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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2015, 06:24:45 pm »
Quote
And for the record, I am agnostic about gold, as befits a peasant. I don't have any money, but some gold would be good to have. As would beans, rice, potatoes, and weapons. Plus a storage locker full of pint bottles of whiskey to use as trade goods when TSHTF, but we've all heard all this before...

 :laugh: :laugh:

Look to put some Silver on you list Surly.

Poor man's gold is currently 75 % off its recent high of 50, a bargain in my view. Gold's friendly less noble cousin metal is a great alternative which offers protection from Fiat going berserk and you get some real bang for a buck with the silver gold ratio currently around all time highs about 80 to 1.

I hear you.

I had thought about it when silver was going up a while back, then talked myself out of buying into the teeth of a spike.
If you have any disposable cash, it couldn't hurt to have some silver. AG has also written about its medicinal properties as well, so eddie's point about it being valuable as a commodity via severqal demand vectors is a good one. IMO.

I learned a fascinating tidbit about a metal that was once considered more precious than Silver, Gold, or even Platinum!

That metal is Aluminum.

The obelisk in DC has an Aluminum cap because there was no metal more precious in those days.

It was a high energy process, needed to produce pure aluminum, despite the fact that about 7% of the crust has it (unlike Silver, Gold and Platinum that are really rare in comparison), that made Aluminum super cheap in the 20th century.

Can that happen to the precious metals too? If MKing and his pals have their way, certainly.

It is a scientific fact that if you can get out of our planetary gravity well cheaply, you can get an unlimited supply of ANY metal from precious metals to rare earths (they ain't rare out there) and ANY hydrocarbon (see Titan) as well.

Outer space energy expenditure needed to move something from here to several million miles over there, once you are out of our gravity well, is akin to a slight push on a boat in New York harbor sending a giant ship to China (distance multiplied by several million times) with no added energy except the slight push to stop it when it gets there. Friction is, in comparison to travel here on Earth, not a factor.

Another upside from getting our Gold and Silver from outer space is that mining asteroids has zero environmental impact, low energy expenditure because your mining and processing factory is at zero or low G and, thanks to robotics and computers, can be operated remotely (low personnel costs). A corporation has already been established to do exactly that.

Of course nobody needs to run out and sell their precious metals now. But, if there is a future, you can be certain that said precious metals will eventually be plentiful = cheap.

Considering the health applications that precious metals have, I would welcome that. Considering the electronics applications that precious metals have, that means faster and cooler running computers. Considering the fact that Silver is better than Copper for the transmission of electricity, I don't need to say why I would welcome silver wiring.   


Aluminum: Common Metal, Uncommon Past


In the mid-1800s aluminum was more valuable than gold:o

Napoléon III's most important guests were given aluminum cutlery
, while those less worthy dined with mere silver; fashionable and wealthy women wore jewelry crafted of aluminum.

Today aluminum is a critical component of modern life, found in airplanes, automobiles, soft drink cans, construction materials, cooking equipment, guardrails, and countless other products. The difference between scarcity and abundance (and between obscurity and ubiquity) of this metal depended solely on scientists' ability to find the way to release it—the third most common element in the earth's crust by weight—from its ore.

The most familiar story of the first extraction of aluminum is that the youthful Ohioan Charles Martin Hall developed aluminum's electrolytic extraction process in his family's woodshed in 1886, patented the invention, helped found the company that would later become Alcoa, and died a rich man.

A more complicated version  ;)
reveals that Paul Héroult developed a similar process in France at the same time. In reality both Héroult and Hall were participants in a much larger program of aluminum research that started in the 1850s and lasted until 1903, when the last major patent dispute was settled.

By then Alcoa was the undisputed world leader in aluminum production, and Hall himself was a multimillionaire. But neither Hall nor Héroult operated in a vacuum—their nearly simultaneous discovery of a process for aluminum extraction built on several decades' worth of electrochemistry and, indeed, centuries' worth of knowledge on the nature of metals.

Early History

While aluminum metal is a recent discovery, its compounds were fairly common in various industries throughout history. Alum (aluminum potassium sulfate, KAl(SO4)2 ), was best known as a dye fixer (or mordant) first developed in Egypt over 5,000 years ago, and clays containing aluminum silicates appear to have been favored by contemporary Persian potters for their strength.

Anhydrous aluminum sulfate (Al2(SO4)3) was used by the ancient Greeks as an astringent to stanch wounds—a use that continues to this day in styptic pencils.


Electrolysis, a process central to the modern history of aluminum, has its roots in the early 19th century. In 1800 the Italian Alessandro Volta invented the "pile" battery, which provided the source of stored power that pioneering Englishmen William Nicholson and Anthony Carlisle used to break a compound (water) into its constitutive elements through a process known as electrolysis. Generally defined, the process involves applying live electrodes to a liquid containing the compound to be electrolyzed. The negative electrode in electrolysis, the cathode, naturally attracts positive ions, which take on electrons; the positive electrode, the anode, attracts negatively charged ions. When water is subjected to electrolysis, hydrogen gas is produced at the cathode and oxygen is released at the anode.

The remarkable Cornish chemist Humphry Davy also started experiments in electrolysis in 1800. He struggled to isolate metals by putting a current through solutions of their alkali salts, which did nothing more than free hydrogen. But he met with much better results when he started to electrolyze molten compounds, first isolating potassium from potash and sodium from table salt in 1807.

The following year Davy used electrolysis to produce elemental calcium, strontium, barium, and magnesium before capping off his remarkable string of success with the identification and naming of aluminum.


He did not actually isolate aluminum; rather, as Norman C. Craig, professor emeritus of chemistry at Oberlin College, explains, "Davy had learned enough about compounds of other metals to conclude from the composition of aluminum compounds that they contained a new metal, aluminum." He first called the metal alumium, although it has evolved to aluminium in most English-speaking countries, and to aluminum in the United States.

One of early chemistry's true geniuses, Davy was knighted and received a baronetcy in 1812 and became president of the Royal Society in 1820. (The society has awarded an annual "Davy Medal" in his honor since 1877.) Nevertheless, his repeated attempts to isolate aluminum metal met with no success before his death in 1829.

Read more here:

http://www.chemheritage.org/discover/media/magazine/articles/25-4-aluminum-common-metal-uncommon-past.aspx
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2015, 08:32:38 pm »
I find it curious that all present luminaries ignore the facts as Hudson and Black have clearly stated them.

1) Greece does not need a "bail out" because ALL of the debt was fabricated.

2) A default and a Drachma is the best course of action for Greek sovereignty.

3) ANY investor in any country, from the Eurozone to China or Russia, can then buy low risk bonds emitted by Greece in Drachmas BECAUSE Greece will have a LOW to NO debt at the time. NO BAILOUT IS REQUIRED.

4) There is ZERO reason for Greece to lower pensions or other austerity measures. The BASKET CASE is the Troika monetary system, NOT GREECE.

As Hudson and Black have pointed out, the bigoted and defamatory propaganda the media has pushed that the Greeks "brought this on themselves" is inaccurate, to put it mildly. I posted the video earlier. It looks like nobody watched it here.  :(

Quote
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -- Aldous Huxley

All debt is fabricated the same way. all fiat is fabricated we still use it and owe it if we sign for it.

I dont believe we ignored discussion of drachma. RE has said repeatedly he thinks it would be instantly worthless due to hyperinflation,  u can make your case why hes wrong to him. I hope this result translates to using their own currency and localised self sufficiency instead of more can kicking.

Take the story of the villagers with their gardens and goats. Abd their 40 euro taxi rides ti go get their pension 18km awsyawsaway. Nice new german mercedes taxis... they used to ride scooters and


NO UB, ALL debt is NOT fabricated the same way. RE has said a lot of the right things but he STILL claims that TSHTF if the people vote no. I disagree. But the IMPORTANT THING is that Hudson and Black ALSO disagree. The TROIKA is the BASKET CASE, not the Greeks!

