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Author Topic: Money  (Read 6111 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #555 on: January 11, 2019, 04:59:32 pm »

Agelbert NOTE: The following comments tell the hard truths that the article they reference gets exactly backwards. Powell, like all the U.S. Oligarchy front people at the Fed, has always been a double talking, ex nihilo money (i.e. counterfeiting) liar.

Quote
monkjo
Yeah...all that QE and "free" money created the illusion of prosperity and profitability for corporations with deep enough pockets to get those large low interest cash infusions for buybacks and such.

It's scary that the "masters of our destiny"  don't seem to grasp the concept of equilibrium.  If you put your thumb on the scale, it's not gonna stay down after you remove your thumb just because you want it to!

tictawk
There IS a finite point to how high the Fed can pump this market via its open market operations, QE etc.  It has probably been reached last year.  Now its only a question of how high this secondary rally can go.  Dow 26,000?  Nasdaq 7000 (fib .618) are possible targets.  Does Powell have the balls to make the hard choices to tame the monster they have created?  I think not and the market knows it.  That's why just the market rallied based merely on the moderating talk from Powell.  Every one of these Fed chiefs are unprincipled, double talking fraudsters who do not care that their policies have resulted in impoverishing the masses at the lower end of the economic spectrum.  When the buying power of the medium of exchange (the dollar) is destroyed, it destroys those living on the margin.  This is THE REASON we are seeing tent cities mushrooming all over America as costs rise and the poor cannot afford basic necessities.

    shiekurbootie
    Those that MUST own 401k's are the hostages.  The Fed is the guard with the gun.

    The removal of defined benefit retirement plans, including all federal gov't civilians, has caused wild ride on Wall St.

    Citizens have few options other than the company offered 401k (or similar) plan.

    The stock market goes up- Citizens feel comfortable or rich!

    The stock market goes down-Mental depression and the realization that it was all a scam....

by Tyler Durden Fri, 01/11/2019 - 15:13

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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #556 on: January 11, 2019, 07:27:24 pm »
China Leads the Way in Eradicating Extreme Poverty

January 10, 2019

Greatest contribution to global poverty reduction has come from China says Mark Weisbrot of the Center for Economic and Policy Research

Story Transcript

MARC STEINER: Welcome to The Real News Network. I’m Marc Steiner, it’s great to have you all with us once again.

We’re watching intense struggles taking place between the United States and China. There’s a lot under that we’re not seeing. And we see the Huawei executive, Meng Wanzhou, arrested in Canada. We hear of tariff battles going on, what do they really mean? Stock market crashing, is that connected? Then, we see other reports about plummeting poverty around the world. But that too seems to be wrapped up in China in ways that we don’t take a deep understanding of. But beneath of that is another reality, that the world is in the middle of a war over globalization. And some of the things we do not want to tackle, like most of the poverty that has been wiped out in the world has taken place where? China.

And mostly lost on debates of angst over trade and jobs and the rise of the right wing populists in the world is that the fastest growing economy on the planet is China. And it’s pulling all along with it parts of Asia and the developing world as China positions itself as the greatest importer of the world’s goods, which we’ll explore. And the left seems to have little response, which will also explore. So what do we make of all this and what this reality says, and what does China bring to the world and what does this say about the former state capitalism that seems to be showing itself to be the strongest among many others? What are we misjudging here, and what does it portend for neoliberalism and the future, both politically and economically?

We’ll find out as much as we can. Joining us today from Washington, DC is Mark Weisbrot. Mark is codirector of the Center for Economic and Policy Research and author of the book Failed: What the Experts Got Wrong About the Global Economy. And Mark, welcome back to The Real News. Good to have you with us.

MARK WEISBROT: Thanks, Marc. Good to be with you.

MARC STEINER: There’s so much here. So let me just start with kind of a popular idea here. So we see Trump constantly thumping the table, his Tweets I should say, that we have to have tariffs, that we have to cut off China, we have to battle them and keep jobs in America, even though that’s not happening. So we see this battle around globalization promoted by Trump, and many other things, the notion workers are losing jobs, which they are. So what’s the reality between the Trumpian bellicoseness and the reality we’re facing?

MARK WEISBROT: Well, first of all, you see one response from the people who are defending the globalization of the last few decades, in the media here especially, is that they’re willing to concede that for most workers here, globalization has been a loss in the United States and in the rich countries. But they say, well, what about the more than a billion people in the world who have benefited from their globalization? And this is one of the defenses. It’s not the main one, but it’s an appeal to liberals, to people who care about the rest of the world. They say you can’t disrupt this kind of global order. And that’s not to say that Trump is doing anything positive with his random tariffs and just creating distractions all the time. But they do defend the global economic order in this way, so I think it’s important we have an understanding of what globalization has really looked like for the poorest people in the world.

Now, one of the things that you see in the news and in these arguments is that extreme poverty, which the World Bank measures as $1.90 a day, people living on $1.90 a day in 2011 with purchasing power parity dollars, and that has dropped. In the last 25 years, it’s fallen by 1.16 billion people, and of course in percentage terms the drop looks even more. But if you look at where that happened, the net decline in the number of extremely poor people has mostly been in China. Two thirds, that’s 65 percent of it, has been in China. And so, if you take China out of the picture, you have very little reduction in net poverty.

