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Author Topic: Pollution  (Read 15769 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: Pollution
« Reply #555 on: August 13, 2017, 04:19:15 pm »
There could be methane releases as well as sulfur dioxide.
I'm limited in my chemistry knowledge, however those two gases are combustible.

Wind mixes it.  It will only vary if there is a feed.  Even if there were no wind diffusion would mix it but that would take a long time.  It is like mixing two fluids, the difference being gases mix themselves.  I always liked the kinetic theory of gases.  So pure simple and satisfying.

I don't have to take this abuse.  I graduated college physics.  Radiant energy from the sun to which the atmosphere is transparent hits the earth and is converted into heat.  Heat is then radiated back out into space but small concentrations of CO2 trap heat photons on the way as to get to outer space many miles of atmosphere must be transversed.  The probability is high that a photon will be trapped and released several times along the way despite a low concentration of atmospheric CO2 because of the large distance involved.  The situation will find and balance about a point where an increase in surface temperature steps up the rate of energy radiated away from the earth so that once again the amount of energy radiated out equals the amount coming in less what plants and solar panels store.  It is always a balanced equation.  With the new balancing point being a hotter earth.  A computer should be able to model the effect just fine which had climate change deniers hearts, souls, and most particularly, brains would be another blow against them.

A part per thousand of CO2 in the air is not going to do twiddly didily squat about spontaneous combustion.  Global warming is a macro phenomena because of the size of the petri dish we live in.  I make a legitimate contribution and the green eyed monster goes apeshit on me seeing a pattern of fires that is most likely random chance.

The above was an excellent example of a straw grasping, arrogant, appeal to authority fallacious debating technique that deliberately dances around K-Dog's woeful denial of the DATA I pointed out to him. Az did not, and I did not, claim that spontaneous combustion is the known cause of all those fires. But K-Dog continues to ridicule the mere POSSIBILITY of it having occurred, and adds a BROWN colored ( ;)) screaming stuffed toy to underline the fact that he will NOT accept ANYTHING comin' from folks like me. Besides the usual racist fun and games which have no place at all in this discussion, but racists like to use to undermine the argument of an opponent of color, the issue that K-Dog does NOT want to address, is the connection of Global Warming with the Burning of Fossil Fuels. So, he arm waves in as many slightly, but mostly insignificant, distracting relevant directions as possible. K-Dog is a Bad Doggie but he ain't stupid. 

The "pattern of fires" CO2 PPM HIGH Concentrations I pointed out to him is NOT "random chance". If he had bothered to look all over the globe, he would have learned that uttering that added bit of ignorance makes him look rather silly. K-Dog has much confusion in his head about the physics of gases. He probably learned about molecular diffusion, Brownian movement and such in college, which both tend to scatter molecules of gases and liquids until they are thoroughly and proportionately mixed. That leads K-Dog to the incorrect assumption that gases do not concentrate appreciably anywhere in the atmosphere.

You see, depending on their HEIGHT (i.e. atmospheric pressure variances and wind velocities affect both dispersion and concentration of gases) above the surface of the earth, gases VARY in the amount they diffuse equally in the atmosphere. But K-Dog, if he has been exposed to that info, passes it off as irrelevant to his ass-u-me-ption that gases MUST be equally distributed because, "that's what he learned in physics". If that's all K-Dog learned about how gases diffuse, K-Dog had a lousy teacher!



2017-08-07 - High-rise five-star hotel damaged by fire in the Marina District in coastal Dubai (UAE):
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-dubai-fire-idUKKBN1AN0NM
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-08/07/c_136506202.htm
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/world/fire-breaks-out-in-dubai-hotel-no-casualties-reported/448532.html


http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/third-dubai-fire-in-days-forces-evacuation-of-hotel-near-marina-district-1734463
http://zeenews.india.com/world/fire-breaks-out-in-dubai-hotel-marina-third-blaze-within-a-week-2030861.html
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2017/08/07/Fire-breaks-out-again-in-Dubai-Marina-third-blaze-in-a-week.html
http://gulfbusiness.com/fire-breaks-out-movenpick-jbr/

Quote: "A fire erupted at a Dubai five-star hotel in the Marina tourist hotspot on Monday, with no casualties or injuries reported. The fire in Movenpick Jumeirah Beach Residence (JBR) Hotel, which was quickly brought under control, was the third blaze in less than a week in Dubai, reports Xinhua news agency."