Michael Hudson is a Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. He is the author of The Bubble and Beyond and Finance Capitalism and its Discontents. His most recent book is titled Killing the Host: How Financial Parasites and Debt Bondage Destroy the Global Economy.

William K. Black, author of The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One, teaches economics and law at the University of Missouri Kansas City (UMKC). He was the Executive Director of the Institute for Fraud Prevention from 2005-2007. He has taught previously at the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin and at Santa Clara University, where he was also the distinguished scholar in residence for insurance law and a visiting scholar at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics
.

Black was litigation director of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, deputy director of the FSLIC, SVP and general counsel of the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco, and senior deputy chief counsel, Office of Thrift Supervision. He was deputy director of the National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement.

Black developed the concept of “control fraud” frauds in which the CEO or head of state uses the entity as a “weapon.” Control frauds cause greater financial losses than all other forms of property crime combined. He recently helped the World Bank develop anti-corruption initiatives and served as an expert for OFHEO in its enforcement action against Fannie Mae’s former senior management.


Transcript
US Hedge Funds Get Bailed Out If Greeks Pass Bailout Referendum (1/2)

Part 1


JESSICA DESVARIEUX, PRODUCER, TRNN: Welcome to The Real News Network. I’m Jessica Desvarieux in Baltimore.

If you’re in Greece this week, good luck trying to go to the bank. Greek banks are closed all week after news broke that the country will be holding a referendum vote on whether to accept the bailout measures offered by international creditors. But if the Greek population decides to vote yes for the bailout deal, does this mean that they will be handing creditor banks a bailout?

Now joining us to give us their take on the issue are our two guests. Joining us from Quito, Ecuador, is Bill Black. Bill is an associate professor of economics and law at the University of Missouri Kansas City. He’s a white collar criminologist and a former financial regulator, and author of the book The Best Way To Rob A Bank is to Own One. And also joining us from Germany is Michael Hudson. Michael is distinguished research professor of economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. His latest book is Killing the Host: How Financial Parasites and Debt Bondage Destroyed the Global Economy.

Thank you both for joining us.

MICHAEL HUDSON, PROF. OF ECONOMICS, UMKC: Good to be here.

WILLIAM K. BLACK, PROF. OF ECONOMICS, UMKC: Thank you.

DESVARIEUX: So Bill, I’m going to start off with you. Can you just explain to our viewers who’s actually getting bailed out in this deal. Are creditor banks the ones benefiting at the end of the day?

BLACK: Well, the same people are getting bailed out that have been getting bailed out from the beginning of the Greek crisis, and that is foreign banks. So this money just moves in sort of an elaborate circle from the Troika, which is the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the IMF, through the Greek government, through the Greek banks, and then they pay the foreign creditors. And they pay them just enough that they don’t have to recognize a loss for accounting purposes.

As Michael will explain, of late the big investors tend to be American hedge funds, as opposed to what used to be primarily French banks.

DESVARIEUX: Okay. Michael, I want to ask you about the role of French banks in all of this. Can you just speak to this, give us a sense of how they even got entangled in Greek debt.

HUDSON: Well, today’s problem with the debts really stem back from 2010 and 2011 when Greece obviously couldn’t pay. When Greece joined the Eurozone, it falsified its debt figures. The head of its central bank worked with Goldman Sachs to make it complicated derivatives to hide it all, and that was Lucas Papademos.

Well, in 2010 right after the PASOK party came to power in Greece, they revealed the fact that their figures had been fudged all along, and that the debt was so large that Greece couldn’t pay. So the International Monetary Fund, which hadn’t been making loan–almost had no customers in the world, had its European staff calculate. And the staff unanimously said, Greece can’t pay these debts. These are fraudulent debts that are all, that are way beyond the ability to pay. They’ve got to be written down. And the board of directors agreed.

But Dominique Strauss-Kahn, who was the head of the IMF when he wasn’t going to the sex parties, wanted to run for president of France. And he talked to Sarkozy, and Sarkozy said, wait a minute, French banks are the largest holders of Greek debt. If Greece doesn’t pay and writes them down, the French banks will go under. And German banks are the second. But then at the G8 meetings in 2011, President Obama went over along with Tim Geithner and said, our big campaign contributors are on Wall Street, and they’ve made huge bets that Greece can pay. If Greece doesn’t pay, then all these gamblers and derivative players are going to lose their bets. You’ve got to sacrifice Greece and you’ve got to drive it into poverty, and lend the Greek government the money to pay the bond holders so that our Wall Street banks won’t lose money.

So the European Central Bank told the IMF if you want to be a player, you’ve got to ignore what the stats said, and they did. And the European Central Bank and the IMF paid over 100 billion Euros to the bond holders. So Greece, instead of owing private bond holders, owed the IMF and the European Central Bank.
 Now the European Central Bank wants to get paid, but the debts can’t be paid. So the central bank says, okay Greece. Sell us your islands. Sell us your ports. Sell us your lands. Sell us your raw materials. This is foreclosure time. And if you can’t pay, we want everything in the public domain. And you also have to impose austerity. You have–only 20 percent of your population has emigrated. You only have a 60 percent unemployment rate for youth. You’ve got to increase the unemployment rate to 80 percent, double the emigration, in order for us to make the loans to your government that will turn right around and pay us. [Crosstalk].

DESVARIEUX: But Michael, there really could be real consequences. You mentioned obviously financial markets. There’s some real consequences for them. But what about everyday people? I’m thinking of those folks who might have their money in banks, in the banking system. And if this bank is insolvent, what would happen to them?

HUDSON: There need not have been any consequences for the people at all of Greece not paying the IMF and not paying the European Central Bank, because this money was all paper money created to begin with. It’s just a book loss.

 But the Europeans said something else, that although we don’t need the money, we will bankrupt you and we will cause a bank crisis if you don’t comply with what we want. So it’s either austerity or we will smash and grab, take your pick.

DESVARIEUX: Bill, I’m going to ask you the same question. What do you do if you’re a person who’s going to be facing that referendum vote? Do you vote no for this bill, or do you say yes and hope for the best?

BLACK: Well, I would definitely vote against the bankers. What is–the other thing is, Michael is correct, but on top of that the Troika said it’s not enough that 60 percent of your pensioners are in poverty. We want to push it so 70 or 80 percent of your pensioners are below the poverty level as well. And privatization, this is what made, depending on the poll, Carlos Slim the richest or the second-richest person in the world. They’re sold on sweetheart terms to cronies, and this is crony capitalism, basically. People are familiar with Indonesia under Suharto. It’s very similar.

What do you do is, as Michael said, the normal thing that has been done in the past is to write down the debts when they can’t be paid. That is done all the time routinely in the commercial world, and it was done with Latin America back in the debt crisis in the ’70s and ’80s, with what became known as the Brady Plan. So you can’t keep a country, or at least there’s no economically rational basis for doing so, and of course it’s completely inhumane, to keep a country in a condition where it constantly will be in ever greater debt. And that’s precisely what the Troika wants to do.

And as Michael has said, German politicians have openly demanded that Greece begin selling islands. In other words, selling the nation. Just a complete destruction of sovereignty.

DESVARIEUX: All right. Bill Black and Michael Hudson, we’re going to pause the conversation here. In part two we’ll talk more about specifics related to alternatives to this deal. So thank you both for joining us.

BLACK: Thank you.

HUDSON: Good to be here.

DESVARIEUX: And thank you for joining us on The Real News Network.

Part 2

JESSICA DESVARIEUX, PRODUCER, TRNN: Welcome back to The Real News. I’m Jessica Desvarieux in Baltimore.

I’m joined now by Bill Black, as well as Michael Hudson. Bill Black is in Quito, Ecuador, and Michael.

DESVARIEUX: All right. Let’s pick up where we left off. We were talking about alternatives to the deal that’s being presented to the Greek people in this referendum vote. Michael, lay out some specifics. What are some alternatives that would be in the interest of everyday Greek people?