And then, of course, even for that other third that wasn’t Chinese people coming out of extreme poverty, that other third was also helped a lot by China in the 21st century especially, because China became the largest economy in the world and it started importing more and more from Africa and from Latin America and from other countries, other developing countries. And so, many of the people who were pulled out of poverty in those countries, that other third of the net poverty reduction, was also a result of China. So when all of these people you see in the media, including President Obama in 2016 made this argument as well at the United Nations, and they’re praising the globalization that they have brought to the world, their kind of neoliberal globalization, they’re really talking about the success of China and not the success of their brand of globalization, because that was very, very different from the policies produced by China.

MARC STEINER: So they must know this reality, right?

MARK WEISBROT: Oh, yeah. I mean, you can put any economist in the country who knows anything about this and they’re not going to disagree with any of it. These are World Bank statistics, World Bank data, IMF data, and nobody really disagrees on it. And they will all say this, they just won’t say it unless you ask them.

MARC STEINER: So if that’s the case – well let’s take a step back for a moment. So we know that China, I mean it has a different system than most Western countries, as we’ve talked about earlier; controlling the banking system, their own exchange rate, state owned enterprises, as opposed to corporations kind of controlling politics, their politics controls the corporations in China. So how does that factor into all this in terms of what China is able to do, the West cannot, and why neoliberal democracies in the West are having such a difficult time coming to grips with all of this?

MARK WEISBROT: Well throughout this period, since 1980, they’ve increased their per capita income 17 times. No country in the history of the world has ever done anything even comparable to that, even though their economy is slowing now, but as you mentioned, still about the fastest in the world at six and a half percent annual growth. And so, they were able to control investment and make sure that even the foreign investment that came into the country, and this is one of the things that Trump complains about, there are restrictions on it and they make sure, through most of this period at least, they made sure that the foreign investment fit in with their development plans.

The government controls the central bank, and that’s very important. And the reforms that the neoliberal globalization then, the U.S. and the IMF and the World Bank, which are controlled by the U.S. in most of the world, they push it completely differently, they want the central bank to be independent of the government, to be unaccountable, like our Federal Reserve is mostly unaccountable and they’ve caused almost all of the recessions in the post-World War II period and are likely to cause the next one. So these are advantages for China in that first, they didn’t follow the neoliberal globalization that the United States pushed all over the world, and that enabled them, for example, to transition smoothly, with very fast growth, from a planned economy to a more mixed economy of both market and planning.

Whereas if you look at what happened to Russia and the Eastern European countries, they went through a terrible collapse and a Great Depression in Russia. From 1992 to 1996, they had something comparable to our Great Depression, they didn’t really start to recover till ’98. And so, they went through terrible transitions that cost them a lot in terms of poverty and life expectancy and other social indicators. And that’s been the pattern, by the way, for most low and middle income countries between 1980 and 2000. That period in particular was a very bad one for the vast majority of developing countries as compared to prior years.

MARC STEINER: One of the things I think about this is the New Year’s message that came out of China, from the leaders of China, was that “we’re a 5000 year old civilization, the West can’t tell us what to do, we know what we’re doing.” So the question is, in many ways what you’re describing here is a state system that has adopted huge portions of capitalism inside their system but controlling it, while the Wild West version of neoliberalism is kind of falling apart on some levels around the world, or the countries at least they invested in are falling apart. So this sets up an interesting debate I don’t think most people have had about what’s really a war here in terms of systems and what they’re saying to the world. China clearly wants to make a profit. They’ve clearly got huge influence in Africa and Latin America now, growing every day, so I think that’s something that we have not explored at all in terms of what the planet’s really facing.

MARK WEISBROT: Yeah, there are a lot of differences. I mean, for example, China invests in Africa, they invest in Latin America, they invest a lot of countries, but they don’t use the World Bank or the IMF to try and tell those countries what their macroeconomic policies should be. So for most developing countries, it’s a better deal to get investment from China than it would be, for example, from U.S. corporations, or to get loans, for example, from the World Bank and the IMF which have these conditions attached to them. So there’s a difference in their foreign economic policy. But there are just many, many differences between them. Obviously, the Chinese model is – there are many things that are not perfect with it or not right in that it wouldn’t apply, for example, to the United States, to a developed country, many elements of it.

But nonetheless, as a developing country it’s obviously been an enormous success. And you can’t attribute it to the globalization that all of the defenders of Washington-sponsored globalization are referring to. They promoted very opposite policies; the privatization of state-owned enterprises all over the developing world, the liberalization, deregulation of the financial sector and financial services, all kinds of deregulation of the labor market to weaken unions, and all the things that they promoted. Also, in many countries they redistributed income upward as well. And China, of course, has also had an increase in inequality that’s quite large, but their growth was so rapid that it was able to pull seven to eight hundred million people out of poverty.

MARC STEINER: So in the time that we have here, I mean I think it’d be important to explore just how we judge economies. And one of the things that we never take into account is this idea of purchasing power parity and judging economies that way and how we really adjust our view of how economies are doing. So talk a bit about that and what that kind of masks.

MARK WEISBROT: Yeah, that’s kind of important because in the news, they often say that China’s going to become bigger than the U.S. economy in X years, and that’s using an exchange rate measure. So they just take the Chinese economy in its own currency and they measure it in dollars at the exchange rate between the renminbi and the dollar. And that’s one measure of the two economies, but it’s not the one that most economists use for most international comparisons. Most economists would use for most purposes what’s called purchasing power parity, which adjusts for prices between the two countries. So this is very important for example for military power, because it doesn’t cost as much to train a pilot and build a plane in China as it does in the United States.

