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Author Topic: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️  (Read 34656 times)

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AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #600 on: July 05, 2016, 08:24:48 pm »
Ice Free Arctic? Professor Peter Wadhams explains the dire situation in the arctic.
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #601 on: July 05, 2016, 10:37:59 pm »
Crazy Weather and the Arctic Meltdown: Dr Jennifer Francis
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #602 on: July 06, 2016, 09:09:38 pm »
Crazy Weather and the Arctic Meltdown: Dr Jennifer Francis


My point of contention here is that the melting is coming from a warmer land mass from underneath.

as well as a warmer atmosphere.



Az,
The issue for you is that warming from below may be contributing as much or more than atmospheric warming caused by the burning of fossil fuels (i.e. CO2  pollution).

I wish that was true. Overwhelmingly, the culprit here is CO2 pollution. CO2 pollution is an existential threat to humanity and several thousand other macroscopic species in our biosphere. We are not talking about a 60/40 split in warming action. We are talking about over 99% CO2 caused warming versus less than 1% warming from below. 

I know you don't agree with that, but that is what the scientific consensus has concluded. I just ask you to look at the evidence below.

I am sure you remember the fossil fuel industry propaganda that a "pause" in global warming had occurred for about ten years after the year 2000.

A statistical analysis of the warming in the atmosphere was done for the last several decades in order to extract non-human causative factors. The purpose of that exercise was to see exactly what the trend was sans natural effects like volcanic activity (e. g. Pinatubo eruption caused temporary cooling) and the geothermal warming from beneath the land masses that you are concerned with.

When they did that, the alleged "plateau" where the "global warming stopped" for about a decade after 2000 (that the fossil fuel industry pushed all over the media and Congress - Snowleopard  and MKing pushed it here) was shown to be a cherry picked fraud.

Furthermore, with the natural background effects stripped out, the atmospheric increased warming effects from CO2 pollution stood out glaringly as the exclusive cause of the INCREASE in oceanic and atmospheric warming.

WHY?

Because the others remained in a range of variability with no significant up or down trend.

Dr. Francis shows a bar chart produced by the insurance industry of the total infrastructure destruction in human civilization over several decades. This is used by actuaries to determine risk and price the premiums for property insurance.


Geophysical events (Earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, etc.) certainly are a huge concern for insurance companies. But the bottom line is that their MAIN concern is the atmospheric caused extreme weather events.

WHY?

Because atmospheric caused extreme weather events, unlike the geophysical caused extreme events, are increasing

Persistent weather patterns are THE cause of the increase in extreme weather events.

The following graphic shows various sites in Alaska where evidence of permafrost warming, due to a warmer atmosphere, not warming from below (those areas are not volcanic or geothermal hot spots), has been measured.


The ocean heat increase is a function of CO2 pollution, not warming from below. Yes, there are volcanoes on the sea floor. But the amount of heat now being reflected back into the oceans from the IR CO2 and water vapor GHG blanket is over 99% of the scientifically measured increase in ocean heat.


All the above cause Persistent Weather Patterns .
 
As Dr. Francis points out, CO2 pollution that causes global warming is THE reason for Persistent Weather Patterns.


The cause of global warming and the crazy weather it brings is not limited to CO2 pollution. But all the other contributing factors to Earth's climate like volcanic activity and warming from beneath are, according to the scientific consensus and the insurance companies that pay VERY close attention to what may damage insured property, not statistically increasing significantly. 

Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #603 on: July 06, 2016, 09:40:22 pm »
Pramila Jayapal for Congress!
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #604 on: July 08, 2016, 03:26:26 pm »


In June, Record Heat in America and All-Time Low Ice Extent in Arctic

June was the warmest on record since 1895 in the United States, with a monthly average temperature of 71.8°F in Lower 48 states, 3.3°F above normal.


According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, there have also been eight weather and climate disasters with losses exceeding $1 billion each in the first half of the year – a combination of severe storms and massive flooding.



In the Arctic, sea ice extent plunged 100,000 sq. miles below the previous record low set in June 2010, the National Snow and Ice Data Center showed.


The sea ice extent was 525,000 sq. miles below the 1981-2010 long-term average. From mid-June onwards, ice cover reduced 70 percent faster than typical rate of ice loss, at an average rate of 29,000 sq. miles a day. (Guardian, AP, Washington Post $, The Hill, Bloomberg, Climate Central, Guardian, Washington Post $)


No ice in shallow water off the continental shelf, no Walruses. GET IT?




