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Author Topic: Money  (Read 23064 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2015, 04:23:40 pm »
Too much Wampum leads to unhappy campers

Quote
Wampum, ke`kwuk, squau-tho-won; all are Algonquian words for shell beads or string of shell beads. Wampumpeage is a Narragansett word for "white beads strung". Throughout northeastern America, wampum was used for jewelry, gifts, communication, historical record of important events, religious ceremonies, and trade. It was the earliest form of currency known in North America. Its value was derived from the difficulty involved in producing the cylindrical bead from both Quahog and Whelk, and the scarcity of suitable shells. White beads were made from Whelk, purple-blackish from Quahog.

The beads were produced from the inner spiral of the shells. The spiral or column must be thick enough to withstand grinding, shaping and drilling. The shells were collected along the coastal shores during the summer, and worked in the winter months. The inner spirals were cut into cylinders measuring 1/4 inch long by 1/8 inch diameter. Each bead was then smoothed through grinding, polished, drilled, and finally strung on hemp fibers or sinew. It was difficult, tedious, and time consuming work. The proportionate scarcity of the Quahog dark beads doubled their value to that of white wampum.

http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo08017.html

She sells seashells by the seashore. If she sells seashells by the seashore, how many seashore shells does she sell? This old tongue twisting pronunciation trainer underscores step one in the manufacture of Wampum. You needed a supply of a certain, special and very attractive type of Calcium Carbonate, which was limited in quantities, to begin to do WORK=ENERGY INPUT plus some ARTISTIC CREATIVITY on the seashells in order to produce a CURRENCY that was BOTH a medium of exchange AND a store of value.   



In a barter economy, the transfer of goods and services from one party to another is hindered by the lack of liquidity of say, an animal, a bear skin or whatever. The lack of a medium of exchange that can be subdivided into small enough units for both parties to make up perceived different values in a barter transaction is the need thar fosters the creation of "money" in the first place.

Wampum was initially a form of artistic expression as well as a form of communication (it was a store of value as jewelry and venerable truth through news and agreements).

However, as the quantity gradually increased and most natives agreed more or less on its value, wampum began providing the liquidity that a barter economy could not.

Consequently the Native Americans along the eastern area of North America gradually adopted wampum as a currency in addition to valuing its beauty (jewelry = bling). The Natives that lived along the beach had an edge on those inland because of easy access to the raw materials.



Quote
With the influx of more Europeans in the 17th century, notably the Dutch and English, metal tools became widely available to Indians in the east.

Among these tools were slender metal drills which greatly facilitated the production of wampum. These new tools enabled the Indians to produce uniform beads more quickly and with greater ease.

Applying basic economic principles to wampum as a commodity/currency in the 17th century, it might be assumed that wampum decreased in value as its production was sped up.
On the contrary, its value remained stable.

Again applying the basic economic rule of supply and demand, though the Europeans brought tools that helped to increase wampum production, they also balanced their contribution with an increased demand for the shell beads.

http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo08017.html

Wampum is pretty and, until the Europeans showed up with metal hand tools, a good store of wealth because the amount of energy=work it took to make it as well as the amount of shells available  limited the amount of wampum in circulation.

But those metal thingamajigs the white devils brought made it EASY (LESS TIME & ENERGY=WORK) to make lots of pretty wampum (metal hand drills). This new wampum looked just as good or better than the older stuff made with less sophisticated (non-metal) tools.

At first everybody prospered. There was more wampum, and contrary to standard economic theory that when you increase the currency in circulation, you get inflation, this did not happen right away. Everybody, including the white devils 
, were happy with the wampum economy.

But time passed and things changed.


Quote
As the New England colonists adopted wampum as their standard currency, incidents of fraud (wampum counterfeit) increased.

Both Indian and Englishman were known to pass off inferior or fraudulent wampum to unsuspecting colonials.


In time, regulation and a standardized measure of wampum strands was implemented. A fathom (6 feet) was the most usual measurement and instantly denoted a specific monetary value measured against English shillings, pence, pounds, and so forth.

The fact that legislation was introduced, regulations regarding wampum manufacture were set down, penalties for counterfeit or inferior quality wampum trading were harsh, and in some colonies the rejection of dark wampum for only white (though its value was greater, it was easier to counterfeit by way of dye), all illustrate how dependent the colonists and Indians were on these shell beads.

There was some fluctuation in wampum's value, as is always the case with currency, but by and large, it remained uniformly acceptable and desirable to nearly the end of the 17th century in the colonies and into the 18th century along the frontiers.

Its worth, however, was tenable. Wampum was only good as long as the Indians prized it. If or when that was no longer the case, an economic crash could occur throughout the English colonies that would have had serious consequences in New England, and subsequently, in the mother country as well.

It was this realization, along with the declining demand for fur, that moved the New Englanders to gradually phase out wampum as a currency standard. With silver from the West Indies beginning to circulate in North America, wampum was slowly being replaced by that universally valued commodity, metal coinage.

http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo08017.html

Two things happened:

1) The colonists, who had hitherto absorbed the wampum glut by their demand for the beads, lost interest in wampum partly because they didn't require as many furs (wampum was the currency the colonists used to buy pelts). Wampum lost value as a medium of exchange as the increase in available currency took its toll.