So if you adjust for prices in this way, and the IMF has this measure on their website and you can see it in other places, the Chinese economy is already 25 percent bigger than the economy of the United States. And in 2023, it’s going to be one and a half times the size of the United States. And in the next decade, in ten years or so, it’ll be twice as big as the United States. And that’s going to be a very different world. And for people who, and there are a lot of people like this in the foreign policy establishment, they want to have an arms race with China, a country that’s twice the size of us, that’s going to be extremely costly, not even really feasible. We had an arms race with the Soviet Union when it was a quarter the size of our economy and it was costly.

So this is something that we should be thinking about. And it’s very hard to say these things here the United States now when China’s being portrayed as an enemy, but we should take account of these facts that all economists know.

MARC STEINER: Well, I’d love to pick up on that point and do a great deal more the next time. Mark Weisbrot, I always appreciate your views here and your company at The Real News, thank you so much for joining us today.

MARK WEISBROT: Thank you.

MARC STEINER: And I’m Marc Steiner, here for The Real News Network. Take care.

https://therealnews.com/stories/china-leads-the-way-in-eradicating-extreme-poverty
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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #557 on: January 12, 2019, 05:00:03 pm »
January 11, 2019

SNIPPET:

Quote
JACQ JONES: 👍 It is in the best interests of any business to ensure that their employees are able to meet their own basic needs. This is also a matter of ethics for me. I may be old fashioned, but I believe that I should not be relying on government subsidies to stay in business. If I am paying my employees at a level where they are relying on food stamps to eat and Section 8 for housing, the government is picking up the tab on my substandard wages. That’s not an ethical business; that’s stealing from the taxpayers.

Read or view:


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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #558 on: January 24, 2019, 07:32:50 pm »
Support the show! Become an EU patron on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/economicupdate

Economic Update: [S9 E03] Politicians Faking it

THIS WEEK'S TOPICS (w/timestamps):

00:54 - Updates on Luxembourg making all public transportation free;
03:18 - how Europe is evading U.S. sanctions on Iran;
06:15 - Saudi Arabia 👹 sleaze deals with Trump
08:58 - Deutsche Bank’s 💵🎩🍌 massive corruption;
13:39 - and how Pompeo's anti-China strategy contradicts Trump "nationalism;"
15:18 - announcements.
15:57 - SPECIAL GUEST:  journalist Bob Hennelly on politicians 😈 betraying workers' and local citizens' needs


Economic Update: Politicians 😈 Faking It
21,596 views

Democracy At Work 

Published on Jan 21, 2019


To watch the second half of the interview, please visit us at https://www.patreon.com/economicupdate
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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #559 on: January 25, 2019, 06:27:36 pm »
By Tyler Durden

Fri, 01/25/2019 - 16:02

SNIPPET:

China Manufacturing, European Economy, and US Hope all plunging further... so buy stocks right?    

Bad global news is great stocks news?

And then there's this...

So what is lifting stocks? Well that's easy...💵🎩🍌😈


 

Full article with more reality based charts:



Quote
The PPT and the Central banks are doing a tremendous job propping my big fat ugly bubble back up. Kudos to them. Fresh money for the parasites on Wall Street and inflation for my retarded followers.

                                                                                                             Sincerely yours

                                                                                                             The orange roach



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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #560 on: February 01, 2019, 10:59:32 pm »
Republican Estate Tax Repeal: An Effort to Avoid Ever Being Taxed

February 1, 2019

While Sen. Bernie Sanders proposes an important increase in the estate tax, Republicans are gearing for its complete repeal. Morris Pearl of the group Patriotic Millionaires, talks about how the Republicans’ plan would help the rich from ever being taxed


https://therealnews.com/stories/republican-estate-tax-repeal-an-effort-to-avoid-ever-being-taxed
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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #561 on: February 11, 2019, 06:15:26 pm »
February 11, 2019

SNIPPET:

Quote
Reality is what was promised to be emergency measures during the financial crisis have become permanent measures. What was promised to be reverted to normal can’t be reverted. Too great has been the debt expansion during the easy money years giving both governments and corporations license to load up on debt. And now they can’t normalize, they can’t raise rates, and they can’t stop intervening.

The emerging truth: Central banks 👹💵🎩🍌🏴‍ will never “normalize” rates, they will never revert their balance sheets to pre-crisis levels, and they will never stop interfering with markets.

But they will not admit this to the public. What they will do is sanctimoniously complain about income inequality, the very income inequality they have helped propagate for decades.
Powell last week:

“Speaking at a town hall in Washington D.C. to a group of educators, the central bank leader said his greatest economic fears lie outside the Fed’s purview . Specifically, he called for more aggressive policies to address income inequality.

“Wages at the middle and lower levels have “grown much more slowly” than those at the higher end, he said. “We want prosperity to be widely shared . We need policies to make that happen,” Powell added”.


Out of the Fed’s purview? Seriously? That’s revisionist history in the making as central bank policies have helped to greatly exacerbate wealth inequality by inflating the asset classes owned by the few. To not acknowledge this is to be revealed to not be serious about the issue.

After all, what has screwed the middle class has helped produce the system we have now, a system that produces ever more wealth for the few at the expense of the many.

But you wouldn’t be able to tell this from the Fed pablum about how it only cares about doing a good job for the American people:

Full article:

The Fed is trapped, the ECB is trapped, the BOJ is trapped - all doomed to intervene forever and ever amen always afraid to see markets go through a process of repricing and squeezing out the artificial asset inflation that 10 years of permanent intervention have wrought.

