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Author Topic: End Times according to the Judeo Christian Bible  (Read 385 times)

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AGelbert

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    • Agelbert Truth AND Consequences
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I'm not sure you've actually heard my definition of Christianity. ... Profession of faith, Confession of sins, baptism of some sort.

That's a pretty unusual set of rituals.  As a non-Christian (baptised at birth) it is hard to take you to task over your definition of what Christianity is, but surely it has got to have something to do with believing in the rightness of what Jesus preached - "love your enemies as much as yourself", "turn the other cheek" and not to put yourself first all the time. Given you think my hermit lifestyle is proof of something bad (not sure quite what) could you please explain that in plain language without citing someone else, without riddles, and without Amerikan slang.

Well, I think Palloy has hit the semantic nail right on the head. I rarely agree with him, but he is right here.

Eddie, I am curious. Do you actually think the USA was EVER a Christian country? The Founding Fathers were deists, NOT Christians. Their pattern for government was the Roman Republic of the Roman Empire. They were imperialists from the word go. This country's beliefs are, and always have been, based on MIGHT EQUALS RIGHT, PERIOD.

Yes, the US is very much a Christian country and always has been.

The Founding Fathers were more educated, philosophically oriented, and generally perhaps a bit more enlightened than the rank and file citizens of the early days. We were greatly influenced by all the splinter group protestant religions that arose in Europe and then were brought here by those looking for a place to practice their various sectarian brands of Christianity without interference from the State.

They were mostly alike in that they were the high-guilt, sins-of-the-father-visited-on-the-son brand of hell-fire and damnation Christianity.

America forever is stained with the stiff-necked, self-righteous dogma of the Puritans. It is the Puritans I blame for much of what is wrong with our culture.


Guilt is the LAST thing Americans, especially the Founding Exploiters, have ever been known for. A people that wallow in guilt don't calmly go about conning the natives until they get enough power and population to kill them off, Eddie. Might equals Right is NOT Christian doctrine. NO, this country was never Christian in any way, shape or form, just like the Catholic church was never a Christian organization. So, I will disagree with you totally on that. This country is pagan to the core. The "Christian" thing was always a clever fig leaf to cover the ruthless greed of the elites AND the citizenry.

My best understanding of Jesus I gained not from Texas doctrine, but from reading Yogananda, who completely GOT Jesus, imho. He was so interested in trying to explain Jesus to Americans that he wrote two whole books about it, neither of whom ever got much attention.

Was Yogananda a Christian? Specifically, did Yogananda believe that Jesus Christ was, and is, God? If not, Yogananda was focusing on the teachings, not the supernatural nature of grace and the action of the Holy Spirit. That is, again, the belief that humans can actually follow Christ's teachings by the force of their own "Godlike" will. Did Yogananda believe in Karma? Karma is a replacement for God's answer to sin without God. That is, quite frankly, a blasphemy if associated with Chritianity or Jesus Christ.

Gandhi, like you, said he liked Christianity (i.e. SOME, not all, of Christ's teachings) but wasn't too impressed with the unChristian behavior of Christians.

I respectfully, but totally, disagree with your definition of Christianity. Knarf, the Bhuddist, is quite Christian in his behavior towards fellow humans and the life forms around him. That does not make him a Christian.

Your behavior towards your neighbors is ethical and laudable, but that does not make you a Christian. I am sure Yogananda, if he lives still, is a principled human with laudable behavior. But as long he claims Jesus was not God, Yogonanda, like Gandhi, Knarf and you, is not a Christian. Monotheism is not negotiable in Christianity.

Nice conversation and no hard feelings about a single thing on my part. I hope I didn't say anything you found offensive. I understand and respect your brand of Christian faith. And your works are substantial and speak for themselves.

Yogananda talked a lot about what he called Christ Consciousness. I'm not sure I can explain that very succinctly, although it makes sense to me.

I can't really say that I think he was a Christian... by your measure and by the New Testament, no, I don't think he was a Christian.

I'm pretty sure he did not ever undergo a baptism and confess his sins and accept Christ as I was taught was necessary.