Counterfeiting exacerbated the problem of undermining the medium of exchange value of the currency. A given piece of wampum lost purchasing power because of wampum glut AND a competing currency of coinage.


2) The artistic value part of wampum as a store of wealth suffered as well. Any philatelist can tell you that old stamps get their "value", not from a pretty painting on the stamp, but MAINLY from their scarcity.

This was depressing. Imagine all those hours spent painstakingly making wampum and that neighboring squaw that is all thumbs can suddenly make several times as much as you can just because she has a white devil metal thingamajig to goose production! And now the white devils don't want them as much as they used to either.   ???

But as you can see below, despite its disappearance as a currency, wampum survives to this day as a product of patient craftsmanship, artistry and historical communication.


Double row Wampum is beautiful AND still valuable.

Quote
It is interesting, if not ironic, to note that wampum remains valuable even today. A single wampum bead made from Quahog or Whelk, manufactured in New England coastal areas can cost up to $10! Overseas wampum is less expensive, but still demands a good price. Wampum, the first currency of the new world, has survived as a desired item long enough to be considered a classic.

But it would never regain its position as a medium of exchange/currency.

Vanessa Parker

May 25, 2013

In an effort to maintain a separate and peaceful coexistence, an agreement was made 400 years ago between a group of Haudenosaunee nations and the incoming European settlers who were rapidly arriving. That agreement remains valid today.

The Two Row Wampum was made with strings of wampum, or crushed shells, which were made into purple and white beads threaded onto strings, forming a belt.

The white beads, located outside of two large purple rows of beads, represent the truth.

The purple beads are separated into two rows, one representing the canoe of the Haudenosaunee, the other representing the sailboat of the incoming Europeans.

Each row represents the separate cultures, traditions, governments and religions.

In between the purple rows run three rows of white beads. These represent peace, friendship and maintaining a sense of equality forever.[/size][/quote]
full article here:

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/05/25/celebrating-400-years-two-row-wampum-149469

What lessons can we take from the above Native American experience?

1) Money is created in order to ease the transfer of goods and services. This medium of exchange normally has the following qualities:

A. Liquidity

B. Durability

C. Portability

D. Agreed upon value per unit


2) The ENERGY it takes to create said money is directly proportional to a unit of said money as a store of value.

The extreme situation, never reached by wampum because it always took SOME skill and energy to make, is FIAT currency where it has ZERO value as a store of wealth.

The case of the US dollar is BELOW ZERO as a store of wealth because, in addition to it being fiat, the supply is growing absent any energy input whatsoever. So the dollar loses value as it sits from Fed  inflation (counterfeiting). Legal Tender Laws force the citizenry to run around trying to preserve some value in a currency that shrinks in value year after year. Many of these value chasers go for PMs, paintings, land, antique cars, Early American antique furniture, etc. They are all looking for something that meets the criteria of liquidity, durability, portability and agreed upon value per unit to a greater or lesser degree.

3) Beyond the basic biochemical needs of proper nutrition, shelter and health, human culture places a great deal of value on tangibles and intangibles outside the default requirements of human life.

Humans will always value creativity and imaginative and useful innovations that bring beauty, comfort and utility to our lives as STORES OF VALUE.

What price can you place on a song? What value does a set of verses have that took a song writer 5 minutes to write after he had dreamed them versus a painstakingly written flute sonata?

Hard to say, right? One took a lot less ENERGY than the other, both in kwhs and artistic creativity, but may have sold for a lot more money.

What about greed and other economy influencing factors?

The issue of greed, hoarding, the amount of currency in circulation as a trigger for consumerism or the reverse are all PRODUCTS of distortions in an economy.

Most economists espouse the view  that currency does not simply encourage certain types of behavior deleterious to an economy, but DICTATES IT.

I don't feel that way because I view money as an EFFECT, not a CAUSE. I do agree that the money supply certainly must remain in a fairly constant proportion per capita to avoid distortions.

Food will never be currency simply because, even if you could freeze dry it with solar energy and store it also with solar energy for a hundred years or so to use it as you needed it, there is only so much food you or anybody else can eat.

People want furniture, tools, culture, beauty, some entertainment, etc. A prisoner in solitary confinement goes bonkers even though he has sufficient food, shelter and health care.

Life is MUCH more than food, shelter and health.

Those who disdain precious metals as a store of wealth feel that, since gold hoarders can't eat their gold, it therefore has no intrinsic value. However, as all gold bugs have noticed, gold has the following "money-like" attributes:

A. Liquidity
B. Durability
C. Portability
D. Agreed upon value per unit

Gold bugs observe, rightfully, that the US dollar retains the above attributes by the big gun the government has called Legal Tender Laws, not by reality. This amounts to a government distortion of the value of the currency to for the benefit of the owners of the Federal Reserve Banking Cartel and the detriment (i.e. impoverishment) of the average American citizen.  Consequently they take any excess dollars in their possession and quickly convert them something besides dollars because the value of said dollars, like wampum (eventually,) after the metal hand drills were introduced by the white devils, is going down.