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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #562 on: February 14, 2019, 08:22:30 pm »
Taxing Waters Rising

bY flycaster  👍👍👍

2019/02/14 · 12:48

SNIPPET:

The place was packed with guys like me 40+ white working class/farmers, hey it’s rural Wisconsin, and they were all bitching about one thing. Taxes.

It wasn’t the quietly disgruntled sort of mildly irritated bitching. It was a seething sort of muted rage that comes from people who are seriously pissed and are looking for someone to blame kind of bitching. Then ol’ Chuck Grassley appears on the TV pontificating about taxes. Ho Boy. Spark meet gasoline 💥. Even the owner and waitresses lost their sh it. I think “Bald faced fu cking liar” was the mildest term I heard used and that was a waitress. Could be wrong though. It was loud.

Everyone and I do mean every single person in that establishment started comparing just what they had to cough up in taxes or just how small their return was going to be if they got one compared to last years. People were going to be short 5k minimum on their refunds. Others were in the hole to the IRS up to 12k. Vacations were being canceled. Repairs and purchases are being postponed. Vehicles are not going to be purchased.

Then the farmers started bitching about who they were going to sell soybeans to. What should they plant? Corn? Soybeans? It’s time to order seed you know? How can I make a profit if I can’t sell what I grow? Is this China sh it going to be sorted out soon? Who gives a fu ck about a border wall I need fu cking laborers. Does that fat orange bastard really know what the fu ck he’s doing? 50% of these people voted for Trump, Walker and Duffy. Now granted there were some MAGA hat wearing folks in there and a couple spouted off about staying the course and talking points. My did that go over well. Not.

Long story short they eventually brought up her e-mails. Whoopsie. An older farmer who could probably buy the place stood up and said his piece.

“You voted for republicans in 2016 because you were angry about a black man being president for eight years and there was no damned way you were going to have a woman, let alone that woman be president. You got what you wanted. It wasn’t just that shitbag Trump. It was republicans in the House of Representatives and republicans in the Senate that drafted these tax laws you’re all cryin’ about. You’re stupid. You never learned nothing. You don’t look at history. Republicans ALWAYS do what really rich people tell’em to. It ain’t about fags, blacks, Jesus, God, her emails, abortions, guns, or any of that other sh it they holler about. Religious freedom don’t need no special laws it’s right there in that constitution they keep spittin’ on. It’s about the money. It’s about how they can take your money and give it to people 👹🎩🍌 who flat don’t fu cking need it. All of you need to grow up and take responsibility for your damned government. 2018 was a damned fine year. Democrats in charge of congress again.”

Then Mr. MAGA Major bigmouth 😈 just had to ...

Full Post:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/2/14/1834699/-Taxing-Waters-Rising
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Re: Money
« Reply #563 on: February 21, 2019, 06:35:12 pm »
Socialism is Practical Christianity   

http://www.thechristianleft.org/

First thing a minute of searching popped up.  I knew something would be out there.



The big dog , if he/she exists does not give two fucks about 401Ks.  The big dog , if he/she exists also would care if dogs helped other dogs.  I consider both statements true. 

Socialism resonates the love your neighbor as you love yourself message.  To love your neighbor as you love yourself and get change back from your dollar.  That is what it is all about!

My father told me socialism and Christianity were about the same.  He also saw differences but I'll say, true Christians and true socialists do have something in common. 

Both are rare.

   Yep.

The problem is that most people who talk the Christian talk do not walk the Christian talk.


If you believe in Christianity as espoused by most modern Christian sects, it was a miracle.

Miracle or not, it's still giving away Free Food to Poor People.  It's like the SNAP Card program on steroids.

Jesus is like the POTUS.  John & Paul are the Speaker of the House and President Pro Temp of the Senate.  The rest of the disciples are the members of CONgress.  Now, they could have given the fishies to the Military to beef that up, or they could have voted to give themselves a raise.  They could have Privatized the Fishies and sold them off to any of the Sermon attendees who could afford them.  But they didn't do any of that.  They GAVE the fishies to Poor People!

Did Jesus charge through the nose for his medical services when he went around helping the blind to see and the crippled to walk?  No, he performed his services for free.  Did Jesus have a big McMansion and the best new Camel to ride around on?  No, he lived just as poor or poorer than his patients.

You don't get more Socialist than Jesus.

RE
The few times Jesus encountered the oppressive Roman Empire, he rebuked his follower for trying to rise up against them and let them beat and kill him. He also told people to keep paying them taxes. All this considering he could have just as easily called on a legion of angels to destroy the politicians and banksters of the day and start fresh. Yeah, sounds like quite the socialist revolutionary to me...

Another cafeteria Christian announces himself.

     


Well said, RE ✨ and Surly ✨.

Agelbert NOTE: Ashvin is a lawyer. He claims to be a Christian but every post he makes, like the one above, proves that he is a Capitalist 😈 lover of money.   

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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #564 on: February 22, 2019, 01:10:28 pm »

As far as capitalist economies promote freedom of organization and flow of capital/people/information without undue state coercion, and recognizes the sinful nature of humans, it is in line with Christian principles. Our economic arrangements seep into social and culture and politics, so the less coercion the better in most areas. However that's about as far as I would take it.  What's a much better match with Christian principles is a constitutional republic, with fundamental rights and responsibilities, vertically divided government, specialized branches, checks and balances, staggered terms, so on and so forth. What the forefathers managed to accomplish here is truly a miracle.

Thank you for well and truly demonstrating that you are insane. Irredeemably. A bag-em-and-tag-em nutcase.