HUDSON: Well, what Bill was describing in the first half is really finance as war. What they want is the same thing that warfare wants. They want the land, and they want a tribute in the form of interest. Basically, the Eurozone went to Greece and said, look, we’re going to–just in case Spain’s Podemos party or other countries want to not pay their debts, we’re going to use you as an example and we’re going to wreck you.

And it’s begun to backfire this week, because what they show is that remaining in the Eurozone itself is pretty hopeless, financially. And the leaders of the Syriza party have said, look, we’re not only fighting for Greece, we’re fighting for all of Europe. And what we want to do is save Europe from austerity. And we want to save Europe by having a real central bank whose role is to create money, to spend money into the economy. We want a central bank that doesn’t give money to banks. We want a central bank that pays for government spending and rebuilding the Greek economy. And we need to be out of the Eurozone in order to do that.

DESVARIEUX: Wouldn’t they also have to reform their tax system, or enforcement, at least, of that tax system?

HUDSON: Yes. I mean, they’re talking about what–a lot of debts are going to be canceled. Not only to the European banks, but we’re talking about a domestic debt holiday very much like Germany’s economic miracle, in 1948 the Allied monetary reform, where they canceled all the internal German debts except for the debts that employers used for wages. We’re talking about a huge debt write off. But you don’t want to make real estate owners suddenly owning their property free and clear. So we need a tax system that not only is going to stop the tax evasion by the oligarchs who have used the banks to avoid it.

We’re going to take away the tax deductibility of interest payments, so that they can’t pretend to expense all their profits and interest, and we’re also going to have a rent tax. For what we’ve privatized already, we’re going to tax the economic rent to recover for the country what these owners didn’t create, like the phone systems that Carlos Slim made in Mexico that Bill mentioned before. We’re going to collect the economic rent fully in a tax system. So financial reform is going to go hand-in-hand with tax reform, and that’s what terrifies the Europeans. Because they say, wait a minute, all of the money that you call profits is actually rent extraction. It’s all exploitation. You can’t stop exploitation, that’s what our financial system is all about.

DESVARIEUX: But Bill, I could imagine people who are in the elite are going to say, hold on a minute. You want to raise taxes, you want to create new taxes. I’m going to leave. I’m going to another country and setting up shop. What do you make of that argument?

BLACK: Well first, all their money already left. They’ve been evading taxes for years, so them leaving will have next to no effect.

But yes, I mean, forget them. What the Troika has done throughout huge expanses of Europe, roughly nations with half the population of Europe, their leading export these days is their college graduates. As soon as you get your degree, you leave. And that isn’t just the southern periphery, the so-called Mediterranean. That’s also the Baltic states as well.

There’s an incredibly insipid article in the New York Times at the time that we are taping this interview about Bulgaria that says, Bulgarians have no sympathy for the Greeks. Well, and then it turns out this is a hard-right government that has welcomed austerity and produced the usual problems. And of course, their government would fail within 24 hours, as would the Spanish government, if they ever admitted that Austerity was economically illiterate. The equivalent of bleeding a patient to make them better.

So all of these nations and the Troika is locked into this position that they can never admit the truth.

DESVARIEUX: All right. Michael, I know you’re going to be headed to Brussels, you’re giving a speech to the Euro parliament on Thursday on the Greek situation and the IMF. Can you just quickly lay out for us, what are you going to be advocating for?

HUDSON: Well first of all, for treating the debt claims of the IMF and the European Central Bank as odious debts. This means they shouldn’t have been put in place to begin with, and the debts, the money that was lent to Greece, except it went right through Greece to pay the French banks and the German banks, and to enable the American Wall Street banks to make a killing.
 The Wall Street banks made whole reputations of buying bonds at 30 cents on the dollar and suddenly they went up to 100 cents on the dollar. The market basically said Greece couldn’t pay in 2010. The market priced its bonds very low. Right now Greek bonds are yielding 33 percent. So the market says Greece can’t pay.

And so when Europe is saying, we want to impose a market economy, everything the European Central Bank and IMF is doing is against the market. They’re not recognizing what any real market analyst realizes, that the debts can’t be paid. We want to create a real market economy by getting rid of the [rentiers?] [incompr.], by getting rid of the exploitation, by writing off the bad debts, by reforming the tax system.

And in–a few years ago Christine Lagarde provided a list to Greece of Greek tax evaders that had 50 billion Euros in Switzerland. This 50 billion Euros is enough to pay–was enough to pay all of Greece’s debts. And the technocratic leader that the financial interests installed, Lucas Papademos, the very man who falsified all of the Greek payments and debt statements in 2001, didn’t do anything at all with the list. He refused to move against the oligarchs.

So what you have is, is really a combination of treason and criminal behavior. Now that there is a crisis in Greece this enables Syriza to get the support of the people to throw the bad guys in jail. I’d like to say to throw the lawbreakers in jail, but they don’t have any laws against that kind of crime taking place. So they have to draw up a whole new set of laws to make Greece a fair economy instead of the unfair economy that the IMF and the European Central Banks have turned it into.

DESVARIEUX: And it’s now being reported by the Associated Press that Greece’s credit rating has been pretty much cut in half, and it’s now a junk, junk credit rating.

I just want to thank you both, gentlemen, for joining us, and we’re going to continue to cover this story here on The Real News. You guys always have such interesting perspectives to bring to this program. Thank you both for being with us.

BLACK: Thank you.

DESVARIEUX: And thank you for joining us on The Real News Network.

http://michael-hudson.com/2015/06/greece-on-behalf-of-europe/
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2015, 11:55:21 pm »

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2015, 06:03:55 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: Come one, come all worshippers of Predatory Capitalism! Listen to the amazing glorification of situational ethics as a justification for avoiding any responsibility by the TROIKA goons for creating this situation in the first place. Notice the claim that the Greeks "cheated" the 'honorable and ethical' rules of the Troika. That is world class Orwellian discourse! Observe how this totally false premise is THEN used to justify (with historical references and rallying cry quotes, no less )  DOING what the TROIKA has ALWAYS DONE (asset stripping under the guise of prudent, measured, and so on, "economics".).

The bottom line is that David Marsh    is just one more Empathy Deficit Disordered Nurse Ratched doing his evil part to justify the lack of conscience, integrity, honesty, responsibility, along with the mens rea asset stripping grand larceny practiced by those he represents. 

This article is a repetition of many, many clever propaganda pieces in the sad historical record of our "civilization" used to convince people that ethical behavior is not applicable to an apex predator. Unfortunately, most Homo SAPS have been swayed by this biosphere math challenged, short sighted and suicidal argument. So it goes.  :(


Opinion: After Greece’s ‘no’ vote, let the punishment begin   


By David Marsh

Published: July 6, 2015 8:06 a.m. ET

Greece faces infighting and pain, and Europe must confront contagion

The warring over Greece’s future has been a debtor versus creditor battle. So far, the Greeks seem to be winning.

In achieving a decisive “no” vote in Sunday’s referendum, Alexis Tsipras, the Greek prime minister, has implemented the credo attributed to his forebear Philip of Macedon, father of Alexander the Great: divide et impera. (Divide and rule.)

The failure of the creditor countries, led by Germany and the Netherlands, to recognize a central maxim of guerrilla fighting — the enemy will always surprise — provides a key reason for the oxi (no) win. If you’re outnumbered, practice the unorthodox. Tearing up the rules of Brussels conduct, Tspiras and Yanis Varoufakis, his finance minister-cum-field-marshal, have outmaneuvered and divided the surplus states by constantly re-engaging, over five months, from unexpected, demanding and outrageous battle positions.

 The fruits of victory will turn sour. Creditors and debtors alike will be punished. Greece faces a wrenching period of infighting and pain, during which devaluation-stamped bank notes, rationing of high-street goods and exchange controls enforced by armed police will be only the least of the ills.

The euro states must confront contagion and schism in their ranks, both political and economic.

