Renewable Revolution

For those here that have issues defining objectivity (or accepting that objectivity exists at all!), duality, a personal God and so on, I think this all goes to the ENORMOUS disagreement on what HUMAN PERCEPTION validates as true or not true in this forum.

I see demarcation arguments left and right used for the SOLE PURPOSE of invalidating hard empirical evidence of what IS and what AIN'T.

But let us say, for the sake of non-argument, that everything our brain, consciousness, mind, soul (or whatever you want to call the "illusion" of cognition  :icon_mrgreen:) is kidding itself 24/7.

If that is so, everything we perceive is suspect, along with any and all concepts (because concepts are a function of our "illusory" cognition  ) about right and wrong.

This "illusion" we all have is an ORDERED illusion. That ORDER is necessary to CREATE THE ILLUSION of cause and effect. Cause and effect, from the observed laws of nature to the metaphysical claims of right and wrong, as a duality world view function of obedience or disobedience to a Supreme SEPARATE Being OR as a Monist function of harmony within the ONENESS of all (see ethical behavior of Monists).

But that STILL leaves us with the DEMARCATION argument that CAUSE AND EFFECT ORDER (laws of thermodynamics and measurable phenomenon) are THEMSELVES and illusion.

That argument is CIRCULAR. It's a TAUTOLOGY. Therefore it CANNOT "fly" as a valid demarcation argument.

We NEED some phenomenon that we ALL CAN AGREE is objectively observable and scientifically measurable. Monists DO NOT WANT TO GO THERE. They say that our minds are creating that order so anything measured is no proof of DUALITY.

I posted all the evidence of incredibly complex cell machines as a direct refutation of the monist view that our minds shape the order of our reality. Nobody said jack **** about that. The scientists, mostly atheists, were EXPECTING (see order created by mind over matter "creates perception" according to the monist world view) to see SIMPLE MECHANISMS that could have evolved randomly in 14 billion years! They SAW what they DID NOT WANT TO SEE!

But let us assume that they were, as any monist worth his salt will claim  :icon_mrgreen:, really, deep down, expecting complexity that contradicted all their atheistic views. That's certainly possible but it sounds rather improbable if our mind, as monists claim, works 24/7 to SHAPE reality.

But let us say that cell complexity is just part of a random universe and we just haven't figured out the evolutionary mechanism, like Palloy claims.

Even THAT claim will be challenged by monists because everybody is at a different "level" of "oneness" so no universal this or that will ever be discovered (MORE demarcation fun and games).

RE agree that the mind of God created the ORDER in the universe. That order is measurable and is evidence of a creator.

I will go further. That ORDER is NOT shaped by our expectations and perceptions, as Monists claim. When Mankind ONLY had his senses to measure cause and effect, the words of Aristotle ("Man is the measure of all things") might have worked for the Monist view of a universe shaped by ONE mind that we are, according to our level of spiritual advancement, capable of tuning into and perceiving the whole enchilada with (see meditation).

BUT, mankind invented INSTRUMENTS. The LATEST measurements by those extremely sophisticated instruments that measure quantum frequencies within chains of atoms have found evidence TOTALLY at odds with the scientific view of a random universe. And the ORDER at the sub atomic level is BEYOND the power of ANY human mind, regardless of what the monists will claim.

What has been found is that the Fibonacci ration of 1.618 ORDERS quantum particles. That was discovered in 2010. The scientists DID NOT WANT TO DISCOVER THAT. It blows away any and all concepts of randomness in this universe. It is the FINGERPRINT of a God CONSTANTLY creating 24/7.

Monists will say, ho hum. That's cool. You are entitled to your illusions. But phi down to the quantum level is NO ILLUSION. Spare me the demarcation argument. This is OBJECTIVE evidence of a creator separate from Homo SAPS. Quantum particle ENTER and EXIT our universe CONTINUALLY. Some AGENCY is ORDERING them in the phi 1.618 ratio EX NIHILO. That AGENCY is God CREATING MATTER AND ENERGY 24/7.   



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