Quote
As far as capitalist economies promote freedom of organization and flow of capital/people/information without undue state coercion, and recognizes the sinful nature of humans, it is in line with Christian principles.

What does this statement even mean? this is as devoid of relationship to the real world as is the worldview of the typical Fox News viewer to the political landscape. Neoliberalism posits a universe where every action a market transaction, conducted in competition with all others. the perfection of free market fundamentalism. We've been steadily marching toward this exalted state since St. Reagan. Do you really think we have  "flow of capital/people/information" without the fat thumb of corporate lobbyists influencing legislation with the specific aim of picking winners and losers? Ever heard of ALEC? How about Murray Energy, trying to get Trump to set aside the TVA's decision to close a coal fired plant? And what is, "undue state coercion?" Taxation? In the view of tiresome free market fundamentalists like you, "undue state coercion" is any law of regulation. that keeps the boot of a rich man off the neck of a poor man.

And as for "capitalism recognizing the sinful nature of human," it's to laugh. Capitalism thrives upon the sinful nature of humans. To the extent it recognizes it all. Capitalism is completely indifferent to all human qualities aside from greed. Capitalism demands that we are all Ferengi. "Capitalist economies" promote only their own profits. It means money talks and, unless you have some to contribute, just shut the fu ck up and have the human decency to die, and die quickly.

The Holy Mary, Mother of God herself, Margaret Thatcher, even famously said, "There's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbors. Maybe. If there's anything left. And if we feel like it." And we all gathered the electronic campfire for s'mores and a chuckle when Dutch said, "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem," which is the Lord's Prayer of free market fundamentalists. Which Christian principles is this in line with, aside from "Render unto Caesar?" Which we are taught Jesus meant as a call to look beyond the cares of this world, and which FMFs hear as, "Make sure Caesar gets his."

Utterly delusional.


Jesus, man, this should be straightforward, but I'll break it down for you a bit.

Nothing is ever straighforward with you, as you like to shade, reframe and obfuscate with every post. right out of the Frank Luntz playbook. Unfortunately, those here can read for comprehension.

What does this statement even mean? this is as devoid of relationship to the real world as is the worldview of the typical Fox News viewer to the political landscape. Neoliberalism posits a universe where every action a market transaction, conducted in competition with all others. the perfection of free market fundamentalism. We've been steadily marching toward this exalted state since St. Reagan. Do you really think we have  "flow of capital/people/information" without the fat thumb of corporate lobbyists influencing legislation with the specific aim of picking winners and losers? Ever heard of ALEC? How about Murray Energy, trying to get Trump to set aside the TVA's decision to close a coal fired plant?

The idea of lobbyists influencing legislation that PICKS winner and losers in the market is exactly anathema to the goals of free market capitalism. In contrast, picking the winners is the STATED GOAL of socialist utopias.

All organized institutions will tilt towards corruption and tyranny over time and need to be balanced out and refreshed. This is NOT a symptom of capitalism and can't be, because it has has been happening for thousands of years.

And this has exactly what to do with the corruption we observe now, and the public willingness of the elected "people's servants" to do anything abpout it? And where do you get off making such sweeping statements about "organized institutions" and thousands of years. Adduce your evidence. Point us to your book. We'll wait.

IOW, who the fu ck are you to pronounce such an opinion like holy writ?


And what is, "undue state coercion?" Taxation? In the view of tiresome free market fundamentalists like you, "undue state coercion" is any law of regulation. that keeps the boot of a rich man off the neck of a poor man.

It's like you just ignored the word "undue" as if it does't mean anything, when it clearly does. There are plenty examples of undue state coercion throughout history, the most egregious examples happening in the 20th century under socialist and fascist regimes. I am not against taxation or regulations - my career is entirely based on a system of federal regulations that FORCES creditors to take losses on unaffordable debts. I am against your socialist ideology which would direct the state to forcibly take other people's property in the name of "compassion for the poor" (actually vengeance against the perceived oppressors) and redistribute it to whoever your , or whichever group of ideologues seize power, sees fit.

Quote
And as for "capitalism recognizing the sinful nature of human," it's to laugh. Capitalism thrives upon the sinful nature of humans. To the extent it recognizes it all. Capitalism is completely indifferent to all human qualities aside from greed. Capitalism demands that we are all Ferengi. "Capitalist economies" promote only their own profits. It means money talks and, unless you have some to contribute, just shut the fu ck up and have the human decency to die, and die quickly.

Any system of organization which predicates itself on the ability of humans to achieve some utopian state of affairs from the top down FAILS to recognize the sinful nature of humans. Free markets recognize that nature in so far as they work from the bottom up. However I have never denied that the capitalist ideal can become utopian in its orientation if not kept in check.

Translation: I [Ashvin] got nothin'. The government has utterly no interest in human nature aside from its ability to choose winners who can profit from sin, or to tax it.

Quote
The Holy Mary, Mother of God herself, Margaret Thatcher, even famously said, "There's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbors. Maybe. If there's anything left. And if we feel like it." And we all gathered the electronic campfire for s'mores and a chuckle when Dutch said, "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem," which is the Lord's Prayer of free market fundamentalists. Which Christian principles is this in line with, aside from "Render unto Caesar?" Which we are taught Jesus meant as a call to look beyond the cares of this world, and which FMFs hear as, "Make sure Caesar gets his."