The Syriza partisans arrived in power in January on the horns of an impossible trilemma. They wanted simultaneously to end austerity, gain debt relief and remain in the euro. The chances are that Greece will say goodbye to the single currency. They lack the means to stay. If they are forced out, the Athenians will go neither quietly nor with good grace. They will threaten to bring the edifice crashing down around them.

Also read: Greece’s ‘no’ vote is really no vote at all

For the moment, the “no” vote gives the Greek government authority and momentum to fight the next stage. Adding to Tsipras’ temporary sense of triumph, the creditor states themselves administered the coup de grace.

All along, the Greeks have mercilessly exposed fault lines in the creditor ranks. The International Monetary Fund official who haplessly briefed journalists on July 2 that Greece (as the Athens government and many other observers had been saying all along) needed massive debt relief — and, by the way, would the Europeans kindly foot the bill? — handed Tsipras and Varoufakis a propaganda coup. The IMF guillotined itself. Christine Lagarde, its hyperactive managing director, should have stayed in Washington masterminding operations rather than uselessly and visibly trail-blazing around Europe.

Another Syriza helper turned out to be Wolfgang Schäuble, the German finance minister, who, I have always suspected, is far too intelligent and worldly wise to be taken in by his own rhetoric. He conceded on the eve of the referendum that, whatever happened, the rest of Europe would have to continue Greek financing, thus removing the fear of creditor cruelty that would have been the main motivation for a “yes.”

Schäuble’s admission was a mark of humanity and honesty. Clausewitzian it was not.

No doubt Tsipras and Varoufakis will spring more surprises. Euro negotiators will have cause to remember what Mario Draghi, European Central Bank president, said in Helsinki on Nov. 27: “[Euro] members have to be better off inside than they would be outside. … If there are parts of the euro area that are worse off inside the union, doubts may grow about whether they might ultimately have to leave. And if one country can potentially leave the monetary union, then this creates a replicable precedent for all countries.”

If Greece leaves, some of the euro magic that Draghi has sustained with so much creativity will wear off. It is difficult to imagine that Europe will display the thoroughgoing solidarity — open-ended ECB bond purchases, across-the-board bank guarantees and so on — needed to nullify fears of contagion.

The Duke of Wellington reflected 200 years ago that nothing except a battle lost can be half as melancholy as a battle won. A parable for the euro, a line from T.S. Eliot’s “Murder in the Cathedral,” comes to mind: “For every evil, every sacrilege, crime, wrong, oppression and the axe’s edge, indifference, exploitation — you, and you, and you, must all be punished.” As the smoke rises from the field of battle, the euro area will not be a peaceful place.

David Marsh is managing director of the Official Monetary and Financial Institutions Forum (OMFIF), an independent research and advisory group and a platform for confidential exchanges of views between official institutions and the private sector.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/after-greeces-no-vote-let-the-punishment-begin-2015-07-06

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2015, 07:11:54 pm »
Hat tip to Surly for this great find!

Here is another view from Thomas Piketty that seems obvious, but I have heard no one mention it:

Germany hasn't paid ANYBODY.

German copyright law is arcane with limited provisions for public reuse, so this is a Google , DIE ZEIT. The original German interview with Thomas Piketty can be found here.

"Germany has never paid"
The star economist Thomas Piketty calls for a large debt conference. Especially Germany must help the Greeks refuse INTERVIEW: Georg Blume

TIME (DIE ZEIT)
June 27, 2015 20:09 c



Since his book Success "Capital in the 21st Century" is one of Frenchman Thomas Piketty of the most influential economists in the world. His theories on the distribution of income and wealth triggered last year of a global debate. In time conversation he now mixes also decided in the European debt debate.

DIE ZEIT: Can we Germans are pleased that even the French Government currently pays tribute to the dogmas of the Berlin austerity?

Thomas Piketty: Not at all. That's a reason to celebrate neither France nor Germany, and certainly not for Europe. Rather, I am afraid that the Conservatives, in particular in Germany, are on the verge, Europe and the European idea to destroy - and because of their appalling lack of historical memory.

DIE ZEIT:: We Germans have yet worked up the story.

Piketty: But not when it comes to German debt! The memory of it just for today's Germany would have to be of importance. Look at the history of public debt to: Great Britain, Germany and France have all been in the situation of Greece today, even suffered even higher debts. The first lesson that can therefore be drawn from the history of sovereign debt, is that we do not face new problems. There was always plenty of opportunities to pay off the debt. And never want only one, as Berlin and Paris looking to make the Greeks.

DIE ZEIT:: But they should repay the debt after all?

Piketty: My book tells of the history of income and assets, including the public. What struck me in writing: Germany really is the prime example of a country that has never repaid its government debt in history. Neither after the First nor the Second World War. There was another pay about after the Franco-German War of 1870, when it called for a high payment of France and they got it. For the French state was suffering then for decades under the debt. In fact, the history of public debt irony. They rarely follow our ideas of order and justice.

DIE ZEIT:: But it can not but draw the conclusion that we can do no better today?

Piketty: When I hear the Germans now say that they maintain a very moral dealing with debt and firmly believe that debts must be repaid, then I think: That's a big joke! Germany is the country that has never paid his debts. It can be obtained in other countries no lessons.

DIE ZEIT:: Do you want to try the story in order to portray States who do not repay their debts as a winner?

Piketty: Just such a state is Germany. But slowly: The story teaches us two options for a highly indebted country to settle its arrears. One has fooled the British Empire in the 19th century after the Napoleonic Wars expensive: It's slow method, which today also recommends Greece. The UK division at that DIE ZEIT: the debt through rigorous financial management from - although it worked, but took extremely long. Over 100 years the British relatives two to three percent of its economic output on the debt, spending more than they for schools and education. That must not be and should not be today. For the second method is much faster. Germany has it tried in the 20th century. Essentially, it consists of three components: inflation, a special tax on private assets and liabilities sections.

DIE ZEIT:: And now you want to tell us that our economic miracle was based on debt cuts that we deny the Greeks today?

Piketty: Exactly. The German government was in debt after the war ended in 1945 with more than 200 percent of its gross national product. Ten years later it had little choice but the national debt was less than 20 percent of the national product. France succeeded in that DIE ZEIT: a similar feat. This tremendously rapid debt reduction but we would never have reached with the budgetary resources that we recommend Greece today. Instead, our two countries turned to the second method, the three mentioned components, including debt restructuring. Think. To the London Debt Conference in 1953, canceled on the 60 percent of Germany's foreign debt and also the domestic debt of the young Federal Republic were restructured

DIE ZEIT:: This was from the realization that the high repayment demands on Germany after the First World War were among the reasons the Second World War. They wanted this DIE ZEIT: forgive the Germans for their sins!

Piketty: Nonsense! This had nothing to do with moral insights, but was a rational economic decision. It was recognized at the DIE ZEIT: correctly: According to major crises which have a high debt burden result, there comes a DIE ZEIT: when you have to turn to the future. We can not expect to pay for decades for their parents' mistakes of new generations. Now the Greeks have undoubtedly made great mistakes. By 2009, the government in Athens have forged their budgets. Why not the younger generation of Greeks now bears more responsibility for the mistakes of their parents as the young generation of Germans in the 1950s and 1960s. We must now look forward. Europe was founded on forgetting the debt and investing in the future. And it is not on the idea of eternal penance. We need to remember.

DIE ZEIT:: The end of World War II was a break with civilization. Europe was like a battlefield. That's different today.

Piketty: reject the historical comparison with the post-war period would be wrong. Take the financial crisis of 2008/2009: That was not any crisis! It was the biggest financial crisis since 1929. So we have to do these historical comparisons. This also applies to the Greek national product: Between 2009 and 2015 it fell by 25 percent. This is comparable to the recessions in Germany and France 1929-1935.

DIE ZEIT:: Many German believe that the Greeks have their faults not seen until now and want to just go ahead with its high government spending.

