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Author Topic: Money  (Read 7068 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #465 on: November 25, 2018, 03:31:55 pm »

How Fraud Corrodes Weak Market Regulations Governed by Market Fundamentalism

November 24, 2018

Prof. Bill Black’s talk at the forum, “Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism,” held in Washington DC, on October 19, 2018



Series: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Ralph Nader: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Antitrust and How Kleptocracy Corrupts What Markets are Supposed to do Well

The Virtues and Limits of Markets

https://therealnews.com/stories/how-fraud-corrodes-weak-market-regulations-governed-by-market-fundamentalism
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #466 on: November 25, 2018, 03:38:28 pm »

Antitrust and How Kleptocracy Corrupts What Markets are Supposed to do Well

November 23, 2018

Bert Foer, Senior Fellow at the American Antitrust Institute speaks at the forum, “Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism,” held in Washington DC, on October 19, 2018


Series: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Ralph Nader: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Antitrust and How Kleptocracy Corrupts What Markets are Supposed to do Well

The Virtues and Limits of Markets

https://therealnews.com/stories/antitrust-and-how-kleptocracy-corrupts-what-markets-are-supposed-to-do-well
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #467 on: November 26, 2018, 07:31:54 pm »

Global Capitalism 😈👹💵🎩🍌🏴‍☠️🚩: The Economic Consequences of the Election - What Can We Expect? [November 2018]
43,051 views


Democracy At Work

Published on Nov 14, 2018

Thank you for supporting GCLEU on Patreon! Your support helps us compensate the staff and additional workers it takes to put event together. Thank you for being a part of the GCLEU team!

Wednesday,  November 14, 2018 at 7:30 PM

Co-sponsored by Democracy at Work, Left Forum, and Judson Memorial Church

The Economic Consequences of the Election - What Can We Expect?

In connection with Prof. Wolff’s discussion of the main topic above, he also covers the following issues:

1. Is another crash coming?

2. The economic and political lessons from young US socialists winning elections

3. The main, different meanings of “socialism” these days


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Category News & Politics
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #468 on: November 27, 2018, 07:28:00 pm »

Corporate Tax-Break Subsidies  : Boosting Monopolies , Fueling Inequality

November 25, 2018

Greg Leroy, Executive Director of Good jobs First, speaks at the forum, “Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism,” held in Washington DC, on October 19, 2018


Series: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Ralph Nader: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Antitrust and How Kleptocracy Corrupts What Markets are Supposed to do Well

The Virtues and Limits of Markets

https://therealnews.com/stories/antitrust-and-how-kleptocracy-corrupts-what-markets-are-supposed-to-do-well
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #469 on: November 28, 2018, 09:30:32 pm »
November 28, 2018

Systemic Corporate Crime: Business as Usual , Making Markets Irrelevant 🤬


Russell Mokhiber, the editor of the Corporate Crime Reporter, speaks at the forum, “Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism,” held in Washington DC, on October 19, 2018


Series: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Ralph Nader: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Antitrust and How Kleptocracy Corrupts What Markets are Supposed to do Well

The Virtues and Limits of Markets

https://therealnews.com/stories/systemic-corporate-crime-business-as-usual-making-markets-irrelevant
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #470 on: November 29, 2018, 11:06:56 am »
Selected Quotes From Proverbs 16 King James Version (KJV):

Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.

Better is a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.


Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #471 on: November 29, 2018, 01:13:45 pm »
Keep Monitoring World Shipping Activity to KNOW When the Collapse Begins

November 29, 2018




A fresh new look for the Live Map

November saw us release an update for the Live Map, simplifying navigation, and making sure you can access more without having to scroll down the page.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-67.0/



Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #472 on: November 29, 2018, 07:55:05 pm »
Keep Monitoring World Shipping Activity to KNOW When the Collapse Begins




A fresh new look for the Live Map

November saw us release an update for the Live Map, simplifying navigation, and making sure you can access more without having to scroll down the page.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-67.0/

Hey AG, good to see you!

A lot of merit in this. Any insights you'd like to share?

🤔 Well, I just think that the TELL that a collapse is actually in progress is a massive drop in shipping traffic. The corollary to that bit of 2 minus 2 = 0 reality based logic is, of course, that there is no collapse going on as long as the ships are doing their thing.

