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Author Topic: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi  (Read 5655 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #150 on: July 27, 2017, 05:16:57 pm »
Koch Brothers Video Smears Electric Cars. Can You Spot The Lies?
July 27th, 2017 by Steve Hanley

Not content to push America toward fascism and line their pockets with cash from fossil fuel enterprises that negatively affect the health of millions, the deadly duo of Charles and David Koch have reached down from the executive suite to order up a video designed to paint electric cars as evil, death-dealing machines.     

It must be fun to have so much money that you can subvert entire governments with devious schemes to make even more money.

Watch this latest video from the Koch-funded front group Fueling U.S. Forward, which has as its motto, “Discover the value and potential of fossil fuels.” Feel free to jot down the lies you can find as you go through this professionally prepared experiment in thought control. Feel free to share your list with others in the comments section. 


The brainiacs behind this hatchet job are just a small piece of the vast Koch Industries empire, which has created a dizzying array of think tanks, institutes, research organizations, and shell corporations designed to do one thing and one thing only — make Charles and David Koch richer by stomping out any and all opposition to their business empire. Several of those organizations have played a major role in the attack on climate science over the past 20 years.

Thanks to their willingness to make graft legal, they have subverted much of the federal, state, and local governments in America so that they are stocked with pliable politicians anxious to do the Koch brothers’ bidding. Thanks to them and other like-minded individuals, we have Citizens United; extremists like James Inhofe, Scott Pruitt, and Kris Kobach; and a US Congress falling all over itself to repeal the Affordable Care Act so that the uber wealthy can get a multi-billion-dollar tax cut — even if it means tens of millions of Americans will lose their health coverage.

Emboldened by their success at buying all three branches of government, the Koch-sponsored interests don’t even bother to disguise their nefarious plans to make the government work for them any more. Last month they told members of Congress in no uncertain terms that the “piggy bank” of funds for political donations was closed until legislators repealed the hated ACA. 


Morality, humanitarian concerns, and compassion have no place in the Kochosphere. They are Ebenezer Scrooge writ large — greedy, grasping overlords who revel in the misery of others so long as they benefit financially.

A complete catalog of the Koch brothers network and their dastardly deeds would be larger than the Encyclopedia Britannica. Fortunately, someone has done all the hard work of compiling some of that information for us. Jane Meyer, a writer for The New Yorker has published a book entitled Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right.

Quote
“Few had waged a more relentless or more effective assault on Americans’ belief in government,” Mayer writes.

Media Matters has done an extensive review of Mayer’s book, delving deeply into such topics as how the Kochs buy and control the media to advance their personal agenda. Readers will find disturbing parallels between the machinations of the Koch brothers and the media circus that surrounds the administration of #FakePresident Trump.

To fully understand how trash like the video from Fueling U.S. Forward gets made and distributed, it is necessary to understand the forces at work that created it. Sadly, in today’s world, where discussion is limited to sentences no more than 142 character long, in-depth thinking is difficult. That’s why even though Americans give Congress an approval rating of around 10%, incumbents get reelected 97% of the time.

The power of change is still in the ballot box, but unless people are willing to take the time to understand the issues and actually go vote, that power may soon be lost forever. The Koch brothers are counting on voter apathy and voters’ willingness to believe the last thing they hear. That’s all they need to make their dreams come true.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/07/27/koch-brothers-video-smears-electric-cars-can-spot-lies/

Agelbert NOTE: Don't miss the comments! 

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/07/27/koch-brothers-video-smears-electric-cars-can-spot-lies/
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AGelbert

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #151 on: August 07, 2017, 02:25:19 pm »

Quote
In the year of 1936 during the middle of summer, an ancient tomb was discovered during construction of a new railway line near Bagdad city in Iraq. The relics found in that tomb were about 2000 years old. Among these relics, there were some clay jars or vessels which were sealed at the top with pitch. An iron rod, surrounded by a cylindrical tube made of wrapped copper sheet was projected out from this sealed top.

When these pots were filled with an acidic liquid, they produced a potential difference of around 2 volts between the iron and copper. These clay jars are suspected to be 2000 year old battery cells.

https://www.electrical4u.com/battery-history-and-working-principle-of-batteries/

This area of investigation has always fascinated me. We are ever-so-smug in our presentism, that the ancients were a bunch of ignorant rubes, but there are enough discoveries found in the wrong place to indicate that we are wrong.

And then of course is the question of where the knowledge came from
.

 

Yep. Your observation has some very important nuggets of wisdom that most people do not even begin to undertand, never mind taking to heart in order to realize how delibertely dumbed down our society is.

The most important part of your obervation is the fact that people are indoctrinated to BE smug about our incredibly, STUPID, suicidally destructive society.

Smugness breeds the overcondence that always precedes dumb, and sometines trajic, errors in judgement.

We don't need to go back to ancient times to see that at work now. Tesla made it quite clear in the early 20th century that we DID NOT NEED to use fossil fuels for ANYTHING because energy was plentiful. But ignorant, brain washed people claim cheap, clean energy, especially those who have eaten the happy talk for the fossil fuel liars and crooks, as advocated by Nikola Tesla (and Thomas Edison too, by the way) is a "pipe dream".  ::)

Smug, brain washed people that actually believe the BALONEY that we "owe" our standard of living to our "loyal servants, the fossil fuel industry", when there is NO QUESTION that the microscope (and the discovery of germs that cause disease) is the REAL REASON for the human population explosion, will continue to wallow in their stupidity until it is too late. Personal hygiene is the CAUSE of the human population explosion, not the fossil fuel based "economy".