Did he give his life to God? Yes. He very much did that. I recommend his autobiography. Steve Jobs, btw, was said to have given away many, many  copies to people, as he thought it was the most important book people could ever read.

I'm not sure you've actually heard my definition of Christianity. In my post above I repeated what many, many Christian ministers have said. Not just the church I grew up in, which was very fundie, but also every one of the other Christian churches I ever sat through a sermon in, which is quite a few. All protestant, however. They all agreed on the basics. Profession of faith, Confession of sins, baptism of some sort.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think just going through the motions means much. I agree that it does not. Many "Christians" are going through the motions. And Palloy is right, that many of them are brainwashed. But it isn't just TV. They're brainwashed in church too. That has become prevalent, unfortunately.


I've read quite a bit about "Christ consciousness". You will probably disagree, but it is based on a person using their OWN WILL to DO Christ and/or to "channel" the "ascended master" thing that Jesus has allegedly achieved. That does involve spiritual experience, but it is not the Holy Spirit doing the action in the person. So, any true Christian must reject it.

Sorry to be so frank, but, I was exposed to a lot of the New Age stuff before I finally gave myself to Christ. I am no spring chicken. I went through the whole reincarnation belief structure too and read several books about this amazingly logical karmic multi-life structure. I was attracted by the apparent balance  (i.e. hope for justice for all). Unfortuantely, the whole ball of metaphysical wax there revolves around the SELF, not God. It is 100% against everything that Christ taught.

The brainwashing done in the "Christian" churches, since (and long before) this country began, was, and is, exclusively for the purpose of suckering the rubes to conflate the National Flag with God so they will be willing to die for empire in wars. It has ZIP to do with Christianity.

The "hell and damantion" thing IS Christian, whether you and I and Yogananda like it or not. ;)  BUT, if that pack of lying preachers had actually believed in Hell and Damnation as punishment for evil behavior, they would not have trained Americans to love money and do whatever necessary, including "God" approved murder and mayhem in other countries, to GET IT!

Sure, every other country from Spain to England to France to Italy to Russia to Germany (e.g. Gott Mit Uns!) has pulled the same con on their people. That does NOT make it Christian. That just proves that religion was hijacked in the propaganda service of the warmongering state! The problem is the STATE, not the Christian Faith.

You are fond of lambasting that war promoting propaganda effort everywhere else but you think it is some kind of simple con game to get money out of people in the "Christian" churches? It goes WAY BEYOND THAT! And, you know it. Lambast away at those Texas megachurches! They deserve to be burned to the ground and every crooked "Christian" pastor forced to give back all the money they conned out of the rubes. All I ask is that you use quotes around the word "Christian" when you speak of those devils.

Eddie, I don't have a "brand" of Christianity. You are free to call it that but I hasten to add that the basic tenets of the Christian Faith require worshipping God. That's the one, the only, God. That is not some monist "we are all one and we are actually worshipping ourselves" concept. Monism is basphemy.

My major complaint with these discussions with you is that you refuse to make a distinction between Christians and "Christians" behaviorwise, never mind the Heinz 57 number of excuses for "Christianity" out there. You claim this fellow Yogananda really understood Jesus. Well, I am CERTAIN that he rejected absolutely everything Jesus Christ said about Hell and Damnation. A person can't claim to know Jesus Christ and reject His rather frequent warnings of "outer darkness" and such for those who rejected His teachings by replacing Divine punishment with some Karma mechanism. That's just more cherry picking the Gospel for convenience.

Yogananda never served God if he believed in Karma, no matter how righteous his behavior was. Works without Faith are as empty as Faith without Works.

We can go back and forth forever defining either the Christian TALK (doctrine, rituals, etc.) and/or the Christian WALK (respect for our neighbors and daily submission to God's will through prayer) but it is clear that I can never convince you that the WALK MUST accompany the TALK for a person to be a Christian. 

So, believe what you will. May God guide your thoughts, words and deeds, Amen.
Leges         Sine    Moribus     Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

 

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