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AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #605 on: July 08, 2016, 08:08:08 pm »

Nepartak Causes Devastation in Taiwan

Super typhoon Nepartak made landfall on the east coast of Taiwan on Friday morning with winds of 145 mph and intense rains lashing the region.

The category 4 typhoon caused at least two deaths and injured 72 others in Taitung in southeastern Taiwan, with power outages affecting 360,000 homes.

Residents have reported roofs being ripped off buildings, cars overturning and trees being uprooted. The typhoon has been downgraded to a category 2 storm as it heads to China but will still bring heavy rain to the country that has been experiencing torrential rain with flooding.

Quote
The dramatic intensification of the storm over the last three days was fueled by unusually warm seas, potentially linked to global warming.

(News: New York Times $, Focus Taiwan, CNN, Guardian, TIME, Popular Science. Background: Climate Signals)


Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #606 on: July 08, 2016, 08:15:27 pm »
National Snow and Ice Data Center Arctic Sea Ice DECLINE Extent Update

Extent loss slows, then merges back into fast lane
July 6, 2016   
 
Quote
June set another satellite-era record low for average sea ice extent, despite slower than average rates of ice loss.

The slow rate of ice loss reflects the prevailing atmospheric pattern, with low pressure centered over the central Arctic Ocean and lower than average temperatures over the Beaufort Sea.

Monthly June ice extent for 1979 to 2016 shows a decline of 3.7% per decade. Credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center


Detailed article:

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/


Agelbert NOTE: An ice free arctic will accelerate ocean warming (resulting in more frequent extreme weather events caused by more intense and frequent El Niño type atmospheric warming - an EL Niño is an oceanic mechanism for offloading excess heat into the atmosphere).

A warmer ocean will exacerbate acidification damage and increase coral reef destruction. 





Fossil fuel industry RESPONSE to all the above:
 


« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 08:41:42 pm by AGelbert »
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #607 on: July 09, 2016, 06:14:24 pm »
National Snow and Ice Data Center Arctic Sea Ice DECLINE Extent Update

Extent loss slows, then merges back into fast lane
July 6, 2016   
 
Quote
June set another satellite-era record low for average sea ice extent, despite slower than average rates of ice loss.

The slow rate of ice loss reflects the prevailing atmospheric pattern, with low pressure centered over the central Arctic Ocean and lower than average temperatures over the Beaufort Sea.

Monthly June ice extent for 1979 to 2016 shows a decline of 3.7% per decade. Credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center


Detailed article:

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/


Agelbert NOTE: An ice free arctic will accelerate ocean warming (resulting in MORE El Niño type atmospheric warming). A warmer ocean will exacerbate acidification damage and increase coral reef destruction. 





Fossil fuel industry RESPONSE to all the above:
 


Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #608 on: July 10, 2016, 05:43:26 pm »
National Snow and Ice Data Center Arctic Sea Ice DECLINE Extent Update

Extent loss slows, then merges back into fast lane
July 6, 2016   
 
Monthly June ice extent for 1979 to 2016 shows a decline of 3.7% per decade. Credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center


Detailed article:

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/


Agelbert NOTE: An ice free arctic will accelerate ocean warming (resulting in MORE El Niño type atmospheric warming). A warmer ocean will exacerbate acidification damage and increase coral reef destruction. 





Fossil fuel industry RESPONSE to all the above:
 

Agelbert NOTE: An ice free arctic will accelerate ocean warming (resulting in more frequent extreme weather events caused by more intense and frequent El Niño type atmospheric warming - an EL Niño is an oceanic mechanism for offloading excess heat into the atmosphere).

Playing devil's advocate here but some people argue that Arctic sea ice melt is not a problem because ice levels in Antarctica are growing. In fact according to NASA the amount of ice in Antarctica is growing and is at its highest level. This would seem - at least on surface - to contradict the global warming hypothesis. Indeed this fact is often used by climate change deniers to negate the claims of mainstream scientists. What would be your counterargument against this observation?

Quote
MONSTA SAID: "In fact according to NASA the amount of ice in Antarctica is growing and is at its highest level.

The Global Warming "Hypothesis"!!!!? You are either insane or are you in the science challenged, fossil fuel industry funded DENIER camp that pretends there is a "debate" in order to delay addressing the problem. 