The ancients certainly were not ignorant rubes. Nikola Tesla and Thomas Edison weren't rubes either.




Before Edison said the following, he had gone on record over a decade earlier clearly stating that hydrocarbon fuels for internal combustion engines were INFERIOR to ethanol BECAUSE of all the waste heat and resultant added engine wear. Ethanol only engines would be TWO THIRDS lighter than hydrocarbon powered engines because ethanol runs cool (because it carries it's own oxygen with it causing TOTALLY EVEN BURNING), as well as being renewable and polluting less. And it is also propaganda mendacity out there that claims we would "cut into world food supply by growing ethanol crops".   

But telling bold face crocodile tear laden lies has never stopped the brain washers that so many here smugly worship.   
 
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AGelbert

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #152 on: August 07, 2017, 08:43:00 pm »
Demystifying Three Climate Lies - The Road to Decarbonisation | Thomas Stocker | TEDxBern


TEDx Talks

Published on Oct 13, 2016

Thomas Stocker starts by debunking three of the most popular climate change myths. He is one of the leading researchers in the field of climate and regularly advises the UN. At the end of the talk, he shows the way out of climate change: decarbonisation.

Thomas Stocker graduated from ETH Zürich in 1987 and held research positions in London, Montreal and New York. Since 1993 he is Professor of Climate and Environmental Physics at the University of Bern. This research group is leading in the reconstruction of greenhouse gas concentrations from polar ice cores and the simulation of past and future climate changes. From 2008 to 2015 he co-chaired Working Group I of the IPCC, the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
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AGelbert

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #153 on: August 27, 2017, 04:24:43 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: The following several posts are from a thread on another forum. I post them here to show how exercised people who refuse to believe the facts can get when a fossil fuel shill they consider an "energy expert" is accused of defamatory activity to  undermine the danger of near term human extinction from using polluting energy sources. I am the accuser. Some agreed that Nicole Foss was peddling attack the messenger libel. Some did not. So it goes.

Nicole told me about this **** a couple of years ago, but she wasn't prepared at the time to go public with it.  Now she has.  It was published on The Wrong Kind of Green website.  Thanks to RandyC for making me aware of it.

RE

STATEMENT

Wrong Kind of Green Aug 26, 2017 Neo-Liberalism and the Defanging of Feminism

August 26, 2017

To all-

It has come to our attention that a respected leader of our small online enclave has betrayed the trust many people have instilled in him over the past years.  We are stunned at these revelations like everyone else.  It was with much internal debate and emotional pain that we decided as a group that we had to release the information to the community.  Although this form of information is not our usual forte as we are collectively concerned about overriding issues, such as leaving some form of a natural world above all else, it was something so stunningly vile that we had no other choice but to present it to the community as our conscience would not allow us to conceal this from the public.

Since this decision, which is something we thoroughly debated due to its seriousness, there is much online discussion regarding to what degree his transgressions can be described as terrible and even if they should be in the public due to the personal nature of the correspondence.  From this perspective, this person and his supporters have pointed to the fact that the behavior between himself and the woman in question was of a consensual, private nature, and should be of no concern to the wider community.  We believe this argument falls short for three critical reasons which should be considered both separately and collectively.

The first reason is one of ethics, which is separate from legality.  The word ethics is defined as “a branch of philosophy that involves systematizing, defending, and recommending concepts of right and wrong conduct.”  Most professional organizations have codes of ethics, which participants must adhere to in order to remain in good standing.  In regards to its specific ethical standards, the American Psychological Association states “your psychologist shouldn’t also be your friend, client, or sex partner.  That’s because psychologists are supposed to avoid relationships that could impair their professional performance or harm their clients. One type of relationship that’s never acceptable is a sexual relationship with a current client.“

This person has taken on several roles, which in combination provide the framework for producing potentially serious ethical concerns.  As a recognized authority in the field of climate science, this person’s words contain the weight of authority for many.  His carefully worded prognostications of a coming end of human existence on the planet, though backed by his scientific understanding,  nonetheless have the ability to produce a state of anxiety, uncertainty, and despair in those who accept his perspective.  This person acknowledges this on his website, stating that “Because the topics of his presentations sometimes induce despair, Guy became a certified grief-recovery specialist in January 2014.”

The combination of his pursuits, as a climate scientist predicting the end of life as we know it, and grief counselor, puts him in the unique role of both producing or exacerbating the effect of anxiety or despair in an individual, as well as creating the context through which that despair is then addressed.  His audience, of which we have been a part, consists of individuals often marginalized by our larger society that ignores the very real warnings of catastrophic  climate change.  The views shared by many in our Near Term Human Extinction (NTHE) group have produced not simply a sense of despair about the future, but also a sense of isolation from our immediate communities and families.  Solace is then sought out within the NTHE community, under the banner of this person’s scientific findings.

While in many ways natural responses warranted by our current situation, this combination of despair, confusion, and isolation, none the less set up the potential for the exploitation of those who acutely feel the desperation and disorientation of abrupt climate change, and have nowhere else to turn for answers.