Utterly delusional

Other than criticizing Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, who I have no love for, I have no idea what point you are making here.]
Of course you totally ignored my points about a Constitutional Republic, not capitalism, being most in line with Christian principles, as it does the best job of factoring in our sinful nature, and the tendency of governments to become tyrannical over time. Your radical leftist utopia would shred the Constitution to pieces, as it does away with private property and any free speech or association that it views as a threat to its stated goals.

I'm supposed to infer your whatever about a "Constitutional republic? Wake the fu ck up, Ashvin. We live in the real world. We don't live in a "constitutional republic" any more than we live in a democracy. There are plenty of cutouts for those with the money tpo retain lobbyists and lawmakers to enact them into law. We live in a full bore oligarchy barreling its way to fascism, with the enthusiastic assistance of useful idiots like you who carry water for the worst people on the planet.

As much as we can all admire the readiness with which you snap to your studied pose of bewilderment, the point, is that the near 40-year class war on working people was initiated and led by these patron saints of free-market fundamentalism.  Your complaint of lack of understanding is an attempt to mask your dishonesty. No sale, fucko.

I could go on, but attempting to keep the formatting straight in this reply is almost as annoying as trying to talk sense to an ideologue. Go waste someone else's time.



Excellent post, Surly. As usual, you elucidate your arguments with irrefutable facts that only the most ideologically compromised would stubbornly disagree with and attempt to discredit with disingenuous sophistry.

  Capitalist Christianity is, like "Cruel Kindness", an Oxymoron

Sophists always expose themselves, no matter how clever they are at twisting words.

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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #565 on: February 22, 2019, 06:43:32 pm »
Are you so imprisoned by your ideology that you can't recognize these blessings?

Of course there is no guarantee these blessings will last, and we need to work hard to keep them in place. If either the radical right or your radical leftist buddies get what they are after, a bunch of them go out the window and we are left with brutal tyranny and mass death. To pretend like that's what we already have takes a huge sh it on the people who are truly suffering under tyrannies around the world.

IOW,  Capitalism, i.e.  , is "superior" to "Socialism" because it provides more material "blessings" than "Socialism".

Ashvin, if you are right about that, then most people now subject to unending misery and privation due to ruthless exploitation under the more ideologically pure versions of Capitalism, unlike the hybrid version in Denmark where millions of small businesses operate quite successfully under high taxation and socialst based subsidized college and medicine and successful prisoner rehabilitation, are doomed to greater misery, not more "blessings". Over 2 billion people, right now on this overwhelmingly CAPITALIST planet Earth, are zinc deficient. That is a DIRECT result of the present economic system you so celebrate.

Quote
Zinc deficiency is characterized by growth retardation, loss of appetite, and impaired immune function. In more severe cases, zinc deficiency causes hair loss, diarrhea, delayed sexual maturation, impotence, hypogonadism in males, and eye and skin lesions [2,8,27,28]

That is just one of MANY downsides of Capitalism that you claim would be "worse" under Socialism.

Two Billion people is NOT a number you can stuff into the "human pecking order stuff happens" (see lobsters and Jordan Peterson) ideology that is intrinsic to the defense of the predictable high percentage of "losers" in the Capitalist system.

I will not argue this any further with you. If you are right, and Capitalism and Christianity are compatible and complementary, then I am not a Christian.

If you are wrong, then may God have mercy on your wicked soul.

Quote
Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts. -- Psalm 28:3
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 12:51:22 pm by AGelbert »
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Re: Money
« Reply #566 on: February 22, 2019, 08:45:37 pm »
The American 👹💵🎩🍌 Destruction of Venezuela - The Real Story
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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #567 on: February 24, 2019, 04:59:50 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: Commenter Rufus Temblor 👍 makes accurate observations in regard to Capitalist mumbo jumbo about inflation by the (PRIVATE) Federal "Reserve":

Quote
All the well-paid buffoons need rationalizations for keeping the punch bowl well stocked. The funny thing is how these very well educated people have no idea how biased and stupid they are.

In the related article by Mitch (A Libertarian  :P), he tears the Fed inflation rationale into tiny bits 👍. However, Mitch, being a Mises true believing Capitalist , misses the REAL CAPITALIST disingenuous motive behind the Fed's selective low balling of double digit annual inflation in things we ACTUALLY NEED TO BUY TO LIVE (i.e. the deliberate distortion of a reality based CPI), while selectively ignoring real estate and stock bubbles the Fed it totally guilty of inflating.

So, what is BASIC, as well as INTRINSIC, to the Fed's fun and games? It's the ideology, STUPID.

Capitalist ideology REQUIRES that the populace equate "VALUE" with pecuniary PRICE. Once most people are on board with that FALSE EQUIVALENCE, then you can control them by controlling WHERE you target the money supply. The rest is rinse and repeat exploitation to transfer wealth from the "unworthy poor and middle class", to the "worthy rich" (see lobsters and Jordan Peterson 😇 for a full explanation of "Stuff happens in God's evolutionarily determined human pecking order, so don't waste your time with concerns about inequality among humans"  ).

This totally unChristian world view is pushed (often, but certainly not limited to, by pseudo-christians 😈 with the "Christian" label who studiously ignore Paul the Apostle's words about EQUALITY among brethren) in order to so corrupt the public about the definition of "VALUE" in human civilization, that they become quite willing to accept as "normal" the ruthless commodification of human beings.

Spiritual development, a key part of which includes obeying God's commandment to treat your neighbor with the SAME dignity and respect as you treat yourself (long before Jesus Christ said "Love Thy Neighbor as Yourself", this commandment was part of ancient Scripture), is relegated to a "value" based on how "efficient" that "spirituality" is in helping you become a "better person" (i.e. PROSPER MORE IN MONEY!).