Gold bugs watch the Fed money supply going exponential in direct proportion to the galloping inflation the government refuses to own up to.


This is far worse than wampum inflation because this is raw counterfeiting of fiat! People aware of this start to buy this, that and the other with those magically shrinking dollars from collector's items like stamps to maybe antique furniture to paintings to rare coins to, you guessed it, gold!

Gold is hard to counterfeit. There is a way to use nuclear physics (this is not a joke, it's the real deal!) to transmute some cheap element to gold but the energy expenditure is greater than the energy needed to mine and produced finished gold from ore. However, when fusion becomes a reality, the equation for gold may change and, it too, will go the way of wampum. Don't worry gold bugs, it may be a while yet.*

The Federal Reserve Banking Cartel realizes there are a lot people out there on to their game so they start manipulating  the precious metals paper prices (tanking them) to drive the gold bugs back to the Fed fiat fantasy of a strong dollar. 

I observed this blatant and economically disastrous distortion of currency value and, after thinking about it a while, came to the conclusion that we need something like wampum but without those hand drills or the counterfeiting dye!   My wonderful and innovative Kilowatt Hour Monetary Standard is, horror of horrors,  greeted with hardy harrs and guffaws from the gnomes of the Federal Reserve.    Harrumph! 

ANY currency that is not BOTH a medium of exchange and a store of value will be corrupted, distorted, counterfeited and generally devalued, PERIOD.



The "tokens" or other symbology that is used for such currency obviously introduces DEBT because there might be a whole lot more symbols, tokens or pieces of paper with funny squiggles on them than the ACTUAL store of value represented. THAT'S JUST A DETAIL. If you can avoid corruption and insure transparency, that can be minimized.

The "fear" that hoarders are going to trash the economy by taking money out of circulation is unfounded. That's merely an EFFECT of capitalism. It has nothing to do with the concept of money per se.

This EFFECT is really quite easy to prevent. All you have to do is progressively tax wealth (NOT INCOME!) above X net worth to keep a lid on excess capital accumulation. Thomas Jefferson was in favor of that, as a matter of fact (Google it!).

Once everyone is on board with a stable currency like Kilowatt Hour Equivalents, I would also eliminate the difference between earned and unearned income (capital gains) and progressively tax that too. That appropriate and fair tax structure would serve as an additional DETERRENT hoard and a guarantee that the velocity of money will remain fairly constant. 

Have a nice day.

*
Quote
Nuclear experiments have successfully transmuted lead into gold, but the expense far exceeds any gain.[7]  It would be easier to convert gold into lead via neutron capture and beta decay by leaving gold in a nuclear reactor for a long period of time.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_transmutation
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2015, 06:41:36 pm »
GDP Does Not Measure Progress
 

 Did you know that if we all paid off our debts, the money system would collapse? The entire money supply is on loan to us from the banking system.

 "We need an economic system that allows for stability without relentless growth and consumption." says Tim Jackson, author of "Prosperity Without Growth" in this short film that offers plenty of reasonable and inspiring suggestions for change.

"Enough is Enough"
is about understanding the limits we face and offering a better economic solution that works for both people and the planet.  

Although income has tripled in the US and UK since the 1950's, people have not become any happier. Income is no longer improving people's lives in the wealthy nations, and we need a different measuring stick than GDP.

 Natalie Bennett, leader of the Green Party in the UK and Wales explains that the people who developed the measure of GDP explicitly said: "Do not use this to measure national progress. This is a gross inaccurate figure."

 Here is a well presented synopsis of What Isn't Working, and how we can change course.

 It starts with our own small choices about work, money, what we consume, what we prioritize. That is what will lead to the sea change we need.

 -- Bibi Farber

 This video was produced by Rob Dietz and Dan O'Neill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ-LYElvtEU&feature=player_embedded

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2015, 07:18:21 pm »
Does Being Rich Make You a Self-Centered Lawbreaker? 


Posted on Mar 18, 2015

Work by social psychologist Paul Piff suggests that the more money people have, the more likely they are to cheat or put their needs before those of others.  :(
Quote

BBC News:

In the past, public perception has tended towards the notion that the very poor are more likely to break the rules because they are under financial pressure and face more difficult circumstances.

But Piff’s work suggests the opposite - that having more money makes you care about others less and feel entitled to put your own interests first…After nearly a decade researching this field, Piff has come to the controversial conclusion that being wealthy, rather than transforming you into a benevolent benefactor, can actually be rather bad for your moral fibre…“It isolates you in certain ways from other people psychologically and materially. You prioritise your own needs and your own goals and become less attuned to those around you.

When we feel wealthy, Piff concludes, we need other people less. In the real world, when people have less money, they rely more heavily on their social relationships to get by. Therefore interpersonal relations are prioritized. The rich, by contrast, can buy themselves peace, quiet and space - plus a solution to most problems. There’s nothing like a fat wallet to cheer you up in a crisis. But that tends to isolate them from others’ experiences.