And this is the reason for the need for ethics and ethical boundaries.  This person is in a position of authority with direct influence over the mental, emotional, and in some cases physical and monetary lives, of those who exist in a state of vulnerability.  This is a state which he has helped to facilitate and of which he profits from in his personal life.  To then use that position, as this person has done, to engage in sexualized relations with women by way of administering a self-serving “healing” to individuals who are going such traumatic personal experiences, is a violation of ethical boundaries.  From a purely ethical perspective within a narrowly focused context of a professor/student and grief therapist/client context, the exact content of these relations, which will justifiably elicit revulsion in many by themselves, is not the primary concern.  The mere existence of these relations under such power dynamics, whether consensual or not, is at best ethically compromised, simply because of the potential  for abuse that exists, even if no actual abuse can be conclusively identified.  As the revelations of women who have come forward and expressed their pain with regard to these relationships continues to grow, this strongly indicates that emotional abuse and the abuse of power were at play and their claims should be taken with utmost seriousness. At the most basic level, it is because these abuses could take place that professional boundaries and codes of ethics are established and why we should reject this person‘s behavior.

In that vein, the truth of the matter is that whatever grey area there may potentially be is no longer up for debate due to his repeated and lengthy record of attempting and succeeding in taking advantage of women in a vulnerable position emotionally due to the disheartening mental and social effects of personally accepting the ongoing Sixth Great Extinction (of which humanity will be one of its victims, as well as its singular cause).  As one of the admittedly unfiltered and honest voices concerning this present set of circumstances with few people having the sphere of influence that he has in our small community,  the unethical manner in which he used this trust for nefarious sexual ends repeatedly has left us no other recourse but to do everything in our power to stop him from continuing the same behavior.

This then leads to the second critical point.  While the argument has been made that in regard to his relations with one particular woman, the content is irrelevant because of its consensual nature, this defense rings hollow.  To use an analogy: while living in a free society one may be legally permitted to hold racist beliefs and freely associate with other racists, a member of the NAACP would  nonetheless rightfully oppose its leader if they were later discovered to be a member of the KKK.  Such an association would clearly violate the spirit and mission of an organization promoting racial justice, and in the duplicity of core beliefs in the leadership, it would  also indicate a threat to the structural integrity of the organization and potentially its members.  It would not matter whether the current leader had joined the KKK after being first approached by a klansman, or if the leader started a chapter on his own.  The compromise would be clear.

Similarly, the content of his interactions with one woman in question, no matter how they came about, indicated the willingness of this person to engage in, perhaps initiate, **** fantasies  and other degrading and sexually objectifying dialogues that are not congruous with the core values of a significant number of members of the Near Term Human Extinction Support Group and its associated community.  This incongruity is borne out in the fact that he has spoken out specifically against patriarchy on his regular online radio program and in innumerous public forums and presentations, but has engaged in fantasies of **** and sexual enslavement, which represent the most extreme form of patriarchy, regardless of how that interaction began.   Therefore, the problems surrounding the content of his interactions are twofold.  They are contained in both the degrading, misogynist verbiage itself and the fact that such interactions represent a betrayal of trust relating to the public image of a respect for life and an opposition to patriarchy that he has cultivated in the public eye to his personal benefit.

The destruction of the Earth, the underlying concern of the NTHE support group, is the direct result of human and environmental exploitation, a core element of which is the domination of women where females are treated as property to be used  like much of the natural world, mere objects for male gratification.  Thus the move from more egalitarian, hunter gatherer societies into stratified agricultural and industrial societies, which culminated in today’s planet devouring global civilization which this person critiques, entailed the objectification and commodification of women.  To participate in such objectification and fantasies of female subjugation with a potential member of the NTHE group no less, goes beyond hypocrisy.  It signifies that in regard to what this person believes and values, he cannot be trusted.  And given the context, as suggested in the above analogy, this duplicity threatens both group integrity and potentially the safety of its members.

Perhaps some would say that the way in which the information was obtained makes us no better and even worse than the perpetrator, as there are many online accusations of this being the case.  However, we didn’t go out seeking this information, even if we are greatly appreciative of it since it allows us the opportunity to stop any future manipulations by someone in a leadership position.  It was brought to us and we made the difficult decision to use it for the greater good of stopping any further occurrences – our decision superseding any disparaging things said about us individually or collectively.

Ultimately, the fact of the matter is that none of the individuals who became privy to this information have an axe to grind with this person. Actually, this is quite the contrary.  We are all people who had a great amount of respect and admiration of him as a scholar and a person.  It wasn’t until recently that those who possessed such a tremendous amount of respect for this man started questioning his motives outside of the irrefutable science and his singular desire to provide it to the public.  Sadly, this recent incident dispelled any doubts in our minds regarding much of his endeavors.

We are a small community of activists.  Most of what we know to be true in this world in regards to the state of affairs of the planet are things that are not accepted by the mainstream world, even though they are playing out in real time and disaffecting humanity at this very instant and with growing intensity.  As it is difficult to find any sources of solidarity, be it local or globally, once this disparate group of human beings find comrades or leaders (of which there are even less), we tend to cling on to them in great desperation as they are truly few and far between.

As this is the case, the people who come to us and try to find a community of some sort to explain to them what is going on or just commiserate about the ongoing travails of this global society are the picture of vulnerability during their greatest hour of need.  Hence, it is unethical, even predatory, for anyone to take advantage of these people while they are most defenseless.  As some people are trying to construe this as just a single, solitary case,  the fact of the matter is that this has been an ongoing pattern for awhile now and has reached a point where someone must step in and stem the tide of abuse this man is committing on this tiny yet venerable group.