The  web site 👍 shows live traffic. It's rather difficult for any collapse-nick to argue that a collapse is going on as long as hundreds of huge ships are going hither and yon daily. Let's just say I like this reality check. I am certain that a massive collapse of civilization is NOT avoidable. It is literally BAKED IN, if ya know what I mean.

That said, it is clear that the collapse is not happening as of this month. FWIW, I think you will see evidence of a collapse in the shipping activity 🧐  long before you see it in the reality challenged world of stock market bubblenomics.


WSJ    Opinion 😈 Page Thinks Hundreds Of Billions Of Dollars of Climate Damages Are “Affordable”


Spoken like people who expect to never have to pay them.

Yep. Here's a related topic that evidences the CLEAR LINK between Capitalism and Criminal Behavior, whether the subject is Ethically Bankrupt Profit Over People or Ethically Bankrupt Profit Over Planet.


Economic Update: Why Capitalism   Demonizes Government

21,374 views



Democracy At Work

Published on Nov 26, 2018

Economic Update: [S8 E22] Why Capitalism   Demonizes Government

THIS WEEK'S TOPICS (w/timestamps):
00:56 - Updates on UK war on "Unexplained Wealth;"
07:04 - why capitalism needs yet attacks government;
11:02 - historical reality of low wages in US;
13:59 - cozy deals between big corporations and credit rating agencies again; 
14:47 - announcements;
15:29 - SPECIAL TOPIC: Major discussions of capitalism's oscillations between nationalist and internationalist phases (are we now moving backwards to nationalism again?) and once more on the inefficiency and immorality of markets as a mechanism of distribution.
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #473 on: December 01, 2018, 03:50:56 pm »
GM's Layoffs Made Possible by Weak Unions, Automatization, and Bad Priorities


TheRealNews

Published on Nov 29, 2018

Prof. Leo Panitch and former auto worker Frank Hammer discuss how the GM's 14,000 layoffs in Canada and the US are made possible by the weakening of unions, outsourcing, and misdirected production priorities

Visit https://therealnews.com for more stories and help support our work by donating at https://therealnews.com/donate.
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #474 on: December 03, 2018, 09:55:50 pm »
Market Fundamentalism and Trade

December 3, 2018

Lori Wallach, Director of Public Citizen’s Global Trade Watch, speaks at the forum, “Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism,” held in Washington DC, on October 19, 2018


Series: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Ralph Nader: Destroying the Myths of Market Fundamentalism

Antitrust and How Kleptocracy Corrupts What Markets are Supposed to do Well

The Virtues and Limits of Markets

https://therealnews.com/stories/market-fundamentalism-and-trade
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #475 on: December 03, 2018, 09:57:34 pm »
Globalization, Inequality & the Predictable Corporate Takeover of the WTO (1/2)

December 3, 2018

The corporate takeover of platforms like the World Trade Organization has been denounced by developing countries and activists for decades and today the denunciations are reflected in rebuttals to pro-corporate machinations like those unpacked in this series of presentations at the 2018 World Trade Organization Public Forum


Series: Our World Is Not For Sale: 2018 World Trade Organization Public Forum (2/2)


Story Transcript

LYNN FRIES: It’s The Real News, I’m Lynn Fries.

Breaking through what by nature is a complex specialized topic, a message for citizens worldwide came across loud and clear this October as representatives from South Africa’s Permanent Mission to the World Trade Organization here in Geneva and Third World Network Nepal, UNCTAD’s division on globalization and development strategies and the South North Development Monitor took the floor at the Our World is Not For Sale working session at the 2018 World Trade Organization Public Forum. That session, called The Crisis in Multilateralism, laid out a longstanding track record at the World Trade Organization, where at the behest of the world’s most powerful and wealthiest nations and corporations, the public interest at this public institution has been circumvented, and instead the WTO has been turned into a global platform that’s facilitating a vicious circle where wealth and power beget more wealth and power and an ever expanding inequality between and within countries.

The Real News releases exclusive, full length documentary footage of that working session in part two of this series. Here in part one, we present featured clips, opening with comments by Deborah James, a representative for the Center for Economic and Policy Research and the Our World Is Not For Sale network.