Your pretense of "objectivity" is a typical "emulate to undermine" propaganda technique where you are, oh so friendly and willing to discuss this and that as a pal of the opponent while you use Orwellian discourse to undermine the scientific consensus. How unethically clever of you.

But your BULLSHIT about Antarctic Ice is a rather threadbare bit of DENIER based propaganda (attempting to push the lie with cherry picked info from NASA that LEAVES OUT other pertinent NASA info) that has been debunked YEARS AGO.

The Ice is MELTING at BOTH POLES facts:

Quote

"Since 2003, Greenland has lost on average more than 600 trillion pounds of ice a year and that affects the way the Earth wobbles in a manner similar to a figure skater lifting one leg while spinning.

Think of it as a billion trucks each year dumping ice out of Greenland. On top of that, West Antarctica loses 275 trillion pounds of ice and East Antarctica gains about 165 trillion pounds of ice yearly." - NASA scientist Eirk Ivins

Monst claims, true to his chosen handle   , to be playing Devil's Advocate. Well, I don't think he is playing. I think he is A LIAR.

Monsta, YOU ARE A LIAR!

SHAME on you.     


Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #609 on: July 11, 2016, 01:56:40 am »
Which emits more carbon dioxide: volcanoes or human activities?

Author: Michon Scott, Rebecca Lindsey.

June 15, 2016

Human activities emit 60 or more times the amount of carbon dioxide released by volcanoes each year. Large, violent eruptions may match the rate of human emissions for the few hours that they last, but they are too rare and fleeting to rival humanity’s annual emissions. In fact, several individual U.S. states emit more carbon dioxide in a year than all the volcanoes on the planet combined do.

On the scale of carbon dioxide emissions, human sources far outweigh volcanoes. NOAA Climate.gov cartoon by Emily Greenhalgh.


Human activities

Human activities—mostly burning of coal and other fossil fuels, but also cement production, deforestation and other landscape changes—emitted roughly 40 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide in 2015. Since the start of the Industrial Revolution, more than 2,000 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide have been added to the atmosphere by human activities according to the Global Carbon Project.

Since the start of the Industrial Revolution, human emissions of carbon dioxide from fossil fuels and cement production (green line) have risen to more than 35 billion metric tons per year, while volcanoes (purple line) produce less than 1 billion metric tons annually. NOAA Climate.gov graph, based on data from the Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) at the DOE's Oak Ridge National Laboratory and Burton et al., 2013.

Volcanoes

Volcanoes emit carbon dioxide in two ways: during eruptions and through underground magma. Carbon dioxide from underground magma is released through vents, porous rocks and soils, and water that feeds volcanic lakes and hot springs. Estimates of global carbon dioxide emissions from volcanoes have to take both erupted and non-erupted sources into account.

Mount Merapi degassing (picture at article link)
Much of the carbon dioxide released by volcanoes is emitted by degassing of subterranean magma when the volcano is not erupting. In this photo, volcanic gases and steam rise from Mount Merapi, Indonesia, on May 20, 2012. Creative Commons license by Jimmy McIntyre.

In a 2011 peer-reviewed paper, U.S. Geologic Survey scientist Terry Gerlach summarized five previous estimates of global volcanic carbon dioxide emission rates that had been published between 1991 and 1998. Those estimates incorporated studies reaching back to the 1970s, and they were based on a wide variety of measurements, such as direct sampling and satellite remote sensing. The global estimates fell within a range of about 0.3 ± 0.15 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide per year, implying that human carbon dioxide emissions were more than 90 times greater than global volcanic carbon dioxide emissions.

Mount Saint Helens erupting (picture at article link)
On May 18, 1980, Mount Saint Helens experienced an explosive eruption, sending a column of ash, steam, and gases up to 60,000 feet above sea level. For about nine hours, carbon dioxide emissions from the volcano may have matched human emissions, but such massive eruptions are rare and fleeting. U.S. Geological Survey photo by Robert Krimmel.

In 2013, another group of scientists—Michael Burton, Georgina Sawyer, and Domenico Granieri—published an updated estimate using more data on carbon dioxide emissions from subsurface magma that had become available in the years since the last global estimate. While acknowledging a large range of variability in the estimates, the authors concluded that the best overall estimate was about 0.6 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide per year.

While higher than Gerlach's estimate, the figure is still just a fraction of carbon dioxide output from human activities. Gerlach remarked via email, “Taken at face value, their result implies that anthropogenic CO2 exceeds global volcanic CO2 by at least a factor of 60 times.”