As such, it begs the question how long can people righteously withhold  what they know to be the truth when it comes to this man’s interaction with the members of such a small group, an already victimized sect who find very little acceptance in general society?  Can we, as supposedly moral people, just sit back idly and allow this type of behavior to continue unabated since it is the path of least resistance to stay silent?  As the response from this tight knit community has ranged from outrage to acceptance, the outcome of this revelation is of no real importance as biases abound as to the acceptance of this information.  Since that is the case, the only thing of barometric significance is apprising the people of the truth to keep them from harm, which was our singular reason for the release of this information.

Although we are cognizant that all of us have personal transgressions and no one is perfect, the predatory nature of this individual makes him a threat to both those who may be accepting of his advances and, most importantly, those who are not.  If the interaction is one of consent amongst equals, it is not the business of us as individuals or as a group to intercede at all.  But, when there is a blatant disregard for the welfare of the people  in an attempt to serve the lascivious desires of one man, then that is something that must be addressed by those who are in power to do so by any means necessary.

This brings us to the third and final critical point.  Not only was there a sordid psycho-sexual aspect of what took place that was against everything this man professed to be of a personal nature as a leader of a social movement, he also betrayed the confidence and trust of another intellectual leader and comrade in the movement, where, based on his documented language, it is a legitimate concern as to whether or not he would have been an actual physical threat to her if he had the opportunity.  With this third and final critical piece, his actions go beyond purely professional ethical violations and public misrepresentations of core values which demonstrate a willingness to degrade and objectify women.  His discussion moves into the realm of creating a physical environment that justifiably feels unsafe to core members.  As previously mentioned, there are other cases of women who have begun to voice their own troubling experiences, which at this time we cannot provide further details.

Therefore, even though we have all had an immense amount of respect for this man over the years, the recent events show he isn’t worthy of being in a position of influence and power over others, as he has abused it in the past, is abusing it presently and will assuredly continue this behavior in the future if no one attempts to at least stop him.

Although we are understanding that people will still hold their opinions about the veracity of the evidence against this man and come away absolving him of all guilt in this series of events, the primary thing we hope to accomplish is to warn those who are in the community about the ulterior motives of this man.  Once people are provided all the evidence, it is up to them to make a personal decision if they wish to continue their relationship with this person, be it personal and/or professional.  We aren’t here to tell anyone what to do in any aspect, as freedom of thought and choice is something we believe in and respect.  However, we would be remiss if we didn’t provide people the total knowledge they need to make informed decisions.

As we know that many people will consider our revelation as being divisive and a planned attack for some fantastical reason that has no basis in reality, we can only say we received this information through no attempt on our part and will receive no reward for releasing it.  Once we became aware of it though, there was no other recourse but to bring it to the public sphere, as the ongoing pattern of behavior was spiraling out of control. There will be those who will cast aspersions against our character and accuse us of somehow profiting in some way from this event, even though this is anything but the case.  Still, there will be many people who will consider us turncoats, paid informants, subversives and every other form of accusation as to our motives.  Yet, we will almost assuredly lose more favor and receive heightened scorn through providing this information than any other outcome.  No matter what blowback we receive though, it is worth it to us to receive a mountain of negative response rather than live with the unconscionable act of staying silent in the face of knowing malfeasance.

We welcome all queries about the veracity of the information since the specific evidence is part of the public domain and not under our supervision.  We have nothing to hide and will vociferously defend our decisions in this matter since to be silent in this regard is criminal, if not legally, then definitely morally.

We are greatly appreciative of the support from our online community in bringing this to the fore.

Thank you.

Michael  Sliwa, Host of the radio show Nature Bats Last from August 2014 to May 2017

Derrick Jensen, Deep Green Resistance

Lierre Keith, Deep Green Resistance

Cory Morningstar, Wrong Kind of Green

Forrest Palmer, Wrong Kind of Green

Luke Orsborne, Wrong Kind of Green

 

+++

Psychiatrist, researcher, teacher, and author Judith Herman:

“Authoritarian, secretive, sometimes grandiose, and even paranoid, the perpetrator is nevertheless exquisitely sensitive to the realities of power and to social  norms. Only rarely does he get into difficulties with the law; rather, he seeks out situations where his tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired. His demeanor provides an excellent camouflage, for few people believe that extraordinary crimes can be committed by men of such conventional appearance.  The perpetrator’s first goal appears to be the enslavement of his victim, and he accomplishes this goal by exercising despotic control over every aspect of the victim’s life. But simple compliance rarely satisfies him; he appears to have a psychological need to justify his crimes, and for this he needs the victim’s affirmation. Thus he relentlessly demands from his victim professions of respect, gratitude, or even love. His ultimate goal appears to be the creation of a willing victim. Hostages, political prisoners, battered women, and slaves have all remarked upon the captor’s curious psychological dependence upon his victim. George Orwell gives voice to the totalitarian mind in the novel 1984: “We are not content with negative obedience, nor even with the most abject submission. When finally you surrender to us, it must be of your own free will. We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us; so long as he resists us we never destroy him. We convert him, we capture his inner mind, we reshape him. We burn all evil and all illusion out of him; we bring him over to our side, not in appearance, but genuinely, heart and soul.”