DEBORAH JAMES: We should debate what are the sources of poverty reduction in the world, that which is happening and that which is not happening. And now we’re seeing the negative impacts of globalization in high income countries such as mine, the United States, and this has in recent years contributed to political upheaval. But that globalization has been defended as if it were a great boost to millions of people throughout the world. So if we understand that this type of globalization has not benefited the majority of people in developing countries and we understand that now there’s a huge populist revolt because that same globalization model has not benefited the vast majority of people even in the developed countries. But at the same time, there’s been a huge increase in wealth creation and a huge increase in trade and investment flows. Where’s all the money going?

Well, it turns out that we have the answer in this year’s Trade and Development Report. It’s going to the top one percent of superstar vampire corporations who are sucking even more wealth out of the vast majority of people around the world in the Global North and the Global South and everywhere in between. And we would say that this corporate takeover is the predictable result of these firms using their wealth to intervene in the economy, to rewrite the rules through the WTO and also through bilateral and regional trade agreements, and through electing austerity-focused national governments.

VAHINI NAIDU: We all know that the benefits and costs of trade liberalization have not been shared equitably. Citizens are increasingly aware that the safety nets needed for trade adjustment are inadequate and that job losses in declining sectors are rarely compensated by growth in others. Job insecurity is on the rise. We need to fully acknowledge the role of trade in the state of affairs and not shy away from assessing the extent to which trade and trade agreements have contributed to growing inequality across the world. A measure of equity in the multilateral trading system will be the extent to which it facilitates Africa’s structural transformation and industrialization for sustainable and sustained development. For legitimacy and sustainability, these concerns need to be addressed. In this respect, we can recall the full range of the so-called implementation issues, advanced by developing countries, that was integral to the negotiating agenda in the Doha Development Round.

PRERNA BOMZAN: I would like to start by giving a brief introduction regarding the UN defined Least Developed Countries. So this category was established in 1971 by the UN General Assembly, obviously to draw special attention to these countries for more development attention. At that time, there were the only 23 LDCs, but today there are 47 LDCs. So that clearly shows that there is a major problem in the development paradigm that we are chasing. And out of the 47, 46 are WTO members. So I was checking the report of the Subcommittee on LDCs of last year, October 2017, and there it says that the LDCs’ share of world merchandise exports, it remains under one percent and its share in world exports of goods and commercial services, it stood at .91 percent in 2016. And the LDCs, they continue to record a sizable trade deficit, which reached 9.9 billion U.S. dollars in 2016, which represents a nine fold increase compared to the trade deficit in 2005, a decade back.

Right now, in the Doha rounds, the LDC package which we talk about, that is duty free, quota free market access, the rules of origin and the services waiver, that we think as the development aspect of the Doha round. And we’ve been consistently calling for the early harvest of the LDC package, but right now there hasn’t been any movement in the negotiations.

RICHARD KOZUL-WRIGHT: And by hyper-globalization, we basically see three distinct features from the earlier period of globalization from the end of the Second World War. Clearly, there’s an ideological component with the rise of neoliberalism as the dominant economic narrative. Neoliberalism, though, is not simply about more markets. That’s a very basic kind of philosophical failure in a lot of the discussion of neoliberalism. Neoliberalism is fundamentally about creating a set of rules that allow business to do what it wants, how it wants, where it wants, unencumbered by the actions of governments and other potentially distortionary elements, democracy, trade unions, other things that might get in the way of business doing what it wants, how it wants, where it wants.

And because people like, particularly neoliberals who haven’t read him, like to go back to Adam Smith at this point as a kind of father figure of the neoliberal tradition, which he wasn’t, of course, and Smith had two very important insights about what we would call a rules-based system. Smith recognized, particularly in The Theory of Moral Sentiments, that a rules-based system didn’t just depend on the details of the rules themselves, but the trust that people had in those rules and whether people trusted both the rules and the execution of those rules, that was a key feature of Smith’s understanding of a healthy political economy. And one of the things that we track, particularly since the financial crisis although there were signs of it before of course, was the removal of trust from political systems both at the national level, but I think also the international level, too.