Occasionally, eruptions are powerful enough to release carbon dioxide at a rate that matches or even exceeds the global rate of human emissions for a few hours. For example, Gerlach estimated that the eruptions of Mount St. Helens (1980) and Pinatubo (1991) both released carbon dioxide on a scale similar to human output for about nine hours. Human emissions of carbon dioxide continue day after day, month after month, year after year.

Today versus the past

Volcanic activity today may pale in comparison to the carbon dioxide emissions we are generating by burning fossil fuels for energy, but over the course of geologic time, volcanoes have occasionally contributed to global warming by producing significant amounts of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases.

For example, some geologists hypothesize that 250 million years ago, an extensive flood of lava poured continually from the ground in Siberia perhaps hundreds of thousands of years. This large-scale, long-lasting eruption likely raised global temperatures enough to cause one of the worst extinction events in our planet's history. Current volcanic activity doesn't occur on the same massive scale.

Climate cooling *

Today, rather than warming global climate, volcanic eruptions often have the opposite effect. That's because carbon dioxide isn't the only thing that volcanoes inject into the atmosphere. Even small eruptions often produce volcanic ash and aerosol particles. **

Double Aerosol Layer from Pinatubo eruption (picture at article link)
Taken by astronauts from the Space Shuttle in early August 1991, this photo of the Earth's limb shows the double layer of volcanic aerosol particles (interpretation from Self et al., 1999) that spread through the stratosphere following the catastrophic eruption of Mt. Pinatubo. Encircling the globe at altitudes even higher than the tops of thunderstorm clouds, the particles reflected so much incoming sunlight that global surface temperatures cooled off for two years. Photo courtesy NASA JSC's Gateway to Astronaut Photography of the Earth.

Whether from small or large eruptions, volcanic aerosols reflect sunlight back into space, cooling global climate. The 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora produced enough ash and aerosols to cancel summer in Europe and North America in 1816.

References

Boden, T.A., Marland, G., Andres, R.J. (2015). Global, Regional, and National Fossil-Fuel CO2 Emissions, Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, U.S. Department of Energy, Oak Ridge, Tenn., U.S.A.

Burton, M.R., Sawyer, G.M., Granieri, D. (2013). Deep carbon emissions from volcanoes. Reviews in Mineralogy and Geochemistry, 75, 323–354.

Cook, J. (2015). Do volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans? Skeptical Science. Accessed May 11, 2016.

Gerlach, T. (2011). Volcanic versus anthropogenic carbon dioxide. EOS, 92(24), 201–202.

Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. (2007, February 20). Which produces more CO2, volcanic or human activity? U.S. Geological Survey. Accessed May 11, 2016.

Houghton, R.A., van der Werf, G.R., DeFries, R.S., Hansen, M.C., House, J.I., Le Quéré, C., Pongratz, J., Ramankutty, N. (2012). Chapter G2 Carbon emissions from land use and land-cover change, Biogeosciences, 9, 5125-514.

IPCC. (2014). Summary for Policymakers. In: Climate Change 2014: Mitigation of Climate Change. Contribution of Working Group  III to the Fifth Assessment Report  of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate  Change [Edenhofer, O., R. Pichs-Madruga, Y. Sokona, E. Farahani, S. Kadner, K. Seyboth, A. Adler, I. Baum, S. Brunner, P. Eickemeier, B. Kriemann, J. Savolainen, S. Schlömer, C. von Stechow, T. Zwickel and J.C. Minx (eds.)]. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, United Kingdom and New York, NY, USA.

Le Quéré, et al. (2015). Global Carbon Budget 2015, Earth Syst. Sci. Data, 7, 349–396, doi:10.5194/essd-7-349-2015, 2015.

Oskin, B. (2013, December 12). Earth's Greatest Killer Finally Caught. LiveScience.

Ridley, D. A., Solomon, S., Barnes, J. E., Burlakov, V. D. (2015). Total volcanic stratospheric aerosol optical depths and implications for global climate change. Geophysical Research Letters, 41, 7763–7769.

Self, S., Zhao, J-X., Holasek, R., Torres, R., and King, A. (1999). The Atmospheric Impact of the 1991 Mount Pinatubo Eruption. [Online] U.S. Geological Survey Website. http://pubs.usgs.gov/pinatubo/self/ Accessed June 16, 2016.

University Corporation for Atmospheric Research. (2012). Mount Tambora and the Year Without a Summer. Accessed May 11, 2016.