 The desire for total control over another person is the common denominator of all forms of tyranny. Totalitarian governments demand confession and political conversion of their victims. Slaveholders demand gratitude of their slaves. Religious cults demand ritualized sacrifices as a sign of submission to the divine will of the leader. Perpetrators of domestic battery demand that their victims prove complete obedience and loyalty by sacrificing all other relationships. Sex offenders demand that their victims find sexual fulfillment in submission. Total control over another person is the power dynamic at the heart of pornography. The erotic appeal of this fantasy to millions of terrifyingly normal men fosters an immense industry in which women and children are abused, not in fantasy but in reality.”


FINAL-STATEMENT-AUGUST-26-2017-final-revision


Nicole told me about this **** a couple of years ago, but she wasn't prepared at the time to go public with it.  Now she has.  It was published on The Wrong Kind of Green website.  Thanks to RandyC for making me aware of it.

RE

I saw some discussion of this on The Panic room, Gail Zawacki's FB page. Was wondering WTF was going on. If this is accurate, a lot of things make more sense as they fall into place.

ICK.

Was not aware of the "psycho-sexual" angle. WTF is Nicole talking about? Sounds a bit far-fetched, imho.

There is more information on Facebook.  I was not aware of the nature of the problem until a week ago.  It first surfaced when Robin Westenra of Seemorerocks blog made comments that a woman had accused Guy of taking advantage of her.  Guy claims it was among consenting adults, but the problem is one of ethics, taking advantage of vulnerable people as a grief councilor.

Also, take a look at the people who added their names to the bottom of the statement, Mike Sliwa lived near Guy in New Mexico and co-hosted his radio show.  The two were friends!  I doubt very much that this is just a personal attack because Cory Morningstar and Derrick Jensen co-signed it as well as three other people.  I hardly think they would do that and risk their reputation and position in the collapse community without good reason.

Take a look at Guy's more recent posts on NBL.  He is taking a break from his public presence due to "professional trolls" and the "deep-state."

https://guymcpherson.com/2017/08/im-mostly-done/#more-14549

Something is clearly wrong here. 

Finally, Nicole and Guy had a falling out several years ago because Guy was rather rude to her, as well as others analysts in the collapse community because he didn't think they were taking a strong enough stand on the coming collapse.  He has been banned from The Automatic Earth for some time now, it is not even acceptable to speak his name on that web site.

If you want access to the Facebook feed, send Robin Westerna a friends request so you can read what people are saying.  Friend Nicole Foss as well as she posted it shortly after Wrong Kind of Green posted it.

WTF?  Seriously?  I read the entire article.  They never even said what supposedly happened.  It was all just insinuated.  ****!  That is a strong word to use for consensual sex amongst adults. 

It sounds like complete bullshit to me.  Sounds like two people had some kinky sex, then somebody got their feelings hurt and went public to smear Guy's name.  It's nobodies **** business is what it is, unless there was actually a ****.  Looks to me like this is a publicity stunt for Nicole. 

The world is burning and we're supposed to get all in arms about some consensual sex? 

I don't know much about Guy as a person.  I just know his angle on NTHE, which I disagree with.  However, it appears to me that this is hitting below the belt.  If it's consensual than it's nobodies business accept the participants in the consensual act.  If it's r a p e, than it's a police matter. 

This is one good reason why I refer to facebook as "swampbook" and avoid it like the plague.


Nicole Foss is a deceitful propagandist for the fossil fuel industry.  Her claim to being an "energy expert" was BULLSHIT from the moment she SAID, "I know, but there is money to be made.", when I pointed out to her in 2012 that Fracking is an obscenity.

She IGNORED the FACT that there were, and still are, MASSIVE costs to the biosphere in general, and people in particular, that make the Fracking ERoEI happy numbers a total fossil fuel funded fabrication (that Foss would happily repeat over and over ).

ANYONE that has ANY respect for the Foss fossil fuel SHILL is worthy of pity, if not outright disdain.

I don't agree with much of what Guy says, but it is crystal clear to anyone with a modicum of objectivity and critical thinking skills that FOSS
 is out to undermine
(i.e. attack the messenger - fallacious debating technique) Guy's message simply because he has cited irrefutable evidence that the fossil fuel industry (and other polluters) are RESPONSIBLE for the biosphere degradation and the Sixth Mass Extinction Event we are now experiencing.

As usual, Nicole Foss is SHILLING for the fossil fuel industry, nothing more.
Guy is RIGHT that BUSINESS AS USUAL IS KILLING US.




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if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

AGelbert

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #154 on: August 27, 2017, 04:27:12 pm »
I don't know much about Guy as a person.  I just know his angle on NTHE, which I disagree with.  However, it appears to me that this is hitting below the belt.  If it's consensual than it's nobodies business accept the participants in the consensual act.  If it's ****, than it's a police matter. 
For a Prophet of Doom, consensual sex is purely a private matter.

If Guy wants to call himself a Grief Counselor, though, he needs to follow their Code of Ethics.  If their code of ethics states that he can't have sexual relations with a current client, then he should have told her that he couldn't be her counselor effectively because he was sexually attracted to her.  Then he would have been free to pursue a relationship with her, if she consented.

With all due respect, that is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Foss is engaging in an attack the messenger operation. If you cannot see that, I suggest you look deeper. She would like nothing more than for people to engage in arguing abut  the ethics of this, that or the other, just as long as the issue of biosphere destruction from the polluting business as usual status quo is not brought up. You are playing right into the Foss Fossil Fuel Shill's con.

It probably won't be long before Gail Tverberg weighs in with some added tear jerking distraction to defend Foss. 

When Foss talks, I always check the BS meter (see below for the reading on her latest effluent).