At the national level it’s pretty obvious why this has happened. The response to the financial crisis was, essentially, how do we save the banks. And we saved the banks both by handing out very large amounts of taxpayers’ money, which is how the banking system survived and recovered after the crisis, and then shifting the burden of the consequences of that action onto the vast majority of people through policies of economic austerity. And that combination of saving the institutions that caused the problems in the first instance and then shifting the burden onto your average citizen has clearly removed most people’s sense of trust in the institutions ultimately whose job it is to provide for the welfare of its citizenry.

RAVI KANTH: For the past 20 years, I have been covering every development that has been happening in this organization on a daily basis for several publications. So I’m just going to reflect about the processes that take place here which you don’t hear in these public forum discussions. I’ll start off with a small statement, namely just to indicate what this organization is all about. Here is the Director General, who when he came power sometime in September 2013, from that period, September to December 2013, he worked tirelessly on an issue called the Trade Facilitation Agreement. In fact, this hall used to be filled with the Trade Facilitation negotiators. He worked so hard for the next three months on an issue which was not a core issue of the Doha Work Program. This was one of the most controversial issues.

In fact, before he began the Director General, he was Brazil’s trade ambassador to the WTO. In one of the Trade Negotiations Committee meetings, he had actually said that the Trade Facilitation Agreement is a market access agreement and that countries like Brazil are not getting any commensurate return for what they are going to agree to in trade facilitation. That was the man who later became the Director General, and who worked hard to get this trade facilitation agreement while completely ignoring the real issues of the Doha Development Agenda, whether it’s the agriculture or implementation issues or special and differential treatment improvements, or for that matter, the LDC package.

I mean, ultimately, the face of this organization is sort of tested and measured on what it could do to the poorest of the poor countries. And the LDC package has been laying heavy on this organization since 2005 Hong Kong Ministerial Declaration in Hong Kong. There are different stages, but suffice to conclude here, the Director General who worked on the trade facilitation agreement because it was an agreement sought most by the United States and the European Union and several other countries, of what are called the Colorado Group. The Colorado Group was formed in 1996, and he was the man who has ignored the developmental issues which his own country had brought into full play starting from 2003. This exposes the kind happenings here. This organization, I’m convinced from my writings and from my day to day reports, it does not work for the developing countries, it does not work for the poorest countries, and if at all it works, it works at the diktats of the big boys.

DEBORAH JAMES: I hope that this session, even though I’m sorry that we didn’t have time for questions and discussion, has provided some more serious thought and more serious reflection about the deeper issues that are underlying the current crisis in the multilateral trading system, so that we can actually talk about solutions that will work for people and the planet and not just continue to entrench corporate interests in the WTO and other multilateral spaces.

https://therealnews.com/stories/globalization-inequality-the-predictable-corporate-takeover-of-the-wto-1-2

Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #476 on: December 04, 2018, 04:26:12 pm »
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #477 on: December 04, 2018, 05:43:21 pm »
The CAPITALIST Happy Talk (BS) we are presently cursed with is over 500 YEARS OLD! 🤬

SNIPPET:

In 1508 Emperor Maximilian I attempted to force his bankers to invest in bonds to support another of his wars. Fugger was furious at this, and wrote a letter back to the Emperor. Steinmetz explains:

Quote
Fugger started with what he said was obvious. Companies like his benefitted every level of society, producing jobs and wealth for all. Business could only work its magic if the government left it alone. If politicians threw up roadblocks and killed the profit motive, business had no chance. Merchants and bankers were good citizens, he argued. They treated each other and their customers fairly. Sure, self-interest propelled them.  But they knew better than to cheat customers. Reputation was everything and the need for credibility checked the urge to lie, gouge and steal. Hinting at the allure of tax havens (the Swiss border was only sixty miles away), he declared that other countries show businessmen more respect.  He blasted those who condemned commerce and enterprise. They failed to understand that “it is for the common good that honourable, brave and honest companies are in the realm. For it is not disreputable but rather it is wonderful jewel that such companies are in the kingdom.” 
It is no surprise that when the German Peasants’ War broke out in 1524, that wealthy men like Jakob Fugger were accused by the people of corruption and stealing from the poor. At one point during that year Jakob had to flee his home in Augsburg because of the threats from protestors. Fugger did all that he could to support the nobles trying to put down the revolt, which would only end after 100,000 people were dead.