Follow the link, if you dare  ;), for evidence proving that greed IS BAD for YOU, as well as everyone else in society:


http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/heres_how_we_know_being_rich_pretty_much_makes_law-breaking_jerk_20150318
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2015, 07:07:58 pm »
The reason the  blinkered, low IQ offspring of the rich get by better than most of us.    >:(
The meritocracy in the USA is an illusion for the suckers.
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2015, 03:02:03 pm »
Dystopia:

The "currency" of Dystopia:

3 09 Ralph Borsodi Constant Currency

22 § Community Currency Magazine March 2009 Issue
Quote

The BorsodI Constant aka “the Exeter experiment ”InFLatIon Free Currency (approximately 1971-1974)


United States Constitution forbids the counterfeiting of this nation’s currency, however, it in no way limits the circulation of a completely alternative medium of exchange...

3 09 Ralph Borsodi Constant Currency

What MUST we do to have a type of FUNCTIONAL society based on human CARING CAPACITY instead of the exploited biosphere's "carrying capacity"?  ???

We must adopt a currency that reflects REAL VALUE in the biosphere. The use of this currency must nurture LIFE, not reward coercion, greed, war and death.

Ralph Borsodi came up with a local currency called the "CONSTANT".

I like it. With some fine tuning   ;D, it would fit the bill for a Green Libertarian Socialist  currency that would meet the Caring Capacity requirement to nurture LIFE, not reward coercion, greed, war and death.

SNIPPET:
Quote

The first Constants were sold on June 21st 1972. Over a period of about three years, Borsodi presented his ideas to many people who deposited approximately $100,000 in his bank experiment called Arbitrage International and the funds were used to buy the basket of 30 basic commodities on the world market. (Arbitrage International maintained a Luxembourg and a London office, in addition to its temporary headquarters in Exeter, New Hampshire.)

“The value of a Constant was based on that of specific amounts of thirty basic commodities,
including gold, silver, iron, aluminum, lead, copper, nickel, tin, zinc, coal, oil, wheat, barley, rice, rye, oats, soya, maize, wool, cotton, cocoa, coffee, copra, hides, jute, rubber, cement, sulphur and sugar, and holders could sell them at any time for the total of whatever the constituents were then worth:



Borsodi’s organisation, Independent Arbitrage International, recalculated the Constant’s underlying value monthly and let the banks know. “ People who bought Constants from Borsodi’s organisation at, say, $2.18 a 10-Constant note were surprised later when the bank
paid them $2.19 for it” a local newspaperman, Mel Most, wrote after the experiment had been running for seven months.” 

“To everybody’s surprise, even including Borsodi, many people bought Constant notes and made deposits in the bank checking account. At the same time Constants began to circulate around the town of Exeter, where restaurants and other businesses accepted them in payment.”

The participants in the experiment saw the value of their constant rise 17% in three years. 36 months into the test, “...a constant bought in 1970 can still be traded for exactly one constant’s worth of goods . . . while a dollar will now buy only 85% of what it would purchase three years ago.”

3 09 Ralph Borsodi Constant Currency

HERE is the typical BALONEY double talk response from the gooberment:
Quote
What did the U.S. Treasury Department have to say about the private currency? 

A Treasury agent was quoted at the time saying, “We don’t care if he issues pine cones, as long as it is exchangeable for dollars so that transactions can be recorded for tax purposes. ” 


"Tax purposes" DOES NOT HAVE BEANS to do with it and COERCION to make people accept a  worthless fiat currency issued by the "Federal" Reserve has EVERYTHING to do with it. But they don't say that, do they?  ;)  THE INSTANT people with REAL currency try to PROPERLY value fiat dollars (see USED toilet paper or less), the profit over planet counterfeiters get their balls in an uproar. 





« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 05:29:26 pm by AGelbert »
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2015, 05:10:02 pm »
“There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat.”
― Gore Vidal

That said, why vote?

In case you've missed it, I am VEHEMENTLY against BOYCOTTING the vote. Many say we need a new and better system, and agree that the D&R kabuki is a scam - all paid for by the same criminal cabal.... yet boycotters say "we don't have enough people" to make a difference. There's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You should expand this into a Blog Article.

RE

I probably will. It's (at least) half written as a blog post.

Not nearly enough profanity, though...


Voting legitimizes voting.
Not necessarily....



Vote... Don't vote... I don't really care... TPTB don't either....

These are the only presidents they really care about:



As long as you keep using them, THAT is the vote that really matters.

Not necessarily. In fact, 


JD,
I suggest that, in the service of logic and CFS, you casually mention that minor detail called the LEGAL TENDER LAWS when you castigate we-the-people for "supporting voting" by using fiat currency, given "value" by "virtue" of a gun pointed at our heads by TPTB.

And yeah, that APPLIES EQUALLY to the concept that voting has any value whatsoever. ANY argument presented by Surly (a person I have utmost respect for BECAUSE he is honest to the core, NOT because he is erudite - which he most certainly is), if not presented with the caveat that there IS A GUN pointed at our heads 24/7 protecting TPTB in any and all "democratic" activities we-the-people are "urged" to engage in., is NAIVE OR COMPLICIT.