Capitalist Ideology has so brainwashed our civilization that the false equivalence between the amount of CAPITAL (i.e. material "blessings") a person has and his "VALUE" to society is endemic. 👎

BUT, it got worse after that! TPTB then began an Orwellian game of low balling the "value" of the basic items we all need to buy to live while simultaneously funneling as much counterfeit money to the stock and real estate bubbles as the "economy required".

This puts most of the populace in a state of cognitive dissonance (i.e. inability to challenge the status quo due to mental confusion and conflict produced by the experience of perceived reality versus government stated "reality") because of two mind twisting realities we see, which are studiously denied by the government and the CAPITALIST propaganda media outlets:

1. Our experience tells us that NO, those stocks are certailnly NOT worth that much, and NO, the value of real estate is certainly NOT as much as the "market" says. The average working person could buy a house for 2.5 times his annual income in 1970. I know. I was there. GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) even stated that was the way it should be in an accounting course I took in Business Administration back in 1974. NOW the SAME size house (i.e. total square feet) is "valued" at  more than SIX TIMES (and UP!) the annual income of the average working person.

2. Here's just one example of everyday stuff out there. True, fast food is not technically a "needed" item, and should probably be avoided like the plague. But, it is food, which IS a needed item that SHOULD be included accurately in the CPI. I present this as an example of inflation and hedonics Fed Capitalist THEFT. Our daily experience tells us that NO, a whopper, which was 39 cents in 1965 (I was there. I worked at Burger King while at Miami Dade Junior College), is NOT worth the $4.19 we are forced to pay for it now. Also, the whopper of 1965 was MORE of a whopper than it is now, so we have been gamed two ways there while the Fed plays hedonic mendacity games.

Yeah, you can go online and calculate inflation according to the U.S. Government . When you look at your income and when you look at your purchasing power, the disconnect that the Fed and the CPI gamers refuse to admit becomes evident.

People who have been CAPITALIST brainwashed to believe purchasing power is equivalent to self-worth begin to lose self esteem. Those who are 'greed is good' Capitalist "winners" pile on verbal abuse and condemnation on the alleged "useless eaters", thereby adding Capitalism inspired empathy deficit disordered insult to Capitalist exploitation injury. Suicide rates go up because of that. The vast majority of the public knows there is something desperately wrong but are told (see Voltaire) that we are living in the "God approved CAPITALIST best of all possible worlds" AND that any economic difficulties anyone has "is their own fault and they just need to work harder". .

It is a vicious lie. We are being ruthlessly exploited by representatives of a FAILED Economic system that has nothing left but to tell us to not believe the MASSIVE, SOUL WRENCHING INEQUALITY that we see and experience daily.

Quote
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. -- Luke 16:25

THE CAPITALISTS are the demonic bastards that have no VALUE, not the exploited poor and (shrinking) middle class subject to CAPITALIST pecuniary TYRANNY!

Mitch thinks owning gold is the answer. NOPE.

The answer is, and always has been, to PUNISH unethical behavior and REWARD ethical behavior. True, the Capitalists have tried to twist the definition of "ethical" by claiming that exploitative behavior 👹 that enriches a persion is "rational", thereby "justified" (i.e. at the end of the day it's "okay" = "ethical"). As I said before, they are quite Orwellian in there clever BULLSHIT pitch.

Of course, being mostly a doomer, I'm not holding my breath waiting for ethical behavior to triumph in this Capitalist trashed valley of tears. Many doomers. like those here who are ethical folks, but not Christians by religion, get all that about inflation and Fed ripoffs and the benefits of Socialism, but they then proceed to limit there ethical efforts to calorie counting survival (i.e. MATERIAL survival).

We need to properly eat, sleep, be clothed and housed to live, of course. That isn't enough.

Making material prosperity your priority in life guarantees stunted spiritual development and often no spiritual prosperity whatsoever.

Jesus Christ wasn't the first person to say that man does not live by bread alone. If you are in the trap of believing that physical needs and wants is the be all, end all of human existence, then CAPITALISTS have you right where they want you. You are DOOMED to equate "Value" with "Price". You are DOOMED to equate human biochemical requirements with the monetary PRICE you must pay to provide them. Don't be a sucker.

Proper Spiritual development is Sine Qua Non to a life well lived. Mitch does not realize that. I hope you eventually do.

Evidence of Proper spirtual Development is to treat your neighbor with the SAME dignity and respect as you treat yourself.

Capitalism is 100% AGAINST treating your neighbor with the SAME dignity and respect as you treat yourself. Anyone that claims otherwise is lying. All that psychological sleight of hand about pecking order "entitlement" for the "genetically gifted winners" and the "normal and acceptable" shaft for the high percentage of "losers" is just clever, but malicious, envy fueling propaganda to keep the suckers hooked on Capitalism.

Capitalism celebrates, encourages and teaches the "VALUE" of greed, period. Greed and ethical behavior are incompatible. Anyone that tells you that greed is "rational" is a spiritual pygmy. 




02/24/2019




Quote

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. -- Mathew 4:4 (KJV)



« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 06:27:26 pm by AGelbert »
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Re: Money
« Reply #568 on: February 25, 2019, 03:29:38 pm »
https://kurtnimmo.blog/2019/02/23/an-idiots-national-emergency/

An Idiot’s National Emergency

Kurt Nimmo
February 23, 2019



"The Real National Emergency Isn't At The Border. It's The National Debt!"