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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #155 on: August 27, 2017, 04:28:39 pm »
I don't know what occured in this incident with this woman, I only know about the behavior patterns that Nicole observed over a couple of years and told me about in confidence.  I promised not to reveal any of this stuff.

What we are talking about here is not physical ****. Nicole said most of the time no physical sex is involved at all, although sometimes it may be.  What Guy apparently gets his jollies from is to take emotionally weak women and make them psychologically dependent on him.  He uses his whole NTHE shpiel as a lever to accomplish this task.  This is not "illegal" in any code of law you could find, so I doubt there is any "crime" here you could prosecute.  It is however if true quite unethical.

During the time Nicole observed the behaviors, Guy was married and together with his wife, I don't know if he still is.  So his wife was either unaware of it at the time or if aware she tolerated the behaviors.  Nicole herself is quite the ardent Feminist, so you have to take her opinions of what was going on with a grain of salt as well here.  Feminists tend to see male predation on females everywhere (particularly among WHITE males), so you never get a truly unbiased opinion from them.  For me though, Nicole's opinions hold more weight than what Guy says and does, and this critique rings true to his personality that I have observed.

It will be interesting to see what the Blowback is from this inside the Collapse Community, which as we all know is quite small overall.  I imagine Guy will take a Low Profile position for a while, although I don't think he will disappear completely.  It will be interesting also to see how this affects his speaking tours if he continues to do them.  One would expect Gail Zawacki to show up and try to disrupt them, she is not shy about pulling that ****.

Like Sands through the Hourglass, these are the Days of Our Collapse Lives.  ::)


RE

I always have liked you, RE. But the fact that you have given Foss the time of day and even praised her knowledge of "energy" over the years shows a serious flaw of judgement on your part. It appears that you have been in friendly communication with her over the years. That too, is a blunder on your part.

But it's your life. Just don't be surprised when 99% of EVERYTHING that you thought made sense about energy ERoEI from Foss is proven to be TOTAL BULLSHIT on behalf of the fossil fuel industry.

I am your friend, RE. But I have not forgotten how you consistently sided with that SHILL Foss over energy issues when I severely criticized her. Yes, you defended my right to write my thoughts (that she and her side kick Ilargi attacked, undermined and refused to answer), but you never actually stated she's WRONG about energy and I'm RIGHT.

You probably still feel that way. You will probably never admit it, but you will learn I was right about the solution to our energy problems from the start.

Argue away. I am not in the mood to argue. Like I said, it's your life. If you want to befriend evil, lying people like Foss, that's your problem, not mine.

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #156 on: August 27, 2017, 04:29:51 pm »
Counselors of all kinds are notorious for ethics violations. Seen that movie about the life of Carl Jung and his patient who had to be spanked to get off?

This reeks of the usual Social Justice Warrior/Uber-feminist BS. Another reason I refuse to do FB at all.
 
Conformity 2.0.....

Day of our Collapse Lives indeed! Oh, the drama.

I don't like Guy McPherson much for reasons I've stated many times. But this is some sad, silly s h i t.

True? Dunno, but completely irrelevant to my collapse life.

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #157 on: August 27, 2017, 04:32:16 pm »
When Foss talks, I aleays check the BS meter (see below for the reading on her latest effluent).

On the BS Meter, Nicole usually puts it at about 80%.  Guy pegs it.

RE



The difference is not that significant, but it is interesting that you do not enter into the "20%" from Foss that you think is "acceptable". Guy does not bullshit about ERoEI happpy talk for fracking or any other fossil fuel. Guy cites scientific studies on extinction rates. Foss plays math games and cites fossil fuel industry stats like they were handed down to Moses on the Mountain while consitently ignoring pollution costs. Guy consistently points out the pollution costs.

Yeah, Guy is a super doomer and into some hyperbole about how soon it all comes crashing down. So? What part of the peer reviewed scientific studies he cites are not truthful or accurate? At least he doesn't pretend fossil fuels are God's gift to humanity. To claim, as Foss has done, that we will all die without fossil fuels is really pegging the BS meter!

Guy just states we will die BECAUSE we pollute, which is scientifically irrefutable (See: Do not industrially s h i t where you eat).



Tell me WHO iis the REAL BULLSHITTER.

[/quote]
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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #158 on: August 27, 2017, 04:35:16 pm »
When Foss talks, I aleays check the BS meter (see below for the reading on her latest effluent).

On the BS Meter, Nicole usually puts it at about 80%.  Guy pegs it.

RE

Yep, this whole incident is bullshit.  It's a publicity stunt for Foss IMO.  Guy may be a sexual deviant.  And?  Who gives a ****.  I certainly don't.  I agree that if he's a "grief counselor" then he shouldn't be **** his clients.  However, WTF is a grief counselor?  Did he go to college and get a doctorate in psychiatry?  Probably he went and sang kumbyeya with some hippies and got a certificate in grief counseling?  Good grief...really?  Maybe I should go be a grief counselor for money? 

I've got no interest in wasting my time dealing with people who likely just need a good ****.  Hell, sounds like Guy probably did that woman a favor.  Maybe part of his grief counseling is to give the gift of orgasm?  Who knows?  I, for one, don't give a ****.  Guy Mcstinkshin isn't selling me anything that I'm going to buy.  Nor is Foss.  This whole incident is just high school drama in the collapse-o-sphere. 