IOW TDOS is RIGHT! No matter how you approach this voting OR fiat currency thing, the game is RIGGED. BUT the REASON the voting is rigged is not just to control the outcome of the vote. THAT is "TAKEN CARE OF" by limiting the choices on the ballot. it is NOT JUST THE RESULTS of voting that are rigged. THE MOST IMPORTANT RIGGING is PSYCHOLOGICAL MINDFU CK. 

The PERCEPTION of Democratic Elections is the sine qua non RIGGING required in an inverted totalitarian system of DICTATORSHIP.

WHY? FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING DOCUMENTED LEGITIMACY in the CORRUPT SYSTEM of TPTB. That is the mindful ck  tool then used to herd us into participating.

HOW? By propagandizing we-the-people with BLAME THE VICTIM castigation that that we are "Aiding" TPTB by not "participating" in voting.

AND THEREFORE, if we do not "vote" (good luck convincing TDOS or me that voting in a U.S. election is voting  8) ), we "deserve whatever corrupt leaders we are saddled with".


Surly, TPTB are evil and stupid in that their world view is ultimately suicidal; but they are clever. Perhaps I am wrong and you are right. But for you to convince me of that, you will have to make a case that invalidates my allegation that TPTB use propaganda with a threat of force (carrot and stick) as a more efficient ( see religion of TPTB =) way to exploit the masses than in-your-face force with 24/7 propaganda that nobody believes (stick with a carrot that looks like a turd).

TPTB like to spend as little energy as possible in keeping us in line, so to speak. They KNOW that they are TOAST if they lose their legitimacy, no matter how much force they have available.

SO, they CONSTANTLY remind us of how WE are the ones that are toast if we rock the boat. The REALITY is, however, that ANY TIME THE PUBLIC WANTS TO, it can become Donald Duck "monitoring" TPTB as in the graphic below. Donald Duck did not do that by voting. 8)



PS added May 16, 2015:


I may have been fooled and Surly has been gaming people to push the baloney that voting has merit. A professional propagandist would certainly pose as a person who is honest to the core. We live and learn. Et Tu Brute. Surly?  ;)

Agelbert message to all clever propagandists posing as honest, responsible humans:

« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 03:26:59 pm by AGelbert »
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2015, 06:49:41 pm »
Paul Craig Roberts explains why Greece will go Drachma AND go Russian financing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBrs7_LKE3M&feature=player_embedded
Paul Craig Roberts on Russian alliance with Greece

Published on Apr 26, 2015


American economist Paul Craig Roberts' report on King World News about the possibility of a Russian alliance with Southern Europe.
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2015, 08:18:05 pm »
Quote
Unless and Until the Ruskies and Chinese can set up their own currency regime not linked to the Dollar, they will be short on Cash.  Even the Chinese will be, because T-Bills are NOT cash.  Think about it.

RE


T-Bills ARE in effect the same thing as cash.

They can print their own cash and it will be accepted by those who wish to do business with them.

They also have the ability to counterfeit all the US dollars they want if they wish. They have done this quite successfully already. Engraving notes is a joke task for these countries with today's technologies. Syria, Libya, and North Korea have been printing dollars for decades.

Am with GO on this one, RE. Am at a loss to understand how T-Bills, which are convertible to cash, are not the same as cash.
Formal logic, yes? If x=1 and x=y, then y=1.

Isn't the real economic issue the fact that the debit based economy has rehypothicated itself to a standstill, and there are far too many promissory notes and loans outstanding in a time of negative (real) growth? And not nearly enough collateral.

Surly,
  What Paul Craig Roberts is clearly stating is this, THERE IS NO PLAN TO EVER collect an "owed" debt to the Vampire Bankers disguised as countries in the EU and the ones that run the USA, PERIOD. That is OBVIOUS by the staunch (and STUPID) refusal of Germany to accept the haircut that Greece has graciously offered.

It's really a repeat of the IRRATIONAL PUNITIVE DEBT INFLATION that was pulled on Germany after WWI. And YEAH, the VAMPIRE BANKERS WANT the same destabilizing results in Greece as they got in Germany. Squeezing people to penury, poverty and despaeration produces radicals, which in turn produces a great excuse for more war, etc. These Greedball Bankers never stop doing what they do.  :P
 
The PLAN is perpetual buck passing, empty promises and perpetual pretense of financial responsibility based on predatory capitalist enslavement of an increasing segment of the Greek populace. Paul Craig Roberts, who knows a thing or two about money and economics, says the Greeks should say, "NUTS TO THAT! and DEFAULT.". THEN they have ZERO DEBT and any future Drachma based debt is Russian financed at reasonable rates on a reasonable debt, not an INVENTED DEBT based on Vampire banking baloney.

And then Paul Craig Roberts underscores how solving the Greek crisis undermines the European Union USA Neocon backed push to go to war with Russia. Greece is the Achilles heel (oh the irony!    ) of the Vampire bankers!
Putin gets that!