Piketty: If we had told you Germans in the 1950s, that you present your errors have not sufficiently acknowledged, you were still trying to repay your debts. Fortunately, we were smart.

DIE ZEIT:: German Finance other hand, seems to believe that a Greek exit from the euro zone could Europe weld together even faster.

Piketty: If we start to launch a country, the serious crisis of confidence in the euro zone is now, only larger. Financial markets would turn to the next country immediately. That would be the beginning of a long agony, in the course of which we risk Europe's social model, its democracy, to sacrifice even his civilization on the altar of a conservative, irrational debt policy.

DIE ZEIT:: Do you think that we are not Germans generous enough?

Piketty: What are you talking about? Generous? Germany earned so far to Greece by comparatively high interest grants loans to the country.

DIE ZEIT:: What is your proposed solution to the crisis?

Piketty: We need a conference on the total debt as Europe after the Second World War. A debt restructuring is unavoidable not only in Greece but in many European countries. We just lost the completely opaque negotiations with Athens six months. The idea of the Euro Group that Greece in the future generated a budget surplus of four percent, in the next 30 to 40 years to repay its debt is still not off the table. It is said that in 2015 will one percent surplus generated in 2016 then two per cent, in 2017 three and a half percent. Totally crazy! It will never run so. We move the necessary debt debate on the cows come home day.

DIE ZEIT:: And what would after the great haircut?

Piketty: It would require a new democratic European institution, which decides on the permitted level of debt in order to avoid a resurgence of debt. This could for example be a European Parliament chamber, which results from the national parliaments. Financial decisions can not escape the parliaments. To undermine democracy in Europe, as Germany does today, by insisting on the durchgepowerten especially from Berlin Regelautomatismen in debt of states, is a big mistake.

DIE ZEIT:: Your President Francois Hollande has just failed only with his criticism of the fiscal pact.

Piketty: That does not help matters. If in recent years, the decisions in Europe would have fallen in a democratic way, there would be today Europe a less strict austerity.

DIE ZEIT:: As it is doing in France with no party. National sovereignty is considered sacred.

Piketty: In Germany more people do, in fact thoughts that go in the direction of a democratic new foundation of Europe, as in France, with its numerous Sovereignty believers. In addition, our president still makes a prisoner of the failed EU Constitution referendum in France in 2005. François Hollande does not understand that a lot has changed by the financial crisis. National self-interest, we need to overcome.

DIE ZEIT:: What national egoism shows in Germany is at work?

Piketty: I think Germany today is very marked by the reunification. They had a long DIE ZEIT: afraid of being left behind by economic them. But then the union succeeded very well, thanks to a functioning social model intact and industrial structures. Meanwhile, however, the country is so proud of this achievement that it granted all the other countries lessons. This is a bit infantile. Of course I understand the importance of the successful reunification was about the personal history of Chancellor Angela Merkel. But now Germany has to rethink. Otherwise, his attitude towards the debt about a great danger for Europe.

DIE ZEIT:: What do you advise the Chancellor?

Piketty: Those who want to expel Greece from the Euro-Zone today will end up in the dustbin of history. If the Chancellor wants to secure its place in history, like succeeded Kohl with the unification, it must be now successfully used for an agreement in the Greece issue - including a debt conference, which we then start over at zero. But then with a new, much stricter budgetary discipline than before.

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2015, 08:30:33 pm »
Thanks, AG. I get an increasingly bewildering number of things that hit my inbox every day.
Some of them bear fruit.
Right now this is the only place i know of you can read it in English.
Doubtless not for long, though.

Surly,
You are quite welcome. It would be interesting to see how the NAZI sympathizers at places like Rense.com, who are continually trying to blame the Allies for creating the conditions that created Hitler ("onerous" reparations after WWI), would react to the hard truths your posted article points out.  They wouldn't like it.  ;D  The continual efforts to make a saint out of Hitler and the German people of that time disgusts me. They are no better than the racist  defenders of the stars and bars. In the USA, it is no coincidence that the same people are often both Holocaust deniers and confederate Flag defenders.

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2015, 06:01:30 pm »
Quote
Quote from: agelbert on August 08, 2015, 01:24:02 PM

    DEFLATION is a misnomer in a fiat currency environment. What part of that do you not understand?

 Catching up on my reading this morning AG, and just had to compliment you on your excellent financial postings of late.

 The capital gains insight was top notch material as well that did not go unnoticed.

 While I realize your favored focus is on other matters, your insights on financial matters, appearing more often, would be most appreciated as well. 

GO,
Thank you.

As to the comments from Palloy on PV and RE on the "population" problem or the "low energy " of Renewable energy systems allegedly making it "IMPOSSIBLE" to transition to 100% Renewable Energy without killing the economy, their arguments are more ideological than logical. It's a waste of time to argue with them.  8)

For your info, the EROI fixation Palloy and others have in regard to doing the math on Energy is flawed. LCOE is what I referred to that really describes energy efficiencies from cradle to grave.

Since you are up on financial and accounting terms, here's a very brief summary of what is involved in formulating LCOE from an excellent article.


SNIPPET 1:


Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) Defined


LCOE is used to compare the relative cost of energy produced by different energy-generating sources, regardless of the project’s scale or operating time frame. As Thomas Holt and his co-authors define it in A Manual for the Economic Evaluation of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Technologies (see Resources), LCOE is determined by dividing the project’s total cost of operation by the energy generated. The total cost of operation should include all costs that the project incurs—including construction and operation— and may incorporate any salvage or residual value at the end of the project’s lifetime. Incentives for project construction and energy generation can also be incorporated.

LCOE = Total Life Cycle Cost / Total Lifetime Energy Production 
    (1)

As presented in Equation 1, LCOE is a metric that describes the cost of every unit of energy generated by a project in $/kWh (or ¢/kWh or $/MWh).

As will be shown directly, this basic definition of the LCOE can be expressed mathematically in more complex ways to account for all of the variables that impact the life cycle cost and total energy production for a PV system.


SNIPPET 2:

LCOE Uses

LCOE is most commonly used for evaluating the cost of energy delivered by projects utilizing different generating technologies. Specifically, it is used to rank options and determine the most cost-effective energy source. LCOE may also be used to compare the cost of energy from new sources to the cost of energy from existing sources. In this context, it is useful to policy makers deciding how future energy needs will be met and which technologies to support, and to utilities and project developers selecting technologies. It should be noted that energy-efficiency projects may also be evaluated using the metric.

Because it captures total operating costs, LCOE enables comparisons between significantly different technologies, but it may also be used to compare the cost of energy from variations of the same technology.



SNIPPET 3:

Key Financial Concepts

While it is beyond the scope of this article to thoroughly explain the financial theory behind the LCOE equation, there are two key concepts that you need to understand.

Cash flow. For the purposes of the LCOE calculation, the cash flow is a table showing the amount of money either spent or received each year over the life of the project. The values included in the cash flow vary depending on how the project is financed and whether you are considering tax credits or incentives.

In a simple example, the Year 0 value for a PV project cash flow would include the capital cost of installing the system and any up-front investment or capacity-based incentives. All tax credits, tax savings and performance-based incentives would begin to be recognized in Year 1. For most subsequent years, the only costs in the cash flow would be relatively small O&M expenditures. The likely exception to this would be the year when the inverter needs to be repaired or replaced. In some scenarios, the value of the equipment or material is included in the cash flow at the end of the project lifetime.

If the value of money was static over time, then the total life cycle cost of the project would be determined by simply summing each value in the cash flow. However, a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow, which leads us to the concept of present value.

Present value. In the context of this discussion, we want to determine how much each annual value in our project cash flow is worth in today’s dollars. To figure this out, we need to multiply each value by some factor less than 1. This factor is called the discount factor and can be represented by the following equation:

Discount Factor = 1 / (1+d)


where d is the rate of return that could be expected from equivalent investment alternatives. The discount factor can be difficult to define and varies from project to project and over time.