It’s not proper form to open a blog post by calling a sitting president an idiot who knows not what he talks or tweets about. Even so, the conclusion is inescapable.

President Donald Trump is an idiot, at least when it comes to navigating politics, but then this is basically de rigueur in America. As a nation, we know very little about the rest of the world or for that matter our own country, and that includes the real number of criminals, drug smugglers, human traffickers, and terrorists crossing the border.

I live in Las Cruces, New Mexico, less than fifty miles from the US-Mexico border. There is far less crime here than in Chicago, New York, and San Francisco (the liberal troika). I lived in Chicago in the late 1990s, and I can say the murder rate there at that time was far worse than anything happening along the border.

Alex Nowrasteh at the Cato Institute posted an article recently breaking down the numbers. It doesn’t look good for the president and his zombified MAGA supporters.

“First, the crime rate in the 23 counties along the U.S. border with Mexico is below that of counties in the United States that do not lie along the Mexican border,” Nowrasteh writes. “Violent and property crime rates are both slightly lower along the border, but the homicide rate along the border is a whopping 34 percent below the homicide rate in non-border counties. If the entire United States had a homicide rate as low as that along the border in 2017, then there would have been about 5,720 fewer homicides nationwide that year.”

He points out that illegal immigrants “apprehended along the border have a low criminal conviction rate… The most serious offense of ‘homicide, manslaughter’ accounted for 0.04 percent of all convictions of apprehended illegal immigrants from FY2015 through August 31, 2018.”

Nowrasteh points out “resident illegal immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated or convicted of crimes than native-born Americans. The estimated nationwide illegal immigrant incarceration rate in 2016 was 47 percent below that of native-born Americans, including those in immigration detention.

If dangerous drug smugglers, cartel assassins, gang members, and other violent individuals (including nonexistent terrorists) were in fact a serious issue, there would be scores of Border Patrol agents killed in the line of duty.

“Border Patrol agents are unlikely to be murdered while on the job. If there was a national emergency on the border, we should at least expect that that would be reflected in a murder rate of Border Patrol agents killed in the line of duty. From 2003 through the end of 2018, six Border Patrol agents were murdered on the job. All of those are tragic, but that amounts to a murder rate of about 2 per 100,000 agents per year during that time. That’s far below the national murder-rate of about 5.1 per 100,000 per year during the same time.”

Trump rants about gang violence, but as Cato notes “gang apprehensions by Border Patrol agents in the Fiscal Year 2018 (through August 31st), account for about 0.2 percent of all apprehensions.  One must take these statistics with a grain of salt, but there is no obvious large-scale crossing of gang members along the border.”

Trump’s claim about terrorists crossing the border is pure, unadulterated bunkum. “The perceived threat of terrorists crossing the border with Mexico has been a major justification for beefing up security, but there is little justification for it.  Those most worried about terrorists infiltrating along the border cannot point to any attack, any conviction for planning an attack, or any plot planned by an illegal immigrant who crossed the border with Mexico from 1975 through the end of 2017.”

In short, Trump’s justification for imposing a national emergency is based on hyperbole, similar to the exaggerations and lies told following the attacks of 9/11.

Constitutional attorney and author John W. Whitehead writes that Trump’s national emergency “is not about illegal immigration or porous borders or who will pay to build that wall. This is about unadulterated power and the rise of an ‘emergency state’ that justifies all manner of government tyranny in the so-called name of national security.”

He believes the “seeds of this present madness were sown more than a decade ago when George W. Bush stealthily issued two presidential directives that granted the president the power to unilaterally declare a national emergency.”

For Trump, the border wall is all about his legacy and his grossly overinflated ego. The border wall remains his number one issue, never mind it is a mirage in the desert that disappears when reality is factored in.

Trump built casinos and developed real estate, but when it comes to politics—and especially foreign policy—he is an ignoramus. Donald Trump is certainly unfit for the job. He will eventually be either voted or thrown out of office and the “swamp,” the “deep state” of insiders and corporate interests will find another smooth-talker like Obama to mollify an uninformed and ignorant public.

The real national emergency is an unsustainable national debt. This avalanche will ultimately bury the American people alive and make the largely imaginary situation on the border look like a fender-bender by way of comparison.

Finally, if Trump and his CFR-Goldman Sachs handlers really wanted to stop people crossing the border, they would forbid illegal immigrants from recieving welfare handouts and other goodies (including the unearned “right” to vote for Democrats).

Additionally, his administration—now replete with neocons like Bolton, Abrams, and Pompeo—will make the flight of Central Americans far worse.

They plan to take down both Venezuela and Nicaragua. The violence-wracked “Northern Triangle”—El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras—was made possible by US intervention in the region. The “civil wars” in El Salvador and Guatemala were fueled by the US. It organized and trained death squads and staged a coup in Guatemala. Honduras was destabilized by US support for the Contras. Reagan’s “freedom fighters” killed untold numbers in its effort to destroy the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.

It is entirely possible Trump knows virtually nothing about this, along with most of the rest of the country, which remains locked in a “civil war” of its own, artificially produced in classic Hegelian fashion to distract you from real issues—a national debt of crushing proportion and the scourge of wars engineered to never end and feed an obese military-industrial-surveillance complex.


Yep.

The US Dollar as of 2016:

IOW:

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Re: Money
« Reply #569 on: February 25, 2019, 08:06:56 pm »

Anti-Capitalist Chronicles: Does Socialism Affect Freedom?
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[S1 E6] Does Socialism Affect Freedom?

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