Paul Craig Roberts is NOT engaging in hyperbole when he says Putin is emerging as the LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD. I agree.
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2015, 03:10:54 pm »

How To Live A Moneyless Life Like

 
"Mark Boyle" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uTyjvAO6ww&feature=player_embedded
Mark Boyle has been living in the UK near Bath, without money since 2008 in a camper with solar panels he installed beforehand. His plan was to go one year, but he never stopped the experiment.

 Here he shows a reporter from the newspaper Guardian UK how he manages a whole life with no money being exchanged.

 He grows his own food, chops his own wood, built a rocket stove, uses old newspaper for toilet paper, has punctureless tires on his bicycle, makes his own soap and washes his clothes in the stream. He barters work occasionally for oats and other grains, and goes dumpster diving in town for additional food.

 He admits it was daunting in the beginning, but that he is so much more satisfied living according to his ideals. 

 In a TED talk in 2011 he outlined why he chose to create a life without money. After studying economy, he saw clearly the connection between money and well, the disconnection.

"Ecological destruction, factory farms, destroying the oceans, sweat shops, deforestation - this all stems from our delusion that we are separate from nature. We are very disconnected from what we consume.

  We no longer have an appreciation for the embodied energy, embodied destruction and suffering that goes into every stage of the supply chain of the things we buy.   

The tool that enabled this disconnection is money.   

If we all had to grow our own food, we wouldn't waste 1/3 of it as we do today in the UK.

If we had to make our own tables and chairs, we wouldn't chuck them out the moment we decided to change the decor.

Until we reconnect with what we consume, all these problems will continue because we're not getting to the root of the problem, which is our separation from nature, and our separation from what we consume."

 You can follow Mark Boyle's blog, Freeconomy here www.justfortheloveofit.org/blog where he has created a real forum for the new economy, based on barter, sharing and co-creating -- a whole new way of looking at exchange and community among people ready for a new society.

 --Bibi Farber

 This video was produced by the Guardian UK.
- See more at: http://www.nextworldtv.com/videos/new-economy/how-to-live-a-moneyless-life-like-.html#sthash.C8eGJauB.dpuf
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2015, 03:28:11 pm »
“There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat.”
― Gore Vidal

That said, why vote?

In case you've missed it, I am VEHEMENTLY against BOYCOTTING the vote. Many say we need a new and better system, and agree that the D&R kabuki is a scam - all paid for by the same criminal cabal.... yet boycotters say "we don't have enough people" to make a difference. There's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You should expand this into a Blog Article.

RE

I probably will. It's (at least) half written as a blog post.

Not nearly enough profanity, though...


Voting legitimizes voting.
Not necessarily....



Vote... Don't vote... I don't really care... TPTB don't either....

These are the only presidents they really care about:



As long as you keep using them, THAT is the vote that really matters.

Not necessarily. In fact, 


JD,
I suggest that, in the service of logic and CFS, you casually mention that minor detail called the LEGAL TENDER LAWS when you castigate we-the-people for "supporting voting" by using fiat currency, given "value" by "virtue" of a gun pointed at our heads by TPTB.

And yeah, that APPLIES EQUALLY to the concept that voting has any value whatsoever. ANY argument presented by Surly (a person I have utmost respect for BECAUSE he is honest to the core, NOT because he is erudite - which he most certainly is), if not presented with the caveat that there IS A GUN pointed at our heads 24/7 protecting TPTB in any and all "democratic" activities we-the-people are "urged" to engage in., is NAIVE OR COMPLICIT.

IOW TDOS is RIGHT! No matter how you approach this voting OR fiat currency thing, the game is RIGGED. BUT the REASON the voting is rigged is not just to control the outcome of the vote. THAT is "TAKEN CARE OF" by limiting the choices on the ballot. it is NOT JUST THE RESULTS of voting that are rigged. THE MOST IMPORTANT RIGGING is PSYCHOLOGICAL MINDFU CK. 

The PERCEPTION of Democratic Elections is the sine qua non RIGGING required in an inverted totalitarian system of DICTATORSHIP.

WHY? FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING DOCUMENTED LEGITIMACY in the CORRUPT SYSTEM of TPTB. That is the mindful ck  tool then used to herd us into participating.

HOW? By propagandizing we-the-people with BLAME THE VICTIM castigation that that we are "Aiding" TPTB by not "participating" in voting.

AND THEREFORE, if we do not "vote" (good luck convincing TDOS or me that voting in a U.S. election is voting  8) ), we "deserve whatever corrupt leaders we are saddled with".


Surly, TPTB are evil and stupid in that their world view is ultimately suicidal; but they are clever. Perhaps I am wrong and you are right. But for you to convince me of that, you will have to make a case that invalidates my allegation that TPTB use propaganda with a threat of force (carrot and stick) as a more efficient ( see religion of TPTB =  ) way to exploit the masses than in-your-face force with 24/7 propaganda that nobody believes (stick with a carrot that looks like a turd).

TPTB like to spend as little energy as possible in keeping us in line, so to speak. They KNOW that they are TOAST if they lose their legitimacy, no matter how much force they have available.