Quote: "On Sunday, another minor fire occurred on a balcony at the Tiger Tower, causing the building to be evacuated. No injuries were reported. It followed a massive blaze across the road at Torch Tower early on Friday morning the second time the 86-floor building has caught fire in two years."

Note: So three high-rise fires in four days in Dubai, plus some vehicle fires too...


Great catch! 

What I find amazing about the Dubai fires is that, even though high ambient temperatures always aid in spontaneous combustion, the CO2 levels there are very high, which tends to inhibit combustion. This link is to a continuosly updated global graphic data set for temperatures, GHG levels, jet stream, ocean currents, wave heights, etc.

I just went over there right now. The CO2 level in Dubai is 407 PPM. Of course that is peanuts compared to the area in Canada I just checked out where there is a lot of fire (and tar sands piggery). THAT area has 446 PPM of CO2!  :o :P

I have a hard time believing that atmospheric concentrations of CO2 which are always well below a tenth of one percent (for now) can possible be a significant modulator of spontaneous combustion.   A tenth of one percent is 1000 ppm.  Temperature has a far more significant effect.  Things which are not really comparable can''t balance each other out.  Temperature impacts the rate of chemical reactions which are the very causes of spontaneous combustion.  CO2 will only displace a tiny amount of oxygen and trying to measure the difference CO2 does cause would be very difficult.

Science could prove me wrong but I doubt it.  Besides which the overall concentration of CO2 can't possibly vary much from place to place.


K-Dog, WHY do you have such difficulties reading what is written (by me )?

Yes, of course the ambient temperature, AS I POINTED OUT, is the main issue in spontaneous combustion. But, lo and behold, CO2 molecules, even in teeny tiny amounts, TRAP HEAT, don't they, K-Dog? So, ANY added amount of CO2 contributes to INCREASE the ambient temperature somewhat. So your claim that the "relatively tiny" increase in CO2 concentration is "irrelevant" to spontaneous combustion, if that is what is indeed going on in Dubai, is scientifically inaccurate because any amount of heat increase is relevant to enabling spontaneous combustion. Please do not lecture me on the energy of activation needed to initiate an exothermic chemical reaction. Anyone with a science background (as well as anybody with common sense) knows that combustion is one of those chemcial reactions that just happens to occur much easier when it is hotter out there.

A tiny amount of CO2 PPM increase (as opposed to all the other atmospheric gases), as this graphic from a lecture by an IPCC scientist clearly states, causes a HUGE increase in atmospheric heating. If YOU do not think a 10 PPM CO2 increase is a large amount, then you are in error.


And I also POINTED OUT that the CO2 level in Dubai is PEANUTS compared with Canada where some fires and tar sands piggery is going on.

If you had been objective, you might have mentioned the one thing I missed (on any of those fires that started in daylight hours, of course). That is, that reflection from glass surfaces on skyscrapers might have aided in combustion on other buildings. I missed that one. So did you.

K-Dog SAID, "Besides which the overall concentration of CO2 can't possibly vary much from place to place."

It is clear that you are NOT in the know about how MUCH CO2 PPM (and CO PPM, by the way) concentrations vary from place to place.

After you go to the site at this link, you may admit at your leisure that SCIENCE just proved you wrong on that incorrect assumption (not just Agelbert  ;D ). No need to rush to admit your error, K-Dog. I understand that you have always been rather reticent to admit  I am right about anything.  ;)

But if you don't admit it within 24 hours, I will return to this thread with screen shots of CO, CO2, SO2, and maybe some particulate matter concentrations in different parts of the globe DIRECTLY CAUSED by the BURNING OF FOSSIL FUELS, which are the irrefutable cause of Global Warming caused Catastrophic Climate change (for you to try to talk your way around).

Dinner is served, K-dog:




K-Dog, your 24 hours are up.


As predicted, Mr. ARROGANCE INCORPORATED, K-Dog, refuses to admit that he is WRONG. WRONG and, in case I forgot to mention it, WRONG.   

Quote
K-Dog SAID, "Besides which the overall concentration of CO2 can't possibly vary much from place to place."  

The following screen shot is from  this link. Those readers who, unlike the bad Doggie K-Dog, respect objective scientific data, instead of splitting irrelevant hairs about "random readings" or "faulty climate models" or using pejorative (see: diddly squat - darn! that sounds just like the fossil fueler MKing!), may wish to peruse our sad climate situation. Please pass it on, but not to closet defenders of the fossil fuel polluting status quo like K-Dog.     

Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

 

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