A present value calculation allows you to account for the timing of expenditures or revenue and puts a higher value on costs and income that occur near the beginning of a project.
This is important when comparing technologies because they often have different long-term cost profiles. Renewable technologies often require a large up-front investment and incur little cost over the project lifetime, whereas traditional sources of energy often have a lower up-front cost but require continuing significant investment in fuel costs.


http://solarprofessional.com/articles/finance-economics/levelized-cost-of-energy?v=disable_pagination



I have been unable to get these CFS OBVIOUS advantages of Renewable Energy past the ideological lense that Palloy AND RE refuse to stop seeing through. So, I don't bother to try any more.

ALL the arguments presented in this forum against the feasibility of a rapid 100% (or more) transition to Renewable Energy do not hold water. Even the IMF, no friend of Renewable Energy, AGREES with me.  :icon_mrgreen:

The IMF just destroyed the main argument against clean energy May 25, 2015

http://www.energypost.eu/imf-just-destroyed-main-argument-clean-energy/


But they aren't the only ones.


Quote
his new book “Clean Disruption of Energy and Transportation”, famous author, lecturer and Silicon Valley entrepreneur Tony Seba predicts that by 2030 all power generation will be solar and wind and all cars will be self-driving electric vehicles. The existing energy industry will be “obliterated”.  ;D In a review of the book, José Cordeiro, founding energy advisor at Singularity University and Visiting Research Fellow at the Institute of Developing Economies ( IDE-JETRO) in Japan, concedes that this sounds unlikely, but calculates that it is very well possible.

http://www.energypost.eu/clean-disruption-silicon-valley-will-make-oil-nuclear-gas-coal-obsolete-book-review/


But don't try to convince RE or Monsta or Nicole or Ilargi or Palloy et al. They are not listening. Soon they will be forced to face reality. But until then, they will continue to claim I am the one not facing it.  ;D

At any rate, if you want to have some fun with Nicole Foss or Ilargi, ask them what the present value of a deflating currency is...  ;D

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php?topic=559.msg82616#msg82616
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2015, 08:37:08 pm »
Let me take this opportunity to congratulate you both. You're very dedicated, each of you, and worthy of a great deal of praise. I mean that sincerely. Please don't think that, because I'm a curmudgeon, that I don't appreciate all you do for this site and for the concerned people in the world.



Thank you. It's the passion thing.  8)  I am frequently so fed up and frustrated about the way things are that I try to quit. Surly usually gives me a lesson in reality and kicks my ass around so I get back in the saddle, but I must admit it gets really old seeing so much POLLUTING POISON coming down on us and so few people willing to realize that we are NOT going to change anything for the better if we get all maudlin about defending/justifying all the wrong moves made by Homo Saps to get to where we are.

If I could synthesize the main argument I have with the Predators 'R' US  crowd, it's that the homeostatic range of ALL life forms, even if many have radically different ranges than ours, DICTATES that there IS such a thing as TOO MUCH of a substance that we need to LIVE. This is LIFE REALITY. But the Wall Streeters do not understand that concept. MKing does not understand that concept either. Most Libertarians do not understand that concept either.

TOO MUCH PECUNIARY PROFIT is deadly for human society. Never mind that it leads to tyranny and oligarchy. That's the LEAST of our concerns. 

The problem is that it is incredibly difficult to maintain our level of civilization and not degrade the biosphere. When addressed as a social challenge, one that everyone must pay for equally, it makes it into that 'homeostatic' area as a metaphor to life processes. In that case, everybody tries to keep their polluting down to a dull (i.e. sustainable) roar, so to speak.

But when a few ass holes running a multibillion dollar fossil fuel industry get MORE MONEY if they POLLUTE MORE through wars, extraction, processing and sale of fossil fuels, they leave behind the 'homeostatic' zone and charge into the extinction trajectory. They become a metaphor for a cancerous tumor. The more billionaires out there DOING what they DO, the more tumors.

It's easy to convince people that having too little money is bad. It's damned near impossible to convince them that having too much money is bad. But it is. That is the lesson and the warning that homeostasis SCREAMS at us from nature.

Most people don't get it. For example, they look at a graph with the X axis equal to time and the Y axis equal to income. They do not understand that, in living beings, that graph has a HOMEOSTATIC ZONE. If you depart from that zone below OR ABOVE, you will harm yourself and those around you (humans AND the rest of the biosphere).

INCOME, when you do the biosphere math, is a certain RANGE of nutrients along with shelter, security, etc. (see Maslow).

Everybody looks at that graph and says there is no such thing as too much "money". Well, your body NEVER gets ANY money; It gets NUTRIENTS. What happens when you eat 72 ounce steaks, drink 10 milk shakes and other sugar "goodies" every day? Well, THAT is what is happening to our society!

Yeah, I know. Good luck trying to convince anybody of that.  :(
 
Nevertheless, at least for now, I will continue, as Knarf, RE and Surly (and others from time to time) do to, not just document our misery, but propose ways to avoid extinction.  ;)


http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php?topic=559.new#new
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2015, 06:38:39 pm »
What to Expect From the Fed's Jackson Hole Meeting

Mohamed A. El-Erian Aug 24, 2015 2:00 AM EDT

SNIPPET 1:


Quote

Although the official focus this year will be "Inflation Dynamics and Monetary Policy,"   the event organized by the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City also should be an opportunity to discuss the challenges facing the global economy, including the slowdown in the emerging world and the threat it presents to social well-being and financial stability.   ;D


Agelbert NOTE: We KNOW who's social well-being and financial stability the Fed lackeys for Oligarchy are concerned with, don't we?       

IOW, if your net worth is not well over a one million dollars, your "social well-being and financial stability" does not merit disussion among attending luminaries of world finance. 


 
SNIPPET 2:


Quote
As things stand, the next scheduled assembly of global economic officials won’t take place until the annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in the first half of October in Peru.

By then, one of two outcomes will have been established:
Either loosely coordinated national policy responses will have succeeded in restoring calm to markets and in buying more time for the global economy to get back on a growth path, or more intense market volatility will have fueled greater concern about adverse consequences around the world, accentuating the dangers of a vicious cycle of economic contraction and financial instability. 

Investors  may hope for the first outcome. But, absent any changes in policy actions and prospects, they would be well advised to plan for the second

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-24/el-erian-fed-jackson-hole-china-markets
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2015, 10:16:20 pm »
The Crash of 2016 may have started.  :o

https://youtu.be/039Zh9KBCqY

Published on Dec 5, 2013

Looking at American history, Hartmann, host of The Big Picture, sees that roughly every four generations, catastrophe strikes. To avert the next economic and social disaster, he urges us to reject the destabilizing profit motives of corporations, and embrace the ideals of democratic civil values that once defined the nation.

Founded by Carla Cohen and Barbara Meade in 1984, Politics & Prose Bookstore is Washington, D.C.'s premier independent bookstore and cultural hub, a gathering place for people interested in reading and discussing books. Politics & Prose offers superior service, unusual book choices, and a haven for book lovers in the store and online. Visit them on the web at http://www.politics-prose.com/

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2015, 07:22:28 pm »
Quote
Sure. Also applies if you go back since BEFORE we went off gold.

No it doesn't MKing, you are unaware of monetary history.

Why would they go off it and disparage it if it wasn't in their way?

Your idea that the dim always use that the inflation is all relative and can be kept up with is fallacious and fools talk as well.

Your one of  those people that applies your experience and ability to cope to everyone else.

Go to a seniors center in your area and instead of ****ing about your gout and bragging about your wonderful genes talk to some folks petrified of how to get through the month on and 800 dollar Social Security check and their 10,000 in savings with no interest on it. Good folks that worked all their life and trusted their government and it's currency.

You are clueless about the misery inflation inflicts upon millions of our citizens; that goes for you to Eddie with your callous insensitive remark about the price of hamburg. Be thankful you can dick some poor bastard out of a couple of hundred bucks because of a toothache; you may not always be that fortunate. Inflation is government stealing from the poor and the elderly as well as the trusting citizens of our country. Praise the heavens you have the ability to manage it.