Understanding Evolution. Volcanic activity and mass extinction. Accessed May 12, 2016.

U.S. Energy Information Administration. Total Energy. Accessed May 11, 2016.


https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/which-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities

Agelbert NOTES: * The aerosol particles from volcanic eruptions have temporarily SLOWED the RATE of temperature increase due to GHG pollution. To call THAT "cooling" is a misnomer.

**In the temperature and CO2 concentration graph below that Mt Washington (1980) and Pinatubo (1991) DID NOT "cool" the atmosphere. They were a blip on the inexorable temperature increase due to GHG pollution.






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AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #610 on: July 11, 2016, 02:46:14 pm »
Agelbert NOTE: This is a cross post from the Doomstead Diner Forum. I am referring to the diner when I say "here".  8)

This is what I mean about contradictory information:

Quote from: Maria-José Viñas from NASA's Earth Science News Team
According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008.

"We're essentially in agreement with other studies that show an increase in ice discharge in the Antarctic Peninsula and the Thwaites and Pine Island region of West Antarctica," said Jay Zwally, a glaciologist with NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and lead author of the study, which was published on Oct. 30 in the Journal of Glaciology. "Our main disagreement is for East Antarctica and the interior of West Antarctica – there, we see an ice gain that exceeds the losses in the other areas."  Zwally added that his team "measured small height changes over large areas, as well as the large changes observed over smaller areas."[/
quote]

Check the link in question for quote: http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses

What you DELIBERATELY do not wish to understand, is that this NOT about a "DEBATE" on whether global warming is a "hypothesis" or not. Of course the DENIERS wish to make it appear that their IS a "debate". YOU are, by the last three posts, doing EXACTLY THAT.  

Since you are an Admin here, I cannot delete your propaganda disguised as "objective" debate.

So, I will, as RE never fails to remind me, have to LIVE WITH IT.


Okay, let us begin, Mr. Monsta.

You stated that you merely wish to clarify the Antarctic growth "FACT". You did not, as you DID when mentioning global warming, call that a "hypothesis". SO, anyone reading WHAT YOU WROTE would immediately, while ignoring an entire post covering MANY global warming issues and fact I had just laboriously published, AS-U-ME that global warming is a "hypothesis" and Antarctic Ice increase is a "fact". DON'T PRETEND YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF THAT BIASED PHRASEOLOGY ON YOUR PART.

Let's pretend, just for the hell of it, that we aren't talking about global warming. Let's pretend that the only issue here is Antarctic Ice. And mind you, we HAVE TO DO THAT in order to discus objectively what you claim is a "fact".  The REASON for that is that the TOTAL amount of ice mass on the LAND MASS of this forking planet is  declining.

But, as I said, let's stick with Antarctica and not mention Greenland and umpteen land glaciers with ice melt decline (that YOU failed to bring up when you mentioned Antarctic ice "growth" as a "valid" argument by the deniers).


Here are the facts on that NASA study you linked:

[/size]
Quote
What's Going on in Antartica?

According to this study, the gains in ice from increased precipitation in the continent's interior, particularly across the East Antarctic Ice Sheet, is enough to offset the melting occurring in the West Antarctic and Antarctic Peninsula.

However, the study does not contradict the troubling trends seen in Western Antarctica where there has been widespread loss of ice along the Bellingshausen and Amundsen Seas
.

And what this study really illustrates is how difficult it is for scientists to measure small changes in ice
. Fortunately, NASA is developing new tools—due to launch in 2018—that will help scientists more accurately measure long-term ice changes in Antarctica.


The research on this continues, but is hardly a reason for not taking action on climate today.

http://www.ecowatch.com/whats-going-on-in-antarctica-is-the-ice-melting-or-growing-1882118412.html

Now the above analysis will be USED by the DENIERS, to NOT justify radical action (i.e. PHASE OUT the burning of your beloved Fossil fuels) to ameliorate catastrophic climate change.

IOW, they will TRY to claim there is a "debate", as you are doing here.   

This is unethical cherry picking  of the most dastardly sort that favors foot dragging on behalf of the dirty energy producers.   

SO, if you truly are OBJECTIVE on the issue of Global Warming in general and total planetary ice mass, both on land and in the ocean, in particular, you will stop taking a study about Antarctic ice (that is itself inconclusive and subject to review) out of PLANETWIDE context.