Consenting adults can **** each other, yes?  If they want to put clothes pins on their balls and pretend that they are being raped, and they all consent, then what's the difference if their foreplay was talking about NTHE and how hard it is to deal with?  Sounds like NTHE, Nihilism, and S&M should be great bedfellows. 

"Oh yes, fu ck me Guy, fu ck me in the ass while I scream and squirm and yell rap, we're all going to die next year anyways...oh yeah Guy, fu ck me with your little prick." 

"Fu ck you guy, you hurt my feelings with your little pri ck...I'm telling the stupid little collapse-o-sphere that you're a rap ing ass hole." 

I'm not buyin' any of it.

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #159 on: August 27, 2017, 04:37:44 pm »
I don't know much about Guy as a person.  I just know his angle on NTHE, which I disagree with.  However, it appears to me that this is hitting below the belt.  If it's consensual than it's nobodies business accept the participants in the consensual act.  If it's ****, than it's a police matter. 
For a Prophet of Doom, consensual sex is purely a private matter.

If Guy wants to call himself a Grief Counselor, though, he needs to follow their Code of Ethics.  If their code of ethics states that he can't have sexual relations with a current client, then he should have told her that he couldn't be her counselor effectively because he was sexually attracted to her.  Then he would have been free to pursue a relationship with her, if she consented.


With all due respect, that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

AG, with the greatest affection and respect, it IS the matter at hand. JD has framed the issue perfectly. All other agendas, and Foss' role vis a vis energy, are irrelevant to the main issue, which is the Guy is accused of abusing a counselor relationship.

"Why now" remains a valid question, for which I have answer and less interest.

I content myself in knowing that three billion Chinese don't care.

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #160 on: August 27, 2017, 04:40:25 pm »
When Foss talks, I aleays check the BS meter (see below for the reading on her latest effluent).

On the BS Meter, Nicole usually puts it at about 80%.  Guy pegs it.

RE

The difference is not that significant, but it is interesting that you do not enter into the "20%" from Foss that you think is "acceptable". Guy does not bullshit about ERoEI happpy talk for fracking or any other fossil fuel. Guy cites scientific studies on extinction rates. Foss plays math games and cites fossil fuel industry stats like they were handed down to Moses on the Mountain while consitently ignoring pollution costs. Guy consistently points out the pollution costs.

Yeah, Guy is a super doomer and into some hyperbole about how soon it all comes crashing down. So? What part of the peer reviewed scientific studies he cites are not truthful or accurate? At least he doesn't pretend fossil fuels are God's gift to humanity. To claim, as Foss has done, that we will all die without fossil fuels is really pegging the BS meter!

Guy just states we will die BECAUSE we pollute, which is scientifically irrefutable (See: Do not industrially **** where you eat).



Tell me WHO iis the REAL BULLSHITTER.


Tell me WHO iis the REAL BULLSHITTER.

In measuring Bullshit, IMHO Dr. McStinksion wins hands down.  There simply is no way every last Homo Sap will be dead by 2026.  Utter bullshit, he is out of his mind or using it to manipulate females who are depressed about the situation..

RE

Nice dodge of the real issues here.  ;)  Nice effort to keep peddling unproven assertions of manipulation of vulnerable females while ignoring all the harm Foss has caused by peddling polluting crap. Well done.

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #161 on: August 27, 2017, 04:43:11 pm »


Foss is GUILTY as sin of being a world class manipulator. The possible argument on her behalf that she manipulates greedy people instead of the "vulnerable" is a rather strange defense, don'tcha think?

So here we have a mean spirited bit of gossip dressed up in psychobabble while the incredibly mean spirited greed based push by foss and friends to defend the polluting status quo is totally ignored as if that has no bearing on the lives and health of ALL life forms on  this planet.




Well I'll willingly admit that I'm out of the Foss "Automatic Earth" loop.  Last time I read that s h i t Ashvin still had his own blog...as in before he started working for Foss. 

I was just reading AE to try to make sense of economics.  Then I read JMG's The Wealth of Nature and closed the book on the case of economics.  JMG is right about economics and all of that other **** is a bunch of smoke and mirrors in "this is too complicated for the layman to understand" equations and algorithms.  Modern day economics is based entirely on energy.  That is the limiting factor.  Digibits are not limited by anything but energy.  That's why this global economy hinging on BAU will continue until the Earth catches fire, we run out of petroleum, or somebody pushes the nuke button. 

Foss and Guy are both out to make money on collapse issues.  End of story. 

Guy likes to fu ck around on his wife and play S&M with "helpless" females and Foss apparently likes to use assholes like Guy to further her own message.   

Personally I have no tolerance for feminism.  That's an entire other debate though.  However it is tied up in the accusations towards Guy.  I come to his defense just because he's a man, and I think if the liberal feminist had their way we'd all be castrated.  They've been actively setting up a world where men are only needed for sperm banks.  That's bullshit.  Yin and Yang after all.  And what's wrong with a caring mother who stays at home and raises children and keeps a healthy household?  Women have estrogen and oxytocin after all.  They are wired to care about little children and their childish complaints about toys and feelings and attempting to understand the cruel world.  Mom is supposed to hold the child and nurse him, tell him it's all going to be okay, and be a refuse from the cruel world.  Dad is not supposed to do that.  Dad is supposed to kill sh it, sweat his ass off, and protect the nest.  He's supposed to kill something, rip it's guts out, skin it, and feed it to the family.  Touchy feeling doesn't kill an animal and rip it's guts out.   