We’re proud to collaborate with The Nation in sharing insightful journalism related to income inequality in America. The following is an excerpt from Nation contributor Greg Kaufmann’s “This Week in Poverty” column.

     http://billmoyers.com/2013/06/22/the-older-americans-act-and-u-s-seniors/ 
     

 

Apparently MKing, who accurately states that causality is important to scientists  ;), neglects to recognize the effects of inflation, DELIBERATELY ENGINEERED EFFECTS for BANKER SWAG, that CAUSE people on fixed incomes, like the older segment of the population, to lose buying power to the point of having to make choices between food and medications.

And that is just one of "coping strategies" that we-the-people at the wrong end of the economic inflation mechanism have to deal with.  :( 

Inflation is analogous to a less sophisticated form of HFT (high frequency trading). Like the HFT, market gaming, parasitical mechanism designed to continuously take (steal) a tiny percentage off the top, the ONLY reason fiat currencies are created is for the express purpose of extracting a "first in line" percentage of buying power off the top BEFORE the masses have, NOT DRIVEN PRICES UP, but been FORCED to pay higher prices because the value of an item reflects the increased fiat money supply.

MKing sees everything in terms of supply and demand. That's incorrect in regard to fiat currencies. There is no "increase" in demand to raise the price of goods and services. There is simply a leveling effect from the increased money supply. It's an insidious effect, tantamount to wealth transfer (theft) form the masses to the elite pigs.

So, the banker elites make a PROFIT off the inflation engineered LOSS/MISERY of the rest of the populace.

This BLATENT cause and effect relationship of inflation seems to go right over MKing's "causality is important to us scientists" head.

I really wonder what part of INFLATION IS A WEALTH TRANSFER MECHANISM FROM THE MASSES TO THE BANKER ELITE  that MKing does not understand.        

Anyone that claims this is about supply and demand, see below:

« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 06:02:29 pm by AGelbert »
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2015, 05:59:44 pm »
Apparently MKing, who accurately states that causality is important to scientists  ;), neglects to recognize the effects of inflation, DELIBERATELY ENGINEERED EFFECTS for BANKER SWAG, that CAUSE people on fixed incomes, like the older segment of the population, to lose buying power to the point of having to make choices between food and medications.

There is a difference between inflation, and poverty. If the fixed income was high enough, there would be no problem. Therefore, what you are describing isn't a inflation problem. It is an income problem. To solve it is easy, double social security payments. Nothing to do with banksters.b  ;D

Quote from: agelbert
And that is just one of "coping strategies" that we-the-people at the wrong end of the economic inflation mechanism have to deal with.  :( 

You talk as though you have never seen the consequences of poverty before?  In the world I grew up in there was no income, let alone someone guaranteeing a fixed one. God that would have been great. As it was, medicine was home recipes and food was something you better go shoot or grow, if you wanted to eat. This fixed income gig sounds pretty good, I think everyone should get one!

Quote from: agelbert
So, the banker elites make a PROFIT off the inflation engineered LOSS/MISERY of the rest of the populace.

This BLATENT cause and effect relationship of inflation seems to go right over MKing's "causality is important to us scientists" head.

Because you saying it doesn't make it so. Causality does matter. There are all SORTS of reasons that inflation happens, and all SORTS of effects. And sure, banksters have been trying to engineer a cut since banks and sters were invented. But inflation isn't the only thing they want a cut of, they want a cut of everything. You should see their percentage for setting up M&A financing. And there is no loss/misery except….in YOUR example…WHEN POVERTY GETS INVOLVED. And when I say POVERTY, I only mean "not enough money for folks to buy whatever they want or need" and this…THIS covers a lot more than what the government might consider POVERTY.

All it takes is a new drug and $100G month to get it and presto…Anthony is enraged that inflation did it!

Please.


MKing, you are using your scattergun approach again. Of course there is a world of a difference between abject poverty and coping strategy choices from geezers on pensions like yours truly. That goes without saying.

Social Security being doubled would just barely bring up the buying power of a pensioner on Social Security to the level they had 40 years ago. My point is that inflation EMBEZZLED/STOLE that buying power from them.

Of course there are a lot of scams going on out there to fleece we-the-people beyond inflation by the elite, be they bankers, stock brokers, fossil fuel industry price shock fun and games, Health Insurance Horsesh it and medical professional price gouging, etc.

But inflation is the big enchilada. It takes a bite out of EVERYTHING. It's the CAUSALITY of causalities, as far as buying power erosion.

I hear ya on poverty. I never directly experienced it but I saw pictures of how people lived in Puerto Rico in the 1930's in the countryside.

In the cities, it was nice houses, cars, running water and electricity. In the countryside, none of the above. The wooden (not concrete like they have now) houses had thatched roofs (i.e STRAW). The people mostly walked barefoot. Only city folk had shoes. Bilharzia disease was rampant. TB too.

Only socialist government policies changed all that. The elite, of which many fu cks in my family belong to, just did not give a sh it. The elite never give a sh it, no matter where they live and what their color is. But that is another sore subject.  ;)

A cousin of mine is an Industrial Engineer (Georgia Tech graduate). He worked for a pharmaceutical corporation. He told me all about how much it costs to do what in those factories. MKing, regardless of the fact that the money spent on research is often lost (and needs to be recovered through successful drug sales) because many research projects are a dead end, the pharmaceutical corporations are involved in world class price gouging, FAR and above covering the research costs base. 

There is NO EXCUSE for the ROUTINE 2,000 to up to 40,000% mark up on cost on pharmaceutical drugs, PERIOD! 


« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 07:34:44 pm by AGelbert »
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2015, 06:08:49 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: Eddie is a Dentist from Texas.

that goes for you too Eddie with your callous insensitive remark about the price of hamburg. Be thankful you can dick some poor bastard out of a couple of hundred bucks because of a toothache; you may not always be that fortunate. Inflation is government stealing from the poor and the elderly as well as the trusting citizens of our country. Praise the heavens you have the ability to manage it.

As usual, you miss my point. I mentioned food because we all know food costs are rising quickly . I wasn't being callous, I was trying to understand what's happening with the money.

Considering inflation vs. deflation in assets, ask yourself what happens when food costs eat up a bigger and bigger piece of John Q. Public's income?

 Answer: He spends less and less on anything else, including asset purchases of any kind. So when it comes to assets, higher food prices would seem to me be to actually be deflationary, and not inflationary.

This is not something that is generally understood, but it makes sense to me when I look at what's going on.
Rising prices are only half the equation for inflation. Without more money in the form of wages to spend into the economy, food prices can go to the moon, and we'll still be in a depression.

This is the same fallacious and absurd point that another brought up in the first Foss interview of late. The idea that rising prices and taxes are deflationary, not inflationary.

I would like to know of one instance when the price of something rising does not as an absolute fact mean less money is available for something else. It is self evident, but to call rising prices deflationary is the mark of someone so inept and incapable of sound thinking and comprehension that they cannot be reasoned with.

You and another here live in a world where rising prices are deflationary and therefore by the same twisted, contorted, imbecilic logic, falling prices are inflationary since they give us more money to spend on other items. It's really amazing that you would voice such buffoonery in public and be serious on top of it.

Your thinking is backwards Eddie much as the backward reverse thinking Diner mentor you no doubt pick up this insanity from. As soon, and not until, you find the time to think clearly and learn the difference between inflation and deflation; Alasdair would be an excellent teacher, if you can find the time to listen, I will be happy to continue the conversation with you in financial matters.                                                                                                               Regards, GO

 

   
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 07:27:33 pm by AGelbert »
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2015, 07:08:36 pm »

(From the inflation article you referenced.)