That is precisely what you did. Stop doing that. You NEVER post here agreeing that radical action must be engaged in to stop global warming. You only show up to question a post that underlines the danger of global warming. That is evidence of your bias FOR the fossil fuel industry and AGAINST radical action to phase out fossil fuels in order to give the next generation a chance to survive, REGARDLESS of your claims to the contrary.

All that said, I am quite willing to go into excruciating detail about glaciers, Antarctica, Greenland and floating ice everywhere. But I will NOT accept ANY a priori allegation that global warming is a "hypothesis".

Global Warming is an existential threat to most macroscopic species of land and sea vertebrates in general and humans in particular.

Global Warming is NOT a "hypothesis". The existential threat it presents may be a hypothesis, but it is NOT a "debatable" one, according to the scientific community.  Anyone that claims that is not the scientific consensus is a suicidal fool or a tool of the fossil fuel industry :iamwithstupid:  (which is the same thing).

Have a nice day.
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AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #611 on: July 11, 2016, 02:49:23 pm »
Thanks for that explanation agelbert. It is as I thought: even if we assume that ice is growing in Antarctica (which is not certain by itself) it does not dispute the trend of overall global warming as Antarctica is only a region and regional differences are not reflective of the overall global trend. For example whilst there is growth in the south pole it is not enough to offset ice melt in the Arctic. Moreover even NASA itself stated that growth trends in the Antarctica is likely to reverse in the near future and does even state the business of measuring growth/melt is a complex one.

I know I have been a bit hard in driving a point home but it is important to tackle common counter-arguments as there are many people out there (and I feel these sceptics are growing). It is easier to do that if you can speak with confidence and that confidence does not come if you are unsure yourself. Like I said earlier, there is some conflicting information out there. Not all of us are experts to confidently shift the wheat from the chaff hence the question and acting as devil's advocate.

Also sorry about using the term "global warming hypothesis" I mistakenly used the incorrect term. What I should have used is the term scientific theory so I apologise there. As further clarification you got to remember that I am firm believer in limits to growth and part of limits to growth is believing that growth at some point stops due to some limiting factor be it energy/resource depletion or excess pollution of which global warming is a subset of excess pollution. So to believe in limits is to believe in global warming.

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AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #612 on: July 11, 2016, 02:54:51 pm »
Thanks for that explanation agelbert. It is as I thought: even if we assume that ice is growing in Antarctica (which is not certain by itself) it does not dispute the trend of overall global warming as Antarctica is only a region and regional differences are not reflective of the overall global trend. For example whilst there is growth in the south pole it is not enough to offset ice melt in the Arctic. Moreover even NASA itself stated that growth trends in the Antarctica is likely to reverse in the near future and does even state the business of measuring growth/melt is a complex one.

I know I have been a bit hard in driving a point home but it is important to tackle common counter-arguments as there are many people out there (and I feel these sceptics are growing). It is easier to do that if you can speak with confidence and that confidence does not come if you are unsure yourself. Like I said earlier, there is some conflicting information out there. Not all of us are experts to confidently shift the wheat from the chaff hence the question and acting as devil's advocate.

Also sorry about using the term "global warming hypothesis" I mistakenly used the incorrect term. What I should have used is the term scientific theory so I apologise there. As further clarification you got to remember that I am firm believer in limits to growth and part of limits to growth is believing that growth at some point stops due to some limiting factor be it energy/resource depletion or excess pollution of which global warming is a subset of excess pollution. So to believe in limits is to believe in global warming.

You are welcome. I accept your apology. 

As to the population issue, I ask you to always remember that 17% problem. Because of the GREED of that 17%, killing off the other 83% (about 6 billion people) will reduce the resource consumption by only 20%. THAT will NOT save the  biosphere from catastrophic climate change.

This graphic is probably dated. It is quite possible that less than 10% of the human greedballs at the 'might is right,' Predators 'R' US top now consume 80% of available resources.

 

This graphic is also somewhat dated, but the resource consumption disconnect with population size is rather obvious.




I have a hypothesis as to the root of that problem: Humanity's failure to adopt altruism as its guiding principle in favor of 'might is right' based greed is the underlying cause of the unsustainability of our "civilization".

Monsta, I do not think that a mass die off of the poorest 6 billion people n the planet will put a dent in the human industrial piggery degrading the biosphere.

If, as many here at the diner assume (and some even celebrate!      ), the 'greed is good' mindset is hardwired into humanity, then we really are doomed.