SO, they CONSTANTLY remind us of how WE are the ones that are toast if we rock the boat. The REALITY is, however, that ANY TIME THE PUBLIC WANTS TO, it can become Donald Duck "monitoring" TPTB as in the graphic below. Donald Duck did not do that by voting. 8)



PS added May 16, 2015:


I may have been fooled and Surly has been gaming people to push the baloney that voting has merit. A professional propagandist would certainly pose as a person who is honest to the core. We live and learn. Et Tu Brute. Surly?  ;)

Agelbert message to all clever propagandists posing as honest, responsible humans:

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2015, 02:18:00 am »
Sunday, 24 May 2015 02:30   
Bernie Sanders Exposes 18 CEOs who took Trillions in Bailouts, Evaded Taxes and Outsourced Jobs
 
Written by  Jason Easley | PoliticusUSA
 
Sen. Bernie Sanders fired back at 80 CEOs who wrote a letter lecturing America about deficit reduction by released a report detailing how 18 of these CEOs have wrecked the economy by evading taxes and outsourcing jobs.   80 CEO’s raised the ire of Sen. Sanders by publishing a letter in the Wall Street Journal urging America to act on the deficit, and reform Medicare and Medicaid.
 
Sen. Sanders responded to the lecture from America’s CEO’s by releasing a report that detailed how 18 of them have helped blow up the deficit and wreck the economy by outsourcing jobs and evading US taxes.

Sanders said,

There really is no shame. The Wall Street leaders whose recklessness and illegal behavior caused this terrible recession are now lecturing the American people on the need for courage to deal with the nation’s finances and deficit crisis. Before telling us why we should cut Social Security, Medicare and other vitally important programs, these CEOs might want to take a hard look at their responsibility for causing the deficit and this terrible recession.

Our Wall Street friends might also want to show some courage of their own by suggesting that the wealthiest people in this country, like them, start paying their fair share of taxes. They might work to end the outrageous corporate loopholes, tax havens and outsourcing provisions that their lobbyists have littered throughout the tax code – contributing greatly to our deficit.

Many of the CEO’s who signed the deficit-reduction letter run corporations that evaded at least $34.5 billion in taxes by setting up more than 600 subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands and other offshore tax havens since 2008. As a result, at least a dozen of the companies avoided paying any federal income taxes in recent years, and even received more than $6.4 billion in tax refunds from the IRS since 2008.

Several of the companies received a total taxpayer bailout of more than $2.5 trillion from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department.

Many of the companies also have outsourced hundreds of thousands of American jobs to China and other low wage countries, forcing their workers to receive unemployment insurance and other federal benefits. In other words, these are some of the same people who have significantly caused the deficit to explode over the last four years.

Here are the 18 CEO’s Sanders labeled job destroyers in his report. (All data from Top Corporate Dodgers report.)

1). 1. Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan

Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $1.9 billion tax refund.
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department? Over $1.3 trillion.

Amount of federal income taxes Bank of America would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $2.6 billion.
 
2). Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2008? Zero. $278 million tax refund.
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department? $824 billion.
Amount of federal income taxes Goldman Sachs would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $2.7 billion
 
3). JP Morgan Chase CEO James Dimon
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department? $416 billion.
Amount of federal income taxes JP Morgan Chase would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $4.9 billion.
 
4). General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $3.3 billion tax refund.
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve? $16 billion.
Jobs Shipped Overseas? At least 25,000 since 2001.

5). Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $705 million tax refund.
American Jobs Cut in 2010? In 2010, Verizon announced 13,000 job cuts, the third highest corporate layoff total that year.
 
6). Boeing CEO James McNerney, Jr.
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? None. $124 million tax refund.
American Jobs Shipped overseas? Over 57,000.
Amount of Corporate Welfare? At least $58 billion.

7). Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer
Amount of federal income taxes Microsoft would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $19.4 billion.

8 ). Honeywell International CEO David Cote
Amount of federal income taxes paid from 2008-2010? Zero. $34 million tax refund.
 
9). Corning CEO Wendell Weeks
Amount of federal income taxes paid from 2008-2010? Zero. $4 million tax refund.

10). Time Warner CEO Glenn Britt
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2008? Zero. $74 million tax refund.
 
11). Merck CEO Kenneth Frazier
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2009? Zero. $55 million tax refund.

12). Deere & Company CEO Samuel Allen
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2009? Zero. $1 million tax refund.

13). Marsh & McLennan Companies CEO Brian Duperreault
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $90 million refund.

14). Qualcomm CEO Paul Jacobs
Amount of federal income taxes Qualcomm would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $4.7 billion.

15). Tenneco CEO Gregg Sherill
Amount of federal income taxes Tenneco would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $269 million.

16). Express Scripts CEO George Paz
Amount of federal income taxes Express Scripts would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $20 million.
 
17). Caesars Entertainment CEO Gary Loveman
Amount of federal income taxes Caesars Entertainment would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $9 million.

18). R.R. Donnelly & Sons CEO Thomas Quinlan III
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2008? Zero. $49 million tax refund.

Eighteen of the 80 CEOs who signed the call for deficit action are actually some of the biggest outsourcers and tax cheats in America. First, they crashed the economy in 2008. They followed that up by taking billions in taxpayer bailout dollars. Their next step was to outsource jobs and evade taxes. Now they are calling for action on a deficit that they helped create over the past four years.

