Renewable Revolution

JD,
I researched the Chinese maps. Unlike Piri Reis, the dates cannot be authenticated. Consequently, they cannot be used as evidence of Chinese pre-European discovery of the Americas.  :emthdown:

UB said,

Agelbert, thanks for the time taken producing the above posts, kindly cue the cat in the labcoat, it needs to be my new signature.

The cat in the lab coat?
 

You mean THIS ONE?


WHOOPS! That's the one that comes later.... 
 

You are welcome.

I hear what you say about Antarctica and Piri Reis. But you have to look closely at Cape Horn (in the right twist distortion) versus the location of the Malvinas on the Piri Reis map. That is BIG deal. WHY? Because Cape Horn looks like the stretched, flattened Antarctic coast that a modern map like the one below shows.



Now check out the other map that shows what the world looked like before the ice melted 16000 years ago. It is quite interesting that the South American tip begins to swing RIGHT as the ocean level gets shallower.



Does that mean Piri Reis data down there was that old? I don't think so BECAUSE the Malvinas would be bigger.


 They aren't bigger than when they got officially mapped by some Dutch dude in 1524 or so. Nevertheless, I agree the Dutch were not letting on what they knew (the Dutch have a historical HATRED for Spaniards). I'll dig up that Dutch 1524 map if you like. Here's a modern close up map of the area:


At any rate, Piri Reis and the Dutch were probably NOT pals either. My hypothesis is that the ancient knowledge came from the middle east. I've got some leads but no proof. So, for now, I am simply TOTALLY convinced that Europeans did not make Piri Reis.


Ashvin,  Let me get his straight. You think that JESUS CHRIST was referring to a LOCAL flood when he was discussing Noah and the Ark?

Do you want the Gospels in Greek (as supposedly they were originally written in) and the old testament in Aramaic, Hebrew and whatever to accept that JESUS was raised in the JEWISH faith and read and believed the Scriptures that do not say BEANS about the flood and Noah being allegorical, a parable, some children's scary story or a warning? Your NON-answer is absolutely BREATHTAKING!

Let's take it from the top. Jesus Christ is GOD, right? He comes into this world in the flesh and His knowledge gets downgraded (according to the New Testament). He did not have the FULL PICTURE that GOD has. The specific passage is where it says he GREW in KNOWLEDGE.

God does NOT need to do that. But J.C. needed to do that because he was part Homo SAP. The point is that he LEARNED and BELIEVED the Pentateuch, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Judges, Chronicles, Samuel I and II and so on. He was a smart guy, RIGHT? He probably had a photographic memory, RIGHT? Of course! He may have been human but here is no question that He was a GENIUS when He walked the earth.

You and I have taken pains trying to explain to RE and others that J.C. was NOT ACTING in a play. That is why he had his data base Homo SAP sized when He came here. Otherwise it would have been just theater. He HAD to feel DOUBT about who He was/is or he was doing theater.

But maybe you have never wanted to delve into the divinity/humanity mix all that much. Fine. Me neither. I just KNOW the Gospel says He LEARNED and He INCREASED in KNOWLEDGE. There is no way to dance around that fact. And I don't believe you want to so I will assume you agree that J.C. learned his Scriptures like a good Jewish boy.

Fast forward to Mathew 24:37-39. Here the overall context is His RETURN when He won't be Mr. Nice Guy. He is using a historical reference (Noah, the ark and the flood that drowned every non-aquatic creature on EARTH, according to the scripture (the date it happened is not the issue, Ashvin - it's WHETHER it happened or not on a global scale that IS the issue AND the reason I said anybody claiming J.C. did not believe in global flood is mistaken.).

 J.C. is predicting what some Homo SAP civilizational conditions will be when He RETURNS. It's a prophecy. It's a rather IMPORTANT prophecy, is it not? Do you HONESTLY think Jesus Christ  would use a LOCAL FLOOD (where Noah and family got warned and survived while the bad people in a limited area drown)  comparison to HIS RETURN to JUDGE the EARTH?

Do you think He was planning to drop in on the same area as that LOCAL FLOOD and to hell with the rest of the planet?

Perhaps I am not understanding you, Ashvin. Would you please clarify your position on Noah and the extent of the flood? GO was kind enough to state right out that he thought it was a parable. He considered it a myth. He may still consider it a myth but he promises to ponder the issue. There is an honest response. Is that your opinion too?

And by the way, I'm surprised you did not immediately point out to GO that "image and likeness" of God has absolutely nothing to do with our biology and everything to do with our spirit. Or do YOU labor under the erroneous view that our bodies are what was made in the "image and likeness" of God too?

Back to Jesus Christ, we have enough trouble in forums like this to get people to believe Jesus Christ Himself came even the FIRST TIME, never mind returning! Look at all the hoops you jumped through when that article about J.C. being a myth was dropped here by Da godfader for fun and jollies over a year ago. I was so disgusted with it I could not bring myself even to comment on it. I am indebted to you for fighting the good fight then.

But now I'm very unsatisfied with your response about J.C. and Matthew 24:37-39. J.C. was not whistling Dixie, to put it mildly. He was talking about the most important event in Church Prophetic Teaching History. You CANNOT just gloss over that and concentrate on the cross, salvation and leave it at that. The Early Church got through those awful times with help from the Holy Spirit, sure. But the HOPE of His RETURN was one of the main forces in keeping the early Christians united.

That biblical passage is a HUGE deal! I caution you, JD and GO and any other believers reading this, to not pretend Jesus Christ was making an "unimportant" comparison between Noah's life saving ark and Jesus Christ's return.

Of course you could chase down King James' translators and do a bit of hairsplitting about what J.C. said and how He said it. I'm sure you and Ka could discuss the matter for weeks. But there is no way you can extract Noah and the ark from Jesus Christ's return to "kick ass and take names" for non-obedient and the reward of the obedient for His sheep.