It REALLY WAS a good ride, not for you and me, but for TPTB. So expect them to do WHATEVER to prolong their RIDE, against all scientific evidence that EXPLOITATION WITHOUT REFLECTION OF FELLOW EARTHLINGS OF ALL SPECIES (not just humans) AND THE BIOSPHERE FOR PROFIT OVER PLANET is deleterious (i.e. SUICIDAL/abysmally STUPID) to the Homo SAP species.
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #613 on: July 15, 2016, 02:33:23 pm »
Hat tip to Knarf.     



'This reshuffle risks dropping climate change from the policy agenda altogether—a staggering act of negligence for which we will all pay the price'.

Less than a day after becoming the U.K.'s unelected leader, Prime Minister Theresa  May closed the government's climate change office, a move instantly condemned as "shocking" and "plain stupid."

May shuttered the Department for Energy and Climate Change (DECC) on Thursday and moved responsibility for the environment to a new Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy. The decision comes the same week as the U.K. government's own advisers warned in a report that the nation was not ready for the inevitable consequences of climate change, including deadly heat waves and food and water shortages.

"This is shocking news. Less than a day into the job and it appears that the new prime minister has already downgraded action to tackle climate change, one of the biggest threats we face," said Craig Bennett, CEO of the environmental group Friends of the Earth. "This week the government's own advisors warned of ever growing risks to our businesses, homes and food if we don't do more to cut fossil fuel pollution."

Bennett wrote in an op-ed for the Independent:

    Now, with Theresa May in power, we are looking for a clear commitment to policies that will put the country on track to meeting out Climate Change Act goals and to delivering the Paris climate change Agreement to keep global temperature rises to 1.5 degrees But there is no department directly responsible for this.   ;)


    [....] Time is running out to avert catastrophic climate change and to halt the decline of nature. This is about protecting people as well as the planet we live on. There is no time to lose for the new prime minister in changing path—and, thanks to David Cameron, so much time has already been lost.

Caroline Lucas, the Green Party's sole Member of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons, tweeted that the move was "a serious backwards step" and told the Independent, "The decision to shut down DECC is a deeply worrying move from Theresa May. Climate change is the biggest challenge we face, and it must not be an afterthought for the government."

May also made several controversial appointments to her new post-Brexit cabinet, including naming her one-time rival for prime minister, Andrea Leadsom  , as Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

Leadsom
in 2015 served as Minister for Energy at the Department of Energy and Climate Change, during which she reportedly asked officials whether climate change was real.
   

Environmental groups were distressed. Greenpeace executive director John Sauven said Thursday, "The voting record and affiliation with climate skeptics of key cabinet appointees are deeply worrying. They show a lack of understanding posed by climate change to the UK and the world."

"If we are to continue to have a key global role in environmental action, we need urgent reassurance from the new government that the hard won progress on climate and renewables targets, air pollution, and the protection of wildlife will not be sidelined or abandoned in the Brexit negotiations," Sauven said.

And it was not just the advocacy sector that slammed the decision.

Former Labour leader Ed Miliband tweeted, "DECC abolition just plain stupid. Climate not even mentioned in new [department] title. Matters because departments shape priorities, shape outcomes."

Stephen Devlin, an environmental economist at the New Economics Foundation, released a press statement titled "We Can't Afford to Scrap DECC" wherein he described May's action as "a terrible move" and said it "signals a troubling de-prioritization of climate change by this government."

"This reshuffle risks dropping climate change from the policy agenda altogether—a staggering act of negligence for which we will all pay the price," Devlin said.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/07/15/shocking-plain-stupid-theresa-may-shuts-climate-change-office[/size]
From Theresa May,  Andrea Leadsom and the dirty energy producers in the U. K. to YOU.


Agelbert NOTE: "Dropping" climate change from government policy is the wet dream of the profit over planet bastards all over the planet. But those, like me, in the reality based community, know that you CANNOT "externalize" catastrophic climate change.

Reality WILL bite the U.K. VERY HARD for this abysmally stupid behavior. It will be amusing, in a gallows humor sort of way, to watch Catastrophic Climate Change DROP the non-Scottish part of the U.K. to third world status in the next decade.

Scotland will be attacked by Theresa May and her Leadsom GOONS for its stance on Renewable Energy. Scotland will prevail.
 



Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

AGelbert

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Re: 🚩 Global Climate Chaos ☠️
« Reply #614 on: July 15, 2016, 06:43:20 pm »
Algae are melting away the Greenland ice sheet

'Black and Bloom' project explores how microorganisms help to determine the pace of Arctic melting.
Alexandra Witze
 
15 July 2016

Algae that live on snow and ice produce a kaleidoscope of colours. Jason Edwards/NGC

Researchers are fanning out across the Greenland ice sheet this month to explore a crucial, but overlooked, influence on its future: red, green and brown-coloured algal blooms. These darken the snow and ice, causing it to absorb more sunlight and melt faster.

The £3-million (US$4-million) Black and Bloom project aims to measure how algae are changing how much sunlight Greenland’s ice sheet bounces back into space. “We want to get a handle on just how much of the darkness is due to microbes and how much to other physical factors”, such as soot or mineral dust, says Martyn Tranter, a biogeochemist at the University of Bristol, UK, and the project’s principal investigator.

Team scientists arrived near Kangerlussuaq, Greenland, this week for 6 weeks of observations. The work will continue for two more summers, exploring different parts of the ice sheet. Ultimately, the scientists hope to develop the first deep understanding of  how biological processes affect Greenland’s reflectivity.

From these results, climate modellers should be able to improve their estimates of how the ice sheet  —  which contains enough water to raise sea levels by seven metres — is likely to melt in the coming decades. The past several years, as well as the current one, have seen temperature and melting records set across Greenland.

Black and Bloom will provide “a one-of-a-kind dataset” to help researchers better understand Greenland's future, says Marco Tedesco, a geophysicist at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, New York.

Tranter adds that the work could also affect predictions of water supplies in other areas, such as the Himalayas, where algal blooms dot water-producing glaciers.


Summer party

For decades, most studies on Greenland microbiology focused on cryoconite holes, small pits on the surface of the ice sheet that are filled with dark organic matter and ice-adapted algae. But enormous blooms of photosynthetic algae also cover the snow-strewn ice sheet every summer1. Some, such as Chlamydomonas nivalis, spread first as greenish blooms as they begin to photosynthesize, and then turn a reddish colour as they produce carotenoid pigments to protect themselves from the sun’s ultraviolet rays.

“They’re extremely lazy algae — they sleep for nine months and then wake up and have a party,” says team member Liane Benning, a biogeochemist at the University of Leeds, UK, and the GeoForschungsZentrum research centre in Potsdam, Germany.

The algae creates vast, colourful fields of what is popularly known as 'watermelon snow'. Last month in Nature Communications, Benning and her team reported sampling watermelon snow at glaciers across the Arctic2. They found 6 types of algae living at 40 red-snow sites in Norway, Sweden, Greenland and Iceland.

By comparing the optical properties of red snow to clean snow, they estimated that algal blooms could reduce reflectivity by 13% over the melting season. “Wherever we look, the impact is quite dramatic,” Benning says.

After the snow cover melts for the season, other species of alga take over. These ice-adapted algae are typically brownish-grey, less visibly dramatic than the red and green blooms but just as important for darkening the ice sheet. Only in the past few years have scientists begun to realize that some of the dark particles on the ice sheet are in fact these ice algae and not soot, Benning says.


A rotten discovery

Tranter says he got the idea for Black and Bloom about four years ago, when he was working on the margins of the Greenland ice sheet and forgot his glacier goggles. He put his shaded cycling glasses on instead, and suddenly colour popped out at him. “Everywhere the ice surface was melting I could see a mauve colour,” he says. “I said guys, there’s tons of algae growing in this rotten ice.”

Black and Bloom is the first effort to systematically explore algae’s role in darkening ice sheets3. This initial field season focuses on southwest Greenland, at a 'dark snow' site where collaborators Jason Box and Marek Stibal of the Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland have been quantifying the soot and mineral dust that settles onto Greenland. Now the microbiologists have arrived with equipment to sample the various algal and bacterial species that pockmark the ice.

The heart of Black and Bloom is a study region half a kilometre long on each side. Here, the researchers will collect samples of black carbon and microoganisms while measuring incoming sunlight and reflectivity. They will also venture out on transects, both on foot and using unmanned aerial vehicles, to get a broader perspective on the algal blooms.

With longer melting seasons over the past few years, the algae have more time to bloom and darken the sheet
, Tranter says. Next year, the team plans to go out earlier in the season, to be there in May when the snow begins to melt and the algae wake from their winter nap.

Nature doi:10.1038/nature.2016.20265

http://www.nature.com/news/algae-are-melting-away-the-greenland-ice-sheet-1.20265
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. Pr. 13:12

 

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