Renewable Revolution

Quote from: luciddreams on July 06, 2017, 10:17:38 am

Quote from: Ashvin on July 06, 2017, 08:16:18 am

Quote from: RE on July 06, 2017, 08:02:22 am

Why do so many Diners seem to place such a high value on "egolessness"?    :icon_scratch:  Does being egoless somehow make you a better person than someone who has an ego?  Are you closer to perfection as a Homo Sap if you are egoless?

Moreover, WHY would you WANT to be egoless?  That's like wanting to go outside not wearing your underwear.  I certainly would not want to live in a world full of egoless people.  What would you talk with them about?

RE

Probably because every single problem or predicament faced by humanity can be traced back to our pride and ego (using the word to mean "a person's sense of self-importance").  If you want to solve the problems you have to deal with their roots.   

Ego certainly provides for "a person's sense of self-importance," but it is more then just that.  I would say that ego is like the mental body.  It is made very real by the mistake we make of allowing it to be real, to be taken seriously. 

However, it's also a necessary thing to have if you are going to be of the world.  If you are going to renounce the world, and live in a monastery, or in a cave in the wilderness, then you no longer need an ego.  In fact, going to a monastery is very much about giving yourself the ability to live without ego.  At least as close to that state as you can get. 

What is personality if not the things our ego has attached to and made into self?  Our preferences and distastes are all made possible by the process of attachment.  Which is why, in Buddhist philosophy, attachment is the fundamental problem.  It's the root cause of all suffering.  It's akin to the concept of original sin in Christianity.  To not be attached to anything is to be egoless.  That includes opinions and preferences.  I'm not the Buddhist monk on the Diner though...Knarf is, and I'm glad he's still here.  I have much respect for his way of life. 

I got distracted on my way to fetch the water.   :laugh:

Well if we make the "ego" equivalent to our identity as personal beings and the sense of selfhood, then I would agree with RE that there's nothing wrong with ego. I don't believe the world is something to be detached from, but rather something to be revered, maintained and taken in with gracious hearts. To do this, we must have opinions and make judgments on ourselves and others.

In most Christian theology our selfhood is real and important, but our fundamental sin is thinking and behaving in a way that places more importance on one's own self than on God or other "selfs". There is no way to avoid this completely in a fallen state, but we should certainly recognize it and do what we can to tip the scales.

DW, The only entropy a human can undergo is decomposing after death. Homeostatic pressure of the ego is its desperation for self preservation. The neurological state of meditation is slow wave activity. The mechanism is your whole parasympathetic nervous system. The mechanism for thinking is your brain. That it is the same thing used for ego is similar to the fact that the same hand can build things or break things.

18 The teaching about the cross seems foolish to those who are lost. But to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

19 As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise.  I will confuse the understanding of the intelligent.”

20 So what does this say about the philosopher, the law expert, or anyone in this world who is skilled in making clever arguments? God has made the wisdom of the world look foolish.

21 This is what God in his wisdom decided: Since the world did not find him through its own wisdom, he used the message that sounds foolish to save those who believe it.

22 The Jews ask for miraculous signs, and the Greeks want wisdom. 23 But this is the message we tell everyone: Christ was killed on a cross. This message is a problem for Jews, and to other people it is nonsense.