This seems to me to be the salient sentence in the Mises Institute article:


When the Federal Reserve Banks bought the government's 2½% bonds, say, at par, they held down the basic long-term interest rate to 2 percent. And they paid for these bonds, in effect, by printing more money. This is what is known as "monetizing" the public debt. Inflation goes on as long as this goes on.

If almost all the money the Fed created went into the the current equity market bubble, which is badly leaking now and apt to burst, taking the major stock indexes back to some point as far below the mean as they are above it now, then all the phony money the Fed created goes up in smoke. That, my expert friend, is most assuredly NOT inflation.

I think right there is where the traditional understanding of inflation fails to explain our current circumstances.


I am listening to Alisdair now. I hear him talking about the Fed having to helicopter money, which is something I mentioned earlier in this thread last week, and which you stated unequivocally would not occur.

Your suggestion that my fallacious thinking is the result of someone or another's mentoring here or elsewhere is wrong. Fallacious or not, it's based on my own critical thinking skills, and it's an attempt to put the big picture together by engaging in an open discussion of what we see happening in the real world.

I notice that any time I might say something that questions your world view, you react in a personal way, impugning my mental faculties, which I don't appreciate. You're much better at that than you are at making real arguments, which is what I'd much rather engage in, in a thread like this one.

I don't argue that the ultimate end game of currency debasement is a recipe for a fast economic collapse and a hyperinflation. But as Alisdair himself says in this interview you posted, we are not nearly there yet. Selfishly, what I want to understand is a roadmap for how to negotiate the near term future.

The currency wars are rewarding savers of USD cash money at the moment, in a very big way, for those with the means to exploit the arbitrage opportunities to exchange some of their fiat for real goods and for gold, too.

We are also experiencing real and easily measurable deflation at the moment, by nearly any reasonable metric. Commodities say we have had steady deflation for five years. The velocity of money is dropping faster than it did between 1929 and 1932. Welcome to Reality Check 101.

Eddie,
So how come the average Joe used to be able to take a two week to one month vacation each year and own a car and house too, but NOW they can't while YOU still can?     

Maybe you want to attribute it to your education and business smarts. I am not trying to impugn your intelligence or ability, but I am, right there with GO, claiming you are engaging in self serving rationalizing.  ;)

When I was a kid, doctors and dentists MOSTLY lived a middle class existence. Something has gone very wrong since then. That "something" involves, to a high degree, inflation caused buying power erosion of people on wages or pensions. 

But there is more to that society destroying inequality calculation. That is the FACT that professionals who own their businesses are exceeding in their buying power, not just published inflation, but actual inflation. They became much wealthier, as a group, than professionals with the SAME level of education and intelligence as peers on wages in a hospital or prison or military service setting.

Health care has become more of a business than a vocation. That is wrong, Eddie. There is no socially valid reason for a doctor or a dentist be remunerated any better than they were when most of them were middle class in the 1950's.
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2015, 07:58:50 pm »
The Deliberate Erosion of Fixed Income Purchasing Power Engineered by Fed goosed INFLATION in the USA is NON-Democratic THEFT for the Elite.

Agelbert NOTE: The Federal Reserve is NOT a democratic organization. The very clever rationale for

Fed "Independence" (from we-the-people, but NOT from elite bias) was based on the alleged "Inflation Bias" of an elected Congress on monetary policy. 



An "Independent" (as in YOUR VOTES DO NOT APPLY) Fed would allegedly avoid panic and control Inflation better... 


Question 41 of a quiz on what the Fed does, why it can do it, what it isn't authorized to do but does anyway, and what the Congress can do about it (but since 1913, never does;) ).

Quote

The case for Federal Reserve independence does not include the idea that

A) political pressure would impart an inflationary bias to monetary policy.
 
B) the principal-agent problem is perhaps worse for the Fed than for congressmen since the former does not answer to the voters on election day.

C) a politically insulated Fed would be more concerned with long-run objectives and  thus be a defender of a sound dollar and a stable price level.
 
D) a Federal Reserve under the control of Congress or the president might make the so-called political business cycle more pronounced.

The correct answer is B).  :(

See below for OBJECTVE criticism of Fed independence (the correct answer is in bold):

Quote
45) Critics of the current system of Fed independence contend that

A) the current system is undemocratic.

 
B) voters have too much say about monetary policy.

C) the president has too much control over monetary policy on a day-to-day basis.

D) all of the above are true.


46) Critics of Fed independence argue

A) that it is undemocratic to have monetary policy controlled by an elite group responsible to no one.

 B) that an independent Fed conducts monetary policy with a consistent inflationary bias.
 
C) that the Fed, since it does not face a binding budget constraint, spends too much of its earnings.

 D) only A and B of the above.   


47) Critics of Fed independence argue

 A) that it is undemocratic to have monetary policy controlled by an elite group responsible to no one.

 B) that independence seemingly does little to guarantee good monetary policy.

 C) that its independence may encourage the Fed to pursue a course of narrow self-interest rather than the public interest.

D) all of the above.   
   

Banking: The fed and monetary policy
Study by dwkremer   

https://quizlet.com/75164696/banking-the-fed-and-monetary-policy-flash-cards/

The surreptitious theft/erosion of purchasing power from the wages of Americans is the MAIN cause of the inequality increase in the USA. The Fed did ALL of that. MKing might whine that we-the-people "voted" the Fed into existence in 1913  ::), but that would be a lie as well. Even a cursory examination of how that Christmas eve "vote" for the Fed came about would reveal that democracy and voting did not apply.

The Fed (see Alan Greenspan), in it's "Principal Agent" role (for you know who  ), also was instrumental in getting the BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) to modify the cost of living calculation formula in order to low ball "unnecessary items" like housing costs, food and energy  ::). I admit some voting was involved in that shaft job. But really, the COLA gaming was just the icing on the elite 'wealth transfer from the masses to the rich' welfare queen cake! 

WHY? Because, while Inflation SUBTRACTS from the average Joe or Jane's purchasing power, the Fed is GOOSING the purchasing power of the elite by setting margin rates UNDEMOCRATICALLY.

Those margin rates that allow for generous borrowing for speculation by the brokerage firms and big banks do NOTHING for the main street American economy.

But for Wall Street, it gooses speculation in stock market securities, while it wrecks normal price discovery mechanisms. That is, they iNFLATE the paper wealth of a tiny elite sliver of the US.

Then they claim "inflation is under control" because the COLA fun and games make SURE the masses have their purchasing power eroded at the same time.   

Do you understand what loose margin requirements really means? Loose margin requirements is like giving ALL potential borrowers an A+ top tier credit rating. Do you think everybody on wall street merits that? Of course not! But they get it. At the same time, we-the-people get less purchasing power.

The Fed works for the Elite. Voting isn't going to change that any time soon.  :( 

Surly, I agree that union contracts, environmental laws and many other socially positive bits of legislation are the result of elected officials with a conscience. Yes, we need to vote, OKAY?

But the Fed has been an elite tool since it was founded in 1913. After we got off the gold standard, they got worse! And the royalist conspiracy that Thom Hartmann mentions often has taken apart much of the social progress made in this country.

When some duplicitous double talker like MKing brings voting into a discussion of Inflation cause and effect, he does so with exactly the same "we are all to blame" dissembling agenda BALONEY the mainstream media tried to sell us in 2008. I'm surprised you didn't see through that.  :(

Not only are we NOT all to blame, but 90% of us (at least!) are NOT to blame!

We-the-people DID vote Nixon in to become President. He pushed some great environmental legislation.   

But THIS action by him was totally undemocratic. THAT action should have required a referendum, but it did not. I suspect the Fed dictated that action to President Nixon.
Quote
The Nixon Shock was a series of economic measures undertaken by United States President Richard Nixon in 1971, the most significant of which was the unilateral cancellation of the direct convertibility of the United States dollar to gold.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

Surly, Today I have once again confirmed what I told you some time ago in a pm about talking to walls at the Doomstead Diner. The flexibility I observe here is like that of one year old cured concrete.     

« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 09:20:19 pm by AGelbert »
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

 

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