Bernie Sanders is exposing the hypocrisy of these CEOs, and every American should understand that if Mitt Romney is elected president, these pigs see potential for unlimited feeding from the taxpayer trough. Only by standing together can we tell these CEOs that the bill has come due, and it is time for them to pay.

We can tell these gluttons of our dollars that the all you can eat taxpayer buffet is now closed.

 

Original article on PoliticusUSA
http://pdafund.com/component/k2/item/65-bernie-sanders-exposes-18-ceos-who-took-trillions-in-bailouts-evaded-taxes-and-outsourced-jobs
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2015, 12:23:55 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRTgRQbGeQE&feature=player_embedded
The Mega Crash is coming soon.  :P

Watch all four videos in sequence. Learn how the Neocon CRIMINALS want to forgive Ukraine's debt but refuse to do the same for Greece. Learn how Germany, the main country that does NOT want to forgive Greece's debt or take a haircut, had ITS DEBT hugely reduced in 1953 AFTER they had destroyed and tortured most of Europe during Hitler's horrors. Talk about hypocrisy!  :(
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2015, 05:38:31 pm »
Jamie Dimon displays his EMPATHY DEFICT DISORDER
Quote
This week, Jamie Dimon, CEO of mega-bank JPMorgan Chase, told a Chicago audience that he doesn’t know if Senator Elizabeth Warren “fully understands the global banking system.”

Elizabeth Warren is having none of it. Friday she fired back, telling the Huffington Post, "The problem is not that I don’t understand the global banking system. The problem for these guys is that I fully understand the system and I understand how they make their money. And that’s what they don’t like about me."

Donate $3 or more today and your donation will be matched 2-to-1 by a generous donor who shares Elizabeth Warren's values.

Jamie Dimon was a key player in the 2008 financial crisis that killed millions of jobs, destroyed the savings of millions of American families, and plunged the global economy into chaos.

Meanwhile, Elizabeth Warren has studied the global banking system for more than 20 years, sits on the Senate Banking Committee, taught about banking at Harvard University and -- oh yeah! -- oversaw the bailout of Jamie Dimon's bank.

Donate $3 or more today and your donation will be matched 2-to-1.

This isn't the first encounter between Dimon and Senator Warren. In her book A Fighting Chance, Warren writes about a tense 2013 meeting with the JPMorgan Chase CEO:

When the conversation turned to financial regulation and Dimon began complaining about all the burdensome rules his bank had to follow, I finally interrupted. I was polite, but definite… [I told him] “I think you guys are breaking the law.”

Suddenly Dimon got quiet. He leaned back and slowly smiled. “So hit me with a fine. We can afford it.”

Well, guess what? In November 2013, Dimon's bank paid a $13 billion settlement for funding bad mortgages. Then last month, JPMorgan Chase was one of five banks to pay a $5.7 billion fine for global currency manipulation. In fact, in one quarter of 2013, Dimon’s bank spent more on legal fees than it did on paying its entire staff.

http://boldprogressives.org/
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2015, 09:37:27 pm »
I think Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Ronald Reagan, has the situation in Greece analyzed correctly:

SNIPPET:

Quote
The alleged “Greek crisis” makes no sense whatsoever. It is obvious that Greece cannot with its devastated economy repay the debts that Goldman Sachs hid and then capitalized on the inside information, helping to cause the crisis. If the solvency of the holders of the Greek debt, apparently the NY hedge funds and German and Dutch banks, depends on being repaid, the European Central Bank could just follow the example of the Federal Reserve and print the money to secure the Greek debt. The ECB is already printing 60 billion euros a month to save the European financial system, so why not include Greece?

A conservative might say that such a course of action would cause inflation, but it hasn’t. The Fed has been creating money hands over fists for seven years, and according to the government there is no inflation. We even have negative interest rates attesting to the absence of inflation. Why will creating money for Greece create inflation but not for Goldman Sachs, Citibank, and JPMorganChase?

Obviously, the Western world doesn’t want to help Greece. The West wants to loot Greece. The deal is that Greece gets new loans with which to repay existing loans in exchange for selling municipal water companies to private investors (water rates will go up on the Greek people), for selling the state lottery to private investors (Greek government revenues drop, thus making debt repayment more difficult), and for other such “privatizations” such as selling the protected Greek islands to real estate developers.

This is a good deal for everyone but Greece.


If the Greek government had any sense, it would simply default. That would make Greece debt free. With just a few words, Greece can go from a heavily indebted country to a debt-free country.

Greece could then finance its own bond issues, and if it needed external credit, Greece could accept the Russian offer.

Indeed, if the Russian and Chinese governments had any sense, they would pay Greece to default and to leave the EU and NATO. The unravelling of Washington’s empire would begin, and the threat of war that Russia and China face would go away. The Russians and Chinese would save far more on unnecessary war preparation that saving Greece would cost them.

Starvation Is The Price Greeks Will Pay For Remaining In The EU
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2015, 02:55:21 pm »
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them. Pr. 22:22-23

 

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