Read a LOT more and feast your eyes on some videos about the
richest man that ever lived and his Castle with fountains, ovens and fireplaces in EVERY ROOM 👀


at a time when most people NEVER got enough to eat in their ENTIRE LIVES.  The influence 😈👹💵🎩🍌🏴‍☠️🚩 of this Oligarch and his CAPITALIST CHEERLEADING descendents to fund war and social repression continues to this day.


It was long after his time, of course, that Capitalism began to demonize Socialism with, oh so clever baloney like, "The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" (credited to Margaret Thatcher 😈, but considering she was every bit as dumb as she was greedy, Reagan was probably the one who passed that on to her from a note Saint Milton Chicago School Fascist Friedman 👹 gave to Reagan 🐒).

Then there's that one Reagan liked about, "I'm here from the Government. I'm here to help.", delivered in his most professional actor sarcasm.

Ya know, these bastards seem to have studied Owellian discourse before Orwell invented it!

As far back as 1508, it was crystal clear to the casual observer that, THE TROUBLE WITH CAPITALISM IS  THAT YOU EVENTUALLY RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. At that point you have to kill off a bunch of angry peasants who are starving or start a war (which you make peasants fight, of course) to find new sources of asset stripping plunder to put a bandaid on the cratering economy you destroyed with CAPITALISM.

Eventually you run out of people to kill and sources of EVERYTHING out there on the PLANET, that is plunderable, to plunder.

It's hard to fit all that in a sound bite but ya get the idea.

As to Reagan's favorte bit of clever BULLSHIT, it applies now quite well to the FIRE sector.

I'm here from the F.I.R.E. (Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate) sector . I'm here to help.

I just read this yesterday. It really gets to the heart of why people fall for all this Capitalist BULLSHIT. For the average person, it is hard to differentiate between socially beneficial freedoms and socially detrimental ones. The Capitalist CROOKS make sure to muddy the difference as much as possible with happy talk propaganda. This snippet from a recent Chris Hedges article pretty much exposes the CAPITALIST siren song CON.

Quote
The economist Karl Polanyi understood that there are two kinds of freedoms. There are the bad freedoms to exploit those around us and extract huge profits without regard to the common good, including what is done to the ecosystem and democratic institutions.

These bad freedoms see corporations monopolize technologies and scientific advances to make huge profits, even when, as with the pharmaceutical industry, a monopoly means lives of those who cannot pay exorbitant prices are put in jeopardy.

The good freedoms—freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, freedom of meeting, freedom of association, freedom to choose one’s job—
are eventually snuffed out by the primacy of the bad freedoms.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 08:24:08 pm by AGelbert »
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #478 on: December 04, 2018, 06:57:13 pm »
The problems with socialism are many. Orwell recognized very quickly that the socialists of his day were motivated by intellectual snobbery and resentment rather than compassion for the poor working class. 60 years later and nothing has changed...

Socialist ideology ignores human nature and treats everyone as "blank slates" who can be molded by the totalitarian state to achieve equality of socioeconomic outcomes. They set up re-education and re-training camps which are doomed to failure. This flies in the face of decades of psychological and sociological research.

Postmodern ideology tries to sneak in thoroughly debunked socialist ideology by pointing out the corrupt aspects of capitalist institutions, and then pretending that there is no other conclusion to reach other than ALL capitalist hierarchies are corrupted by power. And as long as we are playing this game, why not advocate for the socialist power hierarchies instead of the capitalist ones?

Among the numerous facts they ignore is that intelligence and trait conscientiousness account for some 25-40% of long-term life outcomes in capitalist society. This does not fit in with their ideological critiques, because it suggests that competence actually plays a role. But everyone knows competence plays a large role, and that makes them even more resentful and envious of the successful. To the point where they are willing to advocate for bloody revolutions and extermination campaigns as a justified means of "leveling the playing field".

What about the word "Quit" do you not understand?

RE


 

The problems with socialism are many. Orwell recognized very quickly that the socialists of his day were motivated by intellectual snobbery and resentment rather than compassion for the poor working class. 60 years later and nothing has changed...

