave Activity: PART THREE

SNIPPET from the above article:

Global Civilization is threatened within 25 years or less by the scientifically predicted ocean surface wave activity in the Hansen et al June 2015 study * and the Dutton et al July 2015 study ** evidencing a 6 to 25 meter (19 to 82 feet!) sea level increase in the geological record when the CO2 parts per million (PPM) atmospheric concentration was between 300 and 400PPM. As of October of 2015, the CO2 concentration is at 400PPM. It is increasing at over 3PPM per year.

* Atmos. Chem. Phys. Discuss., 15, 20059–20179, 2015 doi:10.5194/acpd-15-20059-2015 © Author(s) 2015. CC Attribution 3.0 License.

Ice melt, sea level rise and superstorms: evidence from paleoclimate data, climate modeling, and modern observations that 2 C global warming is highly dangerous
J. Hansen1, M. Sato1, P. Hearty2, R. Ruedy3,4, M. Kelley3,4, V. Masson-Delmotte5, G. Russell4, G. Tselioudis4, J. Cao6, E. Rignot7,8, I. Velicogna8,7, E. Kandiano9, K. von Schuckmann10, P. Kharecha1,4, A. N. Legrande4, M. Bauer11, and K.-W. Lo3,4


** Science 10 July 2015: Vol. 349  no. 6244  DOI: .1126/science.aaa4019 

Sea-level rise due to polar ice-sheet mass loss during past warm periods
A. Dutton1,*,  A. E. Carlson2,  A. J. Long3,  G. A. Milne4,  P. U. Clark2,  R. DeConto5,  B. P. Horton6,7,  S. Rahmstorf8,  M. E. Raymo9
Leges         Sine    Moribus     Vanae   
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.


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