Sh it...I went off and went on a rant.  I'm just saying...fu ck wearing pink shirts and "feeling" for some dumb bit ch who just got off on some rough little pri cking. 

The bigger issue for me, in this story, is the emasculation of the archetypical father that the feminist are all up in arms about.  They want to cut Zeus's dick off and pretend like he doesn't wield the power of creation with his...ummm...lightning bolt.

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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #162 on: August 27, 2017, 04:44:28 pm »
I never knew Guy was a grief councillor. Now whether he has had sex with his patients is one thing but what these facts demonstrate is he is using his theory as a means of gaining clients for his business. Since there is a monetary as well as emotional incentive towards pushing his narrative one has to wonder how impartial he is when making statements. I never believed his theory on near-term human extinction and took whatever he said with a large pinch of salt. With these revelations I am even less inclined to believe what he says as I can see he is using his theories to make money and take advantage of vulnerable people. Now whether the more extreme accusations of ra pe or even sex are true or not is another matter but what he is doing is quite dubious and unethical... Even if we ignore the more extreme allegations. Now the issue here is there is no direct accusations and it is all insinuated so it is really quite difficult to decide on the veracity of the claims.
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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #163 on: August 27, 2017, 04:45:50 pm »

I don't know much about Guy as a person.  I just know his angle on NTHE, which I disagree with.  However, it appears to me that this is hitting below the belt.  If it's consensual than it's nobodies business accept the participants in the consensual act.  If it's ****, than it's a police matter. 
For a Prophet of Doom, consensual sex is purely a private matter.

If Guy wants to call himself a Grief Counselor, though, he needs to follow their Code of Ethics.  If their code of ethics states that he can't have sexual relations with a current client, then he should have told her that he couldn't be her counselor effectively because he was sexually attracted to her.  Then he would have been free to pursue a relationship with her, if she consented.

With all due respect, that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

AG, with the greatest affection and respect, it IS the matter at hand. JD has framed the issue perfectly. All other agendas, and Foss' role vis a vis energy, are irrelevant to the main issue, which is the Guy is accused of abusing a counselor relationship.

"Why now" remains a valid question, for which I have answer and less interest.

I content myself in knowing that three billion Chinese don't care.


I personally do not like Guy McPherson. I consider him arrogant and totally disagree with his take on evolution and HOW SOON we will go extinct from fouling our nest with suicidal behavior. But he does not now, or ever has, lied about any fo the scientifc studies he cites. In contrast, Foss DOES have a track record of polluting energy ERoEI  bold faced mendacity. 

You may think  I am fixated on the pollution issue and see a pollution defending agenda where there is none. I considered that possibility and, after thinking it through, have rejected it.

You are a knowledgeable writer and know EXACTLY how the propaganda industry "works" and how a hit piece is formulated. You understand  defamatory innuendo and can smell it a mile away.

But HERE you are flat refusing to engage in the key question, Surly. The key question is CUI BONO? This is a DOG WHISTLE for limousine liberal tear jerking distraction!

You don't see that.

You want to stand up and defend vulnerable females everywhere. Me too.

But FOSS DOES NOT GIVE A TINKER'S DAMN ABOUT vulnearble females. Foss is about SHILLING FOR FOSSIL FUELS.

If you wish to claim that Foss's "energy expert" MO has no bearing on this particular issue, I will respectfully continue to disagree. EVERYTHING that Foss does publicly has to do with
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Re: Fossil Fuel Propaganda Modus Operandi
« Reply #164 on: August 27, 2017, 04:49:34 pm »
I never knew Guy was a grief councillor. Now whether he has had sex with his patients is one thing but what these facts demonstrate is he is using his theory as a means of gaining clients for his business. Since there is a monetary as well as emotional incentive towards pushing his narrative one has to wonder how impartial he is when making statements. I never believed his theory on near-term human extinction and took whatever he said with a large pinch of salt. With these revelations I am even less inclined to believe what he says as I can see he is using his theories to make money and take advantage of vulnerable people. Now whether the more extreme accusations of ra pe or even sex are true or not is another matter but what he is doing is quite dubious and unethical... Even if we ignore the more extreme allegations. Now the issue here is there is no direct accusations and it is all insinuated so it is really quite difficult to decide on the veracity of the claims.

I agree with you 100% Monsta. 

Guy is most certainly an ass hole.  If it's all true then he is definitely abusing his power as a "grief counselor" and he's most certainly creating a market for his new certificate of power.  He's doing that to make money.  He's also, if the allegations are true, most certainly doing it to get laid...and if he's married he's a philandering bastard on top of that.  Which...Zeus was the achetypical philandering ass hole...I'll admit...and that's immoral as well, but it doesn't warrant castration of the male role in this world. 

Guy is an ass hole and Foss is a bit ch. 

And so the human tragicomedy continues perpetuating on down through the ages. 

For the record, if Guy did set up the conditions just to take advantage of sensitive females then he definitely deserves public scorn.  However, it's not Foss's job to make sure nobody else suffers from another pretend ra pe pricking at the hands of Dr. Mcstinksion.  How does being vulnerable because you believe we're all going to die in the next couple of years mean that you don't want to fu ck anyways?  What do the two have in relation to one another? 

That's the part I don't get.  You're vulnerable because you are upset that we're all supposedly going to die in the next couple of years?  You're vulnerable about Near Term Human Extinction?!!!  If we're all going to die then we might as well all be fu cking each other!!!!  Why not?  As Walter in The Big Lebowski said so poetically "8 year olds dude."
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