Socialist ideology ignores human nature and treats everyone as "blank slates" who can be molded by the totalitarian state to achieve equality of socioeconomic outcomes. They set up re-education and re-training camps which are doomed to failure. This flies in the face of decades of psychological and sociological research.

Postmodern ideology tries to sneak in thoroughly debunked socialist ideology by pointing out the corrupt aspects of capitalist institutions, and then pretending that there is no other conclusion to reach other than ALL capitalist hierarchies are corrupted by power. And as long as we are playing this game, why not advocate for the socialist power hierarchies instead of the capitalist ones?

Among the numerous facts they ignore is that intelligence and trait conscientiousness account for some 25-40% of long-term life outcomes in capitalist society. This does not fit in with their ideological critiques, because it suggests that competence actually plays a role. But everyone knows competence plays a large role, and that makes them even more resentful and envious of the successful. To the point where they are willing to advocate for bloody revolutions and extermination campaigns as a justified means of "leveling the playing field".

What a pile of crap, false assertions, straw men and charged language. You certainly know how to wield language as a weapon, but you're not selling anything here.

And for the record, no one here is "playing a game" but you.

How well I remember the stories told by my father and uncles about the gulags and re-education camps they suffered under FDR.


Be sure to post the URL of your new blog, celebrating this, the best of all possible worlds.

 

The trouble with Ashvin, quite the egregious example of sophistry, intellectual snobbery and smugness himself, is that he cannot get past the "PECKING ORDER IS IT" (i.e. SOCIAL DARWINIST) IDEOLOGY. If he had an ounce of integrity, instead of deliberately twisting (in typical CAPITALIST ORWELLIAN DISCOURSE FASHION) what Orwell said and wrote, he would RECOGNIZE that that CAPITALISM and the Soviet (and Cuban) STATE CAPITALISM are tweedledee and tweedledum (i.e. OWNER-BOSS/EMPLOYEE-WORKER IS THE SAME CORRUPT SYSTEM AS COMMISAR-BOSS/COMRAD-WORKER).

TRUE SOCIALISM IS EGALITARIAN. Ashvin, like all CAPITALISTS, does not DO egalitarian. SO, he TWISTS the definition of Socialism in order to demonize it with negative attributes about Socialists that are, in fact, INTEGRAL to the CAPITALIST mindset.

Any elitist PECKING ORDER BULLSHIT introduced in a SOCIALIST SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT instantly undermines everything that SOCIALISM stands for!   

What REALLY torques me about the alleged "Christian" beliefs of Ashvin is that he pretends the Acts of the Apostles, the early history of the Christian Church, which was TOTALLY SOCIALIST at the time, was subject to the same PECKING ORDER BULLSHIT IDEOLOGY that he embraces without batting a sophist eye.

Christ made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that the leaders were exemplified by the FACT that they had SERVED/WORKED MORE FOR OTHERS than the non-leaders.

This is anathema to the Social Darwinsts, who justify absolutely ANY plunder and mayhem resulting from CAPITALISM as the "natural order of 'DESERVING' smart over the 'LESS DESERVING' less smart".

Christ excludes ANYONE with this BRUTAL, EMPATHY DEFICIT DISORDERED, CRUEL IDEOLOGY from His Kingdom, PERIOD, FULL STOP.

I would now bring up the lobsters and sex hormones devious analogy but I might get bullied by a certain admin again. SO, I won't.


One more thing because I see Ashvin is at it again with the  Soviet Gulags and such in his zeal to demonize Soviet "Socialism".  ::) WHAT PART OF "THE SOVIET UNION WAS STATE CAPITALISM" do you not understand, Mr. SOPHIST?
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: Money
« Reply #479 on: December 05, 2018, 03:21:00 pm »
Let's all jump on Ashvin time, huh?

Among the numerous facts they ignore is that intelligence and trait conscientiousness account for some 25-40% of long-term life outcomes in capitalist society. This does not fit in with their ideological critiques, because it suggests that competence actually plays a role. But everyone knows competence plays a large role, and that makes them even more resentful and envious of the successful. To the point where they are willing to advocate for bloody revolutions and extermination campaigns as a justified means of "leveling the playing field".


Trouble is......Ashvin is 100% right on that part, and the rest of you are so caught up in your own belief systems that it doesn't matter whether he is or not. That bothers me a lot. Not whether he's right or wrong, but that the rest of your are willing to gang up and play this kind of bullshit dirty pool. It's completely unfair.

And I'm going to say that, and I challenge anyone here to offer any actual facts to the contrary to what I just quoted..

Go ahead, and big fancy caps and emoticons don't count. Just facts. Prove your points, and stop just bashing.


Provided you can keep your bullying to a low roar, I will answer with facts and without without caps and without emoticons.

First of all, your finger pointing claim that, in so many words, ideology "taints" the objectivity of anyone criticizing Ashvin, is based on your ideology. So, your claim that "Ashvin is 100% right" is nothing but an opinion based on your Social Darwinst world view; a world view that you share with Ashvin. So, your claim that readers here are unjustly jumping on Ashvin, just like GO's rush to agree, is also a reflection of your ideology, not facts.

WHAT PART OF "THE SOVIET UNION WAS STATE CAPITALISM" do you not understand, Mr. SOPHIST?

Watson only understands that which Watson shits off his keyboard.  Often enough he doesn't even understand that.  He's full of self-hatred, so he trolls this website to hate on others.  He wants to be part of the ruling elite in this country, so he gave up his birth religion to become a fake Joel Osteen style Christian and join the ranks of the Christian Right Wing Fascists.  He has an extreme case of tunnel vision and writes on only one topic, his hatred for socialism.  I let him stay on because with each post he reveals what a hypocrite he is, and because he is trying to goad me into banning him.  He's so obsessed he can't even follow through and quit posting.  It's pathetic.

RE


RE pretty much covered Ashvin's flawed outlook on human society, so I won't belabor that point, though I realize you vigorously disagree with RE and Surly in that regard. It is a fact that you disagree. It is not a fact that your opinion is fact based. It is a fact that your opinion is ideology based.

You can accuse me, as you have often, of being "blinded" by my ideology (that's when you are in a good mood. At other times you claim I am allegedly at war with the world and hate filled, etc.). You may be right, but that doesn't solve the issue of what is a reality based opinion and what is not, now does it?

Second, the definition of Soviet "Socialism" is State Capitalism, as the Anarchists note, because the boss/employee relationship was not changed from that handed off to Capitalism by the feudal lord/peasant relationship, which came from the owner/slave relationship, all of which are incompatible with true socialism, which is egalitarian. As of right now, your ideology prevents you from agreeing with this second point, even though it is factual.

Ashvin went at me with an accusation that I am somehow hiding something because I don't want to define myself as a "Marxist" or "Socialist". Ashvin's definition of those terms is a convenient aberration of what socialism actually is, just like yours is. If I say I am a Socialist, which I certainly am, you and Ashvin could, and probably would, claim I am a hypocrite because I started a corporation (3M Franchise) selling reflective window film at the age of 23, taught people to fly for money, controlled air traffic for money working for the US empire, and so on.

Yep, I have survived in a system I did not create. Yep, I have learned a thing or two along the way. But, trying to finger me as a "hypocrite" has absolutely nothing to do with the basic Socialist tenet of a 100% requirement for an egalitarian relationship among all the society working for the common good of all in that society. This altruistic tenet is sine qua non to Socialism. That means that the closest thing to actual socialism that has ever been tried is what, imperfectly, but it was close, controlled distribution of labor and goods for the common good during the Early Christian Church.

Ashvin claims that "Socialism" and "Capitalism" were not even defined at the time, so my claim is "nonsensical". Lawyers have a thing about definitions, too often ignoring the reality of human relations that go back millenia, where any and all economic systems that were not "defined" as such back then were, nevertheless, in limited, but factual, operation. Here's some factual information on Christian Socialism:

Quote
The most important quote[citation needed] of the Old Testament that has been recognized by Christian socialists is the verse from Ecclesiastes 3:13 that describes God as promoting an egalitarian society, stating:

It is God's gift to humankind that everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure in all their toil— (Ecc. 3: 13).[9]

New Testament

— (Jam. 5:1–6).[13]
During the New Testament period and beyond there is evidence that many Christian communities practiced forms of sharing, redistribution and communism.[14]

Church Fathers age


Basil of Caesarea (c. 330–379), the Father of the Eastern monks who became Bishop of Caesarea, established a complex around the church and monastery that included hostels, almshouses, and hospitals for infectious diseases.[15] During the great famine of 368, Basil denounced against profiteers and the indifferent rich.[15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism

Another thing on this second point: Five hundred years ago, Martin Luther (who's "saved by grace" interpretation of Paul's writings - now twisted by Calvinist Antinomians like Ashvin, a Catholic at the time, called out the Catholic Pope for the disingenuous, greed based, happy talk on indulgences. Luther was not a happy camper with Herr Jugger's Capitalist MO. Luther railed at Jugger for his excessive greed because it was totally at odds with the Christian Gospel. But it gets better.  Jugger was the person that convinced the Pope to charge interest on loans, something the Catholic Church had considerd sinful up until Jugger, who had loaned quite a bit of money to the Pope, convinced the Pope to revise his views.

Then it got even better. Jugger was in the indulgences racket up to his greedy Capitalist neck. The indulgence money that was paid for "guaranteed" salvation was collected by the "good graces" of Herr Jugger. So, the Catholic Church got half and, of course, Jugger got the other half. If that is not Capitalism, I do not know what is.

Way back in 1508, the Capitalist Happy Talk Propaganda by Mr. Jugger, still in evidence today, is evidence that Capitalism was functioning exactly as it is today. So, whether it was "defined" or not, is irrelevant. It was there. Here's the quote from Herr Jugger without annoying emoticons. I defy you to find any difference with what he says 500 years ago with what Capitalists defend with every lying breath today:

In 1508 Emperor Maximilian I attempted to force his bankers to invest in bonds to support another of his wars. Fugger was furious at this, and wrote a letter back to the Emperor. Steinmetz explains:

Quote
Fugger started with what he said was obvious. Companies like his benefitted every level of society, producing jobs and wealth for all. Business could only work its magic if the government left it alone. If politicians threw up roadblocks and killed the profit motive, business had no chance. Merchants and bankers were good citizens, he argued. They treated each other and their customers fairly. Sure, self-interest propelled them. But they knew better than to cheat customers. Reputation was everything and the need for credibility checked the urge to lie, gouge and steal. Hinting at the allure of tax havens (the Swiss border was only sixty miles away), he declared that other countries show businessmen more respect. He blasted those who condemned commerce and enterprise. They failed to understand that “it is for the common good that honourable, brave and honest companies are in the realm.  For it is not disreputable but rather it is wonderful jewel that such companies are in the kingdom.”

It is no surprise that when the German Peasants’ War broke out in 1524, that wealthy men like Jakob Fugger were accused by the people of corruption and stealing from the poor. At one point during that year Jakob had to flee his home in Augsburg because of the threats from protestors. Fugger did all that he could to support the nobles trying to put down the revolt, which would only end after 100,000 people were dead. http://www.medievalists.net/2018/12/richest-person-history/

Third, the (disingenuous) purist argument, which MKing often used on me because of my Camry, as a basis for claiming I am a hypocrite about Renewable Energy, is analogous to what Ashvin is trying to pull on me and anyone that survives in a Capitalist economic system. It is, as I said in another post, par for the course with people stuck on the flawed ideology of Social Darwinsm as applied to economic systems. I can not convince you that greed is bad because you are convinced that any action to obtain a privileged economic position over fellow humans is "justified" by a combination of your superior intelligence, ability and aggressiveness.

Socialism in general, and Christian Socialism in particular, inverts that seeking of privilege and position through whatever it takes (i.e. Social Darwinist pecking order ideology). Altruism is the main thing to seek in Socialism. As soon as any alleged "Socialist" system is corrupted by the seeking of privilege, it becomes a Capitalist system. Again, to Social Darwinsts, seeking of privilege and position is the only "reality based" system there is. A system (i.e. Socialism) where the reward for hard work based on intelligence, dedication, ability and grit is a viable biosphere, a healthy population, and a horizontal altruistic relationships between those who govern and those who provide goods and services is "not realistic".

Not only do I firmly believe, from having observed my behavior and that of my fellow humans for the past 72 years, that Socialism is the ideal economic system, if we do not switch to it very, very soon, humans will not be around much longer.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 04:43:41 pm by AGelbert »
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

 

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